[FSPYRo]

I'm not sure if I was just out of it tonight or something, but I just got romped by two zergs.

The main reason being I can't figure out what he's intending on building untill I actually see the units physically leaving the hatchery or the appropriate building being built (Mind you this is for all races). Usually by then I'm out by about 30sec-1min on what I should be producing to successfully make any form of an appropriate counter.

Take mass roach for instance. I would begin scouting with a probe, maybe see the roach warren pop out, and it's dead set obvious that he's getting at least some roaches. So I throw down a Robo to get a few immortal to counter, but by this time he already has a slight upper hand. I have a good idea of what counters what, but I have no way of really countering in advance because I can't see any defined build.

It's all a mess, and I get my ass handed to me because of it. But I wonder, is that just the way bronze league plays out?

Thanks in advance,
Zypher,

[ProAnnn]

In bronze you dont actually have to 'hard' counter units. Like if he make roaches, u can always make stalker(which are pretty good against roaches).

[FSPYRo]

Would a good idea be in the case of mass roach to build voidrays, along with whatever counters the counter for a voidray, or would the basic 4 gate composition be enough to cover for the rays??

[Cyanide]

If you are trying to tech to counter his units, i.e. Voidray/Immortal to counter roaches after seeing them, you are always going to be behind. You can never build those as fast as he can build roaches and he'll end up hitting you with more than you can handle.

Instead, use a better composition of your gateway units. Stalker/sentry/zealot, to split his forces etc.

[FSPYRo]

Ok, but see I'm still following in this situation. I want to try jump ahead in a way to bring the fight to him. I want him to be the one that needs to counter what I'm building.

EDIT: I think what I'm asking is how do you grasp an idea of what may be coming if he grabs a second gas at his main early on..?

[mGGAequitas]

in bronze i would suggest not worrying too much about what they are doing and just focus on your own macro.

if you macro well you could probably get to plat or diamond with just zealot stalker sentry.

+ [quick guide to macro] +

1. constantly make workers untill you have enough to saturate 3 bases or so
2. spend your money

[Blitz]

Masters protoss here. Stalker/sentry/immo off of FFE is very strong v zerg just need to have really good FFs to split his army in half. I'd suggest having a look for ST_Parting's PvZ, it uses immo/sentry/stalker and hits at around 10 minutes

in bronze i would suggest not worrying too much about what they are doing and just focus on your own macro.

This is exactly what you should be doing

[FSPYRo]

Okay, I'll go search that guy up, but as for the rest, I think I just need to practice more until I have better control regarding macro.

Thanks guys!

[AxS.Sorathez]

in bronze i would suggest not worrying too much about what they are doing and just focus on your own macro.

if you macro well you could probably get to plat or diamond with just zealot stalker sentry.

This. This is mainly because it's not uncommon in Bronze for players to build things and never use them.
They might, for example, go gas first but do a normal (but delayed) MMM push (as Terran, whereas this would normally indicate a banshee rush), or as zerg, go gas first, get speed and then go mass lings for a while, without taking drones off gas (which would indicate a baneling all-in) and so on.
As such it's not necessarily possible to discover what someone in Bronze is doing because of this.

As such, just pick a build (one for each matchup) learn it, and practise your macro

[FSPYRo]

Another piece of great advice! Thanks for putting it in those terms, it made me realise what I was asking. And as you said, I can never tell if I should be mining off one or two gas. I just add the extra if I think I will most likely need it, and that only ends up being 50% of the time.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by FaDeSorathez

This. This is mainly because it's not uncommon in Bronze for players to build things and never use them.
They might, for example, go gas first but do a normal (but delayed) MMM push (as Terran, whereas this would normally indicate a banshee rush), or as zerg, go gas first, get speed and then go mass lings for a while, without taking drones off gas (which would indicate a baneling all-in) and so on.
As such it's not necessarily possible to discover what someone in Bronze is doing because of this.

As such, just pick a build (one for each matchup) learn it, and practise your macro

This is awesome advice. In saying that, I don't think it's ever too early to develop good habits. So when you send your scout, check to see if he has gas. Now, if he does, don't read into it too much for the reasons Sorathez says. He could be doing literally anything.

However, if you scout no gas (rarer in bronze iirc) then there is suddenly a bunch of stuff that he can't have. So if he's zerg for example, he could make a tonne of slow zerglings, but not banelings or roaches. My suggestion would be to treat it purely as information at this stage. Stick with your own plan and just try to build an army as best you can. But, see if you can predict in-game what he can and can't have, and then see if you were right, or if he got them, how much later? This is laying a foundation for the skills that will start to become important as you get promoted.

[FsDronesInJail]

just get immortals + sentries. It kills zergy stuff

[TheGentleman]

What FaDeSorathez says is very solid advice. If you do get into the habit of scouting however (not a bad habit rather a very good habit) you can start to learn what is possible.

For example: If you see no gas obviously your opponent can't be going gas units. I think the important thing to remember when scouting is learning what your opponent can't be doing and building around that. E.g. No Dark Shrine = No Dark Templar. No Hive = No Broodlords. No Armoury = No Thors. No Gas = only Marines and SCV's, etc...

[FSPYRo]

This thread has become filled with juicy goodness!!

[Shieldz]

in bronze just learn 1 base macro and 4 gate or 3 gate pressure dont bother expanding if u cant even 1 base macro properly

[Zanderax]

In low leagues all you need to do is choose your favorite units and mass up. Blink Stalkers are a really good choice and they will never expire. No matter how high you get you will always need to know how to use blink stalkers

[QEDjuslai]

just check the gas if he gets gas then u better def up brotoss

[TCPKerO]

I'm going to echo what a lot of the others have mentioned.

MACRO = #1

I'm in gold and if I had focused more on macro earlier(back when I was bronze) I think i would be a lot more solid now.

If you are looking for ways to win in Bronze get more stuff, up to like gold more stuff will give you a huge advantage over the majority of players.

JaKataK is a fine gentleman who has devised a strategy to learning from the ground up which is even useful for top pros.

Give him a look up and try his macro play ideology you will be amazed how quickly you start beating silvers.

[FaDe'Shampoo]

can usually tell what he's making by the timing of his gas, if your really worried about this no scouting issue then either get hallucinate or go for a robo build =)

[Baldie]

Basically up to gold maybe plat too even if you do an absolutely atrocious engagement you generally are still in the game/may even be able to win purely on your ability to macro during engagements.

Macro is fundamentally important however I think one of the biggest issues with lower leagues is not the concept of macro, rather the ability to build while engaging in another task be that a drop or a head on engagement.

That and upgrades (although less important than macro).

E.G I am in high silver atm and vs'ed a high plat toss a few days ago. Got absolutely smashed with a storm timing but managed to hold based on my macro whilst engaging. I scouted his 4th behind the push so I should have been basically dead. However I just continued to macro and expand and even though he was on 4 base to my 3 for a lot of time and I was behind I just eventually overwhelmed him with my 3/3 vs his 1/1.