[Sedz]

AsGK = Kayhan = Nicep

I request that no admin removes this please. I know it is probably against the rules to shame players but he needs to be.

So we accepted Kayhan into Ascension Gaming because he had told us his old clan had disbanded and what not, and he generally seemed like a cool guy (at first). Weeks went on and he spent time on our Teamspeak and what not but became disliked very quickly due to his stupid comments and lack of brain. Anyways, he was eventually removed from the clan for our own reasons, and we told him this.

Then he asked for coaching from AsGCHobo, CHobo accepted and gave him a few lessons and K refused to pay for these, calling CHobo a 'shit coach' and saying 'he doesn't know anything' and what not, he then a week later asked for more coaching lessons, promising to pay after the next lesson had ended, CHobo refused, and K continued to shit talk him.

A few clans have come to us asking about him because he wanted to join, and to every clan we have shit talked him pretty hard, he deserves it. He also has tendencies to massively BM on the ladder, even doing it to his own ex clan mates.

So the whole point of this thread is to raise awareness to the coaches of SEA about K, and to not offer him any sort of coaching, but also to raise awareness to the members of the SEA community, that if this guy pretty much does anything that portrays AsG in a bad light, he is no longer a member of our clan and to not take it into account when dealing with AsG in future.

Oh, I've also asked him numerous times to change his name or to tone it down but he just keeps telling me to 'go suk it moron'

Cheers

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	good to out people like this, I've heard something similar from chobo, poor guy
	iVnStinger:	WillChen, AsGK, all the same :)
	EveJeonSa:	what a scumbag, good report! :)
	AsGNabi:
	EveMassacrisM:	AsGFucktard off to the list. Gj calling him out!
	lolwut:
	Flamga:

[iSt]

you should really get him to change his id cause until now i had an extremely negative view about your team due to this guy non stop bming in bnet after the game.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by iSt

you should really get him to change his id cause until now i had an extremely negative view about your team due to this guy non stop bming in bnet after the game.

I am trying, but every time I ask him to I just get a super dick response like I mentioned in the OP.

But yeah, we are not like this guy at all.

[Dox]

Originally Posted by iSt

you should really get him to change his id cause until now i had an extremely negative view about your team due to this guy non stop bming in bnet after the game.

AsG are a bunch of totally chill guys, real cool.

Quick Comments

	AsGNabi:	;D
	SmirkToT:	AsG?BsG?CsG?

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Sedz

Oh, I've also asked him numerous times to change his name or to tone it down but he just keeps telling me to 'go suk it moron'

He already said that he has tried, and this was half the reason for this thread.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

He already said that he has tried, and this was half the reason for this thread.

If he can't change it due to no name changes then he can say that, but that's only half the reason as you stated, it's the fact that he's going around BM'ing and shit talking people using the AsG tags, and as someone's stated in this thread, it's already negatively impacted their view on our clan.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Sedz

If he can't change it due to no name changes then he can say that, but that's only half the reason as you stated, it's the fact that he's going around BM'ing and shit talking people using the AsG tags, and as someone's stated in this thread, it's already negatively impacted their view on our clan.

Yah, I think my post got misunderstood. I meant you had already tried to get him to change it, and also him negatively impacting the clan was only half the reason.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Yah, I think my post got misunderstood. I meant you had already tried to get him to change it, and also him negatively impacting the clan was only half the reason.

Fair enough.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Sedz

Then he asked for coaching from AsGCHobo, CHobo accepted and gave him a few lessons and K refused to pay for these, calling CHobo a 'shit coach' and saying 'he doesn't know anything' and what not, he then a week later asked for more coaching lessons, promising to pay after the next lesson had ended, CHobo refused, and K continued to shit talk him.

As someone who has experienced CHoBo's coaching, I can say with a great deal of confidence that he is NOT a shit coach, the statetment is totally unfounded and at odds with my own experiences.

[wTlzq]

This kind of behavior really sucks, but it would be nice if CHoBo gives his side of the Story about AsGK as well, to prevent any biased shaming( unlikely but there is no evidence in OP)

[Flaunt]

maybe AsGK thought that getting help from a team mate didn't cost anything. charging a team mate for lessons sounds a little silly

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

maybe AsGK thought that getting help from a team mate didn't cost anything. charging a team mate for lessons sounds a little silly

Not when you coach professionally and at such a high quality. And especially not if it was made clear that it wasn't free. I think the only silly thing is thinking he can steal from someone twice with the same promise.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

maybe AsGK thought that getting help from a team mate didn't cost anything. charging a team mate for lessons sounds a little silly

He was no longer on the team when he asked. And I'm pretty sure they agreed on a price prior to the training because K asked for a discount in lessons, but CHobo will be coming in giving his side of the story when he can.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

maybe AsGK thought that getting help from a team mate didn't cost anything. charging a team mate for lessons sounds a little silly

I imagine there's a difference between asking a teammate for help, and getting a paid coaching session from them. Just in terms of the coach putting in some preparation team, a lot of them ask for some replays before hand so they have an idea of what level the student is at/areas to work on, etc.

If you're asking him for lessons as opposed to just some quick feedback as a teammate, I can see how this would work...

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

maybe AsGK thought that getting help from a team mate didn't cost anything. charging a team mate for lessons sounds a little silly

He was not part of the clan at this stage.

He 100% knew that my coaching was at a cost, he was haggling down and I wouldn't do it. The only thing I agreed on was a discounted first lesson for him to assess.

Which he then did not pay anything for.

My clan members get access to private channel on youtube with some coaching material which I post from time to time. I also have strategies posted in the TGM as well.

[iSt]

well ive reported this guy once or twice but blizzard seems to be doing nth as usual

[CHoBo(kice)]

I am not unreasonable. I clearly state that my style/coaching is different, unorthodox and unique. I teach a style of play which is not very common but is really effective against meta-game and current style. So I can totally understand that it may not be for everyone. If you decide to try it and not like it should you get your money back(in this case I did not even receive any money). It is like getting a movie and not liking it, are you going to get your money back? Despite giving him a very discounted first lesson as a trial and seeing he was a prior clan member.

After saying he did not like my coaching and kept making excuses why it was shit or what he didn't like about it. Or trying to say it was not a full hour duration. I explained to him exactly what I covered, showed that the call length was over an hour and that I still provided the service. He still kept promising he would pay me the next day for 2 weeks. OK I admit and understand that my teachings/style is not for everyone and may not work but for you to accept me as a coach that is your decision which he decided to go ahead.

For him to come back after 3 weeks of me chasing him to pay me for coaching and ask for more contradicts his story of "strategy being stupid/dumb/crap" or him not learning anything. I kept my cool and asked for the lesson which was given to be paid for before I proceeded any further with him. The response which I got below clearly sounds like I am going to get scammed.


[20/01/2012 10:11:02 PM] kayhan: naa **** that\
[20/01/2012 10:11:06 PM] kayhan: u give me a session
[20/01/2012 10:11:11 PM] kayhan: and il pay all up
[20/01/2012 10:31:12 PM] kayhan: hey dude get back to me
[20/01/2012 10:31:18 PM] kayhan: cause i really want some coachin lessons
[20/01/2012 10:31:20 PM] kayhan: from u

See his desperation for getting more coaching off a coach which is clearly "shit". He really hit my spot, I have tried really hard to keep my cool in all situations because of being a TGM coach, but sorry I let him have it.

I told him to keep his stupid money, that he insulted my coaching, clearly he knows everything... He then proceeded to say my strategy's are shit, go and beat Stefano with them.

I have seen MVP use similar style and beat top names. Although like any strategy will always have flaws, downfalls and weaknesses in certain times of the game.

Anyway his foundation and obsession that "he beat me" has grown to make him sound even more awful, how hard is it to beat someone who is focussing on chatting, explaining discussing stuff while getting massively supply blocked and not really paying attention. Even my gold student almost beat me the other day when I was playing him trying to teach him and not paying attention to the game. If that's the case for him to feel better about himself that he beat me, so be it.

I have had positive feedback from every student which I have had, and the fact he wanted more afterwords totally contradicts his bad review. Please don't let this discourage anyone from getting coaching from me.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	Detailed description, doesn't leave any room for excuses on his part!
	nirvAnA:	chobo ftw ^_^ he probably would have said that about ANYONE to try and get free lessons
	GGpope:
	sRFullstop:
	LoRDo:	have a rep point. That would have made me put my head through a wall!
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	AsGNabi:	I watched Chobo suffer through this and saw kayhan's idiocies with my own eyes. This thread needed to be made.
	TCPKiaSu:	ill pay in rep points :D

[CHoBo(kice)]

Dox my hero You better own the ace matches

To be honest I wouldn't even coach Kayhan if he paid me $100 an hour. No money in the world would be worth it because of the shit you have to tolerate to coach him.

[Stallion]

omg its that kayhan guy he was pesting me like crazy to get in crux before and was raging at me for not letting him for ages the guy is a troll imo and i can believe he would do something like that quiet easily

[[TA]LoSt]

Wow, this thread couldn't have came at a better time. Was warming up on ladder today, hit him and he bm'ed the shit out of me. I simply left the game with a "great way to represent your clan man.."

Good to see he was kicked long before this, and I apologize for what I said about clan AsG; I hold nothing against the clan itself for this kids actions. Good choice to kick him! ^_^

[iM yang]

I didnt even know who he was, I saw he was BMing sensei hard on ladder and was shocked since every guy in AsG only ever jokes around. Good post Ben, wouldn't want you guys get the short end of the stick

Quick Comments

AsGNabi:

XD

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.yang

I didnt even know who he was, I saw he was BMing sensei hard on ladder and was shocked since every guy in AsG only ever jokes around. Good post Ben, wouldn't want you guys get the short end of the stick

-.- clever

[Zealo]

over a month after he got kicked and he still spams me at least once a week asking why he was kicked and if i can let him back in :/

not sure how he's GM either, he's never been able to beat me (mid diamond random) in any matchup (including some games about 3 weeks ago). he was low diamond when we kicked him out arround christmas time.

[nirvAnA]

I like clan AsG, why aren't they a house clan yet!

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	i like you too ♥
	GGpope:	^
	Sedz:	<3
	AsGNabi:	:3

[GGpope]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

I like clan AsG, why aren't they a house clan yet!

I didn't even know about this feature. (not really experienced in this website yet ._.)

Do it Sedz. We don't want our clan's significiance to be dwarfed by every other major SEA clan.

...clutching at straws here.

Glad the Kayhan situation is being sorted though, sad to hear that some people viewed our clan in a negative light because of him.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:
	TABottles:	Oh hai! thanks for making me stick with terran when i approached you on NA a long time back xx

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by GGpope

We don't want our clan's significiance to be dwarfed by every other major SEA clan.

Tee hee

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.yang

Tee hee

I hate you and GGPope so much :<

[Nadir]

Originally Posted by Sedz

I hate you and GGPope so much :<

You're overreacting to something so tiny

Quick Comments

Zealo:

nice

[NvRossi]

he tried to offer me $30 an hour for coaching, glad i denied it!

[CHoBo(kice)]

If he pays upfront Rossi take it and I split with you :P

If he doesn't pay upfront STAY AWAY.

Even so I reckon that he's that much of a *** even if he pays upfront will dispute on paypal, and for services like that it's always in buyers favour.

Seems strange he wants Terran coaching while he plays Zerg primarily, no customers or ladder games played by him as Terran on either server.

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

If he pays upfront Rossi take it and I split with you :P

If he doesn't pay upfront STAY AWAY.

Even so I reckon that he's that much of a *** even if he pays upfront will dispute on paypal, and for services like that it's always in buyers favour.

Seems strange he wants Terran coaching while he plays Zerg primarily, no customers or ladder games played by him as Terran on either server.

haha tbh not really interested in coaching at all, maybe for the right price though! But yea i highly doubt he would pay up and not worth the time bothering.

[Reere]

Originally Posted by Dox

AsG are a bunch of totally chill guys, real cool.

I second this~

[Zealo]

he did tell me he was switching to 'terrian' (pretty sure he thinks it's actually spelled like that) at the start of the season. he couldn't beat me as terran any more than he could playing zerg

[Meatex]

And people wonder why I rag on blizzard so much for not giving us the clan system they promised at release and this is one of the reasons why
Sad cause the AsG guys (the real ones) are cool guys from FaDe's experience and its sad that one kid is making so much trouble with nothing they can do about it
Hopefully blizzard (or the people they outsourced the SEA server to) bother to look into this guy and find something ban worthy

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

And people wonder why I rag on blizzard so much for not giving us the clan system they promised at release and this is one of the reasons why
Sad cause the AsG guys (the real ones) are cool guys from FaDe's experience and its sad that one kid is making so much trouble with nothing they can do about it
Hopefully blizzard (or the people they outsourced the SEA server to) bother to look into this guy and find something ban worthy

Yeah, we don't want to be pointing fingers or making incorrect assumptions but we think he may be either;

a) Loaning his account to someone else
or
b) maphacking

We think this may be the case because of his huge jump from low diamond to top 100 GM in like a month, I mean, he may legitimately be a good player, but in the practice games our members played with him he definitely didn't seem like a top 100 GM caliber player (at that time), or maybe he received coaching and legit improved a whole bunch.

But we'll see what happens

[PiG]

Thanks for this post.

I almost coached him but by luck he was 5 minutes late and someme up and I had to go out, so i messaged him on skype saying "sorry you're late i have to go I'll be on later to schedule a time" and when I came back he got really aggressive and then demanded i give him a discount and all sorts of ridiculous shit.

He apologised and said stuff like sorry he's a testosterone head etc. and then booked 4 hours of straight coaching "cos wtf is 1 hour 1 fuckin game?". However apparently he couldn't get my payment details cos I didn't come on skype while at ACL for the weekend and it was my fault he spent the money on other shit already. He didn't even attempt to email me and admitted to having no money so i basically told him to contact me if he wants coaching and haven't heard from him since. Thank god i avoided wasting more of my time on this idiot.

[NvRossi]

yea he kept saying 4 hours of straight coaching to me too, made no sense

[nirvAnA]

Well it looks like sc2sea's first "get free coaching scammer" has been outed. I believe he approached jazbas too. Thanks to all the coaches for coming out and sharing their story. Scamming people off $$ and time is a pretty big deal imo up there with map hacking and worthy of lengthly forum ban / exile from the community.

Only issue is he has 0 posts on sc2sea so I don't think a site ban will affect him at all.

[ToRSpartaz]

Actions of the individual no way reflect that of the Clan.

Ascension have been an up and coming Clan in SEA and I do respect them as Rivals~

[CHoBo(kice)]

To be honest I am happy I took one for the coaching team.

The money I lost is not for nothing. Now everyone knows the truth about Mr Kayhan.

What I like the most is how much the community sticks together in such situations, to be honest I thought and was expecting criticism from members like what happened on the hacker thread but happily found that we received 100% support which is outstanding to see. The support received here makes me feel no longer at loss.

Thanks to all

[Spectral]

Hi everyone,
Never posted here before, but I just wanted to say thanks to the SEA Sc2 community for being understanding on this issue. As you can imagine it is very frustrating for us as a clan to have this person make us look bad, but it's great to know the people who really matter aren't fooled.

- Spectral
Leader of Ascension Gaming

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	not sure how you have 10 rep points with 1 post (that has no rep on it), but have some more!
	x5.Revenant:	^Zealo's comment made me feel generous. So here you go!
	Carboniced:	same ;)

[TADivinity]

Another reason why I look forward to having real clan tags in Bnet 2.0 like in WC3...So we know who truly is a clan member incase we incorrectly judge the integrity of a clan through one (kicked) person

[NvJazBas]

Ok, first, I apologise to AsGChobo for introducing K to you. I did not know he would do this kind of thing at all as:
He is actually one of (only..) my student who I've coached about 10 times which he DID pay for. (Seemed nice to me tbh. Bit up himself but not that bad)

But looking at this situation, I find this very offensive as one of fellow SEA player and a TGM coach and I'll be refusing anymore coaching from K.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	PERFECT HUMAN
	Fadey:

[TABjornbrandr]

Alright, because I'm such a badass investigator, I noticed something on Rogue's stream tonight. She joined a call with a teammate and I saw a Kamyah and a Matt that looked surprisingly like Zanooku.
http://www.twitch.tv/femfxrogue
Go through the vods, I started watching about 7:30pm my time which is approximately 25 minutes before this post.
Anyway, throughout the skype conversation in the background you can hear Kamyah (who I believe is AsGK) shit-talking Jazbas and calling him general racist comments. Furthermore, I -think- (couldn't tell because I don't know the voices) that Zanooku was joining in on attacking Jazbas. He's the one whining about the Zerg player killing his with Mutas and saying that he has to 'let him know that he's a bad player'.

May be interesting for you guys to know.

Edit: They're also attacking yang in there, too. So that and the potential attacks on Jazbas certainly highlight how bullshit Zanooku's 'friendly return' was.
Also, just to clarify, Rogue is invited into this conversation by a team-mate and isn't actually affiliated with the dudes talking in the background; they're in there because of another person in the conversation. One could likely go to Zanooku's stream and find the VOD for it (I believe he was streaming at the time) and hear the same skype conversation.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

such a boss, thanks for this

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

Alright, because I'm such a badass investigator, I noticed something on Rogue's stream tonight. She joined a call with a teammate and I saw a Kamyah and a Matt that looked surprisingly like Zanooku.
http://www.twitch.tv/femfxrogue
Go through the vods, I started watching about 7:30pm my time which is approximately 25 minutes before this post.
Anyway, throughout the skype conversation in the background you can hear Kamyah (who I believe is AsGK) shit-talking Jazbas and calling him general racist comments. Furthermore, I -think- (couldn't tell because I don't know the voices) that Zanooku was joining in on attacking Jazbas. He's the one whining about the Zerg player killing his with Mutas and saying that he has to 'let him know that he's a bad player'.

May be interesting for you guys to know.

Edit: They're also attacking yang in there, too. So that and the potential attacks on Jazbas certainly highlight how bullshit Zanooku's 'friendly return' was.

If this is true, I'll be disgusted by both of them

Quick Comments

|Erasmus|:

It's alright... I still love you jazbas.

[TABjornbrandr]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

If this is true, I'll be disgusted by both of them

Yeah I don't know if the vod will be up yet because she's still streaming, but it'll be the latest one there from tonight when it's up.

[Z4N00KU]

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

Alright, because I'm such a badass investigator, I noticed something on Rogue's stream tonight. She joined a call with a teammate and I saw a Kamyah and a Matt that looked surprisingly like Zanooku.
http://www.twitch.tv/femfxrogue
Go through the vods, I started watching about 7:30pm my time which is approximately 25 minutes before this post.
Anyway, throughout the skype conversation in the background you can hear Kamyah (who I believe is AsGK) shit-talking Jazbas and calling him general racist comments. Furthermore, I -think- (couldn't tell because I don't know the voices) that Zanooku was joining in on attacking Jazbas. He's the one whining about the Zerg player killing his with Mutas and saying that he has to 'let him know that he's a bad player'.

May be interesting for you guys to know.

Edit: They're also attacking yang in there, too. So that and the potential attacks on Jazbas certainly highlight how bullshit Zanooku's 'friendly return' was.
Also, just to clarify, Rogue is invited into this conversation by a team-mate and isn't actually affiliated with the dudes talking in the background; they're in there because of another person in the conversation. One could likely go to Zanooku's stream and find the VOD for it (I believe he was streaming at the time) and hear the same skype conversation.

There's 1 trait I hate more than others, and that is lying, and for that, f*ck you.

Ok firstly, yes I was in the skype call with Rogue who was streaming.

Secondly, yes Kayhan was talking trash (he was angry, of course he's going to flame and let out frustration), and no, I didn't "join in on attacking JazBas". He's a friend of mine whom I respect and hold to a high esteem (which obviously, I don't respect many people so you making up lies is bullsh1t).

Yes, I was losing to Mutalisks (much like every other single Protoss), and yes I was frustrated, but no, I didn't flame the person abusing them.

Yes, I was smack talking yang.. AMONG THE PRIVACY OF MY OWN SKYPE CALL, much like MANY OTHER PEOPLE who talk about others in their own Skype calls. Not only that, but he wasn't even watching Rogue's stream at the time.
Just because I'm "turning over a new leaf", it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to enjoy myself in a private Skype call.

Originally Posted by SeLpHy

AsGK?
I met him on the Ladder and I 2-Raxed him. Because he didn't GG I Private messaged him a "gg wp"
He got really angry and really BM'd me. Well maybe he has a bad day I thought but the other day I played him again he was still really bad mannering me :/
Well, AsG is a nice clan indeed. Good and wise choice of kicking out K.

You messaging him that after the game was rude. It's entirely understandable to flame someone after they're rude enough to message you after a game. You were also in the wrong, don't pay out on someone if you're going to do the same thing beforehand.


Yeah so what if kayhan did what he did?
It's a simple business transaction. You pay for something before you receive the "goods", not the other way around. If you cannot comprehend how a transaction works, consider other work, and not coaching.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

Yeah so what if kayhan did what he did?
It's a simple business transaction. You pay for something before you receive the "goods", not the other way around. If you cannot comprehend how a transaction works, consider other work, and not coaching.

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

Yeah so what if kayhan did what he did?

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

so what

So a thread is made that will tarnish his reputation.

Worked for AZK, didnt it?

The sc2 community isnt too acceptive of people acting like two year olds. I'm sure you of all people would know that. Im pretty sure you're defending him not because of any honest opinions on what happened, but because of bias as a friend of his. Although most of your points in that post are right, you cant turn around and say everything he did was ok because it wasn't his mistake.

[Z4N00KU]

Originally Posted by SatuSPR

So we make a thread that will tarnish his reputation.

Worked for AZK, didnt it?

The sc2 community isnt too acceptive of people acting like two year olds. I'm sure you of all people would know that. Im pretty sure you're defending him not because of any honest opinions on what happened, but because of bias as a friend of his. Although most of your points in that post are right, you cant turn around and say everything he did was ok because it wasn't his mistake.

You're taking what I said out of context.

I am friends with him, and if you read the entire post I made, I specified that he was smack talking.
I'm not going to piss him off even more when he's letting out frustration over what happened, that's just simply wrong.

What I meant by what you quoted is that even though kayhan did what he did, it was silly to expect payment after you've done the service.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

Yes, I was smack talking yang.. AMONG THE PRIVACY OF MY OWN SKYPE CALL, much like MANY OTHER PEOPLE who talk about others in their own Skype calls. Not only that, but he wasn't even watching Rogue's stream at the time.
Just because I'm "turning over a new leaf", it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to enjoy myself in a private Skype call.

Sort of understandable. I will also speak my mind about people who may have rubbed me the wrong way when I'm just chatting on teamspeak with clanmates, or similar. Speaking my mind about them usually doesn't involve being terribly abusive though. Just saying you don't like someone for whatever reason still doesn't justify racial abuse or anything else (I haven't listened to the VOD, but you've been accused of this a lot of times in the past). Expecting that people won't hear the abuse doesn't make it fine.

Yeah so what if kayhan did what he did?
It's a simple business transaction. You pay for something before you receive the "goods", not the other way around. If you cannot comprehend how a transaction works, consider other work, and not coaching.

Consider that up until kayhan, none of the numerous coaches in this community had similar problems. They felt no real fear about working on a somewhat trust system. So it turns out this Kayhan is the ONE single person in the community who is enough of a dickhead that he wants to go and abuse that system. Don't try and lay this on the coaches. In the future, you are right, they will be wanting to see the money upfront if it's a student they haven't worked with before, it's just pretty sad that it had to happen this way, and it doesn't make what kayhan did any less wrong.

Keep in mind that a lot of service jobs work this way too. When you go to a mechanic, they fix your car, then give you a receipt stating how much it cost based on the work done. I hope you don't think it's okay to just run off and try not paying people like that in real life too?

[Z4N00KU]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Sort of understandable. I will also speak my mind about people who may have rubbed me the wrong way when I'm just chatting on teamspeak with clanmates, or similar. Speaking my mind about them usually doesn't involve being terribly abusive though. Just saying you don't like someone for whatever reason still doesn't justify racial abuse or anything else (I haven't listened to the VOD, but you've been accused of this a lot of times in the past). Expecting that people won't hear the abuse doesn't make it fine.


Consider that up until kayhan, none of the numerous coaches in this community had similar problems. They felt no real fear about working on a somewhat trust system. So it turns out this Kayhan is the ONE single person in the community who is enough of a dickhead that he wants to go and abuse that system. Don't try and lay this on the coaches. In the future, you are right, they will be wanting to see the money upfront if it's a student they haven't worked with before, it's just pretty sad that it had to happen this way, and it doesn't make what kayhan did any less wrong.

Keep in mind that a lot of service jobs work this way too. When you go to a mechanic, they fix your car, then give you a receipt stating how much it cost based on the work done. I hope you don't think it's okay to just run off and try not paying people like that in real life too?

yang is also a white, Australian male, I really don't see any racial issues there.
JazBas is a friend, I wasn't abusing him, I respect him greatly.

Yes kayhan didn't "pay up", and yes mechanics do the work first, however, there's many ways of tracking what certain people have done and the law can decide what happens.
This is a simply online transaction where tracing is harder, and enforcing punishment is a lot different.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

Yeah so what if kayhan did what he did?
It's a simple business transaction. You pay for something before you receive the "goods", not the other way around. If you cannot comprehend how a transaction works, consider other work, and not coaching.

No, in a lot of cases, you pay AFTER receiving good or services. For example you pay a plumber after he repaired the links. It's also generally the case in B to B.

That sort of aggressivity to respected members of the community (a TGM coach for example) is not appreciated and that's the sort of things you have to get rid of before coming back.

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by Nemo

No, in a lot of cases, you pay AFTER receiving good or services. For example you pay a plumber after he repaired the links. It's also generally the case in B to B.

For real life things where you have a receipt or proof of transaction.

For digital goods, it's the other way around, you usually pay before something happens, because there are a lot of easy ways to scam people out of digital goods.

Think about it, how many times have you paid after you got something online?

[GGpope]

Originally Posted by Z4N00KU

Yes, I was smack talking yang.. AMONG THE PRIVACY OF MY OWN SKYPE CALL, much like MANY OTHER PEOPLE who talk about others in their own Skype calls. Not only that, but he wasn't even watching Rogue's stream at the time.
Just because I'm "turning over a new leaf", it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to enjoy myself in a private Skype call.

In the privacy of your own Skype call which was on a live stream? If you want to smack talk about others behind their back and pretend its okay, at the very least make sure your 'private' call is actually private before you do so.

[AlopexToT]

he 6 pool all in'ed me on ladder! he deserves this! >:O

[TABjornbrandr]

http://www.twitch.tv/femfxrogue/b/307902613

1:01:38 - He says you won't be coaching him anymore
1:02:29 - They start the yang attacks
1:04:50 - Another mention of Jazbas
1:06:10 - Zanooku whining because he lost to zerg because it's just not fair (not important but funny to hear him cry)
1:08:38 - Another mention of Jazbas
1:10:50 - Might be Zanooku or Kamyah talking about harassing someone ingame
1:12:18 - Zanooku losing to a 6 pool and then Kamyah talking about telling Jazbas to suck a dick
1:16:06 - Zanooku making another attack on yang
1:18:45 - Another thing about yang

Updating this as I go through the VOD.

Quick Comments

iM yang:

[Rockstar]

hahaha Busted. Good stuff.

All the people that have played him lately can you please upload the replays so I can scan them for traces of maphacking? Would be tops. Thanks.

[Sedz]

Wow, Zanooku is possibly even worse than Kayhan when it comes to the lack of brain. They are a match made in heaven.

Also, great work to Bjorn for that find

At 1:10:50 Kayhan is talking about him reading the thread and someone saying they've reported him for his behaviour.

[TABjornbrandr]

I can't help but feel as though finding this stuff is great, but it would've been great if we'd known all this earlier. Such a shame that people in SEA who help others based on trust are getting completely fucked over.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Wow they are both disgusting. No wonder they are horrible players, you can never get good with attitudes like that.

[iM yang]

Random retards shit-talking people who they're jealous of to be funny. They're already banned from the community, what else is there to do, my opinion of zanooku can't get any lower. I have been telling people to just stop talking to zanooku for a long time but for some reason they still encourage him..

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:
	nirvAnA:
	LoRDo:
	Champi:

[TABjornbrandr]

Also, just to clarify, Rogue is invited into this conversation by a team-mate and isn't actually affiliated with the dudes talking in the background; they're in there because of another person in the conversation. One could likely go to Zanooku's stream and find the VOD for it (I believe he was streaming at the time) and hear the same skype conversation.

(edited into original post for clarity on the situation)

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

Hi
I have deleted my vod because I don't want any involvement in this.
You can check his stream for his vod, but all I had said after I was added to call with my teammate femFxNudge was telling them to shuttup cause Jazbas is nice and that yang is my bf.

I really dont want me or my stream affiliated with this in any way, I am very sorry for anything bad that was said and I assure you I had no part in it.

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:	No need to apologise for something I should've clarified earlier
	Rage:	so what you're saying is that you think yang is a jerkbutt

[CHoBo(kice)]

yeah yang you shit, two base and no units as zerg what the HELL lol apparently drones hold everything right

yannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng

nah he a good kid, displayed an awesome show-match against moonglade

[iM yang]

wait what?

[CHoBo(kice)]

was just kidding around i know you were going for 2 base ultra :P

[Sedz]

I hate you Pope, and you yang, and you nadir.

All of you will be taken to my rape dungeon for suitable punishment upon next meeting.

[iM yang]

isn't that where we play starcraft

[TASlowHands]

d00d is a serial cheeser, literally every game if you check his build orders, just metagame him and get free wins

[AsGNabi]

Yang
you did really well last night. i would never have the guts to play in front of a crowd. :/

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by AsGNabi

Yang
you did really well last night. i would never have the guts to play in front of a crowd. :/

thanks roze it helps that i'm basically just playing in front of a bunch of friends

[AsGNabi]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.yang

thanks roze it helps that i'm basically just playing in front of a bunch of friends

thats the best way to think about it!

[EveMassacrisM]

It's kinda retarded how you ask a specific someone for coaching and then call him a ' shit ' coach afterwards. It just does nothing but make you sound like a silly brainless little ****.

[SeLpHy]

AsGK?
I met him on the Ladder and I 2-Raxed him. Because he didn't GG I Private messaged him a "gg wp"
He got really angry and really BM'd me. Well maybe he has a bad day I thought but the other day I played him again he was still really bad mannering me :/
Well, AsG is a nice clan indeed. Good and wise choice of kicking out K.

[cRSenSei]

Hahahahaha this guy.. I played him on ladder maybe 3-4 times and each time he would just BM the shit out of me and I would laugh cause he was pretty terrible, so this makes my day to know he's like it to everyone.

[|Erasmus|]

But if you're not saying it's okay for him to do what he did, what are you saying?

[iSt]

i think he is saying K did a wrong thing but chobo was also silly to give his service before payment in a reasonably unsafe online transaction.

correct me if im wrong

[breadfan]

Zanooku, for someone who is so keen to show the community that you deserve a second chance, you sure do stir up a lot of trouble. Are you really saying you think it's OK that he takes a service from someone without paying? In my books that's stealing. And not like the pirating music kind, but like the actual tangible kind.

Originally Posted by System

For real life things where you have a receipt or proof of transaction.

For digital goods, it's the other way around, you usually pay before something happens, because there are a lot of easy ways to scam people out of digital goods.

Think about it, how many times have you paid after you got something online?

I pay after any service purchased online (e.g. if I were to commission someone to create a logo for me, or something to that effect), goods I always pay first though.

CHoBo already pointed out, it's not really safe to do so anyway, because a buyer can just open a PayPal dispute through PayPal and have the transaction reversed, and they will always protect the buyer in those cases and force the seller to prove that service was rendered. Bit hard to do that with coaching, especially if you are a champ and offer a satisfaction guarantee refund

[Rockstar]

Maybe we should just get KJH in here to sort this out, hey Zanooku? rofl.

Ur friend Kayhan is a Jackass. Choose your friends more carefully.

on topic: Can someone please upload some replays of this Kayhan kid playing so I can try and confirm the maphacking allegations?

[Z_z]

My name was brought into this for smack talking JazBas, I wanted to clear that mainly.

I also wanted to confirm that yes, he was in fact smack talking, but not to the severity that people have made out.

@Erasmus: I'm not saying it's ok at all, it was wrong and I am against what he did on a personal level, but I wont go so far as to distance myself from him as he still is an absolute baller in other aspects.

@iSt: Correct. It was silly to not take payment beforehand with something online. -_-

@breadfan: No, I don't think it's right, I'm not arguing against that. As for PayPal, it's not as easy as disputing something and getting a transaction reversed (I've had this happen before, I do a lot of eBaying...)

@GGPope: I was in a Skype call with some friends, then other people were invited. It's not as if I added Rogue in for the sole purpose of creating trouble.

@Rockstar: Kayhan has done wrong, but that doesn't make him a jackass. Many people have done much worse things on SEA and are still respected by many.
I don't judge people entirely based upon a small act like this. I certainly don't hold it against them forever either.
... and as for hacking... Umm... I highly doubt that. His ZvP is super solid (based on the fact that Mutalisks are incredibly strong now), and he smashes most P on SEA. He quite often dies to things like DT rush/expands, so I really doubt he hacks. That being said, bring on the replays.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Z_z

My name was brought into this for smack talking JazBas, I wanted to clear that mainly.

I also wanted to confirm that yes, he was in fact smack talking, but not to the severity that people have made out.

@Erasmus: I'm not saying it's ok at all, it was wrong and I am against what he did on a personal level, but I wont go so far as to distance myself from him as he still is an absolute baller in other aspects.

@iSt: Correct. It was silly to not take payment beforehand with something online. -_-

@breadfan: No, I don't think it's right, I'm not arguing against that. As for PayPal, it's not as easy as disputing something and getting a transaction reversed (I've had this happen before, I do a lot of eBaying...)

@GGPope: I was in a Skype call with some friends, then other people were invited. It's not as if I added Rogue in for the sole purpose of creating trouble.

@Rockstar: Kayhan has done wrong, but that doesn't make him a jackass. Many people have done much worse things on SEA and are still respected by many.
I don't judge people entirely based upon a small act like this. I certainly don't hold it against them forever either.
... and as for hacking... Umm... I highly doubt that. His ZvP is super solid (based on the fact that Mutalisks are incredibly strong now), and he smashes most P on SEA. He quite often dies to things like DT rush/expands, so I really doubt he hacks. That being said, bring on the replays.

Stop making new accounts, and go away already. Nobody wants you here and anything you say is regarded as useless.

[nirvAnA]

Thread has run its course and will be closed.

As for Zan, don't expect people to treat you with the same courtesy as a normal forum user. You have built up a very bad reputation, and fully deserve the treatment you are getting now. Your past antics are going to be fresh in people's minds whenever something you do pops up and are going to be viewed with that bias, its only natural. I did not watch the VOD myself but I will certainly take FaDeBjornbrandr or any other normal member's word over yours and so will most people.

Things are not going to be easy for you and you would have to work extra hard to redeem yourself, your aggressive posts here did not help you at all. At this present moment you are not welcomed in our community so please stop making new accounts or you will be IP banned and cannot view the site at all.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

it would be nice to see more people saying how awesome AsG is though :)

[nirvAnA]

Updated OP on request of kice. Hope no one gets scammed as he has used his name change and might try again.

AsGK = Kayhan = Nicep