[Zanderax]

I just got my first semester report back and while I got some less than impressive results (Physics 13/13 ) my effort grades were outstanding. In all subjects except one I received an A for effort and it got me thinking about the way I play Starcraft.

Does it really matter if I am Bronze or Grandmasters if I am true to my convictions and I put the effort in to improve? If I put the same effort in as a high level player shouldn't I feel the same sense of commitment an accomplishment that they feel?

Who are we to judge other players based on skill? I believe that looking past the league to see the person and their commitment will help us build a better community and help us become better friends and team mates.

If we stop worrying about what league a person is in, why not read each post and question and guide and remind yourself that a Bronzie that grows our community by posting is a lot better than a GM lurker then our community will flourish.

Thanks to the people that are doing this all ready.

[ToRSpartaz]

Awesome thoughts Dave mate very very true about commitment and the level of commitment from any leagues or races.

Very nice results from the physics () and all your other subjects man awesome stuff!

Quick Comments

Theend:

"Professor" Dave of the future ;)

[SLCN.Kez]

There is definitely a correlation between effort and skill 95% of the time. Tbh you're rarely going to think "hey look at this bronze player, I'm sure he put in a tonne of effort to get to that stage!" But you look at a gm with a few hundred games played per season and you will probably assume he put in a decent amount of effort.

Yes there are "gifted" players who had to put in less effort, but I'm sure at some stage they did work their but of, but probably not for as long.

I agree with you tho, for many topics on this forum what league you're in isn't THAT important, but for a decent amount of topics your opinion will mean more if you are in a high league or compete and do well in tournaments, it's just the way it is, and it's cognitive dissonance to think otherwise. If you were in a lecture would you listen to someone who has a PhD in Physics over the guy who organises the classes? Probably. Would you listen to someone whos in GM and won tournaments over a silver league player? of course.

*edit*
As an after thought, I think people place to many expectations on themselves and don't have a clear understanding of what it takes to get good. If you play a few games here and there and you're in bronze or silver, you are not going to be getting masters soon, AND THAT'S FINE.Don't go comparing yourself to a masters league player who plays hundreds of games a season. There's nothing wrong with being in silver if you understand you aren't good at the game and you're happy with the relatively low effort you put into it to get there. Nobody can tell you how good or bad you should be at this game if you yourself are happy with how you are progressing. Just have realistic expectations given how much work you are actually doing to improve at the game, IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE. If you wanna play for fun then that's fine, just don't expect to be seeing yourself in masters at the same time. This is a slightly of topic rant but I think a lot of people find themselves in this situation.

[Zanderax]

Thank Tek Kez! Great response, but I was more talking about effort on the forums than in game. Low league people that post a lot of good content are sometimes shoved aside for a higher level player that makes a post every few weeks.

Quick Comments

Theend:

Not true

[SLCN.Kez]

oh no shit LOL /facepalm

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by Zanderax

Low league people that post a lot of good content are sometimes shoved aside for a higher level player that makes a post every few weeks.

Might be bashed for this but, probably because they are playing the game, rather than procrastinating from the ladder?

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Kez:	ahaha slap!
	Theend:	+1 and i believe being more active at place such as sc2sea .com helps too ;p

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by Zanderax

Low league people that post a lot of good content are sometimes shoved aside for a higher level player that makes a post every few weeks.

most good players post here. also low level player with good content in what way?

[Zepph]

Yeah for the most part low level players give good input because sc2sea isn't full of idiots( see: battlenet forums). I don't think any low levels are "shoved aside" without reason. The only time I ever feel that would happen would be when a low layer is trying to assert an opinion over game strategy to be true when in discussion with high level players, simply because often it can be a misinformed opinion.

[xGKingdelete]

Everyone who contributes to a community should be valued.

"Low league people that post a lot of good content are sometimes shoved aside for a higher level player that makes a post every few weeks. "
About this, people should be judging a post by its content, not who writes it. A GM's (not troll) post in a strategy thread is naturally going to be more reliable. How often he posts compared to someone else is irrelevant.
Of course that doesn't mean that a lower league player's input shouldn't be valued.


slightly off-topic, but sometimes people ask "what's it like being gm?" and I tell them that it's just the same as anything. There are people better than you, there are people worse than you, and you verse them both. You get frustrated after losses and happy with improvement. It's the same game essentially, except with more involvement in tournaments.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

So good!!!!!

[Peleus]

It depends on the topic at hand.

If its relating to Zerg stratergy, I'm probably going to have more insight than a silver player, but then pig, mafia, a multitude of others are going to have more valuable insight than me.

If its on a random topic then my input is only as equal to any other member, be it the best player here or the lowest bronze, everyone is equal and league is irrelevant.

If its on something like artistic stuff or graphics design then someone like UHF has much more valuable input than me.

About the only think you may find is that typically leagues are an indication of time put into the game. There is a correlation between the amount of time in game and typically how much time people put into the community / scene in general. Hence many times the GM players may be a little more respected, not because of their skill, but purely because of how much they are around / involved.

[Theend]

Conclusion for thread.

1) Well mannered people who hang around the community often will be more respected.
2) Nobody or at least most people will not look down on player of any league, it is one-self perception that made it appear so.
3) We care to a certain extend for each other around here and we you.
4) If you really need help in game, you can get a sc2sea coach (Paid) or ask people from our clan (Free) to help you out.
5) I need Ice-cream

The end

[Fenner]

The only thing you can do is put in the effort and hope that the results follow. Most of the time, they do.

[x5_Bard]

The issue is that even though BSG level players might post alot of useful stuff they also post their fair share of garbage. For instance on the SASL facebook group there are several people who feel that 2 hatch before pool is a solid opener in PvZ. Now this might be a good strategy for a BSG level, but there is no way in hell you could use it as your staple build at a higher level. After being told this the player then decided to show us a link of all the "star" players who use it and linked a build order from TL titled "2hatch before pool ZvP". It was from Broodwar.

This is why anything strategy related from a lower league player is taken with a grain of salt. As peleus said no one is going to be elitist to a bronze level player for their artistic skill or on another unrelated sc2 topic. Its when a bronze player makes a guide/argues/gives advice aimed at GM level players that the "bronze bashing" comes out. You generally only see this on TL though and its usually from platinum/diamond players, not bronze lol

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

******* mushi hahaha