[crAzerk]

DISCLAIMER: This is not a serious balance change discussion, just ... a relaxed discussion

Was lurking in the Protoss Strategy channel and there was an interesting discussion there - the topic was originally about how draw games occurred, and naturally the issue about Terran buildings being able to lift off indefinitely came into it.

Then someone suggested - Why not Terran buildings have a limited lift-off time?

Why I thought this was interesting:

1) Would make more logical sense - Well ok fine the concept of buildings lifting-off doesn't quite make sense in the first place.. is it some jet pack they have?
But ok, let's say they have this technology that gets buildings up - over time, the fuel or whatever would deplete, thus they have to land!

2) Won't really affect gameplay much - When Terrans lift off buildings it's just to swap addons, get out of wallins, etc. The lift-off timer can be like.. 60 seconds or something, before they start burning down slowly until landed
(So yes you can still use it for Factory scouting in TvPs)

3) Less BM lameless of floating buildings into the corners of the map!


Timer on lifted buildings Y/N?

[Paroxysm]

This is quite a good proposition really. It would prevent most stalemates between two players and will also prevent terran from lifting off when basetrading with a zerg ground army. Could work nicely, however some problems could probably be faced after making this change.

[Benji]

N

Draw situations are fun and require players to think about the situation and works fine the way it is now.

[ETL.Santi]

No and no. If you dont like it play Terran.

[yongming]

No. Some strategies revolve around lifting buildings for spotting.

[Aean(:]

Im going to have to agree with yongming and Benji. Especially in that MKP vs Nada game in the GSL a while back if anyone remembers. Draw situations require a lot of thought process and is quite fun to spectate/play.

[Dox]

It's not like draw situations occur everyday. And when they do, it's usually very epic for at least one player.

It was fine in SC1, it's fine in SC2!

P.S. Arguing about the concept of buildings lifting off not making sense in a game full of space-fighting aliens is a bit redundant. :P

[crAzerk]

Yea I know the logical point is pointless like how a burrowed ultralisk doesn't really make sense aha. Have you all seen the comic?


Lifting buildings for spotting still works, since the timer buffer is long enough to perform spotting, just denies the fly-to-corner thing.

And it adds a new aspect to the game, or rather one more mechanic for Terran to handle

[cruxis]

Zerg structures die off creep, so It's only fair Terran structures die when in midair, and possibly Protoss structures with no pylon.

[ToRDeathsFang]

If terran buildings could only be in the air for a certain amount of time then what would happen if they happen to fly in the corner off the map? They couldn't just land on nothing. That would be another issue

[crAzerk]

@Deathsfang Didn't you read my full OP? Let me copy and paste:

Originally Posted by crazerk

The lift-off timer can be like.. 60 seconds or something, before they start burning down slowly until landed

So if they just left it there, it would burn up and be destroyed?

Nah Protoss structures being unpowered without pylon already.
And about Zerg, I find it odd that Spines/Spores actually die when burrowed off creep and will not degenerate if they unburrow

[Zanderax]

Interesting prospect. I find that Terran buildings often can mean the difference between game wins and losses. However, this will interrupt some Terran strategies. Instead how about we say a Terran loses if he/she has no buildings on the ground. This will stop the corner wins without the disadvantages of a lift off time out.

[crAzerk]

@zanderax - Na that won't work, may have 'accidental losses' as well like when the opponent kills your last ground structure (depot/refinery) and you're midway through migrating to another expansion.
Having a (long) liftoff timer will still allow this, but just avoid the corner-map draws.

[Zanderax]

@crAzerk
How about we combine the best of both. A countdown on the win timer if the only buildings left are in the air. That would work a way around that problem.

[AlphaWhale]

Sixty seconds maximum seems like it would interfere with expanding considering it's much easier and safer to just build a CC in your base and fly it over. Flying buildings aren't a problem, base trading is generally a scenario to avoid.

That being said I don't know why it's so easy to nearly completely hide a structure (even a CC) in the corner of a map. Happened to me once ages ago on Jungle Basin, not sure if it's possible on any of these new maps

[crAzerk]

Sixty seconds maximum seems like it would interfere with expanding

Uh... no? You don't need even 30 seconds to lift off from your base and land it at the expo. Count it out you'll realize how long that actually is.

And it's not like your buildings blow up after 60 seconds, it just triggers the decay of your buildings!

@zanderax yea that would work but seems a little unnecessary. It's like you have to implement an additional thing(timer) because you're trying to implement an additional thing (trigger lose game)

[fatbuddah]

Zanderax's idea is good. The buildings need to be landed for them to count as structures that that player has remaining.. Therefore if all T's buildings are destroyed except for what is being floated.. they should lose. (bcuz it is lame when ur T opponent floats his buildings to the corner, but I guess.. If they want to play like that who cares.. its up to them, just get air np)

@cruxis, I don't think we should look at the game in terms of: well If zerg structures die off creep.. terran buildings should die in mid-air etc. Its not like terran has to lay down 'tarmac' where he wants to build.. Its just the feature of that race. Zerg are armies are extremely more mobile than Terran's. So I think this is why Terran are allowed to float buildings. For example if a base gets attacked while Terran's army is on the other side of the map. To compensate for Terran taking so long to get back to it, they are able to lift it up, to minamilize damage. I dont believe armies should consist of only ground attacking units in the first place anyway, especially after any 5-6 minute timing attack anyway.. Just my opinion xD

[cruxis]

And Protoss has the slowest moving army, and can't lift their buildings, so that argument is invalid.

[Zanderax]

Yes but the Toss army is very powerful, also warp-in.

[ke_ivan]

I propose that terran command centers can land on burrowed stuff and squash zerglings upon landing! :P

[fatbuddah]

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

I propose that terran command centers can land on burrowed stuff and squash zerglings upon landing! :P

LOL that would be kouta

[Strafe]

I don't even get the problem with flying buildings and in any case it adds an extra dimension to the game, which makes it a ton more fun. The fact that it's gay some people fly into the corner and wait doesn't mean you should cut options of skilled players.

[PraiseB]

But it can be very frustrating in the low leagues rolling someone who's banked a crap load of minerals only to stash command centres left & right.
I've had games go on for 40 minutes longer than they should of because of this.
So as a terran player I'd actually like to see this, but perhaps 10 minutes instead of 60 seconds just so ass hats can't float buildings around indefinably.

[cruxis]

Just build air units.....

[Strafe]

just make vikings they can both land and rape air... there no way anyone can survive for 10 minutes in a corner of a map with just a CC when you make 10 vikings

there are however times when floating buildings will be raped that were in key positions such as hoovering over a 4th expansion or so, so meh bad idea

[luckyshyt]

i think that there should be a mechanic whereby Terran's buildings can start to have that "timer" once all their CCs are gone. i have no issue with flying buildings for scouting/swapping, it's part of terran's mechanics. however, what i do despise is the "unfair" aspect that Terran can lift just 1 building, never land it, n they just leave 1 banshee to kill what ever remains of a non-Terran opponent(especially zerg, since zerg has no air units to hunt down the floating buildings until lair tech).

[FLuX]

[sRDreaM]

Nah doesn't seem like a good idea to me because it's been like this since SC1 Vanilla if they added a timer we wouldn't see really awesome games where players become creative with their buildings like WCS Oceania where Yoon used his buildings against Mafia

Makes me curious why we can't lift Engineer Bay anymore :/

[mGGNemesis]

Sometimes I would get frustrated with terrans being able to hide and float their buildings in the corner and then go afk. Then we would have this exact discussion that terrans should have limited air time. Maybe 5 mins....

[NOM]

Sorry guys but I just had to...

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