[PapaBigBelly]

BIO has been really used against Toss for a great reason, however what about mech vs toss?

SO what do you guys think of seige tanks and blue helions vs toss?

I tried it out against a diamond toss ( im only plat terran in NA)

I opened with blue flame helions, roasted a good trade of probes then transitioned into siege tanks with siege mode to secure my nat.

Following that, i turtled and took the GOLD. Protoss tried to bust but was unsucessful.
then the tried to go through the back way but then he got torn apart.

I did get a few marines for drops and for the dps but it was mostly tanks.

I just then pushed forward after his attack and took the game
i tried to upload the replay but it says the files invalid :P
but its not my game thats important, its the general idea of using tanks vs toss

What do you think?

[Next_rim]

Helions in the beginning are hella annoying, very hard to scout and counter if you don't expect it.

In general, mech ball is much easier than bio ball due to mobility. Plenty of ways to break it. chargelots+Immortals+HT shit on mech, just gotta feedback the ghosts in time. Bio is very annoying with drops and stupid "stim 9 marauders and 3-shot ur nexus". At least I gots my HT's to wreck mineral lines

[Stallion]

personally i love a terran who gos mech cos its up to the toss to respond correctly and be the aggressor expanding wise meaning its on me . i think tanks should be mixed into the terran baller the latter in the game it is with the terran bio ball into thor banshee type comps altho id suggest trying to keep there energy low or get strike cannons and blast some rocks b4 attacking. thats my general thoughts on mech vs toss :P

[Makra]

Wait, so you're saying you had practically nothing but tanks and hellions?

That toss must have been pretty bad :/ Make one void ray, collect win.

[Next_rim]

> That toss must have been pretty bad :/ Make one void ray, collect win.

one thor would've done the job.

Can you post a replay to see your mech? I wonder what's the blue hellion timing vs toss.

[Makra]

Ermm, 1 massive thor, with it's bonus damage to light units, vs an armoured void ray that does bonus to massive?

Anyway that was a joke btw. Point is the toss couldve countered with stargate tech.

[Aean(:]

I think i read somewhere on TL that its too risky to play mech at the start, since its so weak in small numbers. Any timing push can kill you easymode. Its a good transition mid/late game though with 3+ bases

[ROOT`iaguz]

Tanks suck, generally speaking, against toss. They do shit damage, are very immobile, cost a bunch of gas and they splash your own dudes when they shoot chargelots.

BUT

They have some application in the early/mid stages for certain attacks, but these attacks are designed to either outright kill your opponent or get a huge lead so you can transition into bio. The best terran tank-user in tvp is IM MVP, especially his TDA game against that protoss recently for GSL, or the Thorzain vs Naniwa games. Thorzain did not have long term plans with his tank play and naniwa basically shows why that is.

The reason why tanks work like this is two fold. First, Protoss don't have the chargelot/extended thermal lance colosi out yet to destroy you for building tanks. Second, a lot of protoss do 1-3 gate expansion plays and tanks are quite strong against gateway units at this stage so a timing attack with tank/marine/starport can be quite effective because of that.

That's it. I know there are a lot of terrans who continue to use tanks in the mid/late stages and whilst they do occasionally win games I seriously think most of the time it's because they already 'won' the game and now they've gotten round to beating the protoss, FINALLY.

But in short, tanks are not a very good unit in tvp.

[Next_rim]

Ermm, 1 massive thor, with it's bonus damage to light units, vs an armoured void ray that does bonus to massive?

It's not as simple as you think. Without micro, It takes a 1:1 thor full 27 seconds (9 volleys) to kill a 0:0 voidray, while voidray needs 26,33 seconds to kill a 1:1 thor in pure damage. Considering the range, thor gets 1 free volley of (6+1)x4=28 damage, and will win. 2 thors kill 3 voidrays, but lose to 4.

However, you can micro the voidray to get some shield regen in, and win. On the other hand, you can repair the thor. Your call

[Daboo]

Tank-hellion-thor doesnt actually work well...I had a game where the terrans tanks basically killed off his thors because of splash while trying to get to my chargelots. Maybe if he had more hellions and few less tanks

One composition that I have trouble with is the thor/hellion/raven and marines mix. It was a fun game because I was actually facing something different but I ultimately lost cause I went immortal chargelot stalker, and chargelots were taken out by blue flame hellions, the stalkers didnt actually fire for quite some time because of pdd and the thors one shotted my immortals with strike canons.
I guess you cant really engage that army till you have more voids and immortals..and possibly high templars.

But yeah, opening mech is..very very fragile, your better off transitioning into it.