[Siq]

I am having a terrible time against the pvz immortal sentry. Sometimes I crush it, sometimes it owns me like no tomorrow, but I can't really figure out what goes wrong, I feel like I'm doing the same thing.

And could anyone help by telling me more about this build? I usually go for a ling-roach approach with emphasis on many lings after droning up heavily when I see it coming.

Sometimes it comes kinda late (are these people just bad?) and sometimes a lot earlier, like in the game attached.
Example replay: http://drop.sc/242136
This guy is of course also blocking messages to him so I couldn't ask for practice against him either. I hate that feature.

I just have no idea what to do.

Problem I think in this game:
Droned a little bit too hard. Missed my potential infestation pit timing by ~25 sec.
Waaaay oversaturated on 3rd, didn't realize I had that many drones.

Question, when should I start making units when I have identified the build? Do I have time for infestors? This hit right before 12 mins.

This is master/grandmaster level for SEA.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Someone M/GM Zerg or Protoss level do it please ?

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Siq

I am having a terrible time against the pvz immortal sentry. Sometimes I crush it, sometimes it owns me like no tomorrow, but I can't really figure out what goes wrong, I feel like I'm doing the same thing.

First of all I think your third hatch was really late because you tried to do some damage with your lings instead of taking out the pylon first. You also waited until your natural finished before starting your queen. If you start your queen from ur main you can drop a tumour and start spreading creep and still be able to inject as soon as your natural finishes.

you're right you have sooooooo many drones at your third (and in total) and you keep making drones. You go up to 80 drones when you have a good idea a sentry immortal all in is going to be coming.

remember that it's perfectly fine to sacrifice your third and fall back to ur natural with a consolidated army instead of just throwing small groups of units away constantly. A tonne of spines at your natural or even third if you built them early enough would have been good.

You get infestation pit and the energy for them but you never made any infestors if you make just 2 or 3 while you are saccing your third you can then get some nice fungals on all their sentries and then come in with your entire army


TLDR: overdronned, poor saturation. didn't have many units when the attack came. Threw away ur army in small chunks at a time. Tried to defend third when there was no chance of saving it.

To answer your question. you should start making units once you have optimal three base saturation so like 60-70 drones.
And if you buy enough time you will be able to get infestors out but I think it would be better to just not get them or their upgrade and use your resources on other things (that reminds me you are also floating a lot of resources maybe another/earlier macro hatch?)

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Nice !

[AxS.Xenovia]

Hi there. this is a replay of which i won but with a bit of bitterness that i could have done better in. but i dont know what. so a few pointers

http://drop.sc/242146

and this is one which i lost and i have no idea what i did wrong minus the not spotting pylon.
http://drop.sc/242149

much appriciated

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by CBK Himari

Hi there. this is a replay of which i won but with a bit of bitterness that i could have done better in. but i dont know what. so a few pointers

http://drop.sc/242146

and this is one which i lost and i have no idea what i did wrong minus the not spotting pylon.
http://drop.sc/242149

much appriciated

Post only defeats please and one replay at a time. Thanks.

Replay Analysis
http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/329883134

Conclusion
You did well but forgot to patrol with one marine a key part of your base. very classic Allin with blink and obs and you're dead. Only way to prevent that is to make sure to prevent that pylon along your base and have a army there to kill the obs ASAP. Be sure to let 2 bunkers at your Nat too with some SCV preparing to repair because he's going to switch from your main to your Nat in he's attack and your army won't be quick enough to defend both places.

That's the only way. The reste was OK.

[Oshiego]

Alright that answered all my doubts. Thanks once again.

[bald_eagle]

(slight copy pasta from my thread) so I am coming to you today to discuss a somewhat imba strategy (well technically not because mirror match up) but basically it is a build that zergs do that I just can't seem to handle, essentially it is 12 extractor, 14/15 pool, 2 more drones, queen overlord.

So from this point the zerg player just continues to mass lings and banelings I only have about a 4 drone advantage, I hold it off, my drone count stays above him, I hold the lings and banelings, equal amount of resources lost, but after he is done, I start droning up again, getting tech etc. but he then ends up with about 20 drones ahead of me. Still ends up winning

I try my very best to play a safe macro game with only about a 4 drone advantage every game. YET! I still end up losing, I'm guessing I lost because I have alot of wasted tech and structures, but I found no other way to choke off the ******* banelings and lings. I would try 11 pool, however it is not a very economical choice at all. Honestly, I'm sick of losing to this strat and trying countless ways to counter it. Roaches, Fast lair, hatch with a spine in both main and nat, defensive banelings, choke points with evo chambers and spines. Nothing.... Any suggestions would be great help.

Here is link to 3 replays of the same build being used against me

http://www.mediafire.com/#p4rn7hir69t03

[ACX]

I will really appreciate any constructive criticism. I need a lot of help with my PVP, it's absolutely atrocious.

Replays:

Loss to mass zealots: http://drop.sc/243152

4 Gate warp prism fail: http://drop.sc/243153

If someone could tell me an outright counter to the mass zealots, that would be great and where I went wrong with the 4 gate warp prism.

Also, i'm curious how on earth is PvP meant to be played in general? Should I just keep it simple and play like 1 gate robo or something and macro up?

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

3 pylon wall with a mothership counters pure zealot trololol

[Nemo]

Someone do the Analysis for Siq please. or or iGM or .

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Tiger

Loss to mass zealots: http://drop.sc/243152

well you are trying to defend 3 gates worth of zealots with only 1 gate. so no matter how good your micro you will lose. A hard counter to zealots is zealots. stalkers are okish too but only if you micro really well
as soon as you scouted it you should have dropped 2 more gates (3 total) and dumped all your chronoboosts on your gateway to get your units out faster.

Your pylon wall didn't really make sense. obviously they just gonna kill your zealot then walk in. maybe if you full walled off and then went for ranged units like sentries and stalkers it would have been fine. coz with the pylons and forcefields you will buy enough time to get a critical mass of units.

Originally Posted by Tiger

4 Gate warp prism fail: http://drop.sc/243153

it was bad to move down the ramp because of the possibility of getting forcefielded. but wat was even worse was that you just move commanded the 4 zealots that got stuck at the bottom.

needed to warp in a stalker at home so you don't lose as many probes killing that stalker, and make sure that you put the workers back to mining. Also replenish your mining force. Take workers off gas since you aren't using it so you still have 16 mining minerals. Your attack then fails because not enough money.

You are pretty much dead at this point so not gonna bother watching the rest.



IMO this is what you should have done:
firstly if you were looking you would have seen the stalker enter your base at like 7:07 so could have made a stalker in your base to deal with that.
Then you had seen that he had expanded so theres a good chance that he will have his army down the ramp at his natural. So you could have warped in a sentry with your first warp in. Then just camped at the top of his ramp killing those 4 pylons, the cyber core the gateway etc. until he tries to attack you. Then you just forcefielded the ramp and sandwich with zealots.

Even after your zealots got trapped. You could have warped in sentries with ur next warp in and kill all his stuff while you trapped him outside his own base with forcefields.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Thanks Aequitas for the analysis
	ACX:	Thanks aeq! :)

[Dexterique]

Hello everyone, I'm a Diamond Protoss player and I'm here to seek guidance from fellow humans of this planet we all call, Earth. At 1700HR +8GMT my Protoss fleet encountered 2 Zerg players that decided to Hatch 1st at my natural expo on Daybreak (Both games are played on Daybreak) while laddering.

Aiur has never bestow me with the knowledge to defend my base when faced with such trickery by the Zergs.

Below are the 2 replays are the build that Zerg did.

http://drop.sc/243436

http://drop.sc/243438

Any critism, help and guidance is much appreciated.

-Dex

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Dexterique

Hello everyone, I'm a Diamond Protoss player and I'm here to seek guidance from fellow humans of this planet we all call, Earth. At 1700HR +8GMT my Protoss fleet encountered 2 Zerg players that decided to Hatch 1st at my natural expo on Daybreak (Both games are played on Daybreak) while laddering.

Aiur has never bestow me with the knowledge to defend my base when faced with such trickery by the Zergs.

Below are the 2 replays are the build that Zerg did.

http://drop.sc/243436

http://drop.sc/243438

Any critism, help and guidance is much appreciated.

-Dex

don't have time to watch the replay, but the way to beat it is to not let it happen in the first place. If you are scouting after pylon for a FFE, you should see his drone moving across the map. As soon as you see this, go forge first and leave the probe there. When he tries to put the hatch down, you have to get a second probe, block the hatchery, and chase the drone away.

If he does manage to get the hatch down, build 2 cannons near it and continue with your FFE. Things are going to be delayed for you, but things are also going to be delayed for him, so it evens out in the end.

Sometimes you can even cannon rush his natural since he won't have a spawning pool.

Maybe someone who actually watches the replay might want to add on to this


aiur fighting

Quick Comments

Dexterique:

Thanks! I'll watch out for that early scouting drone next time and remember to put a probe down at the nat for standby.

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Dexterique

http://drop.sc/243438

pulling half your mineral line is definitely not the right thing to do.
neither is your weird out of range cannon rush.
If a zerg proxy hatches ur natural and sends another drone, make sure you follow it and see what's up.

so as delete said it's good to stop it but if he does get it down just drop your forge and gateway down too. don't bother attacking the hatchery with workers, they can just cancel and you will be so far behind.
just continue on as if you are opening one base: get your gas get your core you will actually get a really fast warpgate. so you should try and do a nice warpgate timing attack.

instead of trying to cannon rush him you should have continued scouting with your probe, seen that there was no expansion so make sure that he isn't making a hatch in your main. and a couple more cannons at the front to hold off the roaches if he goes for your front.

Quick Comments

Dexterique:

Thanks! Will not over-react next time

[Theend]

Originally Posted by Dexterique

Hello everyone, I'm a Diamond Protoss player and I'm here to seek guidance from fellow humans of this planet we all call, Earth. At 1700HR +8GMT my Protoss fleet encountered 2 Zerg players that decided to Hatch 1st at my natural expo on Daybreak (Both games are played on Daybreak) while laddering.

Aiur has never bestow me with the knowledge to defend my base when faced with such trickery by the Zergs.

Below are the 2 replays are the build that Zerg did.

http://drop.sc/243436

http://drop.sc/243438

Any critism, help and guidance is much appreciated.

-Dex

Originally Posted by xGKingdelete

don't have time to watch the replay, but the way to beat it is to not let it happen in the first place. If you are scouting after pylon for a FFE, you should see his drone moving across the map. As soon as you see this, go forge first and leave the probe there. When he tries to put the hatch down, you have to get a second probe, block the hatchery, and chase the drone away.

If he does manage to get the hatch down, build 2 cannons near it and continue with your FFE. Things are going to be delayed for you, but things are also going to be delayed for him, so it evens out in the end.

Sometimes you can even cannon rush his natural since he won't have a spawning pool.

Maybe someone who actually watches the replay might want to add on to this

This basically sum up most of the part.
From what i have seen from the replay.

For game 1: dex was out macroed (by far a lot) and bad micro (the voids could have won the game)

For game 2: Not being alert to the drone in his base and the badly placed cannon rush caused him the game

Quick Comments

Dexterique:

Thanks! The hatch 1st really threw me off

[jayaiwhy]

A ZvZ, I won but was wondering what I could improve on if anyone could tell me

http://drop.sc/243865

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	if you won, you played perfectly fine.
	Snx.Mufasa:	There are things you can look at to improve even if you win : )

[Nemo]

I think we left some replay to analyse behind. Guys I'm sorry we did. It's now too old to be usefull for analyse but post fresh replays, I promise all we be analysed by sunday evening !

[IcedTea]

Hey guys.

League: Gold
Opponent's League: Plat
Matchup: Zerg vs Terran

I need a bit of feedback on this replay of mine.
Im not quite sure what I did wrong here, so would just love a bit of input.

Link: http://drop.sc/248220

Thanks for everything.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by IcedTea

Hey guys.

League: Gold
Opponent's League: Plat
Matchup: Zerg vs Terran

I need a bit of feedback on this replay of mine.
Im not quite sure what I did wrong here, so would just love a bit of input.

Link: http://drop.sc/248220

Thanks for everything.

Replay Analysis
http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/331480976#

Conclusion

• Destroy the rocks to defend your third. If he had harass you more with drops you would have suffered a lot defending 2nd and 3rd
• Manage better your mineral lines to put drones on the new bases
• Never attack a sieges tank line like that especially in those narrow palces. The best composition you have to attack turtling terrans is Brood Lords / Infestors / Corruptors and target Vicking and Thors only.
• Lack of scouting in the middle game. You would have seen those factory and have a better composition than those Ultralisks. Composition is determined by opponent strategy.
• Better control Drop routes with overlords. You had mutas to protect them from rogue Vickings

Quick Comments

	IcedTea:	Thank you for the help. :D
	xGKingdelete:	hero

[mGGPrometheus]

League: Masters
Opponent's League: Masters
Matchup: Terran vs Zerg

Link:
http://drop.sc/253483

Any critique would be appreciated!

I felt like I had worked my way into a pretty big advantage this game, but once the broodlords came round I felt like there was nothing I could do against them.

[AceWing]

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1976

Hey there I'm kinda confused about this game.

1) So when I scouted that he is going 1 base with a couple of gates, I understood that he is trying to go 1 base all in.

2) Immediately threw down more barracks for defence. + Bunkers.

3) Managed to defend, but what should I do next? I thought of expanding, but then again I chose to go end him immediately. Failed a couple of times, but since he is going his expand already, I must end him asap.

My question is, after you managed to defend 1 base with 1 base, do you build a second base and let him expand as well? (proceed to macro game), or try to end him since its 1 base to 1 base.

I admit my skills here are rather lousy because I don't know much about build orders and how to respond, but this is my very first win against a gold as well

I'm just a bronze that match, so don't expect much

[Malice]

Originally Posted by AtlasWing

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1976

Hey there I'm kinda confused about this game.

1) So when I scouted that he is going 1 base with a couple of gates, I understood that he is trying to go 1 base all in.

2) Immediately threw down more barracks for defence. + Bunkers.

3) Managed to defend, but what should I do next? I thought of expanding, but then again I chose to go end him immediately. Failed a couple of times, but since he is going his expand already, I must end him asap.

My question is, after you managed to defend 1 base with 1 base, do you build a second base and let him expand as well? (proceed to macro game), or try to end him since its 1 base to 1 base.

I admit my skills here are rather lousy because I don't know much about build orders and how to respond, but this is my very first win against a gold as well

I'm just a bronze that match, so don't expect much

It's much better to analyse games that you've lost rather than of you winning, but you still made a large amount of mistakes, especially decision wise, that a much better player would crush you if you tried to do stuff like you did in this game.

I'll start off by saying there's no point in worker splitting in bronze. At the start of the game, just ctrl f1, then click onto a mineral patch. Since you don't have the mechanics that better players have, 90% of the time you're being inefficient when worker splitting, as we can see in this game, this is true.
So anyway, we get to the point where you put 3 raxes down, and put a bunker down at your natural. But what are you protecting? Unless there's an expansion there, there is literally no reason why you should be defending that area, it's unsafe, and much easier to defend the top of your ramp. Since youre terran, you can just make a command centre in your main, and float it to your natural whenever you feel safe, or just expand directly to your natural.

When someone allins you and you hold it, you immediately take a base. What you did was just go balls to the wall aggression, and this will work, but not always. Since you're a base behind at this point, and you're being the aggressor, your main aim is to even the score, and put them on one base. Many times, you would get up the natural ramp, see the expansion, and be like screw it, and just run up the ramp to the main, without killing that base. Think about what happens if you don't kill that base, you walk up that ramp and your army just gets completely owned and held off. You're put in a situation where you're behind on units and economy. It's much better to just take a base, and be the aggressor off a much better economy, this way, while you're being aggressive, you can take bases, or just go for an allin hit later where you'd have better tech and more units.

What you need to do is:
Get a solid economic expand build, and keep working at that, and holding allins with economic builds.

Work on fundamentals, such as making workers, making units, getting upgrades, expanding

What you need to stop doing:
Worker splitting for one. I didn't bother with it until I was about diamond, and even then, sometimes it was inefficient. I still screw it up sometimes to this day.
Doing builds that are high on units in the early game, and low on economy. - Allining all the time leads you to only understand half the game. You're always playing this low economy game with the other player, where one is the aggressor, and the other the defender, and this keeps swapping depending on who wants to "allin" again and again. I can guarantee that if you stick to economic builds and being defensive, your skills will improve a hell of a lot more efficiently.

Quick Comments

AceWing:

thank you sir I guess I will work on mechanics and macro :)