[nirvAnA]

I agree TA can be nice people, especially to each other and if you KNOW them, or you and Mafia would never have joined TA in the first place. I've heard this from many sources who stand by them once you get to know them well. This does not necessarily apply to outsiders though, and thats what makes the TA bond and group identity stronger. If you're in their group, you are treated well whereas outsiders are treated differently, theres that exclusivity. I understand there isnt the need to be Mr Nice to everyone but it doesnt hurt to let others know that good side of you as well. Btw i obviously dont speak for ALL of TA, just a few of the members involved in this thread. I personally like EdgE and riichard alot.

However, i disagree anyone offended by them = pussies, especially since these "pussies" rarely get offended by anything else. If i felt i was getting offended too often by everything, I would stop and think and re-evaluate my behaviour, because there would mean theres certainty something wrong with me. However, if it was not just me getting offended, but others as well, and by the same constant people I would be confidant in my belief that it was those few members have crossed the line in that instance and of course, naturally people got offended and not because they are "pussies".

Is KJH a pussy for being offended by zannoku? For those who interacted with Zannoku before can you honestly say you haven't being offended by him? I certainty dont think you are a pussy if you were offended cause the stuff he says is downright vile and hes just very offensive and confrontational whenever he speaks or has a different opinion. So no, I don't think you can ever use "this is the way I talk so deal with it" to justify bad behaviour. As for those 3-4 members i've talked about in this thread being in the same clan as them, you can rationalise and understand that they are actually nice people (to you and their group) and hence its only right to support your friends and let the world know they are nice (to you) but remember, outsiders are treated differently.

Update: For clarification, im not at all comparing Zan to TA i was trying to illustrate the point that offensive behaviour cant be justified by saying others are "pussies who unable to deal with it", as in the case with zan, it doesnt make any of us pussies, it makes zan offensive.

Lastly and ironically, i feel pinder should apply his own advice about "hardening up" to himself instead of rage quitting sc2sea and that parting shot left at baka was unnecessary, baka didn't even ban him out of respect for his past contributions, it was just an infraction. There are times when he has went out of line but he has also made many good contributive posts on this forum in the past and I hope he returns when he thinks about this and cools down.

As for the moral high ground issue, yes I tend to take it whenever i see the forum environment turn into something which isn't my vision of sc2sea and I will do my best to prevent this site from becoming the battle.net forums or cg where these behaviours are tolerated.

Thanks for your comments light and I hope to see you back for SEACL!

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

I like to take the moral high ground myself, appealing to the masses feel's good yo xD

[dippa]

please don't compare zanooku's wanton racism and complete and utter lack of intelligence to TA.

you should already know by now that even the people you dislike in TA are capable of holding a reasonable, level-headed discussion; what you said about JP is proof enough.

not going to go into this any further, just don't want people to mistakenly associate the scum of the earth(tm) with TA.

Quick Comments

	AxSGRiM:
	TAScarecrow:

[aLtShortizz]

I really dont understand why a tournament that has been so anticipating ended in 2 of our best players getting banned from it. I didnt read the whole thing, but AFAIK ppl from both sides really want this CL to work out.

I agree with Light about the drama thread part. it IS very entertaining sometimes. But when the tournament was almost canceled. personal insults are throw and 2 of our best players are banned, its not so funny anymore.

Despite ur reasons, maybe it`ll be good to drop our ego for once and be a little more compromising for something that everyone has been looking forward to for a long time.

[[TA]LoSt]

Lol glad this is going ahead, gives me some motivation to get back into the game and hopefully play for one of the lower tiers.

Nirvana nearly pulled a deL :P

Quick Comments

TADivinity:

lol!!

[Rockstar]

Wow, this really spiralled out of control didn't it.

I've been involved in many highly competitive small communities in my time. Not online communities, RL communities. I have watched this kind of behaviour completely destroy them from the inside. Every time the drama ensued one or 2 more people would drop off the radar never to be seen again, until there was almost noone left.

The only way small communities like these keep their shit together is by cooperation and mutual respect. If you don't have mutual respect or the ability to cooperate then just **** off now, because you are far more trouble than you are worth to anything and everything that is trying to be achieved here.

There are a lot of people who read this forum and don't participate directly in discussion. Every time they read a 9 page bitchfest the community becomes less and less appealing to these borderline players. This is not the responsibility of admins, mods or anyone else, it's the responsibility of every single person who expresses their opinion in one of these threads.

If you want to be a jerk take it to PM's. If you disagree with an argument, constructively explain why and offer an alternative, or shut ur mouth.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	Well said
	Nemo:	+1. Silent majority expressing.
	Maynarde:
	nirvAnA:

[Spud]

I re-created an account to say that arguing over the internet is for retards.

But also a few thoughts:

SC2SEA Team: Every1 is truly appreciative of this site as a platform to connect with others, nerds can be mean, but we never overlook the effort and great work that is done.

On the other hand, talking about viewers and sponsorship is bordering on laughable. "Sponsorship" is a filthy dirty word if you are talking about money making. Sponsorship is nothing more than a donation, its like sponsoring a starving child, it doesn't generate any revenue, but its a great thing to do. Honestly the coin that companies' sponsor/donate or whatever is such a piss in the ocean compared to their overall operations. If you actually believe that the sponsorship of our teams and events are an important aspect of their marketing strategy or have significant impact on their sales you are on crack, seriously you are deluding yourself into thinking your part of something big.

If having the best SEA players gets say an extra 400 viewers, you could roughly estimate it that 200 of these viewers are unlikely to be a target audience for a company, whether they are too young, don't have any money, don't wear Ultra thin tampons or whatever the bullshit adds are pitching. So u r left with 200 possible viewers, who 100 probably have add-blockers. The numbers left over are probably spending the adds beating off to a well endowed midget feeding a length to a double D German porn goddess called Elke. None of this is measurable and with such small numbers, it doesn't mean shit in terms of marketing.

I never saw any of these problems happen in BW, it was about the game and how it would be the most fun. Streams, sponsors, pro teams and all this other shit barely existed, and it was way better imo. Just because a few people worldwide r making a living off SC2 doesn't mean that potentially great tourneys and comps have to cause so much controversy over the sake over a few viewers who in the end are completely in-*******-significant.

Merry Christmas.

Quick Comments

	ToR.Arnor:	A little crude but you're on the money RE:sponsorship = burning money
	TAEdgE:
	TADivinity:	I love Elke
	Champi:

[inFeZa]

Sponsorship is advertisement, not a donation.

How about we just play some ******* starcraft games coz as a sponsor myself thats all i really care about seeing, my team - doing what they're do best

Quick Comments

TADivinity:

Drama and Ari die :)

[Bloodmyst]

Holy guacamole!

What an entertaining thread!

After reading through a lot of this, all I can say is....

You really all sound like a bunch of kids really..... "tgun and moonglade are just too good!".....

Really guys? You can't really complain if tgun and moonglade decided to join a team for a league because "they wanted to."

Anyways, good luck hf and may everyone prosper!

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:	work on your comprehension
	JoFritzMD:	I don't think you actually read through the thread...
	NvRossi:	good head

[nirvAnA]

This thread has run its course and will now be closed. Thank you everyone for your comments.

We somehow at the end still managed to sift through all the hate and bitching and come out with an improved format that the majority of the people will enjoy. Coming up with a good format is very important as we were setting the precedent for the future SEACL's as well, not just this season. As to the silent majority - thank you to some of you for stepping out and making your voice heard.

In the future I hope other discussion can be done without participation of the few that made this such an unpleasant experience, or if they are do are able to just voice their concerns in a civil manner. After all it was all about making a better format, and thats what we achieved with this thread, despite all the negativity and name calling and it would just been so much better without it.

Moral highground ftw!