[Demisesodlu]

Please help I'be been bronze since in SEA since release, I can beat gold and silver players with ease, as I am Silver in NA. IS there a Problem at why I cant get in better leagues. I just lost my last match but before that was on a 14 game winning streak. I have 80%winrate.

8/10 of times my oppenetn if favoured over me even tho im rank 1 bronze and they are also bronze and the other 2/10 times they are even. Why can't I get a rank.

I know I have flaws in my play but surely I play well enough to at least get into Silver.

Here is replay of my last game the loss. http://www.mediafire.com/?mpu4jkawsav66zc

[nirvAnA]

the short answer is its a mechanics issue

Quick Comments

	SkyBreaker:
	eCKo`Switch:

[Demisesodlu]

what do you mean by mechanics tho?

[noobinater]

I had shit like this for ages. After I finally got put into silver I was only there for a week before they put me in gold.

The ladder is dumb for some people

[Demisesodlu]

its stupid im now at a 82% winrate and im back on winstreak bronze players are too easy

[Daboo]

Well..one thing worth checking is the quality of the players your playing against. If you play well against bronze players, but dont win against silver players, the system will not see a point in putting you there, because your going to lose to silver players anyway.

Remember to be promoted you need to prove to the system that you can hang with the silver players, and that is by beating players who are above bronze, and not beat people who are around your level.

Dont worry about any of that, just focus on improving your play, and the promotions will come automatically. dont focus on what you won, focus on the losses, and see why you lost, once you correct those, you should be promoted in no time.

And at times the system might be a little worried about promoting you even when you have a good win streak..and thats because of past losses, and waiting for your mmr to catch up to promote you. But you dont really have to worry about all of this, just focus on your game and have fun.

Edit: The one thing that I saw from this replay, notice how at the engagement at 11 minutes, you cleaned up his army he had nothing in his base apart from probes and buildings. But Your re-macroed army was stuck in your base, and by the time you could get those guys to his base he could get an army against with his warp gates, and warp in close to your base with his proxy pylon, and constant re-inforcement from the proxy pylon ultimate killed you off. Terrans dont have proxy pylons, but what you can do is set waypoints to your rax, and send then to say the xel naga tower, so when you cleaned up the army, you could've marched in with your new army and killed him off.

so lesson from that game would be use waypoints for re-inforcements while fighting....and you can always runaway, if it doesnt go your way.

Quick Comments

Bugalugs McScruffin:

All good advice in this post :)

[SkyBreaker]

It may be difficult, but try not to bother yourself with what league or rank you are; play each game hoping to improve X, Y or Z in your gameplay (which you can work out by watching through your replays and pinpointing certain aspects of your play which need work).

The promotions and all that other good jazz will come in time, but in the mean-time focus on improving your gameplay and the rest will fall into place

Quick Comments

	TAhackdZ:	This man speaks truth!
	lolwut:	Yes he does
	MooZfY:
	Reere:	I hate you... for remindind me of the truth <4

[Demisesodlu]

but im at the top of my ladder right now by a good amount of points and the thing is im still getting matched with bronze even tho my end score is so high and from watching replays my macro seems to be better in most games

[theang123]

ladder just reset giv it some time

[Demisesodlu]

if i win 100 games in bronze i should be silver by then right?

[VB_Boony]

Originally Posted by Demisesodlu

if i win 100 games in bronze i should be silver by then right?

That is not how promotion works. You need to beat people that have a high MMR than you.
That means beating silver players. Once you are maintaining about a 50% or higher win ratio against silver player you will be promoted.

So if you beat 100 bronze players you will not get promoted. However if a fair few of them are silver you should get promoted no problem.

[Next_rim]

Not exactly. Allow me to repost the description of how ladder works from some other thread some couple months ago:

They way blizz explains this is pretty much as follows:

There is match-making rating (MMR), which is calculated a lot like chess handicap. It not only depends on your win/loss ration, but on what's your opponent MMR.

There is also confidence rating. This is basically +/- from your MMR in a certain range. The more you play, the lower the range, and the greater chances that you will face equal MMR. If you consistently win higher MMR players, your MMR is leveled fairly slowly, but uncertainty rating jumps up and down a lot.

Now, here comes the tricky part. When you click "quick match", the system first browses your league for available players. Chances are high that there will be 0 - many people won't be online, or will be in a game already. Then the system extends search to other bronze leagues AND widens your confidence rating, so you can be potentially matched with a bigger pool of players.

Now, not all bronze leagues are equal. There are three to five types of bronze leagues. Top bronze has about same MMR as medium silver or low gold (for example). This is done to widen the pool of potential opponents so that looking for a game doesn't take long, and promotion doesn't take forever.

If there are no players available yet, the system further increases your confidence rating, tapping in players from high gold and low plat. You get a plat opponent, lose, your mmr goes down A LITTLE, and process starts over again.

The biggest gain of MMR happen when you beat opponents of your own MMR level.

Your MMR won't adjust too fast if you win a lot of games. The more you win streak is, the higher the uncertainty range for you. If you are in bronze, win 15 games in a row, get matched with a master, win again, then master won't lose too much because of your uncertainty range. The system supposed you were a master, matched you with another master, and you won. Means your opp was playing supposedly equal, but for you, MMR went up as for an non-equal match (which isn't much).

Cheesers are really fun to watch ladder-wise. They can cheese up 20 games in a row, face a well-aware master, lose, then face a well-aware diamond, lose. They get their confidence interwal shrinked to plat, then they face 5 plat in a row, cheese again, then get to play top diamond again, lose 10 in a row, and end up in mid-plat.

In contrast, a normal player progression would like this: 2 wins, match a higher mmr, 2 losses, match same mmr, 2 wins, match higher mmr, 1 win 1 losss, match even higher mmr, 1 win 1 loss. Increase MMR, rince and repeat.

To add, the points system doesn't affect your placement at all. It is 100% psychological. For example, you make it to #1 diamond with 1000 points. Your mmr is around mid-diamond atm. You progress and get your MMR up to top diamond. You are still #1 diamond, but with 1500 points. Now you start getting matched with low masters. You lose to all masters, but keep winning all diamonds. Your points go up since you don't lose as much points to masters, but your MMR (read - skill) is not progressing.

What you actually see is #1 in ladder and points growing, which makes your e-peen bigger and encourages you to play more. Same reason Blizz hid losses, since if you see your win/loss ration, points stop to matter to you.

Quick Comments

	Nobunaga:
	EXCL:	the best no nonsence description i've read
	dazaris:
	pkyz:
	Reere:	holy crap, this deserves a sticky

[Demisesodlu]

yeah but the problem is im not getting matched against any silver players to beat them so I can be promoted. So your saying every time i beat a more favored or same favored bronze i get closer to facing silver?

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by Demisesodlu

yeah but the problem is im not getting matched against any silver players to beat them so I can be promoted. So your saying every time i beat a more favored or same favored bronze i get closer to facing silver?

If your beating people who are favored, it means your beating players with higher MMR. Keep that up and you'll start vsing people with silver MMR = promotion soon. Just keep playing.

[ToRDeathsFang]

I was Bronze from October last year 'till April this year....dayum that's have a year. Then it took me 2 weeks to get to gold

EDIT:Aean got vr icon good 4 u

[Demisesodlu]

I just palyed 3 games I was favored for all of that so that means my mmr wont go up right?

[ToRDeathsFang]

Basically
When your favoured, you gain very little MMR
When your slightly favoured, you gain little MMR
When it's teams even, you gain a decent amount of MMR
When your opponent is slightly favoured, you gain a lot of MMR
When your opponent is favoured, you gain A LOT of MMR
is how i think it goes

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

[SkyBreaker]

Originally Posted by DeathsFang

Basically
When your favoured, you gain very little MMR
When your slightly favoured, you gain little MMR
When it's teams even, you gain a decent amount of MMR
When your opponent is slightly favoured, you gain a lot of MMR
When your opponent is favoured, you gain A LOT of MMR
is how i think it goes

That's how I've always thought of it, it makes sense logically too! Although I never put excessive amounts of thought into it either; I always just try to focus on playing better with each game :]

[Hybrid]

Hey there!

I was in bronze for god damn ages, All i focused on was to be in Diamond which was the top league in the begining. But really when you think about it, the game is pretty much the same , yeah maybe a higher level of play at GM level but overall there are no different units etc, they just USE the units better/are better at multi tasking and have a more refined build orders/timings etc.

But anyway what i am trying to say is this instead of focusing on "i want to be in silver" and why am i not playing them, focus on aspects in your game you need to improve, like scouting your opponent and reacting on what army you need, really focus on the basics, and when you start to get them you will start to move up the ladder rankings. Thats when i started to move up, when i started to focus on improving 1 thing in my game, then added another thing. There are still a ton of things to improve in my game, but i am in platinum now, and that seemed to help me. Don't get to caught up about it, just try to play the best you can every game. It will simply click one game and you will start to move up.

I havent watched your replay as i am currently at work, but it looks like someone has pointed out some things to you already. Also Watch higher level replays and watch your own too, see what differences they make to you with timings, units, everything in general. Have fun playing to, your making it out to be a grind by playing in bronze.

Quick Comments

PiG:

[Nemo]

I've checked your last 10 games. 10 bronze and each time 10 to 14 points in victory and defeats, so the game judges that they were at your level. As you win more than you loose, your MMR is increasing but as you're are still loosing games (even if ratio of defeat is low, it doesn't try to "accelerate" your progression by giving you players with largely better MMR (Silver or Gold).

The Bronze league is the deeper one, so as long as you don't encounter Silver player at least half the time, you cannot know where exactly you are in the Bronze division. Points don't mean much in that division (and until Master in fact), just the number of games you play.

To give you an example, I was promoted to Silver when half my games were against Silver and the other half against Gold.

Just continue to play and improve, it will come soon enough.

Replay Analysis

1. 1rst supply 1 SCV too late. Suply blocked
2. 3 rax+ gaz before the Orbital Command, that's not a valid build order (and you forget to make a marine) go look there (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?p=28591#post28591) and in TGM
3. 1 SCV on gaz only for long time
4. You cut SCV at 11 with 2 not working
5. You forget to make units with all your structures at all time
6. No upgardes as soon as you have your tech lab
7. Forgetting mules
8. No expand at 11"
9. 2 gas 3 guys on it instead of 6
10. Marauders are murdered by zealots and above all Immortals, always have a good marine mix in your force.
11. Bind a group of workers to a shortcut so each time you construct a building with this group shift click minerals after so they never go idle after construction

In conclusion, for me you don't have clear silver level, at your level of play you only have to improve your basic mechanics and have a decent build order (2 rax all your opponents for now). Look at the streams of Terran players of SEA SC2 too.

Quick Comments

PiG:

good points :)

[SiZeMaTTeRs]

I used to care alot about my rank and league placements, perhaps i still do

but nowadays, i care less, i just wanna approve my game better. I was in bronze and now im in silver. Once you improve your game (i.e: build workers always, mechanics, money low .. etc .. etc), u will get promoted in due time but after you get promoted into higher league, it will become more challenging and if you are not ready .. well .. my guess is you will know what happen next.

Just my 2cents

[sirhotwings]

Hi, what one of the other members said about maintaining roughly 50% win loss against a higher league of player is a correct statement.

If it helps, last night I was a gold league player in 1v1 (EU player) and I was winning a hell of a lot of games. I then began to play against platinum players and beat quite afew of them as well. I certainly beat more platinum players than I lost to. I then got frustrated playing against this protoss player and began to play all in and reckless.

I ended up losing my next 2 games then won my third and got promoted into platinum.

The exact same thing happened just now in my 2v2 arranged team league. I was in platinum rank 1 and trolled all the diamond players with my team mate. We then got paired against a master team and loss. Subsequently, we were then paired against a really high diamond team and also lost that. In our third match we won as even matched and were then promoted into diamond league.

I hope this helps.

[Muldeh]

A similar thing happened to me. One day I had an 8 win streak against gold players (I was in silver). The next I had a 5 loss streak. I was so demoralised that I went and played oblivion for 2 days instead. When I came back, the first game I played I won and was promoted to gold.

[PantlessPete]

You know there's a pretty good manual on this site that might help you out!

[Meatex]

there is also an uncertainty aspect to the equation meaning if you have a sudden long winning streak or losing streak you don't gain as much or lose as much

Learn to go marine marauder off of 1 base for starters
just go 3 rax 1 reactor and 2 techlab and practice building an army off of that with no bumps (supply blocks)

[ToRXypha]

The system doesnt promote while the uncertainty level is high, so basicly if you are on long win streak vs high MMR it wont raise the MMR much but raises the Uncertainty. it just means basicly, it wont promote till its sure where your going, it maybe thinking to promote a cpl leagues in one go. when your win rate levels back out to 50-60% it will promote imo as that says your uncertainty level will come down and the MMR will raise.

[DiuCadit]

Yeah it's tricky to get out of Bronze. Many players have such a low MMR that even though you win a ton you get so little MMR from them. Keep plugging away and you'll get to Silver and all your MMR troubles will go away.

[Celldweller]

you think...
therefore you are

[ToRPandarine]

I got demoted to bronze in season 2 from silver. Tried so hard to get back in but never did. Instead, I got a few tips here and there, stuck to a build and just played up the mechanics. When season 3 came along, BAMN! Silver You can do it!!

[MazEi]

I wasn't exactly 'stuck' in bronze back then but I just kept at it and season by season I'm going up the leagues. Season 2 was in Silver then now S3 in Gold. Just keep playing man and all that matters is how good you do, not what crest is shown in your profile.

[Next_rim]

I've been stuck in diamond forever( I placed plat in beta, then when they made diamond, I placed diamond. In may this year I got sc2, placed bronze, got diamond in few days, and been there since then.

Gonna go make a thread "stuck in diamond"...>_>

[Snx`Azz]

basically all u have to do is streak. system will promote u very quickly if u go on a 10 game win-streak.

[Apostrophe]

Thanks for the info. I got matched up to a silver-player just a couple of games ago and I lost, but that was after a two-streak win against bronze players who are much favoured than me.

[Neoneoz]

I would think that practice partners could really make you improve fast .

[StitcH]

Get someone who's pretty solid in mechanics of Starcraft 2 and they will point out your mistakes. bad habits => gg

[alttotoro]

I think the biggest problem lower players have is floating minerals... Get your macro down before strategy and you will find yourself losing to micro only battles which from there you can dissect your build and improve.

[TABottles]

Not to burst any bubbles and it may sound stupid but I have found that NA BSG players are much worse than SEA BSG's. But you should be promoted soon as you have an amazing winning streak going on. The longer you grind for promotion the better - the promotion screen makes me jizz

[evskimo]

Originally Posted by TABottles

Not to burst any bubbles and it may sound stupid but I have found that NA BSG players are much worse than SEA BSG's.

Definitely. General standard seems much higher on SEA server. Even many of our bronze players can do a decent macro up to the 120 supply or so

[ScubaBear]

Yeah, don't be bothered by your league. hard but true. I was also focused on winning too much and forget about other important things. Just play, improve and leagues will follow. I believe that the matchmaking system is smart enough to match players on our skill level.

[Xzacutionar]

Learn a lot more builds than to just stick with one!

Sometimes, you get too used to using 1 build and it puts you in your comfort zone. When you get beaten using that build, you immediately feel down because to you, its the best build ever that matches your playstyle.

Infact you must have knowledge of multiple builds for you to tweak your way out of certain situations.

[DtorR]

OP in order to get out of bronze league you are going to need to improve ten-fold in all your mechanics, game knowledge and memory power. If you can't afford the GM manual then perhaps this might help then.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=208343

It goes over the basics and shows you how you can improve your mechanics, macro and micro. The pdf is a bit of a read, so have a look at it and go at your own pace. Best of luck in your gaming and quest to break out of bronze.

[Statix]

i love being in bronze league, was in gold when all this started then didnt play for ages cos of WOW, made a new account after come corruption on my game . .cant beat digital sign in man! Anyway, i love it. win most of my games but it really has me analysing myself when i lose! I know im not supposed to be here (hehe he says as i win all my games where the oponent is slightly favoured and better and even a gold player the other day was like bz . . seriously? i felt smug!

Dont worry about being in the league you are in, its all macro to me and self competition, you know if ur loosing all ur games then ur in a league where you physically cant practice enough to win. Its like golf, the better you get the more you have to play, as a 30 year old awith family with a decent job, getting back into plat (like on my 4v4 league) i know im going to have to drill injects and map control and all that stuff i USED to do when i didnt have all this other stuff going on. MAn love this game, if any bsg league players want a prac partner then give us a shout! better than playing vhard ai, which for some reason i cant beat regular any more (unless i cheese it) . . man my practice needs to get better!

[idiotech]

I just got promoted from bronze to silver tonight. It took a lifetime. I was beating silver and gold players consistently for a week or more before it happened. Unfortunately you just have to be patient and work on your mechanics

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

F*CK YEAH! Bout time lol

[ToRSpartaz]

Doe feeling as though your in Bronze count? Because the way ive been playing lately I feel that way. *Siiiigh*

[entropyvx]

I am doing Bronze to diamond "speedruns" on SEA (as random) and US (protoss) with my smurf accounts and it took 55 games to get from bronze to silver with 3 losses. Yeah I thought it would be much sooner. I am about 50-3 on SEA as random as well. Yeah it takes a really really long time.

[Daboo]

^^ 55 games to get to silver.. did you purposely tank games to get to bronze? 55 seems like a really long time,maybe caused by a string of losses previously.
But I remember blizzard saying that bronze is the toughest to get out of, apparently there are 7 different levels within bronze as opposed to 4 in the other leagues.

[entropyvx]

On a side note.
Here is a video you might enjoy
"Forever Bronze"

You Tube

You Tube

You can download the MP3 here: http://www.mediafire.com/?coolpwxtnwv87in

[ToRMaverick]

Originally Posted by entropyvx

On a side note.
Here is a video you might enjoy
"Forever Bronze"

ROFL.... havent heard this one. Im gunna sing it all day long at work tomorrow.....

[Rageboredguy]

ROFL at the song, very creative lyrics on that one.

[Goldie]

haha doesn't that make u feel much better ^^