[Dox]

+ [Results] +

1st: FXO mOOnGLaDe ($350)
2nd: aLt iaguz ($100)
3rd: nGen JazBas ($50)

+ [Replays] +

Dox Cup 1: Grand Finals (Click)
Dox Cup 1: Full Bracket (Click)
Dox Cup 1: Complete Archive (Click)

+ [Details] +

In just under 5 hours, the first (of many!) "Dox Cup" tournament will be kicking off, with players from all over the South East Asian region participating.

Sporting over 200 registrations (for an anticipated bracket of 128 players), I've decided to dismiss the list of reserves and increase the size of the bracket to 256 players. The following players have been "seeded" to the Round of 32, based on their tournament winnings in StarCraft 2 thus far.
(A few other lucky individuals will also find themselves with randomly allocated byes in the first round!)

FXO mOOnGLaDe
ArchaicMSI Deth
aLt iaguz
inFi TargA

Future seedings will be based on points earned from these events exclusively.

+ [Races / Countries registered] +

Event begins: Sat, July 16th, 11:00AM AEST / 9:00AM SGT.
Brackets: Dox Cup 1 Brackets
Stream: KellyMilkies
Live Report: @Dox_au on Twitter

[Xenomorph]

Interesting the most of the entrants are zergs. However on your nation breakdown you forgot korea =(

[dippa]

So more than 10 koreans signed up? o_O

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by dippa

So more than 10 koreans signed up? o_O

no =/ just the 1 to my knowledge, ST_KingKong

EDIT: Just realised situation with international players. plz ignore my prev comment/s

[dippa]

just going off the "more than 200 registrations" and doing the math from there ;(

[Dox]

Originally Posted by dippa

just going off the "more than 200 registrations" and doing the math from there ;(

A lot of people pulled out. I still counted them as registrations though.

[Fourby]

Originally Posted by Dox

A lot of people pulled out. I still counted them as registrations though.

+ some people didnt post their country and/or race?

[dippa]

tgun vs redarchon first round

perfect.

[nirvAnA]

mafia vs rev too. but hey its random drawings and sometimes that happens, its unavoidable.

good thing tho its double elimination!

[Nemo]

Congrats for this tournament Dox ! Organizers are a huge part of building a gaming community and this one seems huge.
You managed the Majorgate the right way. The tournament organizer is God in his place and everyone has to follow his rules or don't subscribe.
I'm hugely impressed that you're all doing this alone and even more that the cash-prize is 100% from your own money. Oo

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[dippa]

Time for some reflection.

- The seedings for the DOX Cup will get more accurate with more results, so that's fine. Random draws are random but most of the people didn't show up anyway, so no dramas.

- Have a double check-in to reduce the amount of walkovers. One check-in 24 hours before the event starts, and another one hour before the first round is played.

- Be more forceful when dealing with smurfs. **** off instead of ten lines of evidence, stuff like that. (It's your tournament, don't **** around, especially with super-sized brackets.)

- Maybe talk to some of the TL/ESL admins and see how difficult it is to implement some form of online check-in. A third-party site might also have the functionality, although I can't think of any off the top of my head.

- Don't stop being awesome ^.^ I thought you did an amazing job, hombre.

[Dox]

Cheers for the feedback. I've taken it all on board, shall reply to some of the points below.

Originally Posted by dippa

- The seedings for the DOX Cup will get more accurate with more results, so that's fine. Random draws are random but most of the people didn't show up anyway, so no dramas.

I think the seeds were perfectly accurate. Two of the seeds placed in the grand finals. One of them had to forfeit due to driving to the airport. The other was eliminated. But yeah, today's standings will determine seeds for future events.

- Have a double check-in to reduce the amount of walkovers. One check-in 24 hours before the event starts, and another one hour before the first round is played.

Yeah the sign-up facilities and check-in will function just like the rest of the tournaments hosted here at SC2SEA/ESL. Wasn't able to implement it for this event at such short notice though.

- Be more forceful when dealing with smurfs. **** off instead of ten lines of evidence, stuff like that. (It's your tournament, don't **** around, especially with super-sized brackets.)

I'm afraid that's not going to happen. Just because I'm running it, doesn't mean I can be a jerk. I tried to be as civil and accommodating to MajOr as possible.

- Maybe talk to some of the TL/ESL admins and see how difficult it is to implement some form of online check-in. A third-party site might also have the functionality, although I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Already covered.

- Don't stop being awesome ^.^ I thought you did an amazing job, hombre.

Thanks!

[Dox]

Oh yeah, and the reason I opened the thread:

* All replays of games I commentated have been uploaded (including Grand Finals).
* All of the replays which were e-mailed to me will be uploaded in the morning.

Links have been added to the OP.

[dippa]

I'm not saying to tell people to **** off out of hand, but there comes a point when you've dealt with things reasonably and your (valuable) time is just being wasted.

Wasn't complaining about the seeds either,

ps. post those videos already

[nirvAnA]

Its hard for me to leave a feedback list because I absolutely love what you're doing and don't want you to feel its not appreciated! Nevertheless I know you would take on any suggestions you feel will make the events better so thats the only reason why i am writing this and here are some of my thoughts.

Seedings - Top 4 seedings were fantastic of course but I feel this could have been extended to top 16 or 32, especially in a large tournament. The exact order of seedings isn't as important as it is to define them as a top 32 group as this is to avoid first round matchups like revenant vs mafia or redarcon vs tgun. Another benefit of this is the top players get walkovers if the bracket isn't full which helps reduce their playing time as they are likely to be in the tournament longer.

OP Information - OP rules on news page weren't very clear (apart from the participation rule), people kept asking in the channel how to report results, if they needed to send in replays, what map it was on. some didnt know it was Bo3 etc. Of course its obvious to some people, "its dox cup of course we should report to dox" and all the information was in the thread and brackets page (thats how i knew too and could copy/past people who were asking the link) but we are organisers and sadly have to "spoon feed" people most of the time by including the most vital informational in an clear accessible place in the OP.

Admin Help- 1-2 admins to help so that brackets could be processed faster. challonge allows admin access for the brackets so its easy for multiple people to manage it. perhaps could have assigned a trusted admin to handle just the walkovers and double checking of the missing players as well as handling all the random faq spam in the channel allowing you to focus and handle the main bracket yourself.

Prize Structure - imo abit too unforgiving and too "top prize heavy." for e.g mafia played something like 10 hours and ended up top 8 with nothing.

instead of
350, 150, 50

maybe have
250, 150, 50, 20, 10, 10, 5, 5

so players get at least something for going that far and more pple will be encouraged to join thinking they might have a higher chance to win at least something. also felt $500 was huge! could have had two smaller dox cups $250, would have had same turn out. basically in SEA anything over $250 gets 95% of the community tournament players to join.

Integration with our events - If you are open to this idea i think it will be fantastic. Kinda like the masters cup and GPDs where the top GPD players each week earn seedings into the masters cup with a $120 prize pool at the end of the month. For the dox cup maybe you can have the top 4 of the CO weekly qualify each week, and this is kinda the "open qualification" which anyone can join, meaning that gives you 4 Open Qualifications tournaments. At the end of the month you have an exclusive 32-man dox cup with 16 invited players and 16 top 4 CO players and have a very nice and manageable double elim 32 bracket which everyone had a chance to qualify for, and win prizes along the way. (the co prize) Also makes the viewer wanna sit down and watch it till the end as its much shorter and of a higher level of play, less down time, little or no walkovers etc.

Emailing replays - too much work for players imo, and gamers are generally lazy and dont want to send it or take too long and need prompting, which makes the reporting of results delayed. Also no1 ever watches the replays of unknown player a vs B in the ro256. normally we just included the winners replay pack or from ro16 onwards cause thats when it gets tense and what people want to watch. i guess this helps in your smurf detection process, an alternative method could be to check ips on sc2sea for suspected smurfers.

check in system - this is a problem sc2sea still has today, so i don't have any suggested solutions for it. Our sc2seas coder came up with some custom tourney check in script for the SEASL which was fantastic and helped reduce alot of walkovers but that has not been used since as it needs some coding for each event. probably gonna get some custom coding done on the site in the near future to integrate it with our tournament script as walkovers are really annoying and spoil tournaments!

Final Words!
Anyway i hope you have found some of this feedback helpful. I love your spirit and what you're doing as well as your casting towards the end. I wish i could do something to help, hearing the strain / exhaustion in your voice as you had so little sleep and were busy right from the early morning but yet still went on to cast and did a great job!! hero . Hope the smurfing incident and "backlash" does not dampen your spirits, do note that these are the vast minority of people. Its actually something i encounter on daily basis at sc2sea too with 4-5 "trouble makers" with zero appreciation who think they deserve special treatment and that I created the site for their sole enjoyment. They are just the most vocal thats why it may seem like sometimes thats the "shared opinion" but never let that dishearten you. Looking forward to many more dox cups!

For me when i put things in perspective its always just these same group of 4-5 troublemakers who are the only ones causing the problems every time. The vast majority of the community greatly appreciates what you're doing and continuing to take your time and money to host events etc knowing you have created this experience for them always makes it worthwhile.

[Dox]

Woo! Some more valuable feedback. I'll reply below.

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Seedings - Top 4 seedings were fantastic of course but I feel this could have been extended to top 16 or 32, especially in a large tournament. The exact order of seedings isn't as important as it is to define them as a top 32 group as this is to avoid first round matchups like revenant vs mafia or redarcon vs tgun. Another benefit of this is the top players get walkovers if the bracket isn't full which helps reduce their playing time as they are likely to be in the tournament longer.

To be honest, this was a gauging event for me. I had no idea how much interest I would spark from the community. If you recall on one of the first few pages of my registration thread, I actually made a comment like, "I hope we fill the bracket." The response was overwhelming! We nearly doubled it. So yeah, the format will be much more accommodating next time. I've awarded points to the top 32 players and will publish a list sometime in the next few weeks. (Really busy)

OP Information - OP rules on news page weren't very clear (apart from the participation rule), people kept asking in the channel how to report results, if they needed to send in replays, what map it was on. some didnt know it was Bo3 etc. Of course its obvious to some people, "its dox cup of course we should report to dox" and all the information was in the thread and brackets page (thats how i knew too and could copy/past people who were asking the link) but we are organisers and sadly have to "spoon feed" people most of the time by including the most vital informational in an clear accessible place in the OP.

Over the last 11 years I've found that no matter how accessible the information is, people will always sit in a channel ask for information rather than alt-tab and look at it. All of the information was included on the brackets page, as I knew that was the one place all players were guaranteed to look. Unfortunately I was planning on using my own bracket system for the event but I ran out of time and had to fall back on Challonge. The next event will be much smoother (and include check-in's and win reporting!) I didn't really have any interaction in the channel, but I did have like 200 PM windows open. :P

Admin Help- 1-2 admins to help so that brackets could be processed faster. challonge allows admin access for the brackets so its easy for multiple people to manage it. perhaps could have assigned a trusted admin to handle just the walkovers and double checking of the missing players as well as handling all the random faq spam in the channel allowing you to focus and handle the main bracket yourself.

I managed fine with updating the brackets until the MajOr drama happened. That really detracted from the flow of the event unfortunately. Next time we'll have a win reporting system and users won't need to report their results to an admin.

Prize Structure - imo abit too unforgiving and too "top prize heavy." for e.g mafia played something like 10 hours and ended up top 8 with nothing.

instead of
350, 150, 50

maybe have
250, 150, 50, 20, 10, 10, 5, 5

so players get at least something for going that far and more pple will be encouraged to join thinking they might have a higher chance to win at least something. also felt $500 was huge! could have had two smaller dox cups $250, would have had same turn out. basically in SEA anything over $250 gets 95% of the community tournament players to join.

We'll see... I plan on making each event bigger than the last. I don't see any real value in a prize under $100 to be honest. Initially I wasn't even going to give a prize to 3rd place, but I felt it was quite harsh to someone who would have spent hours battling their way out of the lower bracket and have nothing to show for it. I'm thinking something like $500, $200, $100 for the next event. I'll give it some more thought between now and then.

Integration with our events - If you are open to this idea i think it will be fantastic. Kinda like the masters cup and GPDs where the top GPD players each week earn seedings into the masters cup with a $120 prize pool at the end of the month. For the dox cup maybe you can have the top 4 of the CO weekly qualify each week, and this is kinda the "open qualification" which anyone can join, meaning that gives you 4 Open Qualifications tournaments. At the end of the month you have an exclusive 32-man dox cup with 16 invited players and 16 top 4 CO players and have a very nice and manageable double elim 32 bracket which everyone had a chance to qualify for, and win prizes along the way. (the co prize) Also makes the viewer wanna sit down and watch it till the end as its much shorter and of a higher level of play, less down time, little or no walkovers etc.

I thought about this and to be honest, I'm still on the fence about it. There are obvious benefits to this (especially from my point of view), but on the other hand I do like the "clean slate" opportunities. I'll consider it for future events.

Emailing replays - too much work for players imo, and gamers are generally lazy and dont want to send it or take too long and need prompting, which makes the reporting of results delayed. Also no1 ever watches the replays of unknown player a vs B in the ro256. normally we just included the winners replay pack or from ro16 onwards cause thats when it gets tense and what people want to watch. i guess this helps in your smurf detection process, an alternative method could be to check ips on sc2sea for suspected smurfers.

I think all of the players were extremely co-operative. All of the replays you see in this folder (Dox Cup #1 Replays) were e-mailed to me by the players. It's more of a favor to the players than it is to the viewers. There were plenty of opportunities to e-mail the games between rounds due to downtime. Again, this is a feature I'd like to integrate better in the future... but more information on this later.

check in system - this is a problem sc2sea still has today, so i don't have any suggested solutions for it. Our sc2seas coder came up with some custom tourney check in script for the SEASL which was fantastic and helped reduce alot of walkovers but that has not been used since as it needs some coding for each event. probably gonna get some custom coding done on the site in the near future to integrate it with our tournament script as walkovers are really annoying and spoil tournaments!

Not a problem. Fortunately I didn't need to invest any thought into this at all. The TL thread sparked the interest of some individuals who I'm working closely with to resolve this! community.

Final Words!
Anyway i hope you have found some of this feedback helpful. I love your spirit and what you're doing as well as your casting towards the end. I wish i could do something to help, hearing the strain / exhaustion in your voice as you had so little sleep and were busy right from the early morning but yet still went on to cast and did a great job!! hero . Hope the smurfing incident and "backlash" does not dampen your spirits, do note that these are the vast minority of people. Its actually something i encounter on daily basis at sc2sea too with 4-5 "trouble makers" with zero appreciation who think they deserve special treatment and that I created the site for their sole enjoyment. They are just the most vocal thats why it may seem like sometimes thats the "shared opinion" but never let that dishearten you. Looking forward to many more dox cups!

For me when i put things in perspective its always just these same group of 4-5 troublemakers who are the only ones causing the problems every time. The vast majority of the community greatly appreciates what you're doing and continuing to take your time and money to host events etc knowing you have created this experience for them always makes it worthwhile.

I absolutely do find it helpful. I know my "answer to everything" attitude probably makes it look like I'm comfortable with everything as-is and am not willing to change, but this was simply an event to gauge and generate interest. Expect bigger and brighter things in the future, and I'll be relying on community feedback as the driver.

It was an exhausting event after having only slept 4 hours (my original bracket plan fell through so I was up until 5:00AM desperately setting up a contingency), but none of it really got to me. I'll continue pushing the SEA scene forward with more events in the future.

[Dox]

All replays have now been uploaded!

Download here.

[Nemo]

Dox,

After reading debriefings and especially yours and nirvAnA's (can't add more appreciation on your post, neither Dox ;-) ), here a few ideas I had. Maybe one of them could be useful in the process of brainstorming.

1 - You may setup a "organizer team" for you tournament. Your team can be composed by anyone you have a minimum confidence in (they can be lowly bronze, team spirit and efficiency is important there). Having a team allow you to make things you wouldn't have time to do. For example, you can have 2 persons dedicated to finding sponsors. You will find that money attract more money. If you put 500$ of your own in the tournament, it's easier to find 2-3 or more sponsors that put the same money in it. There are many pros to setup a team:
* It's more pleasant to work together than alone
* You increase greatly the number of things you can do via your team (make advertisings, some videos, graphics, administrative work etc.)
* You have security by redundancy if any problem happens (if you have an unavoidable impeachment as live sadly impose us sometimes, in case you have to manage a problem like the Majorgate, etc.)
2 - At some time your tournament will drive even more interest and especially from pro gamers, especially if you get sponsors who can add to the cash pool. You may want to keep its root of "great tournament for the whole SEA community" but let foreign pro gamers participate. I think there are formulas that can mix the pros with the casual players in the beginning and then split the tournament in 2, a part for the 16 winners and another for the 16 first non-winner SEA. The cash-prize divided for the most part to the best and a minor part (1/3th, 1/4th) to the casual SEA gamers.
It could take this form for example:
* Groups of 32 seeded. 5 games with Swiss-system tournament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament) You affect 1 organizer per group to manage it (and maybe one caster for each)
* Best 2 of each group go for the "Major tournament" (256 players makes 8 32-groups and 16 players in Major tournament) (with your star caster, Kelly I guess)
* Two best SEA players of each group (non already in the "Major tournament") go to the "SEA tournament" (with your second best caster)
With this each player have played at least 5 games in the tournament and had the chance to play a "big fish". You have your major tournament and your SEA community final Tournament too (you can do them on Sunday if necessary).

There are certainly problems I don't see with this formula but it's mainly brainstorming that might give another point of thinking.

Gl and, once again, big props for what you already did.