SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

ToRPandarine · Fri, 25th-Oct-2013, 11:43 PM

SC2SEA.com GPD Open #87 - Here We Go Again
Welcome to the fortnightly sc2sea.com GPD Open.
Admins:
ToRPandarine
ToRElusory
mGGHalt
ToRDekid

The fortnightly sc2sea GPD is a 64 player, single elimination tournament.

Date:
Sunday, 27th of October, 2013.

Time:
6pm AEDT

; 3pm SGT

; 9pm NZT

27 october 2013 6:00 PM AEDT

Location:
SEA Server, sc2seaGPD group

Report Results and Queries to:
ToRPandarine (Q&A)
ToRElusory
mGGHalt
ToRDekid

Streamer Wanted!
Stream Link

Join Tournament Here
This week's brackets will be hosted externally on Challonge!

Prizes:
The winner of the GPD will be awarded 2 hours of coaching from a roster of coaches and…
“Golden Glory” Achievement

Champion of a GPD, watch out for this player on his way to Master league glory.

Rules and Regulations

+ [Rules and Regulations] +

Tournament Eligibility

Players must have their own SEA account, playing on a friend’s account is not allowed.
You must be in the Gold, Platinum or Diamond league (1v1 - SEA or NA license).
Eligibility for former Masters:
- Should not had achieved GM in either WoL or HoTS.
- Masters for at most two season.
- Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).
- This refers to being Masters on ANY server.
Winners of consecutive GPD Opens are respectfully asked to not participate.
Smurfing only gets you a one way ticket to being banned from the GPD Opens.

Contacting opponents and time limit

You must contact your opponent on Battle.net preferably by being in the group “sc2seaGPD” to play your matches.
All players are given 15 minutes to contact their opponent. Anyone that cannot be contacted will be
disqualified.
If a player cannot be contacted in 15 minutes because of an unavoidable real life event and was able to get someone to contact an Admin, they are given an additional 10 minutes before disqualification.

Race

You must play your Ranked 1v1 Ladder race throughout the tournament. (change from last GPD Open)
If your ladder race is different due to skewed offrace games, inform an Admin immediately.
Random players are not allowed to race pick unless an Admin has been informed a week prior to the Open.

Disconnect

If any player disconnects, use the “Resume from Replay” feature to continue the game. This applies in the event of a second disconnect.
If the player has gone offline for more than 5 minutes, inform an Admin immediately.
If the player continues to disconnect, the opponent may be awarded the match.

Manner

Pauses should be notified and not exceed 5-10 minutes depending on the reason for said pause.
Excessive pausing in game may lead to a warning and/or a disqualification
Bad manner is not tolerated.
BMing will result in a stern warning. Persistent BMing will result in a disqualification.
Racist, hateful or excessively derogatory language will result in a disqualification with zero notice and a review to impose a timed or full ban.

Any disputes will be handled by the Admins after reviewing all associated replays.
Any question can be directed at the Admins.
Please be honest and truthful to ensure the best experience for all. Smurfing and/or hacking will result in a disqualification and ban from subsequent tournaments

Tournament Format

+ [Tournament Format] +

We are still looking for anyone from the community looking to help the GPD scene. Apply to be a staffer today!

Any questions find an Admin in game or send a pm here. We will also be in the group channel.

GLHF

VB_Inter · Fri, 25th-Oct-2013, 11:46 PM

Always look forward to these

**Elusory** · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 12:49 AM

Woot, will be able to admin from home this time

eCKoa`ProzeR · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 12:55 AM

How to apply and become a staffer?

And will you still be able to play in the tournament even if you're part of the staff?

**Elusory** · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eMp.RavensScout

How to apply and become a staffer?

And will you still be able to play in the tournament even if you're part of the staff?

Just PM Panda who's the main admin. And yes I guess you can, since admins do not have any extra benefits. You don't get 100 minerals more at the start of the game, nor can you auto-advance yourself! Just need to update brackets as you play.

**syfRize** · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 1:05 AM

I guess I can't play because I was

for 1 season (even though went straight from

to

...) on SEA...

If I can be permitted to play, I would love that

I got accepted into the GPDL by Elusory, so my profile checks out, right? ;D

**Elusory** · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxS.KnighT

I guess I can't play because I was

for 1 season (even though went straight from

to

...) on SEA...

If I can be permitted to play, I would love that

I got accepted into the GPDL by Elusory, so my profile checks out, right? ;D

Different tournament have different rules, I guess the rules are just gonna stay solid for GPD Open since it's a weekly / fortnightly event

I allowed because it's quite a fun event, wouldn't wanna count out people who just don't fit the criteria.

NairX.Totodile · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 10:39 AM

is PiG added to the roster of coaches?

ToRLuneth · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 2:03 PM

Good to see these happening again

iRLpuku · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 2:19 PM

former GM but now plat on KR, NA, diamond on SEA with 50% win rate can sign up? hehe..

**mGGNemesis** · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 6:19 PM

•Eligibility for former Masters:◦Should not had achieved GM in either WoL or HoTS.
◦Masters for at most two season.
◦Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).
◦This refers to being Masters on ANY server.

It's in the rules and regulations

Quick Comments

eCKoa`ProzeR:

But... but.. but.. Puku is nub now :( lol

NairX.Totodile · Sat, 26th-Oct-2013, 6:58 PM

can i have the list for coaches?

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 10:25 AM

I am hoping that this rule can be reconsidered:

Quote:

Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).

I believe this reason unfairly disqualifies myself, and possibly others, from the GPD Open. And I will explain why.

1. Back in 2013 Season 3, Heart of the Swarm was still a fairly new expansion with a considerably higher % of players, at least on the SEA server, which didn't have a large player base to begin with. As such, there were more new players, and many of the existing players were still getting a handle of HotS. At the same time, the percentage of players in Masters league was considerably higher than what it is now, resulting in players that would only be at the skill level of diamond now being classified as masters in S3 2013.

2. The current and previous season have been a lot longer than season 3, 2013. With rules such as the one mentioned above, they are keeping that masters league rank still relevant for a considerably longer time. Sure, I was placed in masters in S3 2013, but that was arguably skewed (point 1) and was way back in May, over 5 months ago. Since then, I was originally placed in Diamond S4, and started in Platinum S5.

3. Many players believe SEA is a bit of a joke. Diamond NA is often considered higher than Diamond SEA, yet these players are still eligible, while players such as myself are not. This means that the rules, as they are, systematically allow players that are considered stronger, while not allowing weaker players for the mindset that they are too strong for the tournament.

For someone who only plays SEA, it is very disappointing. I cannot play Masters tournaments as I am not a masters player, and I cannot play GPD tournaments because rules like this qualify me out. SEA doesn't get many tournaments and doesn't have many players as it is.

I am not simply trying to make myself look bad - If I was doing that, I would have highlighted poor performance in recent GPDL tournament (knocked out in first bracket) or lacking ladder results at the moment. Instead, what I am trying to do is show that these rules are systematically disqualifying players that would be suitable for this tournament.

sR.Kumo · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 10:32 AM

I personally agree that if KR Diamonds are allowed, then SEA Masters should be allowed. Kr Diamonds would easily qualify for high masters on SEA, so that's only fair that these people are too. What the admins need to do in that scenario to is make sure that they are masters only on SEA, and not high Masters SEA and at the same time low masters on NA/Kr. With things such as sc2ranks.com, that's a fairly simple task.
On the other hand, recently BattleNet has been placing players in leagues below their skill level, I can confirm this with players from AxS who are masters on NA getting SEA Diamond, and NA Diamonds getting SEA gold. That sort of drop in skill level really can't happen to active players over a five day period between season end and season start.

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 10:58 AM

Thanks for your reply. My issue deals with players that are not even Masters on SEA currently - players that were Masters on SEA back in May (and only then, across their SC2 career) are disqualified under currently rules, but players that are Diamond on KR in the current season are eligible, despite their skill arguably being much higher.

**mGGNemesis** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:09 AM

As discussed in another post, comparing GPDs across servers is going to be hard. Even though diamonds on KR would be considered better than a diamond on SEA, another can argue I was diamond on kr for less than a season only etc etc.

The good news is this season is ending

syfNaMeK · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:14 AM

I think being Diamond on Korea is fine as long as the player has laddered considerably on SEA/NA and is Diamond there as well. adamhlt is right with the higher percentage of players as well. At the start of HOTS I was in Diamond league but when they changed how the percentages worked I was dropped back to platinum

Quick Comments

	mGGNemesis:	same for me >.<
	sR.Kumo:	Someone who's legit diamond on Kr AND sea would be appropriate, yeah

**mGGNemesis** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:20 AM

From the admin pov it's hard as on the other end, there will be players who will be unhappy that they are vs-ing ex masters or even ex gms when it is a GPD tournament. So the admins are trying to be fair with the rules especially when there is a prize involved.

◦Masters for at most two season.
◦Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).

This part of the rules recognizes this dilemma and allows the re start of a season to give these players the chance to get back into playing GPD if they really do not get promoted back to masters.

MrLando · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamhlt

3. Many players believe SEA is a bit of a joke. Diamond NA is often considered higher than Diamond SEA, yet these players are still eligible, while players such as myself are not. This means that the rules, as they are, systematically allow players that are considered stronger, while not allowing weaker players for the mindset that they are too strong for the tournament.

It's funny how on sc2sea people say SEA server is a joke (I agree) yet still shun the players who play at a diamond level regularly on SEA from playing tournaments. Seems hypocritical.

Just do this guys:
If a SEA server rank is to be ignored (Especially season 1 and 2) just ask for another servers rank this season and have a certain amount of games that has to be played for the current season on that account.

BingBongBobsYoUncle.

ToRPandarine · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:54 AM

thank you nem

Can I just say this? As an admin for both BSG and GPDs, the most commonest issue I have had so far is discerning a players true league ever since the way the MMR works. I cannot tell you the amount of complaints, accusations and what-have-you's I've received.

And this is what the rules/guidelines are for. To help us regulate this in what was deemed the best way at the time. And they can only do so much! Loopholes, misinterpretation and people just blatantly ignoring them plague us. But that's what its there for. A guideline to help run things a lil smoothly.

I understand it is very restrictive. And its meant to be for the time being. Unless someone magically makes a site that collects ALL your information and gives me an average statistic (eg. average game time - allows to know if you're games are short (red flag) or decently lengthed; average APM/EPM; win-loss; etc.) And for those who are going to argue that I can do all that, it would mean going through every GPD 10-potentially 64 players profiles.

The GPDs are also under 'new staff' and this is only the 2nd one that has been organised and being run by us. I assure you that we're keeping an eye on how things are going, whether rules need to be reviewed and revised and when the new season rolls out, a revamp of the rules accordingly to what has happened during the new season.

**mGGNemesis** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:55 AM

btw I just read properly. No, Diamond on NA is comparable to Diamond on SEA. The arguments usually for whether Diamonds on KR to be comparable to that from NA and SEA.

sR.Kumo · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLando

It's funny how on sc2sea people say SEA server is a joke (I agree) yet still shun the players who play at a diamond level regularly on SEA from playing tournaments. Seems hypocritical.

I don't quite get what you mean by this - High SEA Diamonds can still be Eu/NA Diamonds, and they are in most cases - disregarding the retarded league placement this past season, of course. When are SEA Diamonds denied entrance to diamond tournaments? I've not seen that happening :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLando

Just do this guys:
If a SEA server rank is to be ignored (Especially season 1 and 2) just ask for another servers rank this season and have a certain amount of games that has to be played for the current season on that account.

Still makes it really unfair for lower league players.
How about Gold level players who only ladder on SEA?
I honestly think that the same ideology as the BSG tournaments should be used.
If your current SEA rank is G, P, or D, then you should be allowed to play - however, for ex masters there will be some restrictions, same as there are on the BSG for ex-plats. If they were ex plats on early-mid WoL, but have been BSG level for a long while now, they're counter BSG level :/ if they're very recent plats, they're not counted BSG and not allowed in. If you've ever been HIGHER than GPD on any OTHER server, you shouldn't be allowed to play. I'm not saying those should be the rules, but if I could suggest anything, that's what I'd find fair. Of course, there are still players in the BSG who smurf, but there are those everywhere and the admins do try to crack down on those to their full ability :/

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 12:15 PM

I just want to make clear that I am not arguing that people should be disqualified for being diamond on other ladders. I agree with others here that diamond SEA should make you eligible.

I am arguing that the current 2 seasons back plus current season is too restrictive, and fails to take into account aspects that were particular to previous seasons but not the current. Even if a player kept the same skill level from HotS season 1 up until now, that doesn't make them the same league as what they were at the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

◦Masters for at most two season.
◦Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).

This part of the rules recognizes this dilemma and allows the re start of a season to give these players the chance to get back into playing GPD if they really do not get promoted back to masters.

The problem with the second rule is that if you were placed into masters back when HotS was newer, with a higher % of masters players, and a much shorter season, you are disqualified from this tournament. Given the same skill level, what qualified you before as masters now would qualify you as diamond. As this is a GPD tournament, you would be included if it wasn't for this rule.
So, for my personal case (for example), I achieved Masters back in May. Since then, I have been allocated to both Diamond and Platinum. Even if I was the same skill level as I was at in May, I would likely still be getting Diamond now under the current system.

This means that the rules systematically denies players such as myself from playing, yet allowing stronger or equal players to play. Personally, I would like to see it at least stripped back to those who have not achieved masters on the current season or previous season, so long as there was active laddering.

The first rule doesn't affect me personally, but I can imagine cases when this is overly restrictive also. As the rule applies to all seasons, an early SC2 WoL master x2 will be ineligible, even if they had achieved platinum every season after that.

If the "spirit" of this tournament is really GPD, it doesn't need to dwell so much in the past.
I don't believe you should be asked to review each player, but simply adjust the rule of no masters 2 seasons back to no masters 1 season back. That would be more relevant to the current state of SEA SC2.

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxS.Kumo

When are SEA Diamonds denied entrance to diamond tournaments? I've not seen that happening :/

That is arguably what is happening for this tournament, under the current rules.

I get that the rules may not always work for every specific case, but in their current state they seem to be both contradictory in terms of players allowed and not within the spirit, in my opinion, of GPD when consistent Diamonds on SEA cannot play.

**mGGNemesis** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 12:28 PM

As I said before, this season is ending. The cycle of 2 seasons as a gap was also timed when bliz changed the rules for promotion (and demotion).

The next season is starting soon, and the 2 seasons cycle would be moved downwards (or upwards depending on how u look at it).

The admins have to consider both spectrums. There are many other players who have never achieved masters before. The rules do not say that masters can never ever play again which was part of the rules before panda took over.

Would u rather the earlier rules where masters can (almost) never play in a GPD (ex masters)?

So this consideration is already in the new rules/guidelines so that these players who were ex masters but diamonds even though legitly laddering to enter back into being able to play in a GPD.

It might be strict but it is necessary.

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

Would u rather the earlier rules where masters can (almost) never play in a GPD (ex masters)?

Well obviously not, as this would be the exact opposite of the points I'm trying to make.

It's nice to see this kind of issue looked into before, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement on the rules, especially for a platform as dynamic as the SC2 SEA scene.
EDIT: After looking back, the previous rules were equal or less restrictive than the current ones. So if you were criticising the old rules, those criticisms should apply to the current ones also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

It might be strict but it is necessary.

This isn't about the rules being too strict so much as it is about the rules being inconsistent in who is allowed to enter and who isn't when considering GPD skill level.

As for the season is ending, that's great and all, but it doesn't help for those of us who have already missed one GPD Open and will now miss another. It will also not help those in future with similar issues.

Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic that you guys are organising this and running a tournament on SC2 SEA. This is just my personal feedback.

iRLpuku · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:10 PM

blizz should just introduce an ELO rating. or some form of rating to eliminate this problem. Ex-GM like myself losing to diamonds in SEA but cant take part in GPD... T.T lol

Quick Comments

mGGNemesis:

:/

**Elusory** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:13 PM

In the first place, such tournaments are held for a single main reason: to improve the skill level of the GPDs. Also, to give them motivation to train hard and reach masters so they don't have to participate in such tournaments anymore. By having reached masters before, I don't really care if the MMR was skewed or not, but it shows that you have at least the determination to reach masters. Some people don't even hit Diamond when the bunch of new people came. Rules are rules, it's there for people to obey and not to criticize. You just have to wait for the next season to participate in this event, which is in 2 weeks time, should be done when the next GPD comes. I really do feel that a two season's grace is a good enough time.

Like said before, the point of GPD opens isn't for people to gain fame and glory while, to quote what Wally said in SC2SEA chat before, he's sitting at the high chair of masters looking at our banters. People really need to understand that it's totally alright to not be allowed to participate in restricted league tournaments. What I had in mind for GPDL is to reduce restrictions (I DISCOURAGED ex-masters, not BANNED them), to allow as many people to join in the fun. I even allowed the controversial Totodile to play. Yet at the same time, I made my point clear that this is to allow people who recently didn't have enough motivation to train to train once again. The prize for this tournament is 2 hours of coaching, something that people who have not hit masters before need. We want to close the disparity of the skill gap, not widen it.

Different restricted league tournaments have different rules because the admins have different thinking of how they wanna limit the ex-good players to play. So, for future GPD open's sake, do not bring in GPDL rules into the arguments. Hope I didn't sound very offensive or anything, but that's just on my mind right now.

NairX.Totodile · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:13 PM

K my bad soz, was in bad mood

EDIT:mabad

Quick Comments

	Elusory:	Do you realise you're the only one bitching around here? The MTi guys are being very civil here.
	MrLando:	Uhoh.

**mGGNemesis** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:29 PM

It's good to give feedback and to hear them but at the end, let the admins decide. Just remember they have to be fair to all players in this GPD tournament or any other tournament that isn't open league.

I know the ex masters now diamond or even plat who might not had been able to get masters again by laddering legitly are frustrated but this is one of the sandwich grey areas that is tricky to deal with in the first place.

At the end of the day, the admins make the final decision and if these players just cannot take part in a certain GPD tournament, then that's that. Another organiser might have 'wider' rules cos the goals are different. Clanwars set different guidelines as well and it even differs sometimes between which clans we play vs. But what the admins for this tournament finally decides, it's something to respect them by and just follow. No one wants to be unreasonably unfair for no good reason.

ToRsupapower · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:36 PM

sigh.... unless you've got master mmr on korea, e.g. rank 1 diamond kr vsing masters every one out of two games i think you should be allowed to play...

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToRElusory

Rules are rules, it's there for people to obey and not to criticize.

I'm not simply criticizing the rules or attempting to gain an exception to the rules, I am just trying to outline what I see as some inconsistency of the rules in hope that it is considered for the future. We don't have a lot of players here on SEA.

Players who managed Masters at one point, but have struggled since, could be required to wait 6 months+ to relevantly participate in one of the very few SEA tournaments, which is discouraging to say the least.

We aren't all always improving - especially as SC2 begins to take more of a backseat, or the meta-game changes to something we're not as familiar with. There are a multitude of reasons as to why skill can drop.

Anyway, thanks, and I appreciate the supplementary role of the GPDL.

syfNaMeK · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 3:51 PM

Oh no I just realised that this starts at 6 pm! Sadly i cant play in this now since my GPDL match is scheduled to be played then. I will be here for the next one though

**Elusory** · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaMeK

Oh no I just realised that this starts at 6 pm! Sadly i cant play in this now since my GPDL match is scheduled to be played then. I will be here for the next one though

You can still play in this while waiting for your opponent to show up in GPDL. He's offline at the moment anyway

Or, you can ask your opponent to GPD to wait for a while to play your match in GPDL.

syfNaMeK · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToRElusory

You can still play in this while waiting for your opponent to show up in GPDL. He's offline at the moment anyway

Or, you can ask your opponent to GPD to wait for a while to play your match in GPDL.

hmmmm yeah ill do that then haha. If i dont make it to my game i understand if the player doesnt wish to wait though

ToRLuneth · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 4:25 PM

Have to pull out to night unfortunately, going out to dinner for my brothers birthday.
Best of luck to those competing

adamhlt · Sun, 27th-Oct-2013, 8:20 PM

Congratulations missAsuzy