[pRoEpsilon]

Hi guys,

Alright I have been having trouble with handling the Banshee and Thor composition in PvT. I haven't seen such composition till only recently.

I tried massing immortals, stalkers and HT ( storms upgraded ) to help counter this but there is just so much DPS and it doesn't help that he brings loads of SCV to come and repair everything!!!

Any ideas from other toss players who have encountered this before?

Thnx!

update - Replay uploaded for better idea of what I meant how I can better prep for this type of compo. thnx again!

[HuT]

Uh, depends on how many bases he is on.

I'm gonna guess 2, in which case going for Immortal Stalker Zealot should be sufficient.

If it's a late 2 base timing, HT are pretty good since they can feedback both units and storm the SCV's repairing allowing Immortals to clean up the Thors and Banshees generally melt in straight fights vs Stalkers.

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by SQL.HuT

Uh, depends on how many bases he is on.

I'm gonna guess 2, in which case going for Immortal Stalker Zealot should be sufficient.

If it's a late 2 base timing, HT are pretty good since they can feedback both units and storm the SCV's repairing allowing Immortals to clean up the Thors and Banshees generally melt in straight fights vs Stalkers.

Well he got 3 bases up. I manage to kill his 3rd base and probably half his army too while getting my 3rd base up. I had HT, Zealots, Stalkers and Immo but still got roflstomped. Feedback and storm as best i can but still wasn't enough. =( Want a replay to see the details?

[Strafe]

Originally Posted by SQL.HuT

Uh, depends on how many bases he is on.

I'm gonna guess 2, in which case going for Immortal Stalker Zealot should be sufficient.

If it's a late 2 base timing, HT are pretty good since they can feedback both units and storm the SCV's repairing allowing Immortals to clean up the Thors and Banshees generally melt in straight fights vs Stalkers.

Terrible advice Immortal stalker zealot gets annihilated

[EveVendetta]

Originally Posted by Strafe

Terrible advice Immortal stalker zealot gets annihilated

Sorry don't have the time to watch your replays, but Strafe's right. You gotta get either HTs or Collo to stop this kinda 2-3 base push if they're well executed. Zealot stalkers immortals won't be enough to hold it. I would get 1-2 immortals while waiting for robo bay to get up though, they're still good DPS against the thors.

And I don't know how your units are getting sniped if you have either collo or hts, that shouldn't be the case. Both collo and hts can be used for the pre-engagements especially since his army is not mobile. If his banshees come forward drive them back with your stalkers. Collos and HTs aim the marines and scvs too and you should eat this build up!

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by EveVendetta

Sorry don't have the time to watch your replays, but Strafe's right. You gotta get either HTs or Collo to stop this kinda 2-3 base push if they're well executed. Zealot stalkers immortals won't be enough to hold it. I would get 1-2 immortals while waiting for robo bay to get up though, they're still good DPS against the thors.

And I don't know how your units are getting sniped if you have either collo or hts, that shouldn't be the case. Both collo and hts can be used for the pre-engagements especially since his army is not mobile. If his banshees come forward drive them back with your stalkers. Collos and HTs aim the marines and scvs too and you should eat this build up!

yeah I think i wasn't doing enough with my stalkers to the banshees but he had a huge amount about 7-9 Banshee with obs and 6-7 thors. I did my best to storm and feedback but there wasn't enough HT to do enough damage for the rest of my army to clean up. He barely had any marines just SCV's surrounding the thors and banshees. Thanks for the advise!

[ProAnnn]

I fought this composition before, i made like 3 collossus before switching into double robo immortals with chargelots / stalkers for support. As long as ur collossus are able to clear the marines fast enough, your zealots and immortals could have tore through the thors easily, warpin stalkers to clear the rest of the banshees.

[HuT]

3 base? Chargelot Immortal HT Stalker owns it

[pRoEpsilon]

I just uploaded a replay if you want to take at it. I probably didn't have the best unit compo to beat his. He barely had any marines if I can recall just pure mech. he used his banshees to target down my immo and the thors just bust through and had free reign.

[AxSGRiM]

Immortal HT chargelot... going for the banshee thor compsotion normally means he'll attack when hes like at 160 army supply on 2 base. if you hold it off just transtion back to standard deathball.

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

Immortal HT chargelot... going for the banshee thor compsotion normally means he'll attack when hes like at 160 army supply on 2 base. if you hold it off just transtion back to standard deathball.

I like the idea of chargelots but they die so easily to the thor fire. a bunch of thor fire and they just evaporated..... hm... I don't think i have trouble with the thors. it is more of the banshee that has the DPS to really do damage to my immortals and stalkers.

[HuT]

Originally Posted by pRoEpsilon

I like the idea of chargelots but they die so easily to the thor fire. a bunch of thor fire and they just evaporated..... hm... I don't think i have trouble with the thors. it is more of the banshee that has the DPS to really do damage to my immortals and stalkers.

Chargelots are there purely to buffer damage / support DPS. They allow the Immortals to do full damage and take the fire off of the critical units for you (HT, Immortal).

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by SQL.HuT

Chargelots are there purely to buffer damage / support DPS. They allow the Immortals to do full damage and take the fire off of the critical units for you (HT, Immortal).

oh okok. When engaging thors should it be on a choke or is it better spread out? Coz in the replay I attacked him in the choke of Entombed Valley. I think that is also what might have killed me.

[nGenLight]

Collosi Templar Stalker Immortal Phoenix

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Collosi Templar Stalker Immortal Phoenix

wow light are you sure that is a viable composition on 2/3 base? That is alot of gas lol!
But putting resources aside, that will definitely beat that composition if i could afford it on 2/3 bases.

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by pRoEpsilon

wow light are you sure that is a viable composition on 2/3 base? That is alot of gas lol!
But putting resources aside, that will definitely beat that composition if i could afford it on 2/3 bases.

You shouldnt be on a 2/3 bases if he is Banshee/Thor. If he maxes out on mech, and your army contains many zealots, ur screwed. Against such high tier unit compo u need high gas units of urself, archons, HTs, collosi, immortal, voidrays etc etc. The extra minerals shld be used to get more bases and/or mineral dumping zealot harrasses with pylons/warpprisms.

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

You shouldnt be on a 2/3 bases if he is Banshee/Thor. If he maxes out on mech, and your army contains many zealots, ur screwed. Against such high tier unit compo u need high gas units of urself, archons, HTs, collosi, immortal, voidrays etc etc. The extra minerals shld be used to get more bases and/or mineral dumping zealot harrasses with pylons/warpprisms.

I understand what your saying Light. But he was expanding to a third base that is why I was expanding too to try to keep up with him. But yes I understand it would be risky to expand while he is massing up units.. Thanks for tips Light! =)

[FvRsolis]

I was curious about this too. I was hit by a Thor/Banshee/Raven composition (I thought a 1-1-1 with tanks, I didn't expect the Thors). It was a 1b allin. with the SCVs being stopped around the thor just as the engagement started. Is there any way to hold this off if I've taken a FE?

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

twilight with a robo for immortals. So chargelots, ht, stalk immort crushes this. If you have excess gas a few archons are actually quite strong too. Position is very important, fight on open ground with a wide choke if you are zealot heavy and throwing a few storms while he pushes is great. Softens up the army a bit, may snipe some scv's/rines and gives you more time to warp in units

[Next_rim]

I used voidrays, immortals and chargelots (no HT) against something similar. Voidrays can and will chew through thors very fast even through repairs, trick is to keep the marines busy or dead.

[nirvAnA]

just gonna copy n paste what i posted about this in TGM, just pay attention to the mid game build my early game build was just metagame nonsense!

Misc Replays:
1.4.2 ladder pvt nirvana strafe thorterran Had trouble with this "jakji build" till i came up with this strategy. It involves using blink stalkers for heavy harassment, sniping off tech labs, constantly blinking in and out of his main / natural and picking off lone thors while taking your third and getting templar / immortal tech. IMO my build hard countered his and if you are having problems with thor play you need to take a look at this.

Hope that helps!

[pRoEpsilon]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

just gonna copy n paste what i posted about this in TGM, just pay attention to the mid game build my early game build was just metagame nonsense!

Misc Replays:
1.4.2 ladder pvt nirvana strafe thorterran Had trouble with this "jakji build" till i came up with this strategy. It involves using blink stalkers for heavy harassment, sniping off tech labs, constantly blinking in and out of his main / natural and picking off lone thors while taking your third and getting templar / immortal tech. IMO my build hard countered his and if you are having problems with thor play you need to take a look at this.

Hope that helps!

Thanks Nirvana for the specific replay! My question is if I wanted to limit his banshee count, will the stalker harass do it? Or is there something more specific that I can do. Because storming and trying to feedback both banshee and Thor will take a lot HT. I might not have enough to do so.

[nGenLight]

No I mean you should be on more than 4-6 gas, you should be on 8+