[TCPLemminks]

Following suspicious activity from Antelope in recent clan wars we decided to conduct replay analysis of Antelope's games. We quickly discovered that it was not Antelope who had played in the games against TCP and FS. We quickly discovered that it was GRiM and Psych who had smurfed for him.

We approached GRiM about this and were told that it was Antelope's Korean friend, which did not fit that fact that there were two different people who had smurfed. After confronting Antelope and GRiM with the fact that we knew it was them, GRiM admitted to the smurfing and wrote his blog.

GRiM's Blog

After much discussion we, the sc2sea Admin team, have decided on the following,

For GRiM, you are to be banned from all sc2sea competitions for 6 months. This is not only because you are the leader and actively participated in the smurfing, but you also broke a promise after the first time when we let you off with a slap on the wrist. However, we encourage you to continue what you do for this community.

For Psych, you are to be banned from all sc2sea competitions for 5 months. As far as we are concerned, you've shown no remorse for your actions.

For Antelope, you are to be banned from all sc2sea competitions for 3 months.

We sincerely hope that you all learn from this experience. Smurfing is a serious offense and will not be tolerated in any clan wars nor the SEACL. We have decided that future offenders will be punished more severely.

+ [hotkey analysis] +

[nirvAnA]

Lemminks and YoonA have been awarded the detective achievement for uncovering the scandal, which resulted in GRiM's eventual confession blog.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	dunno why but i lol'd hard at this
	inFeZa:	how is that funny?
	TAEdgE:	he doesn't know, hence the 'dunno why' infeza dickhead

[FSNiseH]

Sad to see this happen. Grim seemed like a pretty cool guy, and I think he still is. He just fucked up.

Quick Comments

TCPKiaSu:

multiple times -_-

[AxSGRiM]

I deserve this and will serve my punishment as best as I can, along with continuing to do my work. Sorry to everyone involved, but I will also permanently leave sR.

Quick Comments

Antel0pe:

i'll miss you as leader grim

[sR_Osiris]

what no grim dont leave sR

Quick Comments

souljah:

are... you... kidding... me

[TheGentleman]

It's good to hear that you will still give to the community. I hope you grow from this experience.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

It disappoints me to see good kids caught up in trash like this, but, at the same time I think this incident could have been a hell of a lot worse. I just hope you guys realize now how great the impact is when something like this happens.

I know GRiM and Antelope and genuinely remorseful for what they have done and are willing to work hard to make it right. A lesson learnt for everyone that cheating at any level is not only stupid but will not be tolerated.

[PiG]

Antelopes used to be my 2nd favourite animal...

@Antelope: It means Antelopes used to be my 2nd favourite animal...

edit: I actually did. And whilst its sad you smurfed I'm not serious, I will always love antelopes.

Quick Comments

	Antel0pe:	( ._.) is that meant to mean anything?
	Akilos:	I used to have a pet pig once....

[ToRSpookToR]

known about this stuff for a while isnt a surprise although i am sad to say i started to trust sR and grim again TT, hopefully everyone can move past it and get on with eSports n stuff

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	wtf - a spook post where he doesn't flame someone or BM ? or just be angry about balance?.. the ****?
	TCPLemminks:	In all honesty, you and me both
	ToRGreenArchon:	Maybe the world really is gonnacome to an end
	ROOTPetraeus:	spook <3
	ToRSpartaz:	Hmmm I second that Pookie
	Dox:	who is smurfing on spooks forum account omg quick ban
	BAD.BiGbiRd:	LOL Dox hahahaha
	ToRsupapower:	this one's in spooks favour

[Theend]

Haha, they never change.

Quick Comments

	TACeeSerps:	Awesome contribution to this thread 11/10
	ROOTPetraeus:	lol
	TCPKiaSu:	lol

[OSPixel]

It's pretty sad to see Smurfing in a freindly BSG, in the end does it really matter if your team loses a BSG clanwar or not!... Hopefully everyone involved learns from this.

[ToRSpookToR]

Originally Posted by ministrySpook

Quick Comments:

fray`ChadMann:
wtf - a spook post where he doesn't flame someone or BM ? or just be angry about balance?.. the ****?

i recently looked at my inbox 3 of the 4 last pms i got were infractions and bans i am trying to change my ways, i hope to aspire to be the nice to your face bms you behind your back type person this community so loves

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:	New Spook is boring already TT
	inFeZa:	i call bs
	RVLiveR:	maybe BM in a way that doesn't get you banned but still makes us laugh
	eCKo`Switch:	ministry pook selling out
	ToRsupapower:	I don't like new spook

[x5.Revenant]

I always thought Antelope was a very matured kid despite being only so young. Ah well, shit happens.

Quick Comments

Antel0pe:

meh, people always dissapoint

[Fenner]

I can't believe the amount of smurfing and cheating that is going on in SEA. It's ******* disgusting and spits in the face of anyone who tries to improve at this game legitimately. I wish the punishment was more severe, but at least there is some punishment.

Great work finding these guys, shame there actually has to be time and effort put into finding this kind of shit.

Quick Comments

	TCPKerO:	Yes seeing the punishment and a lot of the responses I'm a bit disappointed in some attitudes also.
	ROOTPetraeus:	burn 'em

[ProAnnn]

Grim is just 14 and i think antelope is around that age, being young makes you want to show off, wont really be too surprised if they smurfed or something.

Hope this punishment will help make them more mature and do more for the community!

P.S STILL LOVE YOU GRIM FOR DT BUILD

Quick Comments

	Antel0pe:	thanks for being so open minded, unlike the person who posted above you
	x5.Revenant:	^RTS communities are built upon trust. One should be condemned for breaking it, so no surprises there.

[Antel0pe]

Hi

Many of you guys probably read GRiM's apology post, well this is probably gonna be nothing in comparison. I'm just not proficient in writing long drawn out walls of text. I could go over everything like GRiM did, but I'd like to be straight forward, and get my message across. Please don't take this as me being very arrogant, I've just got not
Well to state the obvious, I was involved in a smurfing incident along with Grim and Psych. I'm here to put out my sincerest apologies to everyone who was affected and the people that would have been disappointed in me.

TCP, and all it's players
I'm sincerely sorry about the clan war, it was meant a lot to me as TCP was my former clan, and I wanted to prove to myself that I could create a clan that could challenge BSG clans of the highest calibre like ToR and TCP. I'm especially sorry to Redux, who could have had a chance on an all-kill.

FS, and all it's players
I would also like to apologize to FS for smurfing in the clan war vs them. I don't really have an excuse for why I smurfed against FS. I think it was my over ambition that I wanted to get a fantastic results, showing the sR.BSG could get a decent kill on FS. Part of me was mad at myself that I had to resort to such matters as I always looked up to BenAD as an ideal leader.

Everyone in the Admin team
I know that I should have come clean but I was trying to keep sR alive, and take all the blame to myself. I'm sorry to Lemminks who had to put up with me bothering him on Skype and TCPYoonA and everyone else for analyzing the replays to find the smurfers. Apologies to everyone in the Admin team which I didn't know/mention

GRiM, DreaM and everyone in the sR.BSG Team
GRiM, I know we fought a lot and a bunch of disagreeing terms, I'm really sorry that I was over ambitious and I asked you to play in the Clanwar under my account. I hope we'll still talk and stuff. You still need to teach me gosh terran.Ta
DreaM, you were the quiet one, leading the clan silently while GRiM prepared for veNdetta and I tried leading my own bunch. You gave me some quality advice and I failed to follow. I'm sorry that I ended up jeopardizing the whole clan, and left you with the responsibility of leading the clan alone.
sR.BSG Team, holy shit, I can't tell you guys how sorry I am. I remember when Hwangje would play TvT with me and our only strategy was a 3rax vs 3rax but one day I tricked you and made a bunker. Remember the rax train you made after you lost everything? Moka, when you first joined and you still played Terran? and we had that split Mech vs Mech game. Remember the times when Ninja and SouL were still in BSG. Well Ninja's Platinum, beat light and SouL's Diamond now. I'll miss Ninja, SouL, Hwangje and Moka for sure. I'm sorry that I had to leave sR.BSG like this.

Everyone I met on chat box over the summer
I still hope that I'm still no4 in your list Baka
I'll use that Reaper build til I'm Masters, Cabracan
I remember laughing so hard when I watched your proxy reaper on Cloud Kingdom replay, Spook. I know that we had a rough patch this evening and I hope that we can get all of it ironed out.
Remember when we met at the ESP Lan over the summer, KiaSu? literally just 2 days after I joined TCP, I went out and met you in ESP2 . Remember the shit ladder games we played?
I'm sure I've missed a bunch of other people.
I'm sorry to you all, and I hope that we can still maintain a decent relationship

To make up for what happened, GRiM and I have decided to host a tournament. It would be called the Name and Shamed League. None of the details are confirmed yet.

Finally I would like to apologize to everyone in sc2sea, I plan on leaving sc2sea once I'm done with the tournament and I feel like I've tried my best to amend my bad deeds.

P.S. GRiM, I personally think my blog is better than yours :3

Quick Comments

	BaKaiNu:	No.5 now.
	Aiya:	Judging from your general chat posts and your new signature it seems like this is more saying "sorry" rather than apolog

[Shieldz]

u guys should be forgiven u guys got ur punishment already meh

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	wtf?
	NOM:	da faq?
	RicocheT:	*Insert Tactical Face Palm Here*
	fray`Eros:	11/10 this guy gets it..........................
	TAEdgE:	hahaha lucas

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by Shieldz

u guys should be forgiven u guys got ur punishment already meh

Quick Comments

NOM:

perfect

[FS.Kezz]

I would possibly be willing to forgive those involved if it was the first time they had done these things, however to find out that you have been caught before, given a warning, and gone on to do more of the same thing makes it impossible. I don't believe for a second that you are showing remorse for your actions - a simple blog post/thread post can be done by anyone and posting 'i'm sincerely sorry' doesn't mean you actually are. You clearly did not learn the first time, so it would be foolish to believe that you honestly have learnt and mean it this time. Until you, through your actions, prove that you have learnt your lesson, I do not forgive anyone.

[AuXCoolpuff]

owch, this is crazy D;

[inFeZa]

gawd damn people. Shit like this won't go past the community without it being picked up and you will be caught.

so just stahp.
stahp guys.


stahp

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahp......

[iM tgun]

Ban lengths aren't nearly long enough.

Quick Comments

	fray`Alpha:	agreed
	MezjE:	got lucky
	Snx.FigJig:	they should be banned for 1 billion gillion zillion years
	FS.Kezz:	Hear hear.

[NOM]

this thread..

Quick Comments

	sRDreaM:	Lol
	Nemo:	nom, nom nom ... :)

[MooZfY]

ah they're still young, i remember i used to do alot of stupid shit when i was young. you get hit once you learn it and never do it again the end!

Quick Comments

	FSDele:	this is hit number 2.
	breadfan:	gotta be careful not to make it the norm to say "14 year olds are OK to cheat because they are 14" though

[OSPixel]

Everyone does something that's dumb when they are younger, stealing accounts, smurfing w/e but still, being warned already before, doing it again. then get such a tiny punishment when alot of other smurfer's i see caught get permanently banned, Smurfing is Smurfing whether its a friendly clan war or a friendly tournament!, one warning and if you get caught a second time permanent ban should be how it goes, nothing teaches you like being permenantly banned from a website you love! that's what really teaches the lesson.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by FSQwerty

other smurfer's i see caught get permanently banned

where? - the only precedent was CHobo - he didn't get an indefinite ban. His was 1 year - because he was smurfing in competitions for money.

EDIT: Re comments - no CHobo got a 12 month ban from SC2SEA competitions - I *think* eddie may have given him indefinite ban from Masters Cup tho. But the SC2SEA Admins don't have power of that event - this is a ban for the individuals involved for any and all SC2SEA events (as thats the limit of the SC2SEA admin's influence) - I believe it will also result it them missing the next SEACL. Because there hasn't been other situations (besides CHobo - which was an extreme case) no set punishment was worked out - the Admins chatted about it for a few hours and decided that a short punishment and the shame it would bring is good enough for these guys - however, now everyone knows its a serious issue - and future smurfing incidents may have a harsher punishment - consider this case a warning to every other potential smurfer in the community.

Originally Posted by FSQwerty

nothing teaches you like being permenantly banned from a website you love!

That doesn't teach anything - that just stops you. GRiM gives back to the community with his help with wT Weekly. Perma bans are silly.

Quick Comments

	syfSoundwave:	Are you sure? I seem to remember CHoBo being permenantly banned, or was that just from Master's Cup?
	Bash:	he mighta got banned fter reacting poorly to people being dicks (though he deserved alot of the dick-ish comments)

[OSPixel]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

That doesn't teach anything - that just stops you. GRiM gives back to the community with his help with wT Weekly. Perma bans are silly.

so its ok to cheat if you give back to the community ? Fair enough.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1208 <---- first dot point Anyone caught smurfing (signing up with multiple accounts/playing in a compeition meant for lower leage players when youre overqualified) will be instantly banned. For god's sake grow a pair and learn to compete at your own level.

now the question is to people does a clanwar count as a competition or not ? given there are no prizes

Quick Comments

	AsylumofSouls:	imo it's much worse when there are no prizes. There's not even a point to it.
	breadfan:	I missed the part where anyone said cheating was OK

[Bash]

Originally Posted by FSQwerty

so its ok to cheat if you give back to the community ? Fair enough.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1208 <---- first dot point Anyone caught smurfing (signing up with multiple accounts/playing in a compeition meant for lower leage players when youre overqualified) will be instantly banned. For god's sake grow a pair and learn to compete at your own level.

now the question is to people does a clanwar count as a competition or not ? given there are no prizes

of course its a competition, you compete for the prize of glory and bragging rights.

and permabans are dumb for alot of reasons, if we permaban people we lose good people who made mistakes, yes its a dick move but its better to persuade him to keep giving back to the community than it is to say "**** you get out", and then have people making new accounts and pretending to be someone else.

This way he has to cop it on the chin, and put up with people not trusting him and saying "screw you smurfer/cheater" , im sure theres alot of people here that simply wont trust these people again, or not for a long time, but they also get the chance to earn it back over time.

if you dont trust them/hate them for it then go ahead- no one is stopping you, thats okay and they have to put up with it, thats their punishment, but the fact they have the chance to earn it back is their motivation to be a better person, and to learn from it.

/endrant.

PS- i dont know these guys, nor was i involved at all, this is my opinion on the issue.

I do think bans should be longer, but thats obviously not my call

Quick Comments

	Antel0pe:	I'll keep what you said in mind
	NOM:	I aggree with Bash on perma bans
	FsDronesInJail:	We shall have no execution of accounts on this site!

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by FSQwerty

so its ok to cheat if you give back to the community ? Fair enough.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1208 <---- first dot point Anyone caught smurfing (signing up with multiple accounts/playing in a compeition meant for lower leage players when youre overqualified) will be instantly banned. For god's sake grow a pair and learn to compete at your own level.

now the question is to people does a clanwar count as a competition or not ? given there are no prizes

He gave back to the community(and will still be giving back) before this smurfing incident. Your argument is invalid. Bye bye.

P.S. The punishment is reasonable considering it was just a small-scale "competition".

Quick Comments

OSPixel:

i did mean if you give to the community before getting caught cheating. not give to the community after btw.

[ToRPatto]

Originally Posted by ZooMforYou

ah they're still young, i remember i used to do alot of stupid shit when i was young. you get hit once you learn it and never do it again the end!

(Not directly at you Zoom) I can't really see what age has to do with it. Think it's kind of cheap to do this to your own community and it's good to see some punishment being enforced.

Quick Comments

ToRGreenArchon:

Age is nothing but a number :)

[pulsePsych]

Hello Guys,

This is LgNPsych (or just Psych), I just want to apologize for doing a smurf play on a clanwar (against TCP). I was asked to play and I said yes, I never thought this would happen. I know smurfing is a bad thing, but I never thought like a friendly-clanwar can be a big impact if someone smurfs, so yeah. I wanna say I'm sorry to Lemminks and to their BSG Team specifically Redux, madORyung. I made a mistake, I learned from it, and taken responsibility of my actions. I'm sorry once again to TCP, SC2SEA Admins, and Team Solarity

As for now, I'm leaving Team Solarity for good. Hopefully I can find a place to stay permanently this time.

-Psych

Quick Comments

	Akilos:	the thing is... you have the tendency to clan hop
	ToRSpartaz:	+ 1 to Titan's comment
	RicocheT:	People dont like clan hoppers
	Cube.Dione:	booo~!

[TABjornbrandr]

Originally Posted by Psych

Hello Guys,

This is LgNPsych (or just Psych), I just want to apologize for doing a smurf play on a clanwar (against TCP). I was asked to play and I said yes, I never thought this would happen. I know smurfing is a bad thing, but I never thought like a friendly-clanwar can be a big impact if someone smurfs, so yeah. I wanna say I'm sorry to Lemminks and to their BSG Team specifically Redux, madORyung. I made a mistake, I learned from it, and taken responsibility of my actions. I'm sorry once again to TCP, SC2SEA Admins, and Team Solarity

As for now, I'm leaving Team Solarity for good. Hopefully I can find a place to stay permanently this time.

-Psych

You have a habit of doing retarded things, such as competing in a GPD when you were arguably well into Masters and hadn't placed on SEA (though this is hardly new for GPD) and then mysteriously leaving half way through the finals because you didn't want to finish.

And sorry, no sympathy to anyone involved will be coming from me. I can understand people cheating in a tournament where they win money, but cheating in clan-wars makes so little sense that it's absolutely retarded. Especially when chances are you'll be found out.

Quick Comments

syfSoundwave:

Don't throw out dumb accusations. He got Masters on NA and SEA at around the same time, a couple weeks after that GPD.

[TragicHero]

Now now Titan... Let's not let feelings take over

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

LET HIM FEEL HIS FEELINGS!

[pXLight]

I've already posted this on Grim's blog but I'll put it here too, we (SR (Pretty much everyone but Grim and one other)) never wanted to even open up a BSG team. Just to keep the names of everyone else who was/is a part of sR clean, We had no interest in BSG and certainly not smurfing in BSG tournaments.

Quick Comments

AxS.Xenovia:

so just wanting to know, you aint blaming entire BSG brach right

[sRDante]

Originally Posted by sReKol

I've already posted this on Grim's blog but I'll put it here too, we (SR (Pretty much everyone but Grim and one other)) never wanted to even open up a BSG team. Just to keep the names of everyone else who was/is a part of sR clean, We had no interest in BSG and certainly not smurfing in BSG tournaments.

A lot (not all) of the original sR members disagreed to open this BSG section, reason being that some don't want a chatroom full of people asking for teamgames etc... Grim was being persistent with the bsg idea, thinking it would be a good transition to vN, and decided to create the division in the hands of antelope. The deal was we will limit the communication between the bsg division, but slowly things went out of hand as we were responsible to train and coach the bsg division. What I'm trying to say is that all this BSG smurfing really has nothing affiliated with the original sR team (excluding our leader...), I know it was still the same clan, but as eKol said, none of us payed interest to it, and knew nothing much about it. So please, I really don't want sR to die to the hands of a couple of shameful smurfers, the skype, the community overall made me view the game differently. Hate the player, don't hate the clan. >.< bigbootybitches.

Quick Comments

pXLight:

Way to 'out-post' me you ass :P

[AxS.Xenovia]

Originally Posted by sRDante

A lot (not all) of the original sR members disagreed to open this BSG section, reason being that some don't want a chatroom full of people asking for teamgames etc... Grim was being persistent with the bsg idea, thinking it would be a good transition to vN, and decided to create the division in the hands of antelope. The deal was we will limit the communication between the bsg division, but slowly things went out of hand as we were responsible to train and coach the bsg division. What I'm trying to say is that all this BSG smurfing really has nothing affiliated with the original sR team (excluding our leader...), I know it was still the same clan, but as eKol said, none of us payed interest to it, and knew nothing much about it. So please, I really don't want sR to die to the hands of a couple of shameful smurfers, the skype, the community overall made me view the game differently. Hate the player, don't hate the clan. >.< bigbootybitches.

im taking your post as "the main sR group got nothing, its all BSG fault" sorry if im interpreting it wrong but thats what it sounds like
you guys kept your deal. there was minimal communication with you guys, we only asked small questions and stuff. nothing major like coaching or any of that. im taking your post as "the main sR group got nothing with this, its all BSG fault" sorry if im interpreting it wrong but seriously? "Slowly out of hand"? so us talking to ourselves, and hell if know , no-one but Ante had any of your skypes that i know of. even if we did, im sure nothing came down to "lets ask ___ about what time this that" (once again this is to my knowledge so i may be wrong). I remember asking dream to play a monobattle ONCE with SouL and Ninja. oh and talking to GRiM for a review on my replay for cw vs FS. like hell you guys did training and coaching. I suggested to the BSG on skype lets to do this and that on sc2.(which we enver did lol) didnt hear any bull about "___ is gna coach you guys" i heard GRiM say it once. and ONCE.

never got any contact from anyone else about that matter. so please. dont say stuff like that.

(I acknowledge that i may be wrong in some cases but this is from my view point whilest in the BSG led by Ante)

Quick Comments

Antel0pe:

exactly what I wanted to say ekol

[pXLight]

Originally Posted by sRMoka

im taking your post as "the main sR group got nothing, its all BSG fault" sorry if im interpreting it wrong but thats what it sounds like
you guys kept your deal. there was minimal communication with you guys, we only asked small questions and stuff. nothing major like coaching or any of that. im taking your post as "the main sR group got nothing with this, its all BSG fault" sorry if im interpreting it wrong but seriously? "Slowly out of hand"? so us talking to ourselves, and hell if know , no-one but Ante had any of your skypes that i know of. even if we did, im sure nothing came down to "lets ask ___ about what time this that" (once again this is to my knowledge so i may be wrong). I remember asking dream to play a monobattle ONCE with SouL and Ninja. oh and talking to GRiM for a review on my replay for cw vs FS. like hell you guys did training and coaching. I suggested to the BSG on skype lets to do this and that on sc2.(which we enver did lol) didnt hear any bull about "___ is gna coach you guys" i heard GRiM say it once. and ONCE.

never got any contact from anyone else about that matter. so please. dont say stuff like that.

(I acknowledge that i may be wrong in some cases but this is from my view point whilest in the BSG led by Ante)

I know it's old news but anyway.
We weren't blaming the BSG people, just, no one was eager to have a BSG sect, and Grim went ahead on his own and did it anyway and look what happened. The first reason we didn't want it was yes, people asking for 2v2 etc being annoying chats, but that's minor. The main reason was previous accusations of smurfing tied to sR so we wanted to stay away from BSG as a whole, clearly temptation is too strong for Grim which is why why said no, he ignored, he fucked up, he gets punished, none of the members who joined via BSG's fault, we have no hard feelings against any of you/

[Cyanide]

Age does not absolve you from everything.

The lack of maturity, however, is evident in a few events recently. All part of the "growing up" process.

I've cheated at exams before, stolen erasers and pencils from the bookshop, nicked a few candies at the candy shop.

When you are much older, and you look back, you'll realize that it's not so much "he's just a kid', but more of 'he doesn't have the maturity to understand the consequences of such actions'.

So yeah, you get caught, accept the punishment and whatever heat that would be coming your way and move on as well as learn from it. If you are unrepentant and commit the same wrongdoings again, shame on you.

Regardless, you've learned a lesson, +0.0001 to maturing. One of many more life lessons that will shape who you are.

Quick Comments

Antel0pe:

once again, a great post. :) thanks for the input cyanide

[Shieldz]

lol i dont see a point of perm ban fsqwerty that just shows how stupid u are for wanting to perm ban if everone made a mistake and is perm banned/ never forgiven then this world wont really work properly.

Quick Comments

	OSPixel:	the more severe the punishment the less likely anyone else would do the same thing..
	breadfan:	How many murders get committed in the US each year, Qwerty, per capita? What about Aus?

[OSPixel]

I just feel the punishment should have been more severe, but i honestly do hope they "Grow" up a bit. Permanent ban from online tournaments (not lans) would of been better! but hey! nirvana is the boss and what he says goes!

/end of my rants

PS: Best of Luck to Antelope, Grim, and Psych hopefully you will learn something from this.

Quick Comments

	NOM:	**** no! Perma bans are stupid and ruin really good players
	Akilos:	Psych never learns -_-

[Antel0pe]

Originally Posted by FSQwerty

I just feel the punishment should have been more severe, but i honestly do hope they "Grow" up a bit. Permanent ban from online tournaments (not lans) would of been better! but hey! nirvana is the boss and what he says goes!

we're banned from all sc2sea tournaments, BSG, PD, wT Weekly Master Cup. Re-read the OP post please

Quick Comments

OSPixel:

i did read it, said you were banned for 3 months. small punishment in my opinion

[Antel0pe]

Originally Posted by sRAntelope

i did read it, said you were banned for 3 months. small punishment in my opinion

so do I, but I can't go begging for more punishment, yeh? I trust the sc2sea admins enough that they made the right decision for us.

[nirvAnA]

Just to add some perspective on the punishment not being "permanent"... yet.

Punishment should aim to accomplish two things:

1. Send a clear message this type of behaviour is wrong
2. Discourage such behaviour in future from others

Punishment should not:

1. Be so harsh to remove people from the clan, destroy a clan, force a player into retirement etc. The point is not to destroy/remove the offender/clan it is to correct their behaviour and discourage such behaviour.
2. This is not the same as chobo/seohyeon's punishment. As nemo said they were thieves. sR were doing dodgy shit but in a friendly clan war.

Obviously when its clear that the person is not going to repent, only then we talk about "permanent" and "indefinite" bans. In most cases such as forum bans, many chances are given first. That is the way it has always been, I think its reasonable enough. However, smurfing in lower league competitions especially is a very serious issue. We need to protect the spirit of fair competition and we cannot afford to be lenient there as such behaviour is detrimental to the whole scene and cannot be tolerated.

With that being said, there is also no need to go overboard. There is no need to jump ahead to the next stage and administer a punishment too serve such as an indefinite ban for now. And yea the message has already been sent and people should now be well aware of the consequences. Repeat offenders will be severely dealt with, permanently.

Quick Comments

	OSPixel:	Well said, thanks for that nirv!
	Antel0pe:	thanks for clearing things up Nirv
	Bash:	tyty
	Cube.Dione:	Well said.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Obviously when its clear that the person is not going to repent, only then we talk about "permanent" and "indefinite" bans. In most cases such as forum bans, many chances are given first. That is the way it has always been, I think its reasonable enough.

This was caught out the first time it happened. The people involved were warned, told they were being watched and were being given their chance. They still did it again. They've already received their chances to atone for things and improve, they chose to throw that away.

I assume that is why a lot of people think it's not harsh enough.

Quick Comments

	fray`Alpha:	yeah, doing it after being caught before AND being the leader of the clan
	x5.Revenant:	Didn't know this.

[FSBenAD]

Good post nirvana,

Its important they get punishment for their crimes definitely but it is also important that there is a way for them to atone for their mistakes and become better members of our community.

I really hope these guys have learnt their lesson, not only are their personal reputations ruined, but sR's reputation took a hit too. And that is really unfortunate and unfair on all the good members of sR who put the effort in and do the right thing.

I really wish sR all the best and I hope they can come back from this stronger. It will take some very good leadership and a lot of hard work, but I'd absolutely hate to see a clan die from the actions of a few (Even if Grim was their leader).

And please kids, think about what your doing. Winning isnt the only thing that matters. Most of the most popular and well loved people in this community, arent there because they win clan wars, tournaments and trophies, they are there because they work their ass off, they always are fair and even handed, and they are just bascailly awesome people. Emulate that and you'll go far

Quick Comments

	mGGNemesis:	This and nirvana's post sums it all so well :)
	FsDronesInJail:	If Ben and Nirv have babies it would be the perfect being....
	nirvAnA:	<3
	xGKingdelete:	well said
	Cube.Dione:	Where is the heart button? ^^v, well said ben.

[FsDronesInJail]

Originally Posted by Psych

As for now, I'm leaving Team Solarity for good. Hopefully I can find a place to stay permanently this time.

I don't think many clans will be willing to accept you anymore.....
Isn't sR like your 5th clan or something crazy like that?!

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	u dun chopped him gud
	Akilos:	it's true...and that ain't his 5th clan if you count the NA clans he joined
	syfSoundwave:	ToR > ETL > TCP > sR in addition to being on Cube
	RicocheT:	I heard loyalty is a good trait to have
	UHF:	So is finding happiness & comfort
	ToRSpartaz:	Want me to backtrack a wee bit? Cube -> ToR -> LgN -> ToR -> ETL -> TCP -> sR
	x5.Revenant:	This guy sounds so slutty.
	ChowMuddha:	^
	Cube.Dione:	so slutty right? What a baby. >.<

[deL]

ur poo heads

Quick Comments

	Antel0pe:	sorrry :/
	FS.Kezz:	So wise :P

[ToRSpartaz]

*Sigh* the actions of several individuals don't reflect the thoughts and feelings of the community. I have always stood by this ideal.

Despite a private apology from Grim the last time that it was drawn to my attention that sR have been conducting dodgy practice in their play. I believed that this apology was sincere and that Grim was serious in what he was trying to express towards me. He wanted to form positive relationships with the SEA clans, something that I hoped to believe.

I know a few of the sR guys personally and they are really good individuals the likes of Dream and Aequitas. I just hope from this point onwards you guys can work to re-brand Solarity into a force of good. To be friendly and positively reinforcing the relationships between the other SEA clans and communities. I wish you guys the best and carry on what your trying to achieve, communicate a shared vision of where you guys want to be heading and how you will go about it.

Good luck sR I hope you guys will be able to bring it back.

Quick Comments

	TAEdarus:	Manner
	ROCCAT_Savior:	That leonidus suit is supasxc
	sRDreaM:	^-^

[Akilos]

Mmmm...as much as I'd like to say that Antelope and Grim are a would be cancer things that need to be eliminated they ain't, they're young and well they'll learn from their mistakes.
UNLIKE Psych aka Clanhopper/"The Ungrateful One" who pretty much leaves a team without saying a word to the clan leader then joins another team then rinse and repeat he shows... no loyalty
and when I spoke to him in person about how he feels about being banned he felt "nothing" and that he doesn't care about it. (This is the cancer I feel should be truly...eliminated sadly.)

hey he may be good and he may suck up to you but in the end... he might just leave you in a week so yeah highly recommend not to take him. ><

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	lol ouch
	syfSoundwave:	I can confirm him leaving without saying a word to the clan leader.
	pulsePsych:	@Soundwave: I don't deny it.
	TCPLemminks:	what Soundwave said
	Antel0pe:	*they're young

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by TCPTitan

+ [Huge wall of Hate] +

Mmmm...as much as I'd like to say that Antelope and Grim are a would be cancer things that need to be eliminated their not, their young and well they'll learn from their mistakes.
UNLIKE Psych aka Clanhopper/"The Ungrateful One" who pretty much leaves a team without saying a word to the clan leader then joins another team then rinse and repeat he shows... no loyalty
and when I spoke to him in person about how he feels about being banned he felt "nothing" and that he doesn't care about it. (This is the cancer I feel should be truly...eliminated sadly.)

hey he may be good and he may suck up to you but in the end... he might just leave you in a week so yeah highly recommend not to take him. ><

Quick Comments

	Akilos:	I approve of this lol
	sRDreaM:	nice nice
	ToRSpartaz:	Sigh* Standaaard
	TAEdgE:	no end to your pictures marcus

[FsDronesInJail]

woops didnt mean to post

Quick Comments

sRDante:

I've seen many ways people use to get more posts, this one is quite unique.