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LennX · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:15 PM

For those of you guys that didn't see the new "macro" maps from Blizzard, please refer to http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1611 first

Problem 1 Test Map 4

+ Show +

Problem 2 Test Map 2 (Kerrigan Wrath)

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Please feel free to post here of other known hotspots so that we can abuse them or find counters to those abuse.

P.S Guys. You can make a difference. Start whining on the PTR forums now about these potential map imbalances @ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/1161017/. Let them hear. Let them cower before your rage. Let them know your wrath, Kerrian wrath!

NvRossi · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:18 PM

these look fine to me

zerg imba

for more check out : http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/in...65305#msg65305

Quick Comments

Nemo:

lol

Aean(: · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:29 PM

aaargh why cant i log in ptr

**Maynarde** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:43 PM

I'd imagine similar to the other maps where imbalances were blatantly obvious, this would be fixed reasonably quickly. I agree though with the difference making, if people don't post like LennX then they won't know (for some reason).

Don't think this won't happen to you other races. That could easily be a refinery / assimilator being sieged on there!

Satu · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:45 PM

If there are more than 3 horrible zerg maps (like those), I might not ladder. Blizzard needs to learn how to not troll.

Also, if delta quadrant isn't removed, then something is wrong.

**PiG** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:54 PM

I never played bw competitively but i love watching it recently. Could someone tell me if MSL/OSL have maps with ledges like this and if so do they get abused often or do the pros just rarely let their opponents occupy such a strong position?

mR.bONG789 · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiG

I never played bw competitively but i love watching it recently. Could someone tell me if MSL/OSL have maps with ledges like this and if so do they get abused often or do the pros just rarely let their opponents occupy such a strong position?

terran in bw didnt have as many air units in a usual game, players sometimes used buildings like engibay or a barrracks if the terran went mech to spot. zerg had scourge so floating your vessels away from your medic marines was super dangerous, hydras were also alot better in bw and were commonly used against mech. protoss had shuttles which could drop zealots on tanks and dragoons were alot better than stalkers

divinesage · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 3:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiG

I never played bw competitively but i love watching it recently. Could someone tell me if MSL/OSL have maps with ledges like this and if so do they get abused often or do the pros just rarely let their opponents occupy such a strong position?

I would think rarely. But then again the metagame there is different, low ground units are able to see high ground. And more importantly, mutalisks would tear through siege tanks.

ZergGirl · Sat, 16th-Jul-2011, 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiG

I never played bw competitively but i love watching it recently. Could someone tell me if MSL/OSL have maps with ledges like this and if so do they get abused often or do the pros just rarely let their opponents occupy such a strong position?

Most of the league maps were edited so that the really 'imba' stuff wasn't possible.

Lost temple 12 v 3 (position), if you were 12 you could put tanks on the cliff outside their base and hit their gas, like right south of your natural. They removed that by making it impossible for tanks to be walked there.

In the end most maps became symmetrical so it kinda eliminated itself. BW map makers were really good

Blizzard mapmakers aren't 'bad' it's just they clearly aren't thinking about stupid little things like this.

(but they were weird, they would make a map that favoured one race and cycle through them randomly at times.. so it wasn't perfect hah)

AvPoker · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 2:57 PM

They don't look too bad to be honest. At least that bunker placement is not in range of the hatchery or mineral line.

LennX · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerface

They don't look too bad to be honest. At least that bunker placement is not in range of the hatchery or mineral line.

What about bunker hopping? :P

**Maynarde** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:07 PM

The bunker still easily denies a geyser and is tough to surround with any melee unit. SCVs can sit on the other side and lol while repairing it. Good spot for a pylon too imo.

ke_ivan · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:18 PM

I love you David Kim!

On a more serious note, I doubt that map's problem will stay for long. That's why it's in PTR.

Daboo · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:32 PM

I dont think test 2 will make it out in the current form, you guys should see the close spawns on that map, especially at 10'o clock and 8'o clock positions. The rush distance between the nats are so small, probably even smaller than delta, and once I park my sentry-stalker army in that small nook in the natural, I dont even need force fields to kill infinite zerg stuff, it's just very bad. I felt like I was cheating lol

If you remove close spawns the map becomes a little better, but I think that small opening can be abused in a lot of ways.

+ Show +

In tvp, his might be 4 gate, marine scv rush again ....ahh blizzard.

**SkyBreaker** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:37 PM

No need to get excessively frustrated about these things, it's called a PTR for a reason and most likely things will be tweaked, changed and adjusted before they're live.

But I do agree with posting in the PTR forum with constructive ideas :]

aLtNinja · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:42 PM

So that makes them different to any other maps how

?

**Dox** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:45 PM

People posted screenshots of the naturals on Shakuras when it was on PTR saying it would never go live like that. (Being able to reach the Hatchery with a Siege Tank on the low ground)

Just sayin...

TAhackdZ · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:55 PM

I sense....I sense...SIEGE TANKS!

Lol...Seriously Blizzard just needs to hire the GSL/MLG/ICCUP map maker dudes.

And also +1 to getting rid of Delta...OMG why is it even still in the ladder pool...

**Maynarde** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridiculisk

I sense....I sense...SIEGE TANKS!

Lol...Seriously Blizzard just needs to hire the GSL/MLG/ICCUP map maker dudes.

And also +1 to getting rid of Delta...OMG why is it even still in the ladder pool...

I forgot it was even in the map pool lol. I've vetoed it for longer than I can remember.

Nvdeth · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 4:02 PM

blizzard have a terrible track record with fixing map imbalances, not looking forward to these going live :/

**Dox** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 4:03 PM

I swear every time a new map hits the PTR, hundreds of people spend hours analysing every tiny corner of the map to find spots where Siege Tanks can reach a Geyser. :P

You can siege the entire mineral line on Metalopolis yet how often do you see it happening?

Encouraging people (who probably haven't even played on the maps yet) to "whine" (read: not mature and logical feedback) about some "potential" issues (which probably won't even occur very frequently) isn't the right approach to balance.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Listen to the wise man !

LennX · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

I swear every time a new map hits the PTR, hundreds of people spend hours analysing every tiny corner of the map to find spots where Siege Tanks can reach a Geyser. :P

You can siege the entire mineral line on Metalopolis yet how often do you see it happening?

Encouraging people (who probably haven't even played on the maps yet) to "whine" (read: not mature and logical feedback) about some "potential" issues (which probably won't even occur very frequently) isn't the right approach to balance.

It was actually a tongue in cheek response to the amount of hatred that I found on teamliquid :P
The zerg bias there is is pretty heavy. Maybe I should remember this and re word my topic next time I post here.

And btw I don't think you can squeeze in tanks in your own mineral line to siege the opponent gold unless you drop your tanks behind the mineral line? Thanks for reminding me that I can do that.

**Dox** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 4:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennX

And btw I don't think you can squeeze in tanks in your own mineral line to siege the opponent gold unless you drop your tanks behind the mineral line? Thanks for reminding me that I can do that.

I was talking about sieging the main, not the gold bases! And why would you do that when you can just use the Xel'Naga Watchtowers. :P

**kellyMILKIES** · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 4:33 PM

rofl yes. this sucks

Azure · Thu, 14th-Jul-2011, 7:21 PM

blizzard have no idea about maps.
They still havent removed close spawns on the current maps.

**cure** · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 3:13 AM

Well, like someone above mentioned, the maps are still in the PTR. Hopefully they get rid of / fix these things >_<

dippa · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 6:00 AM

I like the thread title.

"Age of Zerg Fanboys rage"

It's like saying there were other periods when Zerg's didn't rage. Like during the BETA when TvZ was *broken* because Thors did splash damage. Or when roaches no longer cost 1 supply. Or when they no longer had 2 armor. Or when Steppes of War wasn't in the map pool. Or when IdrA wasn't having his period (or playing against blink stalkers).

I don't think it's the races fault or the actual state of imbalance, but a case of too many people taking their cues from an asshole (starts with I and occasionally ends with GG) with a massive failure in the maturity department.

(general rage at multiple forums fyi, not targeting anyone specifically here)

noobinater · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 9:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't think it's the races fault or the actual state of imbalance, but a case of too many people taking their cues from an asshole (starts with I and occasionally ends with GG) with a massive failure in the maturity department.

Best post ITT.

(a nexus is just as vulnerable as a hatch but nobody seems to be crying from a toss perspective!)

Nobunaga · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 7:43 AM

Clearly the blizzard solution to this problem is to add regenerating destructible rocks that are only targetable by air units.

ToRsupapower · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 7:57 AM

i don't care about the new maps, i just hope that they take out delta quadrant and slag pits...... as a zerg player of course i frikn hate em

Hocus · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 9:46 AM

neither of those examples looked imba to me, cant imagine a counter attack not winning the game in the tank example, that position isnt protecting anything.. and as for bunkers if your proactive with drones/overlords early game, that shouldnt go up, its an obvious spot to put a bunker so block it... just saying

**iMSystem** · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 10:01 AM

Wait, you can set up siege tanks on the Towers in metal to shell your gold minerals.

OP IMBA NUFF PLZ OMG WHY DOES BLIZZ HATE ZERG!!1!!1!11!!11!

Serious note, every time a zerg winges about map balance or something like that, I laugh, maybe because I play terran, but also because there are multiple ways to defend such imbalances.
And about these Maps, its been said many times but this is why Blizz has a PTR for a reason, to test these things, and beleive it or not but when your making maps under a working enviroment (IE not for fun) you have a tendancy to go-over a few things that are important, and again this is why we have the PTR.

ZergGirl · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 4:24 PM

pigterran being piggy again.

CZE · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 4:45 PM

Lol at how every zerg complains about cliffs yet always fail to point out that without these types of nuances terran would be average. Sure there are extremities in map-making like Jungle Basin but this is far from it.

Dippa's point is pretty accurate. There really needs to be less whinge.

biogenie · Fri, 15th-Jul-2011, 9:46 PM

being a zerg player... needless to say delta - 1 its out of my map preference the moment i knew how to use it.

as for the new maps.. man... i thought they were looking into making it more macro.. but it seems like all-ins for Ts wld kick zerg's nuts right off the bat >_<~

duanloves · Sat, 16th-Jul-2011, 2:12 AM

Somehow I think the people from Blizzard are humans which makes them bias towards Terrans.
You can see by how they make the map architecture like the high/low ground cliffs and plateau.
Sometimes I wonder why i still play protoss

ZergGirl · Sat, 16th-Jul-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duanloves

Somehow I think the people from Blizzard are humans which makes them bias towards Terrans.
You can see by how they make the map architecture like the high/low ground cliffs and plateau.
Sometimes I wonder why i still play protoss

because you get walking siege tanks \o/

I'm curious though, how many people have tried the new maps?

**TAEdgE** · Sat, 16th-Jul-2011, 9:52 PM

Many variations of 6 pool will be created

dippa · Sun, 17th-Jul-2011, 3:10 AM

I believe, at this point in time in the thread, the following video is appropriate.

You Tube

optiX · Tue, 19th-Jul-2011, 6:49 PM

Mutas would easily clean up those seige tanks with nothing terran can do.