[SONATA]

hi guys this is my 1st post. just got this game yesterday and found it fun. was put into diamond after my placements and was thinking to maybe go pro with this game. Btw, i am 18 and still schooling. so, at this age and having school, what is the time i should put into sc2 a day to go pro? 3 hours or 4 hours? and is custom or laddering better?

Cheers guys :P

[Tom]

You better not be trolling.

The odds of going professional and making a decent living out of it are astronomically low. I think your effort would be far better spent training for school. Only the top level "pros" make a decent living.

By all means play starcraft, just think of it as "leisure time" rather than training to go professional. You probably need to custom and ladder - too many custom games teach you to play only against certain players/styles whereas too much laddering gives you only a superficial or cheesy understanding of strategies.

In terms of time, imo quality beats quantity every time. I've found it possible to maintain a solid grandmaster ranking only playing a few 1v1s per week.

[SONATA]

i see...cos my grades r already failing even before i started sc2 . so yea was thinking maybe i would have a chance in sc2. :P and no. i am not trolling. and no trolling please. just advices.

[Cosmos]

average pros trains 8 to 10 hrs a day.

[SONATA]

0.o hmmm 8 hours... think besides sch i shall play 20 - 30 ladder games a day. tht shud do it. :P right?

[Tom]

I see. Here's the deal. For most levels of play, starcraft is like training a monkey. If you play a lot, you will get good, even if you have no particular natural talent for the game. So if you want to get good, play a lot.

But to play at a level where it is possible to make money, playing a lot is not enough. You also need to be naturally gifted and train with the right people. I'm talking "I picked up the game two weeks ago I can beat most grandmasters" gifted, not "well I steadily worked my way up from silver to diamond in a few months and with a few month months practice I will probably crack Masters" gifted.

So if the question is "how much do I need to train to be good", the answer is - either play a lot, train with the right people, or both.

If, as you have in fact asked, the question is "what is the time i should put into sc2 a day to go pro?", then I would say the answer is - if you don't have what it takes naturally, no amount of time will compensate. Playing 12 hours a day, 7 days a week will make you good, probably really good, but I don't think it will pay the rent.

I hate to sound like your mother, it just really worries me when people say things like "I'm failing school. I think I might become a professional video game player".

[nGenLight]

Talented, xx amount of RTS experience, and probably 10 hours a day 6 days a week. You up for it?

[SONATA]

yes sir! i will do my best! is there any competion in sea?

[Cute]

I'm pretty sure that the guys on SOTG have talked about this before. Basically they said that waking up randomly one morning and deciding "Hey, I think I'll quit everything I'm doing to try and play a videogame at a professional level" is dumb. If you're good and have what it takes, you should be able to work your way up to a high level (winning online tournaments and such) while balancing school/work. Then maybe you should consider playing full time if it's what you really want to do.

That said, diamond after placements is pretty impressive. Do you have prior RTS experience?

[SONATA]

erm... not really... only played dota and css. HAHA

[ke_ivan]

Well, boxer says that he plays 30 games every day to upkeep his current skill level.

[Benji]

Whats your previous gaming experience?

[SONATA]

ERM... just dota and counterstrike. haha

[Makra]

No RTS experience and you get straight into diamond? That seems like natural talent to me. But give it a few weeks. If you shoot straight up to masters and maybe grandmasters, you could have what it takes. But who decides to go pro the day after starting something?!

[Benji]

I hope what i write here doesnt come across as harsh, but anyway:

Getting placed in Diamond would be a pretty good high 5 moment for you, you proberbly feel like you are so naturally good at this game that you could easily make it pro with a little work. Fact of the matter is that you are significantly far away from being pro at this game. Your lack of RTS experiance is your first hurdle as well as lack of knowledge of the game and as a result you will likely hit a wall, where you won't progress ladderwise for a long time.

Lets say you work hard, and after many months (yes, it will take months of playing 8-10 hours a day until this pays off) you get to the top of SEA. Top of SEA isnt anything special (Sorry Whoevers no.1 atm ), you're able to compete with the top players in other regions and youll have to play over on NA or KR with the best in the world. Then you're presented with your next problem. Sponsers. Sponsers in SEA are rare and only recruit the best of the best and even then they are hard pressed getting a sponser over NA or EU players. Why? Because we are so far away from everything else, and the cost of sending you to tournaments will need to be worth the investment. Chances are you will need to move overseas to have any real success. Are you ready to move overseas?

After all this, if you manage to make it big, realize that in almost a year of SC2, only ~10-20 players IN THE WORLD make more money gaming than they could by having an ordinary job. You need to do it simply because you love the game, and with 5 games played I don't think you're in a position to say that you do yet.

Don't give up on school, if you're failing there, work harder on it.

Quick Comments

cuTesT:

Reality check from Benji :)

[Next_rim]

I tried to go pro in wc3 when I was 16. Failed miserably, since I had school, g/f, fencing and parents. Basically, you have to give up everything in order to perform anywhere remotely close to a low-pro level. Practiced maybe 7 hours a day.

I only managed to beat the ladder up to level 40-ish, biggest tourney for me was wc3l, where i got to round 1/16 and was roflstomped by Crafty (at best 10-th strongest German player at the time). I played Deadman couple times too, but meh, he is superior by a vast margin. No wonder he went to WCG for Russia every time. Guess I have no talent for high-lvl RTS.

So I got a degree in financial analysis and currently working in corporate banking. It actually feels much easier both physically and mentally than beating ladder 7 hours straight

[ke_ivan]

Until one of us becomes the CEO of a Fortune 500 company that endorses RTS games, chances for sponsorships can be slim. I'm hitting a brick wall myself looking for continuing sponsors for SC2 tournaments. The best shot I have is convincing them that this is a form of international chess. And really, how many people play chess professionally? Yeah, sponsorships are a big problem. SlayerSBoxeR is an exception.

[Roz]

I think having no previous RTS background is not that bad. I personally dont have any prior RTS experience but i mean yes it certainly does mean that you will have to put in more time than other people to catch up in terms of mechanics and everything. To say that you wanna go pro after 5 games is kinda ridiculous, I would suggest you playing 30 games a day for a month first and then see if you are sick of it or not yet...

In terms of talent, yes you are going to need a lot of it. I dont think anyone other than glade is talented enough on SEA to even think about making a living out of sc2. Simply being talented in this isn't enough, you actually have to be like super gifted at this to make a living out of it. A lot of people can place into diamond without any prior RTS experience, so believe me, it really isn't THAT special. Whether you have the talent or not, i don't know and can't say, but i think you really need to make sure you have what it takes in terms of talent and commitment before you even consider it.

[Zanderax]

It is what you make of it. For me, silver was an incredible achievement, I worked on it for months and I got it. Other people put me down for being excited about it but I didn't care because it was something for me. You are in diamond? Great! You wanna go pro? Thats fine, but don't forget to enjoy each new accomplishment. Play to have fun.

[aztecx]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

I tried to go pro in wc3 when I was 16. Failed miserably, since I had school, g/f, fencing and parents. Basically, you have to give up everything in order to perform anywhere remotely close to a low-pro level. Practiced maybe 7 hours a day.

I only managed to beat the ladder up to level 40-ish, biggest tourney for me was wc3l, where i got to round 1/16 and was roflstomped by Crafty (at best 10-th strongest German player at the time). I played Deadman couple times too, but meh, he is superior by a vast margin. No wonder he went to WCG for Russia every time. Guess I have no talent for high-lvl RTS.

So I got a degree in financial analysis and currently working in corporate banking. It actually feels much easier both physically and mentally than beating ladder 7 hours straight

Wow playing deadman (APM70) is impressive. I remember when I played warcraft 3 he was one of my favourite players.

[iSt]

studying is way easier than training sc2... id rather try to get decent grades in school...

but if u still want to go pro then go and see some youtube about korean pros.

[Next_rim]

Wow playing deadman (APM70) is impressive. I remember when I played warcraft 3 he was one of my favourite players.

Yes, amazing experience. He showed up for a lan party, it was 2 hours before start, so he decided to play a game or two. There were three wc players in the room then, and we all got to play one game. Your heart is racing, the only thought you have - I'm about to get crushed. He played 100% standard NE game (shined to perfection, ofcourse), but I was constantly nervous for thunder-out-of-his-ass or something. I would compare this feeling to playing a random, who turns out NE, but due to some glitch has production structures of all races. And damn, his micro was perfect. 0 ghoul-archer hits and 0 wisp kills.

[matthras]

Originally Posted by SONATA

i see...cos my grades r already failing even before i started sc2 . so yea was thinking maybe i would have a chance in sc2. :P

Just bear in mind that school > university/college isn't the 'one and only' way with regards to education. At 18 I'm guessing you're in your final year of high school, and I would advise upon finishing it with appropriate results so that you've at least got some solid ground in the real world.

Much of what I would say would echo Benji's post, so I'm just going to suggest coming back to this thread in a week and asking yourself whether you still feel the same way as you did when you wrote your first post. Certainly, getting into Diamond from your placement matches a day after purchasing the game, and with no RTS experience beforehand, certainly does feel good - but I would suggest spending the next few days laddering so you can actually get a feel for losing.

[Xeen]

Play your 4~ hours a day, and if you can get to 'decent' level (ie: win small tourneys, ranked well in Grandmaster, some international presence), then consider going pro and putting in the time (8-10 per day).

Otherwise, chances are you'll put in 30 ladder games a day and still do nothing but float around GM at best.

[Zeion]

sonata... i dunno where you're from but ask your local top players how are they doing currently? are they juggling studies/work with game? these are things you need to know before making such decision since it does concern your future..

Let's say.. you did become SEA top player.. what are your plans in your late 30s or 40s? still gaming for your life? without some papers what kinda of job are you planning to do? You may say work in the gaming industries but what techical knowlege do you actually hold?

PLEASE dun get me wrong in me trying to be a wet blanket.. having a goal in mind is good but knowing how to archieve and how will it impact your future is another matter.. Either way, I wish you good luck in what ever decision you are heading into.. =)

Cheers!

[Mukade]

My advice to you is that success breeds success. School is one of those nice things that if you work hard at it, you will get good results. So if you are doing pretty badly at school, do you really think you can work hard enough to go pro at sc2? Most professional gamers do very well in other facets of life. I reckon you should get your life organised so you can do very well at the stuff you love, without it costing you everything else.

[crAzerk]

Oh dang, I clicked this thread thinking it was a casual discussion thread and was going to post my own playing hours LOL.

I think everyone has already said what needs to be said, hope the TS/OP (what do u guys call it here I've seen variations. Thread-Starter or Original Poster) gets a good grip of reality and makes a wise decision

And I play 1-2 hours a day now (because of work), when I was having hols I played 4-5 hours a day. Still stuck in diamond! This doesn't even include the time watching videos, talking about strategy, lurking forums, etc, which I'm sure the pros may do too.

Quick Comments

holyforker:

[SONATA]

hmmm i mean tht for now i will complete my sch now while trying to go pro at the same time. so was thinking if this is actually possible. so yea. i heard tht many gamers quit sch. is tht true? and y? isnt a diploma needed at least?

[pXAero]

Haha, ah no. Most pro-gamers do very well at school, and even if they are earning enough to live on then they'd still be completing school. Basically, if you don't have the determination and talent to pass school grade test and do well at them, then that same lack of determination and talent will prevent you from getting anywhere near pro-level in any game.

Basically, put your effort into school. If you're good enough to go pro it'll happen naturally.

Quick Comments

Zeion:

well said! " If you're good enough to go pro it'll happen naturally. "

[Zeion]

Originally Posted by SONATA

hmmm i mean tht for now i will complete my sch now while trying to go pro at the same time. so was thinking if this is actually possible. so yea. i heard tht many gamers quit sch. is tht true? and y? isnt a diploma needed at least?

If you're in Singapore, a dip is NOT enough! unless you're happy with a 1.3-5K pay package... further more if you're a singaporean, dun forget bout National Service.. which saps 2 yrs off you life... after that, what age are you? in NS how much time can afford to you play?

[SONATA]

haha i study in singapore. but i am a foreigner. my frens were talking bout this game and i wasnt sure whether to buy it till yesterday.

[Next_rim]

unless you're happy with a 1.3-5K pay package

Are you speaking US$? If yes, I'm in for this kind of deal right now

*gone packing for Singapore

[Zeion]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

Are you speaking US$? If yes, I'm in for this kind of deal right now

*gone packing for Singapore

it's 900 -1k usd...

[Paroxysm]

As people have said, it is probably more important that you focus on schoolwork and study to at least land a solid foundation on which to live. After that you could probably start to focus more on gaming.

[Satu]

I try to put 2 hours minimum in a day for sc2. If you want to get really good, have consistent practice. But dont sacrifice your future for it.

[Starcraftmazter]

Not nearly as many as I want

[TAminimat]

Sorry bro but you most likely aren't going to make it pro. You bought it yesterday clam down you might not even like it in 2 weeks. Also can you please spell the full ******* word? How hard is it to add ool to sch?

[AlphaWhale]

There's no reason you can't do both to an extent, however to drop everything to go full time professional is a big leap of faith and will require you to work incredibly hard to prove yourself as the high elite in very young and still developing field.

I'd suggest you gauge yourself first, with all the free open online tournaments with prize pools now you can determine for yourself where you stand.

[SONATA]

thanks guys. guess that i will focus on both for the time being. school and starcraft 2 together. after school end then i will choose what to do. sorry bout this. maybe i got a little too hot headed... thanks for the advices guys. i appreciate it. ^.^

[TargA]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

I tried to go pro in wc3 when I was 16. Failed miserably, since I had school, g/f, fencing and parents. Basically, you have to give up everything in order to perform anywhere remotely close to a low-pro level. Practiced maybe 7 hours a day.

I only managed to beat the ladder up to level 40-ish, biggest tourney for me was wc3l, where i got to round 1/16 and was roflstomped by Crafty (at best 10-th strongest German player at the time). I played Deadman couple times too, but meh, he is superior by a vast margin. No wonder he went to WCG for Russia every time. Guess I have no talent for high-lvl RTS.

So I got a degree in financial analysis and currently working in corporate banking. It actually feels much easier both physically and mentally than beating ladder 7 hours straight

ur nick in wc3?

also what team did u play for? ( since u played wc3l qualfier)

I guess I could answer the topic as well. I play everything from 0 to 12 hours a day. Some weeks I don't play and some weeks I play a lot.

[Crankenstein]

I'm training about 4 hours a day at the moment for IntoStarcraft and the UQ vs UNSW competition that The University of Queensland Starcraft Society is thinking of organising for ext semester.

I'm no pro either... these are just the hours I have to put in to compete on an 'amateur/social' level.

Also, it depends what you mean by "training"

There is a difference between playing ladder for 4 hours and (for example) playing 6 minute custom games repeatedly for 4 hours where you bunker rush a zerg and quit as soon as it succeeds/fails on one specific map. Or one rax fast expand against a 4gate and try and work out how to hold it etc.

And It's possible to do both... Spanishiwa is only 17 and still in school and he's fairly successful/famous.

[ETL.Santi]

I think that if you wanna go pro you should get a korean account and see your real skill. Then after training hard for a couple of months you would be able to play random name koreans and prob some day the top 200.

[HDPhoenix]

As I'm the oldie on the site, would just like to give my 2 cents on this.

We are hard-wired to be challenged, to make things difficult. That is why the definition of a game is the voluntary action to overcome UNNECESSARY obstacles. Golf means the ball has to go in the hole? Walk 500m away then hit it with a stick, you CAN'T just drop it in the hole. Basketball means getting the ball in the hoop? Move the hoop 10 feet in the air then. Take any sport, any games and there are set rules, set LIMITATIONS to make the game harder.

Ironically, we wish our lives to be harder, not easier. Imagine if zealots had 20 range and 100dmg and one-shotted everything. That wouldn't be fun. That would be boring, like cheat-coding your way to victory. No, we want our damn zealot to be slower than a worker unit, then be insulted by marauder slow even more. That way, the charge upgrade feels good, even better when my zealots creams your marine/tank line.

In our minds, we want life to be easy. In reality, we want it to be harder, to be challenged.

The problem is, school is too easy, too boring. There is no challenge, just a bunch of memorized bits of information we'll never probably use. That's the main reason why people do badly in school. It isn't fun. It isn't a game

However, you can take what you learnt from gaming and apply it to school. Make school more difficult. 20 dumb facts to remember for History? Make it into a song that MUST rhyme. Math equations too hard? Cover it up, start a timer and answer it in 30secs or LESS. Science experiments too complicated in the lab? Do the pouring while standing on one leg. Anything really that makes your life harder, with rules that limit you

I know its crazy, but challenge yourself with UNNECESSARY obstacles and it'll become a game. Games are hard-wired to be fun. Remember when we were kids and bored at the mall following our parents? Well, we made up a game that you could only step on white squares, not black or you "die". Or like classic hide-n-seek. If you truly wanted to find people, you wouldn't close your eyes but you did, for 30secs, counting out LOUD before you went looking for them.

Give this a try, and see if it works for you. I know it does for me. In my work, I often make mental games for mind-maps and when I do directions, a map style like CounterStrike forms in my brain. When I meet clients and have to remember names, I associated terms with their face that MUST start with the same letter like "Fat-faced Fred" or "LOL Lucy" (yeah, I know, I'm mean to my clients, so sue me =O)

TLR, life is boring. Make it fun and you'll enjoy school/work alot more

p.s. If you devote those 4 extra hours to school, you would be a scholar and get a 6digit job. The problem is school is boring and games are fun. Time to make school fun then, rather than scrap a 4digit job through gaming =X

Quick Comments

Crankenstein:

[Next_rim]

When I meet clients and have to remember names, I associated terms with their face that MUST start with the same letter like "Fat-faced Fred" or "LOL Lucy"

Whoa, excellent tip. I'm soo bad with my clients' names.

also what team did u play for?

Empire. It was wc3l season 5 qualifiers, loser's bracket vs n!faculty. I was a secondary backup UD in division 3. Got lucky to play in the first place

[Benji]

Phoenix, singing songs and turning school into a game since 2011.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	lmao!!!!!
	ke_ivan:	LOL!

[Strafe]

Don't give up anything you are doing. Pour as much time as you find enjoyable into the game and see where it takes you. That makes a lot more sense than speculating about something tough as becoming a 'pro'. Whatever that is anyway.

[staLcHiLd]

Play as much as you like per day, its all up to you, the more you play the better you will be. just stay away from assholes like del and you'll be good

[HDPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Benji

Phoenix, singing songs and turning school into a game since 2011.

QFT, who's up for class?

[duanloves]

5 games on a weekday and 10 games on a weekend.
I usually stop playing when i have losing streak of 3 or more

[Mezza]

p.s. If you devote those 4 extra hours to school, you would be a scholar and get a 6digit job.

I'd like to dispel the notion that being a scholar would get you a 6 digit job, and that by inference that studying hard will make you 'successful' in life.

Firstly, there are very few "scholars" in their 30s-40s who are hauling in 6digit per month paychecks. If you're honestly looking for that kindof pay, you've got better odds NOT being a scholar.

Which brings us back to the previous point phoenix made, studying hard in school. A basal amount of studying is needed for anyone in this modern day and age to be literate and educated enough to at least make a sustainable (or close to) amount of money to feed ourselves. That being said, studying is not the be all and end all of "success" in life.

Most of my friends who are government scholars hardly enjoy the work they do. They hardly do anything directly related to what they've studied in the Uni, which they've picked out of interest/prestige, and these people are literally the cream of the crop, studied their guts out and at the end of the day, only making 4-maybe low 5 digits a month at around ~30 years of age. At the other extreme end of the scale, I've got friends who didn't get straight As, no S papers, or whatever they call it nowadays, living it up in Manhattan. So clearly, a base amount of booksmarts is important, but its not the be all and end all of it.

So what about the rest of the guys who aren't scholars? (Which I'm guessing is majority of the world.) Some lucky few get to enjoy what they do for a living, and this should be a small minority (they're either absofuckinglutely clueless about what life is, or just incredibly ******* lucky), but the rest of the world would trudge along through life working in a shit job which probably makes the real money for someone sitting around on a beach chair somewhere sipping a cocktail with a slice of pineapple and a mini umbrella while getting a massage from some exotically hot babes, apologies, I digress.

But the point is, majority of the world doesn't find much satisfaction in their jobs, so they turn to other endeavours. So enter Starcraft. People play this game for different reasons, but if you've already told yourself that you're never gonna go pro then here's some advice, just play it as a game and enjoy it, let it be your pressure valve, get online, have a couple of games for fun, blow steam off, and head back to your mundane day job. And let it be your distraction till the awesomelyorgasmicmindblowingfulfilling job comes along. And in your context, that probably means sucking it up and just putting in the regular hours everyday to hit your books, not to become a scholar mind you, but more like to prevent you from becoming a useless turd for the rest of your life.

p.s. SONATA, I'm speaking in the context of a Singaporean, not too sure where you're from, but hey, if there's a country which pays scholars (and cabinet ministers) more than ours, please let me know.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Next_rim]

Looks like an unsatisfied average frustrated chut^

People don't play games because they hate their jobs. Or because they come home so angry and frustrated that they have to blow steam off. They play games to differentiate their activities. Doing different contrasting things appears to be the foundation of a happy life.

But hey, if you feel like you need to pwn someone just to feel better, cuz at work you get shit on, it's time to change your employer.

[Mezza]

next, true, I may have worded the part about people hating their jobs abit too harshly, but nevertheless, its generally true that most people don't find their jobs satisfying, because sad fact is that, for the majority of the world, they exist to do a job that will make someone richer than themselves, or they're time is the one being leveraged on.

however, I do agree with you on your point about doing contrasting things.

and as for starcraft, I guess I didn't mean blowing off steam literally, but as a way to unwind and have fun after work, sure, why not.

and as for being an average frustrated chut, maybe you're right but in the small little contruct of my own mind, I love my current job (and I think I'm a lucky as hell to have gotten it), and testament to that fact is the lack of time I'm spending here on the site compared to as before, and my ever growing bonus pool.

the post I made before however was more to dispel the whole notion on how study hard = scholarship = success, because you should always, always walk into everything with your eyes wide open

Quick Comments

SONATA:

[johnnyli]

I'm no pro but i play about 20-30 games a day during tafe breaks. and about 5ish games during tafe days.