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**ToRSpartaz** · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 1:04 PM

Seriously guys im sick and tired of PvP's Dx !

I swear it is the most awful match up in starcraft, theres no skill in it nowadays it just becomes a fourgate fest. Personally my favourite at the moment is the very micro intensive TvT xD

But id love to hear you guys opinions on the matter and also some strategies that you Brotoss players out there might use to mix up the game

Aean(: · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 1:40 PM

3gate robo > 4gate

NvPinder · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aean(:

3gate robo > 4gate

i challenge any non top-200 on the ladder protoss (or azz) to stop me from 4-gating them 3 gate roboing.

edit: im not saying you're wrong or anything, im just saying that executing 3 gate robo to stop a 4 gate requires mechanics that 99.99% of people on the server dont have, whereas like 60% of people have the mechanics to execute a 4 gate.

Benji · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPMoney

i challenge any non top-200 on the ladder protoss (or azz) to stop me from 4-gating them 3 gate roboing.

Not top 200 is basically inactive or shit, you could proberbly beat their 3 gate robo with a 3 gate.

Crankenstein · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 2:04 PM

3gate robo beat a 4gate in the CO last night

Edit: actually I think it was just a plain 3 gate?

NvPinder · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

Not top 200 is basically inactive or shit, you could proberbly beat their 3 gate robo with a 3 gate.

well yeah and no, whilst i love to call everyone slightly worse than me horrible at the game as much as the next guy, you cant claim that only 0.01% of the people playing the games opinions matter.

don't get me wrong im not saying we should break the game for the top level simply so lower level players have an easier time, but I think there's definitely things blizzard could do to make 4-gate a little less ridiculously difficult to stop PvP. I mean **** even in gsl most pvp's have been both players 4 gating or one losing to 4 gate because they gambled the other player wouldn't.

It's clearly a problem and has been for a long time.

Also, i noticed you're not in the top 200 yet i see you on almost every night, what does that make you benji? :P

Benji · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 2:15 PM

300 Bonus pool = inactive. When its <50 you can call me shit.

But my post may have been very to the point, what I really mean is that you are easily a top 10 player on the ladder if you played it (which you don't, nothing wrong with that) and if you were to 4 gate someone that was 3 gate robo'ing and the person was outside of the top 200 there will be a skill difference which would render the results invalid. You'd need to get someone of equal skill to come to solid conclusions.

But, you're a damn good protoss, if you say 4 gate trashes 3 gate robo, ill believe that.

NvPinder · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 2:22 PM

i'm not saying it by any means hard counters 3 gate robo, im saying that the ability of the player to hold the 4 gate with 3 gate robo has to be really, really high in comparison to the persons ability to perform a well executed 4-gate, which immediately causes a problem for everyone outside of that level.

take the average silver all the way up to mid-masters level player, if he has even just 40 apm and knows the build he can probably execute a 4-gate well enough to stomp any player outside the top 200 pvp if they were to open non-probe cut 3 gate robo. That was more my point, not the fact that i can do it and beat misc non-grandmaster protosses, the fact that ANYONE can do it and beat non-grandmaster protosses.

Jaii · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 3:09 PM

I noticed this when I was playing a second account to mess about with protoss and terran. PvP seems easily the least fun matchup of the mirrors :\ Even mostly roach vs roach wars is more interesting than 4gate-or-die.

noobinater · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 3:09 PM

What about the 3stalker robo build that's been getting a lot of attention lately?
(how do I embed youtube videos)

You Tube

E: oh it's automatic? cool

Stroggos · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 3:13 PM

i have a 22probe 4gate which i've taken down top 5 sea toss players with a number of times
(who were doing the 20 probe 4gate)

You have to execute it perfectly.

22probe 4gate> 20 probe 4gate imo.

if 22probe 4gate versus 22probe 4gate you should be able to add a 2nd geyser and tech up as well as make a ton of units to defend.

there are some reps at the end of this thread i made when people first started doing the 20probe 4gate. Go down to the end of the thread and dl those reps. (the first reps arnt viable as i discovered its impossible to stop warping up the ramp)

http://forum.starcraft.co.nz/index.php?topic=1353.0

ToRDeathsFang · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 3:54 PM

Last night i got 4-gated by one of the best players of SEA...i lol'd

UncleTom · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsFang

Last night i got 4-gated by one of the best players of SEA...i lol'd

I'msorry I had to do that too you .

SayfT · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 4:35 PM

I offrace P sometimes and ZOMG PvP...WORST match up EVER! TvT is very fun, ZvZ not too sure :P

ToRDeathsFang · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleTom

I'msorry I had to do that too you .

Plz stfu with ur trolling...

**ToRSpartaz** · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aean(:

3gate robo > 4gate

Personally i agree its that or 2 gate robo

Satu · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 5:29 PM

Its called karma striking back at you for playing the OP race. :P

**ToRSpartaz** · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Its called karma striking back at you for playing the OP race. :P

Lol zerg the only OP race is Terran with their Marines -.- OP OP I TELLS YA!!!

**inFeZa** · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

300 Bonus pool = inactive..

I had 2k at one time... what does that mean?! dead!?!? lol

Also, i agree,

Best: TvT
Worst PvP
Weirdest: ZvZ

And concerning 3gate robo > 4 gate, it can work if its not a zealot only 4gate, if it is a zealot only, theres no way in hell to hold it.

Dogsi · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 7:08 PM

TVT are incredibly long matches. May be fun to play, boring to watch.

ZVZ can be fun to watch as long as it's not ling/bling wars.

I am not claiming to be great but I do alright (usually) vs 4 gate as long as I correctly call it. Just chrono 2 gates. I usually can have 6 units when they show up with their stalker/zealot/probe and start making the pylon. Focus down the pylon while a few of the zealots chase away the stalkers. By the time they warp in and walk another group of units there, I'll have my colossus out and usually things are ok.

I hate PvP for the fear of 4 gate though. If I think they aren't going to 4 gate, I don't chrono gateway units. If they do 4 gate when I didn't think they would, I will pretty much instantly lose. This causes me to often go "half way"... which means my robo is delayed AND I only have units from 2 gates... irritates me when I do this.

I would agree with a delay on warp tech. Add another 30 seconds or something. While it would impact the timing vs zerg and terran, I'd be willing to accept it.

Dogsi · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 7:09 PM

Something I've been thinking of lately and wonder if anyone has tried it... 2 gate, forge, robo, vs 4 gate... get a cannon (or 2) at your ramp, zealots to help hold the ramp... would this set you back to much to be worth it?

dKiWi · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 7:52 PM

ZvZ is all about who spits more, better acid -_-''' Not the funnest thing in the world

NvPinder · Thu, 3rd-Mar-2011, 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Focus down the pylon while a few of the zealots chase away the stalkers. By the time they warp in and walk another group of units there, I'll have my colossus out and usually things are ok.

dogsi, i love you, but this is one of the more ridiculous things ive ever read.

ZanooKu · Fri, 4th-Mar-2011, 1:26 AM

My old PvP involved Forge first, into Gate + Cyber + double gas. 1 Zealot / 2 Sentry with a Stargate pumping VR's.
I would hit once I had 5-6 with a decent amount of Zealots to help, and a few Stalkers. I only ever lost maybe 2 games max with that build (out of probably 15-20 games around 3K-3.2K+ Diamond) when I was base traded and caught off guard.
Now'a'days I don't bother with it because it's simple to beat.

**ToRSpartaz** · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 3:48 PM

I seriously need a new strategy aside from 2 gate robo and fourgating in PvP =/

I use to go hallucination build occasion which usually proved quite effective and nowadays if I do PvP Ill go fourgate into stargate transition since they usually go 2 gate robo -.-

Anyway Advice?

ZanooKu · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartaz

I need help in PvP, what do I do!?

Use the 3 Stalker rush. If you see a 4gate, you can laugh and win as you will win providing you're not terrible. If you see a 3 Gate Robo, you have 2 options.
1) Go robo yourself, and have a Colossi war.
2) Go star and win the game with Phoenix (or void rays).

dennistoo · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 4:51 PM

2gate forge into DT?

**ToRSpartaz** · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanooKu

Use the 3 Stalker rush. If you see a 4gate, you can laugh and win as you will win providing you're not terrible. If you see a 3 Gate Robo, you have 2 options.
1) Go robo yourself, and have a Colossi war.
2) Go star and win the game with Phoenix (or void rays).

Collosi war is a bore -.- zzzzzzzzzzzz wouldnt mind learning that 3 stalker rush

ZanooKu · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennistoo

2gate forge into DT?

3 Gate Robo > 2 Gate Forge + DT.

StitcH · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 6:36 PM

TvT isn't that fun to play when you are in for a quick game and you're late for church due to 1 stupid marco game.

PvP is very annoying. Most of the time, they just 4 gate to the max. lol

dennistoo · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanooKu

3 Gate Robo > 2 Gate Forge + DT.

which part of my statement you don't understand? i'm talking about against 4G.

ZanooKu · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennistoo

which part of my statement you don't understand? i'm talking about against 4G.

Then why the hell did you bring up 2Gate/Forge + DT?
I commented on your comment about that build.

dennistoo · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanooKu

Then why the hell did you bring up 2Gate/Forge + DT?
I commented on your comment about that build.

Isn't the subject about 4G? Keeps throlling ***.

ZanooKu · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennistoo

Isn't the subject about 4G? Keeps throlling ***.

Honestly wtf are you on about? I suggested the 3 Stalker rush build then you brang up another build which I also elaborated on.

Dogsi · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 8:23 PM

Zanooku, he was responding to the topic. Not you.

Dogsi · Mon, 7th-Mar-2011, 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPMoney

dogsi, i love you, but this is one of the more ridiculous things ive ever read.

Works for me as often as not. The key is to slow the 4 gate til my colossus is out. What I do depends a lot on what my opponent does. A common 4 gate is 1 stalker, 1 zealot, 1 probe sent to my base and they try to build a pylon at my ramp. So I have 2 zealots "fight" their units while 2 more zealots and a stalker take out the pylon before they can warp anything in.

This isn't "reliable" as they can just build the pylon farther away or there's a chance I don't spot it in time. However, it does work. When that fails, warp in a sentry or two to buy time and try to pick off units when/if I can.

I hate 4 gating. I have not tried it even once in PvP and I'm not about to start. I did it a few times vs zerg but it just felt so lame.

**ToRSpartaz** · Wed, 9th-Mar-2011, 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StitcH

TvT isn't that fun to play when you are in for a quick game and you're late for church due to 1 stupid marco game.

PvP is very annoying. Most of the time, they just 4 gate to the max. lol

I know what you mean mate 4 gates are so annoying when its just a 4 gate war far out D:

Makra · Wed, 9th-Mar-2011, 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Works for me as often as not. The key is to slow the 4 gate til my colossus is out. What I do depends a lot on what my opponent does. A common 4 gate is 1 stalker, 1 zealot, 1 probe sent to my base and they try to build a pylon at my ramp. So I have 2 zealots "fight" their units while 2 more zealots and a stalker take out the pylon before they can warp anything in.

I think what Pinder was referring to as ridiculous was you having a collosus out by the first round of 4 gate warp ins....

Dogsi · Wed, 9th-Mar-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makra

I think what Pinder was referring to as ridiculous was you having a collosus out by the first round of 4 gate warp ins....

Well, not exactly what I said...

What I said was that I'd take out the pylon they would have been planning to warp in at. That generally slows down the warp in. Then they need to warp in at their main and walk back to my base with enough numbers to secure the pylon. By that time, I will have a colossus out. Usually.

NvPinder · Wed, 9th-Mar-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Well, not exactly what I said...

What I said was that I'd take out the pylon they would have been planning to warp in at. That generally slows down the warp in. Then they need to warp in at their main and walk back to my base with enough numbers to secure the pylon. By that time, I will have a colossus out. Usually.

it's just not possible to have the units to kill the first pylon and the probe trying to build it and tech to collosi THAT fast man, like, an immortal you might just get out, maybe, but even that would be legitimately difficult off of 1 gate robo.

**cure** · Wed, 9th-Mar-2011, 10:40 PM

Agree with poison saying TvT > ZvZ > PvP. And looks like the immortal phoenix combo is getting popular again in PvP nowadays.

ZanooKu · Thu, 10th-Mar-2011, 12:41 AM

PvP is finally diversifying. The 3 Stalker Rush into Immortal/Phoenix play has been getting a lot more popular lately (according to fartosis).

Mukade · Thu, 10th-Mar-2011, 9:08 AM

PvP can be great for your micro, as I learned from Pinder.

**ToRSpartaz** · Mon, 14th-Mar-2011, 4:22 AM

Would you say that a pheonix opening would be viable against Protoss?

**inFeZa** · Mon, 14th-Mar-2011, 8:23 AM

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=226 here u go man. pvp thats 23 mins long

AxSGRiM · Tue, 15th-Mar-2011, 12:33 PM

The new 3 stalker chrono works really well for me and allows me to easily transition into a robo enough time for my immortals to come out and turn the tide of the 4 gate pushes.

**ToRSpartaz** · Tue, 15th-Mar-2011, 2:24 PM

Yeah im learning that build soon man

3 stalker push into 3 gate robo

Dogsi · Tue, 5th-Apr-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPMoney

dogsi, i love you, but this is one of the more ridiculous things ive ever read.

Well, I ended up trying it out last night against some one. It worked. Did it twice in ladder, won both...

If I can beat a top 200 protoss player with it... I dont' think it's ridiculous :-P

souljah · Tue, 5th-Apr-2011, 1:49 PM

yeah apparently IMYongHwa's 3 stalker robo build is quite good... got to try it tonight after losing 5 games in a row this morning...

**ToRSpartaz** · Tue, 5th-Apr-2011, 3:22 PM

It actually is it destroys fourgate hands down and i also have altered it to fit my own style of play

fur · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 10:34 AM

I hated PvP so much that I switched to Terran.

TvT is a 1337 matchup, if only my TvZ didn't suck so hard...

ZergGirl · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 11:25 AM

PvP is an awesome matchup, or was.
How could you not love 4gating? just micro your fat units better and you win.

SiF · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 1:58 PM

1 Gate Citadel (Blink) vs 4 Gate = All your base are belong to us

1/2 Gate Robo vs 1 Gate Citadel = All your base are belong to us

4 Gate vs 1/2 Gate Robo = All your base are belong to us

**ToRSpartaz** · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiF

1 Gate Citadel (Blink) vs 4 Gate = All your base are belong to us

1/2 Gate Robo vs 1 Gate Citadel = All your base are belong to us

4 Gate vs 1/2 Gate Robo = All your base are belong to us

What you mean by citadel dude? Wow i must sound noob 0.0

Makra · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 4:02 PM

Twilight council, it's the SC1 name for it I think.

fur · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiF

1 Gate Citadel (Blink) vs 4 Gate = All your base are belong to us

1/2 Gate Robo vs 1 Gate Citadel = All your base are belong to us

4 Gate vs 1/2 Gate Robo = All your base are belong to us

It was the same in BW. PvP is rock, paper, scissors

deL · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 5:57 PM

I actually quite enjoy PvP. This is proof enough that Blizzard should abolish it.

Delraich · Wed, 6th-Apr-2011, 7:06 PM

Does anyone have a build order for the 3 stalker push/ 3G robo and a basic explaination how it works (e.g. is it a defensive or aggressive build. Is that push more of a poke or is the build aggressive in a different way)?

I am just not quick enough for the 4G vs. 4G where a few seconds make a difference in who wins, so hopefully this build might be easier for me to pull off.

**ToRSpartaz** · Thu, 7th-Apr-2011, 4:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delraich

Does anyone have a build order for the 3 stalker push/ 3G robo and a basic explaination how it works (e.g. is it a defensive or aggressive build. Is that push more of a poke or is the build aggressive in a different way)?

I am just not quick enough for the 4G vs. 4G where a few seconds make a difference in who wins, so hopefully this build might be easier for me to pull off.

Its a semi aggressive build but then it turns into counter attacking play realistically, you use the 3 stalkers in order to delay the fourgate and scouut for proxys whilst you have some units pumping our e.g. immortals then into collosi

WagonWheel · Thu, 7th-Apr-2011, 7:15 AM

Korean all-in 4gate's my latest PvP BO. Works pretty well. Silver players have no idea what to do

noobinater · Thu, 7th-Apr-2011, 9:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delraich

Does anyone have a build order for the 3 stalker push/ 3G robo and a basic explaination how it works (e.g. is it a defensive or aggressive build. Is that push more of a poke or is the build aggressive in a different way)?

I am just not quick enough for the 4G vs. 4G where a few seconds make a difference in who wins, so hopefully this build might be easier for me to pull off.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy
Here you go. (You still need to be quick no matter what build you go if you're opponent is being aggressive in PvP)