[ToRRedemption]

Hi, im in gold and I am finding it very hard to play macro games against protoss, they say i have to keep the pressure on, and i do with drop play and constant attack, but i find the longer the game drags out the stronger the protoss army gets, even with all the tech such as vikings to counter collosus and ghosts for emp. This may be bacuase my micro isnt too good but, can you guys help suggest some ways i can combat this?

[TACeeSerps]

Just upload some replays of the situations you are having trouble with so we can help out.

[TABjornbrandr]

Whilst you play Terran and I've been playing Terran myself lately, I come from mostly a Zerg background.
The main thing with a Protoss deathball is that it reaches its maximum strength when at 200/200. The easiest way to defeat the deathball is to constantly trade with it so that they can never just waltz out with their maxed ball and roflpwn you.
As a zerg player it means constantly trading roaches and using supply better and teching to broods.
With Terran, drops are a great way to hurt their economy but if you can use the mobility of a bio army to determine the battle location you can trade fairly efficiently.

tl;dr - Trade constantly in favourable locations and drop to hurt their economy. Don't let a Protoss just chill until max, you will get massacred.

Anyone with better input, feel free to correct me.

Edit: Replays are great as well, try this thread for full feedback or upload them in this thread.

[breadfan]

You don't want to be trading with protoss in the late game. In the early game it's OK, because it will delay their tech so much, but late game you are in trouble if you do that

I think all you can really do is try to manipulate position by still continuing to harass, hit 2 bases at once and force their army to split up or sacrifice a base. I

[xxGunslingerxx]

Have you tried playing mech v toss? I play toss myself so I can't give super specifics but it can be very very powerful v toss, by virtue of dps alone opening with banshees then going into tank thor etc there's a good day9 daily on going mech PvT the link's http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-39...#disqus_thread and it's daily #396 if you would rather youtube it. But yeah, it can be very frustrating and a solid anti deathball move (at least against me lol)

[Celldweller]

Originally Posted by xxGunslingerxx

Have you tried playing mech v toss? I play toss myself so I can't give super specifics but it can be very very powerful v toss, by virtue of dps alone opening with banshees then going into tank thor etc there's a good day9 daily on going mech PvT the link's http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-39...#disqus_thread and it's daily #396 if you would rather youtube it. But yeah, it can be very frustrating and a solid anti deathball move (at least against me lol)

if you can pull that off, your opponent is either really bad or you are really good at mech play.

Try 1/1/1 or 2 rax openings, if you do choose to 1 rax fe a push a 10 mins with 2 medivacs +1's and stim/combat with some nice positioning can destroy a protoss who doesnt control correctly.

At the late game, try sniping obs's out and getting EMP's off, Make sure you have enough prod buildings because by 200/200 you'll be floating and you need to drop that money real quick and replenish as fast as the protoss. dropping on his 3rd and main is really important, and stimmed maruaders can snipe a nexus really quickly.

anyway glhf, just kepe practicing

[ToRDolo]

Mech doesn't work against protoss at higher levels I don't think? I thought chargelot/archon/HT (feedback v thor/banshee/bc) meant that mech wasn't as viable against protoss as it is in zvt or tvt. I guess if you catch the protoss by surprise with the composition you'll be able to do damage.

No one can really give specific advice till you post a couple of replays, but as a small bit of very generic advice I'd suggest going over your replays. Focus on your resource levels throughout the game. If your minerals/gas are going over 500 it means you need to focus/work on your macro. Make sure you're producing workers continually, producing from rax etc constantly and throwing down more production facilities when your minerals/gas get over 500. A lot of the time you'll find you can end the game before the protoss can reach that super scary endgame composition just because when you push you'll have more/too much stuff due to superior macro. As for specifically dealing with the deathball, I'll leave that advice to people who know what they're talking about because I don't want to give incorrect advice!

[Goldie]

the hole point of tvp is to not let the p macro up.

[Next_rim]

Don't even worry about colossi that much, although they are powerful, they are fragile, and their dps can be controlled.

Strom is key though. Storm is the most cost efficient and highest dps thing in protoss pvt arsenal. If you can minimize its effect, you basically win. You need to dodge it, snipe HT, emp them, focus fire them, do everything it takes. And you need a good economy to back it up, because 3x storms for 300 gas can kill your entire 200/200.

[sRDreaM]

I go for a 1-1-1 build with 4 hellions drop to kill some probes in the early game into a marine tank push to try take out the expansion. Once a Protoss has gotten a third I drop at the third and drop at the main and try to have my army setup near his natural of course this requires multitasking. Try not to let the colossus number go to high also when you drop try make them chase you around to bring some time to move in your army etc and like Goldie mention don't let the protoss macro up if you can snipe plyons unpowering buildings killing forges or any tech would be great with your drops

[Stallion]

I wish i could get a deathball still T_T. The main thing to do is look for times you can be aggressive and cost effectivly trade. generally these are counter attack or when a protoss is taking a base.

[FaDeKerrigan]

I'll just Theory craft if it helps. I'm having issues engaging the apparent 'Deathball' as of yet as Tosses are getting very capable at having a combination of highly upgraded Collosus, Templars, Archons, few stalkers and sentries and tons of zealots in the late game scenario.

Army Composition.

Note: In TvP, just like in ZvT, the Terran is usually the reactive race when it reaches the late game stage. (Minimum 4-5 bases each)

A typical composition would be

1) 30-40 Zealots
2) 3-4 Collosus
3) Handful of archons
4) 3-5 HTs

1) In the most ideal situation, a Terran should mass up his army composition accordingly. If the toss goes more Zealot Archon heavy, Marines should outnumber Marauders in approximately 3:1 ratio. This is because your Marines deal significantly higher DPS.

2) Vikings to Collosus ratio ideally is 3:1. Don't forget your Viking upgrades because the Toss is likely to have upgrades on par or even faster than you due to Chronoboost

3&4) Having Ghosts is an absolutely must. Prioritise the energy upgrade before going cloak(arguable). Likewise, time your ghost production such that it is in sync with the upgrade, therefore allowing your ghost to be able to immediately have enough energy to EMP. Same analogy as applied to Infestors. As for quantity, it would be ideal to have at least 2-3 more ghosts as compared to the total number of HTs the Toss has. This allows you to have a greater accumulated energy pool to snipe/EMP templars/EMP Zealot balls.

Positioning

Again, i will stress that this is the most ideal situation.

In most situations, it would be most ideal to engage in a wide open area unless your opponents lack AOE(Archons, HT Storm and Collo). This aids in maximising the DPS of your ranged army(Concave).
Arrange your bioball in such a way that it is parallel (in a line) of the Toss's army. You would want to avoid clumping to mitigate Storm Damage. Always place your marauders in front of your Marines. This is because 1) Marauders are tankier and allows your Marines a longer duration to dish out DPS.
2) Marauders have greater range than Marines. You would want them right at the front in order to slow(concussive shells) oncoming Zealots when Charge is on cooldown.

Pre-Clash

Before the clash ensues, scan to see if there's an observer. If there is, attempt to take it out with your long range vikings. After doing so, spare another scan, preferably towards the rear of the Toss army(path of incoming reinforcements) to ensure there's no incoming observer. Cloak your ghosts and attempt to take out the HTs. Beware of any Photon Cannons nearby. Usually, if the HTs are in a clump, EMP them. If they are spread out, Snipe. Ideally, you would want to Snipe the Templars in order to prevent the Toss from merging them into Archons. 2 Snipes per Templar. Shift queuing your Snipes will do you good. In the event that you do take out the HTs, blanket EMP the army , priority being Sentries then Zealots.

The Engagement and Positioning.

After dealing with the HTs, engage accordingly as stipulated above, preferably with cliffs so that your Vikings are out of range of Stalker fire. It would be advisable to target fire those Colossus down ASAP, by shift queuing the Colossus. This may lead to overkill but bear in mind that a competent Toss will also focus fire your Vikings with their Stalkers and attempt to retreat their Colossus.

I cannot stress how important it is to micro your bio ball. Attempt to dodge impending storms assuming that there is leftover/reinforcing HTs. At times, the Toss might unintentionally Storm his own Zealot ball. Continually kite and stutter step away from the Colossus while still in range of the Zealot ball. Additionally you might want to hot pick up your army which are sandwiched between force fields. Only do this if your opponents Stalker count is low/out of range. Tons of examples from GSL matches. Notable players include MKP and Puma.

Last but not least, have a group of preferably Marauders that are ready to flank any reinforcing HTs/Colossus. Build Planetary Fortresses nearer to your half of your map to buy you time to reinforce/remax after the clash assuming supplies aren't so drastically different



That is all the input I have for now. I cannot stress how difficult/APM-intensive this is but i urge every Terran ally out there to not give up till the day Blizzard responds to our cries of agony. If EG.Puma can do it, so can we right?

Quick Comments

	Lemon:
	12sea21:	Because this post is sexy.
	pesichew:	Amazing post
	AxS.Sorathez:
	RicocheT:	Yupyup
	ToRRedemption:

[AxS.Sorathez]

Doing drops and so on is a great way to slow down the push as various people have said earlier, however you need to be careful with doing that, because if you do more than one drop at a time AFTER your protoss opponent has got a healthy (2-4) colossus number, you risk your opponent just going all in and killing you due to your army being split up (this is my preferred way to deal with this kind of thing, while I warp in a few units at home to clean up, or even just slow the base race). This usually works because the army that wins a battle decisively, is usually better at base racing than a couple of drops (and if you float away your buildings, he can just come home, kill your drops, and tech up to air).

I recommend doing drops in the midgame, and in the late game just jostling for favourable positions (EMPing sentries doesn't hurt either).

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by FaDeKerrigan

A typical composition would be

1) 30-40 Zealots
2) 3-4 Collosus
3) Handful of archons
4) 3-5 HTs

Sexy post.
Only thing I'll say is that he's in gold. Generally you wont find optimum unit compositions (i.e might have more collo etc.)

Best thing I can say if theres heavy collo, get +1/2/3 air attack for vikings, and before engaging try to pick off collo if possible (due to Viking's sexy range).

All the best!

[ToRDarKnoob]

Hey eddie emp is what u need

[ToRRedemption]

Thanks for the posts, especially you FaDeKerrigan that was an awesome post. Ill start to find and collect my tvp games for further advice

Kind Regards Redemption

[Knowledge]

Hello,
in late game, fly in with vikings, scan, kill observer, come in with ghosts and snipe HT and EMP army, fly in with from behind and kill collossi, don't forget to constantly scan so you know where he is, and then stim in with your main army. It is really micro oriented, you should try Darglein's Multitasking, it is awesome! Many ppl say that protoss can remax faster than you, but if you kill his army and then push into his base, where he has all gateways/pylons, he won't have time.
GL.

[FaDeKerrigan]

Originally Posted by demiseRedemption

Thanks for the posts, especially you FaDeKerrigan that was an awesome post. Ill start to find and collect my tvp games for further advice

Kind Regards Redemption

My pleasure to aid a Terran brethren.

+rep power would be nice =)

Quick Comments

ToRRedemption:

AWESOME POST

[ToRRedemption]

Go terran, i actually took care of a few deathballs yesterday as i was playing i was alt tabbing and stuff to get my mind ready and it worked so well!! I lured him out with my bio ball and flanked with my vikings and ghosts and then stimed in and won the game in the order and stuff you talked about I might just make it to plat before next season!!

Thanks GO TERRAN

Quick Comments

FaDeKerrigan:

Terran hwaiting!

[VandaL]

great post fadekerrigan

i'm finding high gold to plat tosses are having problems with drops.
so if you can find a good timing for them early you should be able to snipe a important tech structure like a cybo core or a pylon powering like 3/4 gates. this should give you a decent army lead, which is very important if you can't micro a ghost well enough.
other then that, spreading your own mmm ball is essential and try your best to dodge FFs

Quick Comments

FaDeKerrigan: