[stronK]

hey guys, recently ive been vsing alot of zergs who have been doing the stepahano build where you're maxed out at 12 mins and honestly i dont' know what to do. i lost 10 games in a row and went from 2nd in gold to 13th. its fustrating

[Stallion]

Immortals.

[stronK]

believe me i had 4/5 immortals and i still lost.

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by stronK

believe me i had 4/5 immortals and i still lost.

Could be just poor macro. Could also be poor engagements. It would probably help if you posted some replays.

[Stallion]

ok an actual reply then. How are you opening what are you getting to your expand?

Hows your macro? look at all these things,: constant probe production and never supply blocking.

Get 7 gates and a robo off 2 bases. Get 3 immortals then into colossus as you take a 3rd. This is what i do off a stargate opening and I suck with a stargate openign atm and works so should be fine.

Your main issues are most likely in mechanics and opening builds. If they are maxed you should have either done a push and got to 3 base or done some form of harrassment. Either way aim to get to 3 base and put a few cannons up to help with defend. you want 6 sentrys to be able to forcefield out and help you win any fight. If you lose using this type of opening it means your skills are lacking in a department and need to improve them. If this doesn't help upload a replay and il point out some places to improve

Quick Comments

MooZfY:

[FLuX]

Hey stronk, I recommend posting a few replays here of the games so we have a better point of reference

Generally, you'll see a protoss player FFE in a PvZ, right? This means that (typically) the Zerg player is forced to do one of two things. They can either A) Take a quick third, or B) Perform a bust off two base (usually with roaches).

I'm going to assume that the players you're vsing are doing A), as this seems to be the common response. (you should always check for the third, either with a probe or zealot after your FFE is complete).

The common way that I have seen from protoss players to deal with the 12 minute roach timing as a protoss player. You can throw down a quick robo and chrono some immortals pumping out, usually 4 is enough to hold off the roaches. Note that you almost certainly will need sentries vs the roaches for forcefields to cut his army in half and take it apart in smaller portions. This is basically the main way I have seen protoss deal with the Stephano ZvP style. I've seen protoss players sometimes mix in stargate units (VR's, ~4 phoenixes) to harass the zerg player's eco early game and delay his max roach army long enough to get enough units to hold.

You don't want to engage somewhere where you don't have the advantage, which is why forcefields MUST be used to cut him in half. Also, have an observer with your army always; if his roaches have burrow (they most likely will) then you will be in a lot of trouble.

Hoped this helped, I'm doing this from the perspective of a gold zerg player so I don't really have the build orders or anything but this is the general idea for what you want.

Stalkers/Immortals/Sentries/Zealots.

GLHF!

Quick Comments

mGGSouth:

[Tshu]

you should post replays so people can help

[SanG]

sentries are awesome i hear

[mopy]

My approach to this fast no gas 3 base zerg style is to take a fast third myself. My build involves, expanding after i have 4 +1 zealots and 1 void ray, and using them to push the zerg back into his base.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

lol, watched the replay and was confused when protoss won, then realised you aren't op

[TNSkywolve]

hey pal,

Like they said. Go immortal heavy n some gw units..usually ur units positioning makes the diff..if ur opp gets brw roaches try using sentries, force field them and force the roaches to burrow..do it decently and ur immortals can pick those burrowed roaches off fairly well.. another thing is micro..1 immortal take about 3-4shots to kill a roach..thus 4 immortals can definitely 1 hit kill a roach.. anyway train hard play hard dude..

oh send a probe or whatever to scout for your opp 3rd base..usually @ 5-6mins mark I guess..

GL HF! ^-^

[Theend]

Originally Posted by stronK

hey guys, recently ive been vsing alot of zergs who have been doing the stepahano build where you're maxed out at 12 mins and honestly i dont' know what to do. i lost 10 games in a row and went from 2nd in gold to 13th. its fustrating

If anyone can do a proper Stephano Ilyes Satouri - 일리예스 사토우리 (not stepahano ,no A after P) built , there is a high chance they will be in higher league . Pls do not BM my zerg hero =(.

[Trusty]

Read this thread, although I'm pretty sure most of it doesn't apply to gold level, and you should just focus on getting your current build more refined:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=320894

TL;DR for the thread; everyone has been dying to this style, and sitting on 2base waiting for collosus is not the answer (he's not going to go through with 200/200 if you're still on 2base). You will find inside the thread some nice fast 3rd builds, that are very difficult to pull off correctly, and I don't think they'd be doing you much good at gold level.

[Statix]

you need to harass quickly the 3rd with 4-5 zealots cos it gets me everytime and dont let macro slip to get the slatkers and collossus

[mGGAequitas]

i tend to play my pvz's like combatex and get my expansions soon after the zerg does, get fast halluc and just build a good composition against what you scout the zerg doing.



for us to help you more you are gonna need to upload a replay

[neKo]

It's actually really simple, just do a 2 base all Immortal/6-7gate (I don't know how many you can support) off 2 base with EXTREMELY HEAVY sentries, I'm talking 10+ sentries. Beating mass/roachling is all about forcefields and good engagements.

Quick Comments

	FLuX:	This works too, such a bitch when I have to deal with this
	mGGMueX:	This is my current favorite PvZ build, I find 7 gates is precisely what you can support.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by cRneko

It's actually really simple, just do a 2 base all Immortal/6-7gate (I don't know how many you can support) off 2 base with EXTREMELY HEAVY sentries, I'm talking 10+ sentries. Beating mass/roachling is all about forcefields and good engagements.

Bad advice cause any other type of allins also works

If you want to go 3 base macro against stephano style, i suggest you read this thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=327905

A brief summary of that thread is
7 factors to defend that roach spam
1. Scouting : Scouting that roach spam is important because if u prepare for it and he went mutas, you are half screwed
2. Sim City : Walling with your gateways so that you can use lesser forcefields and cannons less vulnerable to roaches helps ALOT
3. Cannons: Cannons are really cheap for the dps they do against roach (Actually its just that stalker dps plain sucks)
4. Forcefields : Don't overspam your forcefields on 1 same position. FF to split the army. It is actually the most important and deciding factor in defending this attack
5. Unit Composition : Did you get immortals/VRs? Or blink stalkers? If non of the above, you are probably dead.
6. Macro : Did you add enough gateways to spend your money? You dont want to be floating money when the attack comes cause you need as many units as possible to hold the attack.
7. Army positioning : Are you positioned at a location where it has a pretty tight choke and you can use lesser forcefields? Are you in a position where you can handle multipronged attack easily?

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	EXCL:	That TL post is very useful :)

[Jaywalk]

3 gate expand, fast halluc, scout roach only, make only immortal/stalker with 6 sentries. take a 3rd when u can, max a bit later with a much better unit composition, dont move out of your base till maxed.

[nGenLight]

Nice summary, add in posturing and early aggression.

[reDDevil]

I also get owned by this build.

[Jules_]

I'm a high masters zerg and have trouble executing the macro required to do whats required to play this style. Gold league zergs will max out slow. I guarantee if you clear the watchtowers with a zealot and do that 3 zealot poke at his third in gold league you buy yourself 3-5 minutes more time.

Improving mechanics (probes & pylons) at gold league (and probably up to GM?) not unit composition would help the most imo.

[Next_rim]

My approach to this fast no gas 3 base zerg style is to take a fast third myself. My build involves, expanding after i have 4 +1 zealots and 1 void ray, and using them to push the zerg back into his base.

Watched the replays. How would you respond to a July-style ling-bling with your stargate opening?

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

I think the question should be less, how do I beat a massive roach army as I take my third? and more, how do I stop a zerg from getting a massive roach army and attacking just as I am taking my third?

The answer is to be constantly pressuring. At your level, you don't even need to do that, if you just go for standard 4 gate +1 pressure off a forge fast expansion you will probably kill the zergs third base, delaying that sort of pressure for a long time.

[sudragon]

try to harrass early. around the 8min mark. this will force them to cut drones for awhile

[Zealo]

2 base 3 stargate void ray

[Dumbledore]

Check this thread out:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=337516
:P

[Statix]

my silver zerg level 2 cents is i seem to die with zealots . . mass zealots, immortal pushes are hard as well if you nail it in timings and can macro behind it (proxy needed)

also dont go ffe! my head scrambled if i have to do a game NOT against an FFE,

[Pox]

Some good advice already in this thread... I'd say you have a few options:

- 4 gate zealot pressure. This hits before the zerg has finished droning, and if they don't prepare for it you can kill a lot of drones or even their third hatchery. Ultimately the goal is just to delay their 3base economy as long as posible. Behind it, you probably want to be pumping immortals and sentries (go to 4 gas after you make the gates) in preparation to take a third.

- 8gate / zealot dance party. Same timing as the 4gate, but mine less gas and go crazy allin. This can be really hard to stop even if you know it's coming. Just keep warping in zealots (and I reccommend mining just enough gas for 6-7 stalkers) and try to kill them.

- No early pressure, just go straight to a robo and 4 gas. Build up sentries and immortals, then make some gates and stay in your natural until you have 6+ sentries. You can either make LOTS of gates and go allin with this as neko said, or just take a third. With the sentry and immortal count you should be able to defend roach aggression easily with forcefields. If you do decide to attack with, you need to be very careful about engagements - the zerg will likely have an army lead on you, so you have to leverage forcefields really well and stick to choked areas for fights.

Good luck with it. If your opponent really was maxed out at 12 minutes, based on your league I'd say he was just outmacroing you.

Quick Comments

DUCKVILLELOL:

[DUCKVILLELOL]

I generally open DTs, and despite what people think you can do some good work with them, and it puts you in a good spot for mid game "lolmax roach".

However I've seen lately that everyone (especially the SCBW players in Proleague now playing SC2) go for that 4gate robo sentry/immo > 3rd base style. Seems very safe and with proper control and FF usage you can secure the third and be safe against the 'stephano effect' as I like to call it. Speaking of which, anyone got any good reps of that for me to have a look at?

[TCPGunter]

im only silver but i like to do my own expands which helps me produce a lot more units to hold stephano as long as i dont screw up my force fields it doesnt stop it all the time but at the moment its majority of the time it may be because im silver league btu i dont know.