After the ACL Gold Coast event, we reached out to the community for your suggestions with regards to improving the quality and clarity of our commentary. Over the last few weeks, you guys have had the opportunity to hear myself, Doble and Maynarde commentating various times. So we'd like to poll the SEA community to encapsulate your thoughts and see if we've improved in the suggested target areas, and receive further direction as we continue to grow.
Thanks in advance! We look forward to presenting the most enjoyable & highest quality viewing experience in Australia.
I usually like all three duo's (maynarde doble/dox doble/dox maynarde) but today was a tad boring, idk, might just be cuz I was already bored or the games were a tad slow but yea. You are all getting better and better and like I said I usually like all of you, GC was great.
i like doxnarde the most, you two seem to have more synergy as a bro-couple and Dox's insight into the game really shows through, and Maynarde's dulcet tones just.. sound really good? idk, aside from being good at this, you just really have the voice for it.
Also (Doble in particular, you two havent done it so much) Plug your personal twitter a little less, sponsors im 110% fine with hearing about (Although telling me about the sponsor a little as well as their name would be nice) , but hearing"you can follow me at ______ and you can follow this guy at ______" every 30 minutes is a little much in my opinion.
Other than that all seems to have improved alot, you guys are getting pretty damn good at this ^_^
I think Maynarde needs to be less manly, he makes me feel insecure about my own masculinity and therefore I think he should be made to wear a pretty dress while casting.
I think Maynarde needs to be less manly, he makes me feel insecure about my own masculinity and therefore I think he should be made to wear a pretty dress while casting.
He gave me a handshake at the last arena lan. I think I felt the same.
Only listened to the DobNarde today. Both are really good in speaking and not umming, etc. and having the right audio levels, etc. The only, minor, comment I could make is to sound more positive about what players are doing when you dont agree with it. I think it only happened once that I heard something like "I do know if I agree with person X getting a spine here", Something like... "Person X is getting a spine here, so that will mean that any hellion run-bys won't do any damage." That wasn't the exact example, but the only thing I can think of. Basically just coming up with reasons why something might be good whenever possible. Keeping the mood positive. The higher level analysis that can come from a co-caster would be nice as well, but not something I think the DobNarde should try to do. Never heard DoxNarde, will have to keep an ear out.
Ok im not trying to be a douche here this is just how i feel.
The commentry on the ACL events doesnt get me excited unless maynarde is casting I just feel the rest of the time the other casters are more just telling you what is happening. The thing that I really like about Maynarde is he may not have amazing game knowledge but he makes every battle sound life or death. This though generally gets pulled down by just telling us about what we can see. When I watch the big events the main thing that determines for me if a caster is really good to watch is if I'm constantly listening to his commentary because I find it entertaining or amusing.
The other thing I'd like to note is the down times in the game. These bits I feel are the area that most needs improving on as something like gsl with tastosis where we are entertained by either some crazy out of the game goings on or some deep analysis of the game about what can happen and what can't because of certain things this is something I think zepph does better than anyone atm so I'd suggest watching some of her casts. This Maynarde is where i think you need to most improve (play more )
Also camera work on ACL I feel needs improving. When you are the camera man you need to be checking the minimap for actions constantly. As a viewer there is nothing worse than missing the action. I also know Doble is commentating and controlling the camera which is really hard and because of that I feel that although this seems quite harsh on him I still think it has to be noted he does a very good job with how much pressure is on him. Even so the point remains because to me one of the main things I like to view is how are they engaging, are they putting a sacrifical unit out front to take a few tank blows so the main of there army has a bit more hp? little things like that are what as a viewer I love to see.
Also a little suggestion from me for between games would be to have the group scores up rotating through on the overlay so we can get up to date scores without having to leave the page etc. and gives chat something to talk about. That's a tiny thing though.
Sorry If my ideas aren't worded clearly I've been doing this through a boring lecture so had to look away a few times :P. Also I don't mean to come across harsh that's just the things I think can be improved on from what I saw/heard
Thanks, some good ideas in there! I guess it's also worth mentioning that we'll pretty much always have inFeZa controlling the camera for us for major events, and he's astoundingly good at it.
So im gonna try a compliment sandwich for this ^_^
Watching bits a pieces of Doble/Maynarde of the last weekend Ive noticed a big improvement in both casting quality and the chemistry between the casting duo, Maynarde/Dox has a great chemistry and the perfect mix of Play by Play and Game Knowledge.
Things to improve
Dox- I find when duo casting you can be a little monotonous, when watching you stream ladder/ random games this isnt the case, this is a little more noticeable when casting with Maynarde and wasnt so much the case when casting with Paz.
Doble- Try plug your twitter alot less it does it a little annoying, if people want to follow you they will, constantly mentioning it only makes people want to follow you less if you want followers make a game of it tell viewers that yourself and co caster are having a competition the one with the most followers gets treated to a steak dinner by the other person etc Also could just me but try to limit the "Dad Jokes" some are funny but like the twitter plugs too many can be irritating.
Maynarde- not much pretty decent play by play caster, I find at times you seem to talk about players like yang and Edge alot, for people who arent aware of your relation with the players (like viewers outside of SEA) they may see this as bias.
All in All the boys have all come a long way since the first time they casted and Im sure youll continue to improve, GLHF looking forward to meeting you in ACL Sydney
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[07-10, 22:00] PiG Unfortunately I'm incredibly lazy so most of my video footage is just me and iaguz in bed
Dox- I find when duo casting you can be a little monotonous, when watching you stream ladder/ random games this isnt the case, this is a little more noticeable when casting with Maynarde and wasnt so much the case when casting with Paz.
Thanks for this, it's something I've been really worried about for a long time. I always find it difficult to listen to myself in VOD's because i sound like I'm just droning on in the same lifeless tone. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. And yeah, it really does come down to how my personality meshes with my co-caster. Paz and I have been close friends and housemates for nearly a decade, so we're a lot more relaxed and comfortable together. When I cast with others, I tend to interrupt them and talk over the top of them a LOOOT. Really bothers me that I do this. Also, I was fatigued as hell on this most recent weekend particularly, having slept only like 3 hours the whole time I was in Sydney lol. Cheers for the feedback!
I find at times you seem to talk about players like yang and Edge alot, for people who arent aware of your relation with the players (like viewers outside of SEA) they may see this as bias.
Hey Chris thanks for the feedback on all players Just for a bit of clarity here, I do definitely have my favourite players but consciously make an effort not to cast biased! Hopefully that comes across when the action kicks into gear, but in the early game (in my opinion) you need to fill the lack of action with SOMETHING. Whether it be banter or analysis of the plays / players.
EdgE is a player I've watched play many times at local LANs and we talk fairly often, so I know a lot about him and like to give people insight on what to expect from the players. Obviously I haven't been casting very long, and have only just recently started to learn traits of other SEA players. For instance with yang as you mentioned, I know he will almost always FFE against Zerg, Mafia will drone forever, Rossi will 1 rax expand, (etc etc).
I do appreciate the feedback and I'll make sure that if I'm talkin' about one guy I better have something to say about the other too so it balances out better. Good point
Try plug your twitter alot less it does it a little annoying
I must agree with this, but will go further to say it's most likely a nervous compulsion to talk about your twitter in the down time between games or at slow periods in the game. This again, will be solved by deeper game knowledge and better chemistry between the casters. What you should be talking about between games, as Stallion suggested, is the game to come and/or the game passed, with additional humours banter between the casters. During the slow start of the game, you can talk about map specific's and discuss potential strategies that my result due to the particular map (this also helps all the noobies out there that haven't worked out how each of the maps can effect the strategies - this will come from playing more and casting more high level games. So stick at it, you guys will be great! ^_^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter
players like yang and Edge alot, for people who arent aware of your relation with the players (like viewers outside of SEA) they may see this as bias.
I don't see how this could be considered bias... Casters always have their favourite players - watch GSL and Artosis will often tell you about his favourite players. I think the trick is being open about it but not blunt or negative to players that aren't your favourites. It's quite acceptable for Maynarde to say, 'Ohh, now we have a game between EdgE and yang - my favourite zerg vs my 2nd favourite Protoss' (2nd to ChadMann, obviously ) - they are entitled to their opinion and talking about the players as though the casters know them gives the players personality rather than being left as an enigma...
Best of luck Dox/Maynarde/Doble - pretty if you guys can nail the suggestions in this thread you'll be flying over to Korea to replace Tastosis...
EDIT:
Also, if the only obs in the games are the casters and a streamer - for example, inFeZa is streaming and obsing with Maynarde and Doble casting - set inFeZa as Ref and the other casters as spectators, then if the casters want to communicate between each other, they can... say, Maynarde notices something and Doble is talking about the game.... Maynarde can send Doble a message in Spectators chat (that won't come up on the stream) asking for a moment of the mic time, then Doble can wrap up what he is saying and allow Maynarde time to deliver his point... rather than having one try and talk over the other... or as a reminder to each other, to give a shout out to the sponsors or to stop talking about their twitter pages.. :P
I just wanted to say what Chadmann said about map specifics is a great point. This is something players up to grandmasters even won't notice little things on a map such as on MLG tda i believ it is that has the low ground between the main and the 3rd so reapers and blink stalkers can go into the main another way.
I just wanted to say what Chadmann said about map specifics is a great point. This is something players up to grandmasters even won't notice little things on a map such as on MLG tda i believ it is that has the low ground between the main and the 3rd so reapers and blink stalkers can go into the main another way.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that little ramp thing is removed from the Blizzard Version of TDA
Casters making sure they are paying attention to the game. There were a few times when the main caster was on another screen typing something for quite a lenghty period with the camera sitting in FoW, while the co-caster was still calling action.
Also, if the situation arises if someone is solo casting, they need to keep the casting going, or at least keep talking about something. A few times (especially early game) there were long quiet periods which were a bit awkward.
Yeah - but it wouldn't be hard for a top pro to give you guys a bit of info on some of the match ups and how particular maps effect them - for you guys to have at hand to talk about during the down time on maps - and even use as a cheat sheet when you're discussing what strategies might be employed on the map.. just prepare yourself with as much info on maps and match ups and go from there.. Like Terran's taking a fast third on Antiga or the siege position under the natural on Tal'Darim - and how spawning in particular positions is favourable for either race in the match up..
This is specifically for the online tournament casting. My advice is that you may have to increase the casting roster. (and as much as i would love this to be an attempt at trying to cast for acl ITS NOT).
Quite simply your online games the other day i tuned in late for the Maynard doble cast and Maynard in particular seemed a little vague and over fluffy in his comments. And from what little i know becoming vague and traveling off topic often goes hand in hand with just being tired or over starring at SC2 (impossible i know we are all so passionate).
Even if this is merely having a stand by fill in to cover one set here or there as you both get up walk around, Grab a drink or something like that. When you look at tournaments which go for the whole day such as IPL or MLG breaks are given quite often, and even players are used for these breaks to shake it up and wake you all up.
Truth be told 90% of the time i love all the casters ACL use and love the casting, these were just a few ideas i had to ensure long particular online casting sessions don't get vague,, for lack of a better word.
Quite simply your online games the other day i tuned in late for the Maynard doble cast and Maynard in particular seemed a little vague and over fluffy in his comments. And from what little i know becoming vague and traveling off topic often goes hand in hand with just being tired or over starring at SC2 (impossible i know we are all so passionate)
Can you elaborate for me man? Was I stammering? Making bad calls? Going off topic too much? If it's the latter I'll be sure to improve on it.
I stammered and had "disjointed" sentences sometimes especially during the start of the cast because we basically had complications using a program called "Mumble" to cast with. Skype is commonly used by a lot of people and is easy enough but the issue with it is when you talk and someone else is talking the volume auto corrects to have the previous speaker drowned out.
In my headset, I had whatever was coming out on the stream. Doble, his doof doof AND myself. But with a 1 second delay. So basically, whenever I said something it would come back in my headset 1 second later and it completely did my head in. I messed up entire sentences and completely forgot what I was saying more than once because of the repeating audio. This is due to Doble only currently having one audio card, but he is getting a second and will be able to let whoever is co-casting have their own audio stream next time.
I was also using push to talk, which I'm not used to. This is because if my mic was live, due to the single soundcard + mumble setup, the audio would start a feedback loop if I didn't de-activate it after I stopped speaking. Also I think my headset volume was too high, which was coming through the mic as well.
Basically saying if it's the disjointed sentence / stammering / forgetting what I was saying thing; won't happen again. BUT if you're saying I go off topic or make bad calls please say so and give examples as that is something I can definitely strive to improve on.
Can you elaborate for me man? Was I stammering? Making bad calls? Going off topic too much? If it's the latter I'll be sure to improve on it.
When i say vague i mean you went off topic and spoke of random things neither on the map or unrelated to the players playing at the time. And to me it really sounded that you were tired and having trouble focusing just on the match, the more tired you get the harder to remain focused on one particular thing and not get distracted.. I wouldn't stress about your casting itself;f as i said i only noticed it late into the cast and only by refreshing yourself or other such methods can it be prevented. The actual casting itself;f was top notch.
I do occasionally watch games on stream, despite having little to no game knowledge.
I enjoy Maynarde's voice, it's ever so soothing. He does animate his voice quite well when it comes to the action making it even more fun to watch. More info on players, maps, strategy etc will come in time no doubt.
Doble has definitely improved from ACL GC. Talks a bit too fast sometimes. Defs need to pull back on the Twitter plugging and more info on the sponsors would be nice when they're mentioned. I like the chemistry between Doble and Maynarde, they've come a long way.
Dox darling you're a bit hard to hear sometimes, mostly due to your deep and gravely tone. Also because you seem to speak a bit quietly. And yeah, a bit monotone so more animation in your voice would be great. Excellent game knowledge, I don't feel so completely out of the loop when watching.
I'm a total noob in the world of SC2 so the more info that's provided the better. But better explained than what I've seen so far. It'd help more than just the noobs, everyone's hungry for detail. Camera work needs to be improved as well, hopefully inFeZa is as good as previously mentioned.
You need to inject a caster that has general knowledge about the game but is exciting.
Someone that can jump around and scream about the action that's going on.
Someone that casts like me :P
Because I think at this stage you have 3 nice analytic casters, but no one to really ramp up the audience and get the blood pumping in a big engagement.
imo
You need to inject a caster that has general knowledge about the game but is exciting.
Someone that can jump around and scream about the action that's going on.
Someone that casts like me :P
Because I think at this stage you have 3 nice analytic casters, but no one to really ramp up the audience and get the blood pumping in a big engagement.
imo
Id say Dox is analytic and Maynarde pumps up the crowd and the doble is a bit of both so i think they have a good balance as it is but a 4th caster (maybe a local per event) could be worth it as gives you guys more of a breather and can work in teams. Also there are some excellent caster in australia atm that fly under the radar. System , Flamga, Zepph and Benji could all be excellent 4th casters added in depending on where you/they are.
Actually this is something I want to touch on and only just remembered about it.
Starboard guys, seriously, it is one of the most important thing to have when casting an event with Bo3 and above. For Bo1 it isn't too much of an issue, and a simple CTRL+N can solve that, but tuning in late, you have no idea what the score is at or anything like that.
It is also very lightweight and takes only seconds to set up.
Also, how come you guys were using Mumble? Just mainly curious as to this decision, why not Skype? Was there limitations with the software?
You need to inject a caster that has general knowledge about the game but is exciting.
Someone that can jump around and scream about the action that's going on.
Someone that casts like me :P
Because I think at this stage you have 3 nice analytic casters, but no one to really ramp up the audience and get the blood pumping in a big engagement.
imo
Mate ACL already have a herp derp lookit the fireworks and blood caster. I'm right here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by System
Actually this is something I want to touch on and only just remembered about it.
Starboard guys, seriously, it is one of the most important thing to have when casting an event with Bo3 and above. For Bo1 it isn't too much of an issue, and a simple CTRL+N can solve that, but tuning in late, you have no idea what the score is at or anything like that.
It is also very lightweight and takes only seconds to set up.
Also, how come you guys were using Mumble? Just mainly curious as to this decision, why not Skype? Was there limitations with the software?
I completely agree with the Starboard thing, good point! Will make sure it's there for the next cast this weekend.
Re: the Mumble thing. I forgot why, Doble prefers it. I believe it's because of the auto-volume adjust thing that Skype does when you've got two people talking at once, and it can't be turned off. The streamers voice will always be fine, but the co-caster gets drowned out on the call when the streamer talks.
I think it wasn't on ACLPro2 stream though, perhaps on yours it was I didn't see
Quote:
Originally Posted by System
I think it might be settings in Xsplit as well that needs tuning to fix this issue as well, but there is also a simple fix to it all, don't talk over each other :P
Cool I'll look into it, never noticed! Not talking over eachother is tough when there's a few seconds delay it's gonna happen! On Skype there is at least 1 second before what you say comes through on the other guy's end. Always make an effort not to though.
Mumble has a really good delay (low) compared to all other VoIP programs.
Maybe I'm just to used to FPS casters, when watching ACL myself I didn't find myself getting really excited over the casting in big engagements like I do in CS/CSS/BF2/CoD4 when someone gets some nice frags (I'm talking about FPS Audio only too, so I can't even see the frags myself).
I completely agree with the Starboard thing, good point! Will make sure it's there for the next cast this weekend.
Dox told me this last time T.T
@Dox, you have but get Doble on it as well - Since he is running the ACL Twitch stream, which is the main port of call for the events
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynarde
Re: the Mumble thing. I forgot why, Doble prefers it. I believe it's because of the auto-volume adjust thing that Skype does when you've got two people talking at once, and it can't be turned off. The streamers voice will always be fine, but the co-caster gets drowned out on the call when the streamer talks.
I think it might be settings in Xsplit as well that needs tuning to fix this issue as well, but there is also a simple fix to it all, don't talk over each other :P
Personally though, I would of preferred small washed out sound when there are two people talking, than an echo
why not Skype? Was there limitations with the software?
Maynarde has issues with Skype randomly changing his voice volume when the game loads...
Muble is a horrible option tho, it has loads of lag and delay - better off with Team Speak or something....?
Also, @Mayo- Maynarde and Doble are not analytical casters - they are both play by play casters.. Analytical casters would be, Zepph and Dox.. perhaps... good casting duo needs one of each tho..
Maynarde has issues with Skype randomly changing his voice volume when the game loads...
Muble is a horrible option tho, it has loads of lag and delay - better off with Team Speak or something....?
Nah I don't have that issue anymore with Skype (thanks breadfan!) would be happy to use it.
Basically what I wanted was more "CYA MAAATE" but RTS style (See: Excitement and skin tingling)
I understand exactly what you mean, but it is hard to bring this kind of excitement to SC2.
FPS is action and frags - minimal stratergy (I know about strat calling for CSS and playing eco and such) but it mainly comes down to the frags.
The hugest hype thing you can see in a FPS game is someone coming back 1v5 clutch and defusing.
How can this be portrayed in SC2?
Early game you lose 20 workers to Hellions, still win the game via strategic play that is hard to spot to the caster, and goes way in depth to game play or just luck on positioning.
(The latter can still bring some hype)
Would also be sick to see some guest casting from players.. I know Pinder has amazing game sense as is an awesome caster.. I'm sure having other players like, PiG or iaguz giving their insights into their game knowledge by guest casting would be amazing!..
Would also be sick to see some guest casting from players.. I know Pinder has amazing game sense as is an awesome caster.. I'm sure having other players like, PiG or iaguz giving their insights into their game knowledge by guest casting would be amazing!..
I like this idea for LANs. For online stuff it's a bit harder though (especially if we keep using Mumble).
Perhaps instead of "Hey Dudes! Follow me at" when things are at a lull maybe ask the audience a question and ask for their answers @yourtwitter... things like:
"who do you want to see with this round?" or
"what did you think of SonSo's last engagement?"
That way you are stimulating the audience to do something during these quiet times and you can use their answers and insight as things to talk about during the game set-ups or initial mining periods. Reward those who make the effort with 15 seconds of stream fame via mentioning their name and you have a pretty good way to get people following you and making the stream chatter a little more interesting.
I actually didn't see that much today as I was focusing on my play today but from what I saw I noticed a sizeable improvement from last time for which nice Maynarde and Doble it was a pleasure to watch your cast today. As far as improvement goes I don't think I saw enough to give a valuable contribution so I'll remain quiet for once :P.
I listened to Maynarde and doble cast the ACL games today, (Deth& Pinder, and Mafia&Tgun I think?) and I gotta say I thought it was good. Not perfect, but pretty close.
The two of you work well as a pair, even if doble gets a little distracted from time to time.
I particularly liked your casting Maynarde, I thought that you did a good job of highlighting the exciting moments, and building off that (those were some cool Bane Vs Bane wars!) and you went so far as to explain (in brief) WHY that was cool. Which I think is very good for casual players who maybe don't know so much about the game.
I noticed that Arnor mentioned you talk alot about the SEA player base, and while I agree with him that outsiders may view this as bias, I think its bloody brilliant! It's exactly the kinda shit you should be plugging, get our boys names out there and show the damn world that we will not be overlooked. We have a wealth of talent in this region and the world needs to know! So keep at it, or even...
Give em a bit more, if you could grab a little info on the players your casting, in the down time, or when games are moving slowly, etc, you could inform the not-so-informed viewers of the players recent accomplishments?
(no hard feelings Arnor, I meant no offense)
doble I didn't mind, although at times he didn't seem as excited about what was happening as I felt he should have been. Although that isnt to say he was like that all the time, I did only watch 4 - 5 games...
I get the impression he isn't a SC2 player? Correct me if I'm wrong though?
And unfortunately I missed Ol' superman's casting, so I can't comment on that, Im sure you killed it though Dox.
/2c
Sorry if it was a bit blunt.
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The Zerg formerly known as [TA]Ridiculisk.500
TAhackdZ.379
The only thing I dislike about watching the stream is there can be a lot of downtime between games. I'm not exactly sure how to remedy this however, but maybe just have the casters shooting the shit and answering stuff and rather than just having the blank acl screen? Or perhaps rather than jumping around series so you get out of loop follow the 1 player for a bit perhaps? Like I said I'm not really sure how to fix it but there does seem to be an abnormal amount of downtime between games.
Other than that tho I really like the casting and its awesome
Oh, having guest players cast in games for LANS etc would be farrkkeeen siiiiiccckkkK!!!
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