[WahliaozSPR]

Hi guys,

Just to share my 2cents worth to the situation and i am NOT posting on behalf of SPR.

If you were to touch your heart and ask yourselves this question:

1) Would the above shitstorm have occured if SPR brought in korean no name BRONZE leaguers into the SEACL who have been played the same amount of games as yCh and TiGer has? Would it have caused any big commotion from you guys?

Just another pointer:

I guess the rules are really abit blurry. What one person's perspective of 'active' in SEA might be different from anothers. And giving the admin to decide who is 'active' or not is really not a good judgement as the admin might not be familiar with the player who has been hanging out in a particular SEA channel which the admin might not be aware of. Besides, language also plays a very big factor here in this forum, as you all can see, most of the things posted here are in English, thus i dont think the koreans really understand what is posted here and i dont think you would want to google translate everything which is here. Thus, please spare a thought for them as well. And lastly, I am apologizing on behalf of what master has said, as he is weak in English. Please forgive him as he does not really mean what he says.

Just wanna hear your views.

Thank you =)

Quick Comments

Peleus:

Well said for your point of view

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by WahliaozSPR

Hi guys,

Just to share my 2cents worth to the situation and i am NOT posting on behalf of SPR.

If you were to touch your heart and ask yourselves this question:

1) Would the above shitstorm have occured if SPR brought in korean no name BRONZE leaguers into the SEACL who have been played the same amount of games as yCh and TiGer has? Would it have caused any big commotion from you guys?

Just wanna hear your views.

Thank you =)

errrr.. No - because there isn't as much at stake in the tier 4 division.. and that division is less about competition but playing and improving in a fun semi competitive environment.. by not having a legitimate SEA team your taking potential prize away from legitimate teams (in tier 1).

The concern here is not about "SPR will win if we let them have the koreans, lets make sure that happens cause we wanna win..." but, there are non SEA players trying to dominate SEA events, this is an event designed to promote and develop the SEA scene, thats why it is hosted on SC2SEA.com and is run and 99% competed in, by SEA residents...

imo, there should just be a flat ban on non-SEA residents or a limit of 1-2 per team. The SEACL is aimed to find the best SEA Clan or team.. Or perhaps the eligibility test can be, play on SEA server more than any other?.. :P

[aLtShortizz]

Im interested to know what the sponsor of the SEACL thinks about this.

IIRC, according to his TL post, he was looking for some ways to inject money into Australian/SEA Esports community. Thus, the idea of a SEACL was introduced. Since this is an event meant to boost Esports in AusNz/SEA, i see no reason why Koreans shld be allowed to participate in it.

While i agree that the rules are very vague, its pretty obvious who are the (Overseas Players) whose active on SEA. Ppl like soulman, jerry, alwaysdry are definitely one that we can call our own and therefore allowed to participate in this. These are ppl we play with everyday and talk inside and outside of SC2, its always funny to hold a conversation with them and i really appreciate it when they try. On the other hand, ppl who doesnst even OWN an account or who plans to buy a new account and smurf 100 games, dont exactly fit in here. Their intentions are questionable and i doubt they wanna have anything to do with this community outside of tournaments.

Just a few weeks back, TASensei was beaten by a KR player whom me and him has never heard of in the CO. I felt appalled that someone like Sensei who deserved a win after trying for some time is denied by a KR smurf who probably log in just for this and den logs out after. Hell, i dont even know if this is his account or just a borrowed one.

Aus/SEA esports will never grow if all our tournament winnings are won by ppl who dont contribute at all to the community IMO. Ppl who dont talk to us, dont share their knowledge or even interract shldnt play in our tournaments, period. While i agree that KR Bteamers kinda raises the level, think about our very own peeps like Iaguz and Pig. They are trying to play Sc2 full time and it doesnt make sense if someone can just borrow an account and just win the little amount of money we have on offer.

TL;DR

No i dont like the idea of these random Korean players like Bomba playing in the SEACL. But other foreigners like soulman and jerry whom i consider a part of this community are welcome. Although u cant judge a Non-Sea player's eligibilty by the amount of ladder games he played, im sure we can all agree that some of has done more than the others to be considered part of us and fully justified their participation.

[nirvAnA]

sensei lost to Rapz, hes quite active (350 ladder games total)

yea as of now "foreigners" who are part of our community are welcome to play. aka targa salvation nemo frogmite etc

the next tournament will have two qualifiers, one open to the whole world and one just to SEA

Quick Comments

	AxS.Sorathez:
	wolf:	nice idea

[AxS.Sorathez]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

sensei lost to Rapz, hes quite active (350 ladder games total)

yea as of now "foreigners" who are part of our community are welcome to play. aka targa salvation nemo frogmite etc

the next tournament will have two qualifiers, one open to the whole world and one just to SEA

I think this is probably the best option. Residents of SEA participate in one qualifier, others play in the other. But then of course there is the question of how many qualification slots to give to each qualifier. Being a SEA tournament it seems logical that the SEA qualifier would have more slots, but of course this is up to the admins.

[Unstable]

Rules are there for a reason. Once you bend them once everyone will push you to bend them again. In that light for the current scenario it is very clear that certain SPR players should not be allowed to play.

However, Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a very unique situation with SPR. You will not find any other "clan/team" trying to compete in SEA events like this with the gray area for some of their players.

But I would encourage people to think of the positives that would come from them playing. On the fact that it pushes the boundaries of what SEA players can do? Similar to the scenario of MLG/IPL recently with foreigners vs Koreans. Koreans are considered the better players by many and when a foreigner takes a game off them there is NO better feeling in the world.(unless that player is on your team RE: IPL3 )

When having multiple "SEA only" tournaments the attitude for players has the chance to change to"I don't need to outrun the Croc chasing us I just need to outrun you "But imagine the possibilities if that changed to outrunning the Croc too? While I understand there are timezone issues with regular cups etc for the majority of players why not let tournaments like this give you that kind of excitement and thrill of competition?

I am completely aware of the sentiment "want to grow the SEA community" and saying that it should go to SEA residence etc. But its not like you would be letting people from slayers/im/fxo/mvp play.

There are plenty of SEA players who are improving to the point of where they can take games off these players consistently, glade/tgun/iaguz/pig etc etc. This will give them the ability to show that they aren't just token "good SEA players but shit compared to other servers" which is the unfortunate view on the SEA server at the moment by many people.

I always go by "set the bar high" so why not set it high so we can give the great SEA players a way to shine.

EDIT: when I say allowed to play in future I mean only tournaments similar to this one, and only SPR since it is a team of mixed SEA/not SEA. From what i see the odds aren't stacked too heavily against the SEA players in that regard.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	agreed with most
	Peleus:

[RyooMakSPR]

hello~ im RyooMakSPR

i just wanted to clarify who i am since not many people seem to know me.
not even everyone in SPR seems to know me even tho i've been there 7months haha
i bought and made me SEA acc, as an addition to my personal and same account as for my KR acc june of last year.
i started playing SEA as PowerHouse. i joined this website (been a ghost member) and figured i would ask nirvana to refer a clan or team for me. he recommended SPR as they have a lot of koreans. since then i joined SPR and changed my ID to RyooMakSPR.

I'm actually an australian and new zealand citizen. i speak fluent english, and even went to the same high school as iaguz(personal friend). since high school our family moved to korea and i have been living here ever since then.
I am currently playing as lOvRyooMak on the korean server as part of the korean clan lOv.
what's funny is that i joined SPR first before joining lOv. Since joining lOv i have been practicing and playing more on KR.. reason why i havent been playing actively on SEA ladder(never finished a season in GM cause of demotion ). Since then I have had friends and korean clan members play on my SEA account occasionally, just for fun. I am probably responsible for SPR's first connections with korean clans like lOv of which many SPR clan members and lOv members have made friends with eachother. Some korean friends and clan members have expressed their willingness to play on the SEA server as well, mostly playing by exchanging accounts with SPR members to play on SEA. Some of whom e.g. balloon(who is a clan member of lOv), have even bought their own SEA account recently and desire to play in SEA tournaments to come. Some people point out that SPR have korean random smurfs to play in friendly CW's.. but they're actually always the same friedns that play....

I just wanted to point out some facts, and have a say for Balloon who i think should be eligible to play. Its not like we play professionally or anything close to it, for my case and balloon's we are just ordinary clan members and play for fun.. It is hard for korean players to play actively and participate in SEA as it is for you guys to play and make friends on KR due to their short english.

edit: I do believe other players should be carefully considered by the sea community tho. im not too close with everyone else to know how much they would actively play on SEA.

anyway that was my first official introduction on this site..
feel free to make friends or ask questions to me on RyooMakSPR.519 channel team spr on SEA, lOvRyooMak.517 on KR channel clan lov

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	I'd like to vouch for Tae Hyung Ryoo here. He's alright.
	Peleus:	Thanks for coming and posting here mate
	SungInSPR:	>_<
	nirvAnA:
	ROOTPetraeus:	:D
	Eddie:
	TAEdgE:

[AxSGRiM]

I'd just like to add that a lot of the accounts that the Koreans are using are just spare accounts from SPR members.... So counting ladder games doesn't really make sense.

[Peleus]

Well SPR are asking the admins and community for approval for 3 players.

yChSPR
TiGerSPR
BalloonSPR

yCh & TiGer have been active in our community with long histories in the masters cup and ladder. They are even specifically mentioned here (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2730) as being active in the SEA community. Players such as yCh we also active in the latest masters cup they were eligible for.

Balloon is a newer member who has begun being very active in this community, recently playing about 40 games / week. He is not a professional player or member of any gaming team. Instead of just smurfing on other accounts he has specifically went and purchased one with the aim of integrating further into our community. He is often playing custom games on top of his ladder play with guys such as JazBaz, so he has definitely been active with us.

I truly believe it offers benefits to the SEA community to let these guys play, including showing our ability to draw great players and even more highlights the ability for our best to mix it with all comers. We've seen this lately with examples such as the IGN pro league qualifiers, and I think this can also highlight our communities skill.

So opening it up to the community, what do you all believe?

[TargA]

let them live

[nirvAnA]

Yoyo like I've mentioned to you and posted 4-5 times already.

Take a screenshot of their profiles with their games played and put them in your post. Its not such hard work, and if you are serious about them playing you should do it. The deadline is tomorrow btw as thats when the teams finalise. The admins will decide from there and we will also consider what you have said above but only if we see the screenshots of their profiles.

[WahliaozSPR]

Hi

I attached yCh and TiGers pics of their number of games played

[Peleus]

and that's Balloon

http://imgur.com/NiOSt

[AxSGRiM]

I think yCh and TiGers deserve to play and perhaps Balloon next season...

[TAEdgE]

May as well forfeit now

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by EdgE

May as well forfeit now

With that attitude, yes.

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Petraeus

With that attitude, yes.

Don't talk to me about attitude

edit: don't get me wrong, all the players (ych, balloon) are really nice (tiger had such bad english that i think he hates me now LOL) and actually put in time for a server like this, allowing me to actually get a game without waiting 5+ minute . I just don't think this season is good for a pure Korean a-team SPR lineup. After losing so many players on the team i play with, and with other teams using purely SEA players, it seems like the competitive aspect dissapears for me since SPR is by far the strongest, probably slightly more than xGKing with those players. I can play all of their players on SEA ladder, hell i've played half of those guys I listed earlier on KOREAN ladder haha, but I guess other people getting the chance to play them is great!

I just think future competitions/next SEACL would be better for Balloon/TiGer.. yCh i'm not sure, he's been around for ages but his activity has diminished since his activity for Startale has increased.. but I just want SPR to field at least half SEA players each week is all, if that happens i'm happy .

Example if SPR get those players:

Week 1:

SoongheeSPR
GGist
RyoomakSPR
yChSPR
SooieSPR

Week 2:

SoulmanSPR
RapzSPR
SunginSPR
RsSPR
BalloonSPR

instead of

SoulmanSPR
RapzSPR
BalloonSPR
yChSPR
TiGerSPR

I just wish Sungin added 1 or 2 more players such as tbk (really good, deserves a-team) and like Kang (if hes active).

[Peleus]

I can assure you it definately wouldn't be the 'strongest' players every week. All of the players wish to play, SPR is no different to any other team in that regards. Just as TA who I'm sure have some team members stronger than others, I'm sure you won't be playing the same guys every week.

From SPRs perspective though it has advantages of scheduling if some players are not avaliable certain weeks, and honestly it would feel a lot better for our clan if all members could actually compete so we can have a real clan league.

My 2c

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

yes TA will not use same lineup each week :)

[Frogmite]

We've spoken with the admins concerning those three players,

We'll accept players IF they don't belong to a korean pro team and IF their activity on the SEA ladder is high enough (at least 100 games).

So to resume:

yCHSPR: NO (reason: part of a korean pro team http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/KingKong)
TigerSPR: NO (reason: part of a korean pro team http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-k...ers/2842_Tiger )
BalloonSPR: OK BUT must play a minimum of 100 ladder games before playing in SEACL. He's not active enough on SEA at the moment.

[Peleus]

Thanks for your response, but more importantly thanks for having detailed reasons why, and clarifying it for future events.