[Volition]

Originally Posted by dippa

I understand SC2SEA can't prevent people from playing the game, but they can make a stance and set the standards for being a member of the community.

Just because he will come under scrutiny in the future is not in any way recompense for wasting people's time and enjoyment with hacks. If I offered you the opportunity to play a game against someone who was hacking or someone who wasn't, what would you choose? The game ceases to be enjoyable when your opponents are tracking your every move.

Also, just because punishment has been doled out and an apology has been provided - which was not in any way, shape or form forthcoming until his lies were well and truly exposed - doesn't mean further discussion on the topic is unwarranted.

Having a strong community is part of the wonderful things SC2SEA can offer, and it's everyone's job to safeguard that. This is the perfect opportunity for the community to lay down a precedent for the future; if you consider that a "complaint", then I can do nothing more but disagree with your sentiments in the strongest possible terms.

wasting people's time and enjoyment? If that is literally all that is wasted, then i fail to see how we can disagree in the strongest possible terms.

At the end of the day, this is a game and we play it for enjoyment, as an enjoyable way of spending our time. To waste that is to waste our enjoyment and time - really not that precious commodities in the grand scheme of things.

it truly feels like a storm in a teacup - if someone was hacking and beat me, well good for them i suppose. What further harm has it REALLY caused you?

I am not defending hacking, or evets, but i feel that the "wrecking the game 6-12 month ban" and "should go to hell" moniker has been thrown out too much in this thread. It is time we all got back to doing something beneficial for the the community and focusing on the good stuff. Nirvana has handed out the punishment, to continue to complain is to be opposed to the decision - and at the end of the day if you dont like it you do not need to be a part of the community if you find this decision does not "safeguard" the commuinity in the appropriate manner.

volition

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:	we know it's you, stop signing
	Brultze:
	nirvAnA:	I think he does that cause he used to it being a lawyer and all haha
	simon:	you are far to starry eyed sir
	Welshy:	Destroying people 1 post at a time

[ROOT`iaguz]

If you're going to get this worked up over hackers then why is SenSei still in TA?

Evets feels really shitty over this. The punishment has worked, to an extent, and if anyone else gets caught out with this shit we can easily be nastier to them.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	balls of steel
	inFeZa:	im pretty sure you hide your hacks in your beard....
	Nemo:	Exactly !
	cRSenSei:	Seriously?
	ToRSpartaz:	Russian balls xD
	stalking you:	Lol @ SenSai's Rep Comment :P good post

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by dippa

That doesn't work. He can't be a well respected person IF HE DECIDED TO CHEAT.

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

His actions shows that he's obviously lacking in principle; I can't imagine how anyone could still hold him in high regard (beyond close friends) after all of that.

keep in mind the ban for events applies only for SC2SEA, people who run their own events e.g. Dox, deL, Eddie, frequency and myself may have their own views towards hackers and given the recent emergence of hacking, event admins will need to review their policies on the matter

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

Basically it happened on our SC2SEA skype group like this - Eddie suggested the 3 month ban. All the mods agreed.

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by Sanctify

Accused of hacking, denying it, fade defends him, admits it, lies, fade still defending him and trying to bullshit, all being retards and unwilling to openly accept the facts and be honest.

Face it its known by everyone beyond reasonable doubt, even if not proven straight out, that he's a hacker, and not just for 'one game.'

But hey why does it matter? He's friends with some top players and has a FaDe to pretend to have authority in the community and defend/comtinue bullshitting. How noble and honest of him to admit to using hacks once.

Pathetic community.

Originally Posted by dippa

That doesn't work. He can't be a well respected person IF HE DECIDED TO CHEAT.

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

His actions shows that he's obviously lacking in principle; I can't imagine how anyone could still hold him in high regard (beyond close friends) after all of that.

And why do you think he might be hesitant to admit it at first when there's people like you with nothing better to do than jump on the latest hate bandwagon there is and flame him to death. At least he did in fact admit to his crime, and punishments have been handed down. How many times have you done something dishonest that you've regretted in your life and not fessed up immediately? Let alone when you've got a whole community of internet tough guys just begging for the latest TMZ gossip to come out of their scene and hate you for it.

What point would a 12+mth ban really achieve anyway -- people will just get a new game / account and start over fresh if you force them into hiding like that, whereas a 2/3mth ban, he's gonna have to wear it and put up with crap from people like you forever. He's admitted to hacking once, and the facts you suggest as facts are not indeed facts, so you're not helping the argument here. You're also loading the facts when you say he "decided to cheat" -- no, he decided to screw around with hacks to see what they're about. Cheating suggests he acted dishonestly to personally achieve more, whereas what he has stated, suggests to me the motive is based off curiosity/boredom and a lack of generally giving a rats' with IRL issues, more than anything else. His word is what you take it to be, but for those who carry weight and make the decisions, it's enough for them to distinguish him on a separate punishment tier from others -- and you should respect their decision.

Just chill. Learn to forgive some nerds once in awhile and you'll be a much happier person. Otherwise, if you consider the community to be that "pathetic" - why don't you consider leaving?

EDIT: Removed profanity :P Sorry

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	...
	nirvAnA:	good first post, abit harsh at the end tho
	PiG:	good post. A bit opinionated for a first post though...
	EveMassacrisM:	Nope.
	Sanctify:	well no, clearly the 'bandwagon' is biased support because he's friends with many key community members...
	EXCL:
	nGenLight:	If this is the attitude we gonna adopt, then maybe we can all hack just for once and get a 2/3 month ban IF we got caught.

[TAScarecrow]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

If you're going to get this worked up over hackers then why is SenSei still in TA?

Sensei got caught almost 4 years ago and it was still discussed heavily before we gave him a long-ass trial period.
He more than did his time.

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by dippa

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

This is actually quite incorrect. If you look back through the thread you will see several posts, most notably from PiG outlining exactly how he thought the replay was inconclusive at least. If anything, he was on the way to being cleared as "that game was a little suss but nothing we can prove".

He's got balls to admit it after it looked like, for the most part he would, "get away with it".

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:	stop being so biased
	simon:	i grow even more frustrated after each post of yours i read -_-;;

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Volition

once again, why.

(Read Volition's whole post to understand the context)

I've asked this question since page 2. Everyone ignores it so ... this is never going to end.

[Rockstar]

First of all I'd like to say that I feel the matter has been handled reasonably well by all involved. Evets has been punished. However, some of the things being said here kind of grind my gears a little... So in response...

Originally Posted by Volition

What further harm has it REALLY caused you?

Well this entire community is based around the competitive world of Starcraft 2 Gaming... E-sports as people call it. There are a LOT of people in this community alone that have very high hopes for the future of e-sports. Evets actions brought that world into disrepute. Evets competes in the highest tier of this community. So yes, a lot of people do find this to be very very harmful to what they believe in. Whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

if anyone else gets caught out with this shit we can easily be nastier to them.

I would like you to explain to me why anyone else caught should be treated any differently to Evets. Thats kind of the entire problem with this thread. This is creating a precedence for all future instances of hacking.

Originally Posted by chaynesore

Cheating suggests he acted dishonestly to personally achieve more,

He did.

Originally Posted by chaynesore

it's enough for them to distinguish him on a separate punishment tier from others -- and you should respect their decision.

Having different rules for different people is unjustifiable.

Quick Comments

wolf:

[dippa]

Originally Posted by chaynesore

And why do you think he might be hesitant to admit it at first when there's people like you with nothing better to do than jump on the latest hate bandwagon there is and flame him to death. At least he did in fact admit to his crime, and punishments have been handed down. How many times have you done something dishonest that you've regretted in your life and not fessed up immediately? Let alone when you've got a whole community of internet tough guys just begging for the latest ******* TMZ gossip to come out of their scene and hate you for it.

What point would a 12+mth ban really achieve anyway -- people will just get a new game / account and start over fresh if you force them into hiding like that, whereas a 2/3mth ban, he's gonna have to wear it and put up with shit from people like you forever. He's admitted to hacking once, and the facts you suggest as facts are not indeed facts, therefore, just shut up. You're also loading the facts when you say he "decided to cheat" -- no, he decided to **** around with hacks to see what they're about. Cheating suggests he acted dishonestly to personally achieve more, whereas what he has stated, suggests to me the motive is based off curiosity/boredom and a lack of generally giving a **** with IRL issues, more than anything else. His word is what you take it to be, but for those who carry weight and make the decisions, it's enough for them to distinguish him on a separate punishment tier from others -- and you should respect their decision.

Just chill. Learn to forgive some nerds once in awhile and you'll be a much happier person. Otherwise, if you consider the community to be that "pathetic" - why don't you consider leaving?

I'm plenty happy thanks; there's no need to suddenly attach personality traits and emotions from an argument in which I've tried to reason things out as best as I possibly can.

You're almost portraying hackers here as people who have some kind of socially awkward disability, who need therapy rather than a good kick up the arse.

What's even funnier is that you ostracise me for allegedly relying on "facts" that are somehow untrue. I presume you're referring to the manner in which he admitted hacking here, since that's what you quoted and you didn't refer to anything else.

Evets tried to defend himself on page 2. Hell, he even tried to stream, as if to say, "Look guys! I'm really this good without hacks!"

What do you think the point of him offering up excuses was? It was a deliberate attempt to hide the fact that he cheated, and he only admitted to doing so after analysis effectively removed any other reasonable alternative.

But the real irony here is that while pillaging me for going off what happened in this thread, you then cite factors that you have absolutely no way of confirming exist in the first place.

Your definition is wrong as well. Cheaters might have different motives, but anyone that decides to use third-party assistance in a game to gain an advantage is cheating, regardless of why they decided to do it. The only supporting evidence you have to your claim that he was "******* around with hacks" is basically Evets' word for it: but on the basis of his posts in this thread alone, how can you possibly trust him?

Furthermore, forgive me if I ignore your suggestion regarding respect. I'll make my own decisions on who to respect, thank you very much, and it won't be based on whether people have clout or the authority to make decisions but whether they deserve my respect in the first place.

Just because people can passionately criticise a community doesn't mean they don't care about what's going on, and it doesn't mean they don't want to improve it. I can't speak for Santi here, but hopefully everyone knows I mean well.

This is actually quite incorrect. If you look back through the thread you will see several posts, most notably from PiG outlining exactly how he thought the replay was inconclusive at least. If anything, he was on the way to being cleared as "that game was a little suss but nothing we can prove".

There wasn't several posts, just PiG supporting one of his students, which is admirable of him. My remark that Evets was "exposed" is perfectly accurate, since the replay was evidently enough for him to feel like he had to defend himself. He tried to then hide the truth; in my book, that's as good as a lie, even if it doesn't fit some people's traditional meaning of the word.

PiG's defence was in no way close to getting Evets off the hook; but I'll accept that Timber's accusations weren't 100% concrete, either. I'll take the blame for that one.

Scarecrow's still right though; hacking is the absolute worst thing you can do in online gaming, next to scamming. How that's dealt with though; each to their own I suppose. I don't get to make the decisions, after all.

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by Sanctify

Accused of hacking, denying it, fade defends him, admits it, lies, fade still defending him and trying to bullshit, all being retards and unwilling to openly accept the facts and be honest.

Face it its known by everyone beyond reasonable doubt, even if not proven straight out, that he's a hacker, and not just for 'one game.'

But hey why does it matter? He's friends with some top players and has a FaDe to pretend to have authority in the community and defend/comtinue bullshitting. How noble and honest of him to admit to using hacks once.

Pathetic community.

What you're saying is out of anger and not making much sense. Fade is not denying he was in the wrong here, everyone is past that. What's happening is working out a punishment suitable to the severity of his crime, and I feel like a lot of people are taking this a little bit too far considering the circumstances.

edit: And I should clarify, people saying his crime is worse than what he admitted to, should bring evidence to the table if they plan on treating their opinions as fact. Until then we should go off the information we already have.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by Sanctify

Accused of hacking, denying it, fade defends him, admits it, lies, fade still defending him and trying to bullcrap, all being retards and unwilling to openly accept the facts and be honest.
.

Firstly edited the swearing, not a fan of it.
If you were in our shoes and your clan member was the one accused hacking, wouldn't you also give him the benefit of the doubt? I may be new to Clan FaDe, but I understand what being in a Clan means. Hypothetically speaking, if someone accused someone from aLt or TA (not calling anyone out at all, just using 2 extremely well known clans in this case) maphacking, I'm sure their members would hit the forums and also give their members the benefit of the doubt, just like we did.

What are you talking about, unwilling to openly accept the facts. We defended him due to giving him the benefit of the doubt. He admitted to hacking. Okay, so be it. Punishment has been handed down, FaDe leadership will handle his case within Clan FaDe and will issue a statement. No one here from FaDe is denying that he hacked, we brought our concerns and opinions forward because he's a member of our Clan. It's unfortunate yes, but he did hack and has admitted to it. We're not trying to deny that he hacked, that would just be completely illogical and stupid. It's like trying to milk a dead cow, or saying you're shaving your beard when you don't even have a beard. And what facts are you talking about in the first place? That he's hacked more than 1 game? You need to show that he's hacked, otherwise you're not spouting facts, you're spouting opinion. Difference? One is common frickin knowledge. The other, no matter how hard you try will be biased in some way or form.

Until you PROVE without a doubt that EvetS hacked more than 1 game, it's still opinion at this point.

[NvJazBas]

I've accused evets for map hacking like 2 seasons ago and he said he wasn't but he "used to" and the next game I got from ladder was a guy who played evets and I asked him for replay and evets goes 13pool vs 10 pool (14th drone from egg cancled) and many suspicious counter moves.

I don't know if he saying he wasn't hacking back in the days were true (I personally think its a lie), but admitting his own crime and getting the punishment still don't give you the right to put yourself higher than any of the accus"er"s here. I disagree with people saying "At least he admitted it". Yeah after a long time of false statements.

"Taking this a bit too far" would be banning him from sc2sea for life. I personally take cheating very seriously (maybe cause I'm Korean and I know how much work it was taken to make e-sports what it is now) and just imagine how many people on ladder he would've made rage (My opinion is he map hacked alot of games. My OPINION). I'm very sleepy right now so I'll do this tomorrow but tomorrow, I'll look through my computer so if I can find the replay of me vs evets back in the days and the one I received from the guy who vsed him after me.

But really, I don't see how anyone can defend him. He maphacked on ladder. One game or 100 games, he maphacked.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	NvRossi:	i loled
	Shieldz:
	EveMassacrisM:	The man has spoken.
	Fadey:
	stalking you:	I remember you talking to EvetS about him potentially hacking back in Season 2 when i used to hang out around FaDe chat channel.

[TAEdgE]

Ok guys I want to get this out in the open before more harm is done.

It was 3 and a half years ago now and while all the cool kids had a Bot doing runs in Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction, I resorted to map hacking. I used it for 2 months, and it helped rush my friends. It did nothing but benefit, but if you guys are angry at me I understand.

I also used cheats in the Brood War campaign when I was 12. Sorry.

Quick Comments

nard:

lol

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

But really, I don't see how anyone can defend him.

Bring us proof and we may change our mind. Until then there is only one, possibly two instances of him hacking.

[pRoTimber]

who knows maybe he had shared the hack with his friends? maybe badger who keeps coming in defence? or who he got the hack from? why even bother about the meaningless punishment? i'd say send the hack to blizzard to fix it the next patch.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	i liked you in diddy kong racing
	nirvAnA:	thanks for uncovering it all timber but this post is wrong wrong wrong lol.
	VB_Rhuubarb:	no need to infer others in this
	Shieldz:

[Maynarde]

JazBaz I was one of the people that defended EvetS (in the Community Open I hosted) when you messaged about his suspicious behaviour on ladder. Makes you wonder now Interested in seeing the replays but I don't know why we're arguing over the EvetS thing still.

Myself, iaguz and a few others have RE-stated that EvetS has already been punished. The horse is already dead, stop hitting it. He admitted to hacking = consequences = done.

Now go, to the ladder! Find more hackers and shine glorious retribution among them.

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

Beating a dead horse is much safer than beating a live one

[TAEdgE]

He was being exaggeratingly rhetorical Bryan, the part about meaningless punishment and sending to Blizzard was the serious part. (Correct me if i'm wrong Timby)

[nirvAnA]

no he wasnt, thats what he msged me on msn too a few hours ago lol

[TAEdgE]

Oh you guys share MSN drama

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Oh you guys share MSN drama

I'm jelly.