[BAD.BiGbiRd]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

Not sure how many people saw the CatZ/TT1/Illusion thing on Spades but this post relates to it hugely. As a player you develop habits and little mannerism's if you will that are literally impossible to change at will/game by game. I'm staying objective to this because i don't feel like getting abused by people from either side but i want to talk about the viking pathing. Ohana is a very narrow map and you will notice that the paths are almost identical in each game and low and behold there are overlords there. Not so easy to drop when an overlord see's you every time huh?? There are spots on maps where overlords will be, to scout for third timings, gas timings, good positions to sac and scout main for tech etc etc etc. 'ALL' good players know where the overlords will be and will kill them off. Whenever i go voidrays in PvZ and anyone else that goes voidrays tell me you dont get at least 3-4 overlord kills in the exact same spots on whatever the map every time??? Because if you say you don't you're full of shit or terrible. I haven't had a complete chance to go everything else and like i said i'm not saying he is hacking or not yet but as everyone seems to be up in arms about the vikings thought i would go over that first.

[Nadir]

Curiously, what is on offer in the way of reparations if Chobo is proven innocent? It hardly seems fair to be able to just accuse someone of hacking and shit all over their reputation without putting something of your own on the line.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Most likely an apology - but read nirvAnA's warning

[Maynarde]

If you're not adding replays or analysis DON'T POST.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	awww i wanted to post a condescending gif. T_T
	Pandan:	You can always PM the gif virally. I'd appreciate it!
	EveSigns:	post adds no replays or analysis
	mGGAequitas:	hypocrisy is awesome :)

[mGGDaedalus]

At this point the replays provided have been carefully analysed with viewpoints from both sides of the argument. It seems there are moments that seem suspicious, but nothing that couldn't be explained away. While I'm sure most people have made their minds up one way or the other, I really don't think it's possible to say chobo is without a doubt a maphacker and I wouldn't feel right condemning him purely on circumstancial evidence.

Surely all the gm players in here have bumped into chobo on ladder from time to time, are there more recent replays that can be brought forward to be analysed? Otherwise I don't see how this thread can really move forward.

[deL]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

I just don't know how on shakuras vs mafia at 5:30 chobo randomly looks at the main and natural for no reason, how this is not evidence.

If he is hacking wouldn't it stop him doing this by locking the screen when he tries to look in to the FoW?

Quick Comments

	Dox:	it's an optional feature :p question has been raised numerous times
	UHF:	Yes. Chobo shows no signs Catz found regarding Spade.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Sure NA can be a bit harsh in terms of bad manner, but at least not in this regard. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

Quick Comments

	NvJazBas:	Do you have any stream or recording device of your games? would help
	Fourby:	QQ, running away seems like a good option -.-
	FvRelimzkE:	Even if your net is shit, you can record locally and upload 2 youtube
	TAEdgE:	you can set it so only friends can message you :)
	UHF:	I don't blame you - you copped enough flak before all this started
	mGGAequitas:	they jealous at your mad skills, all top players have their haters
	MrToast:	♥ you Kice

[SanG]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

That's too blatant of a call for sympathy, considering you can actual block pms from people not in your f-list.

While i'm still ambiguous on the matter, I reckon this whole thing was bound to happen, because of chobo's online record, lan performance and his playstyle, strength and weakness.

If it were up to me, with replays alone, you would not be considered a hacker, but there were reports of suss activity about you for a while now, and that's why people need more of a definitive proof.

Also, the bold part is messed up

[TAriiChard]

Please tell us who has been email bombing you and pming you! We would all love to know! And how is this guilty until proven innocent? You haven't been punished yet so how are you guilty!?

Quick Comments

	Dox:	apparently spades is too, seems to be the thing to do lately
	AsGNabi:	If it's not obvious, his reputation will be tarnished regardless of the outcome.
	nirvAnA:	read the tone of the posts in the thread and multiple references of "concrete evidence"

[foxmeep]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Sure NA can be a bit harsh in terms of bad manner, but at least not in this regard. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

I haven't read the majority of this thread so I am in no way passing judgement one way or another... but that isn't going to help at all buddy. You're clearly not going to hack (assuming you ever did) in any subsequent games after being accused of hacking.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by TAriiChard

Please tell us who has been email bombing you and pming you! We would all love to know! And how is this guilty until proven innocent? You haven't been punished yet so how are you guilty!?

Why don't you tell me then? your the one sooooooooooooooooooooo consistent to try find out who is email bombing me to see if I know who it was??? that is kind of suspicious... of course anyone who email bomb wouldn't reveal their identity, it was spoofed name, email and message was pretty unoriginal. just sad.

I sent the troll email which I didn't delete to nirvana and up to him to investigate. The emails had to be removed from queue server side.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Ridiculous to hit back at riiChard like that. Uncalled for, he is trying to help.
	nGenLight:	Lol you idiot going after one of the few people who might actually have been empathizing you.
	nirvAnA:	I do not see help at all, i see sarcasm and doubt of chobo's claim.
	Champi:	disgusting to think anyone would doubt riichards sincerity, u should all know better

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by foxmeep

I haven't read the majority of this thread so I am in no way passing judgement one way or another... but that isn't going to help at all buddy. You're clearly not going to hack (assuming you ever did) in any subsequent games after being accused of hacking.

It's the only thing I can really do, because those games I was actually not hacking in so yeah....

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

my responses:
@2:30 - you say his viking pathing is legit to hide the third CC.. why would he naturally go for the top above his main first? - when ever other game he has made the same pathing across his third. What you are suggesting is, he instinctively goes to send it up, then changes his mind as he has more to hide at his natural... this would be fine if his instinctive viking pathing was to go up through the main first - but thanks to UHF's pathing images, it isn't.

everything else in your video is interesting and I think does help support the case that CHobo is not a hacker..

My biggest issues are:
CHobo's horrible responses - dodging future discussions and inconsistency in his responses
EG - He says his GF was on his twitch account watching the stream then claims his Gf claims she was behind him watching.. This suggests that his moments of 0 actions might be him looking at a second monitor with the stream on - maybe he isn't a hacker, but does stream cheat - as Asgchobo was in the stream viewers list (stream cheating is just as bad, it's cheating).. and we know he has at least three screens - after his post on his set up, he shows his main monitor then talks about the other two to the side besides his 'sick DJ set up, bro'..

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

as Asgchobo was in the stream viewers list

If someone's name is in the viewers list, they can have paused the stream and left the page open, or have the chat popped out and closed the main window.

@Chad: Agreed, but it is inconclusive evidence...

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	indeed - but it's all circumstantial evidence that makes a alot of suspicion..
	[TA]LoSt:	.... or they could just have the stream open
	PiG:	every tournament play my name is in that list

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Why don't you tell me then? your the one sooooooooooooooooooooo consistent to try find out who is email bombing me to see if I know who it was??? that is kind of suspicious... of course anyone who email bomb wouldn't reveal their identity, it was spoofed name, email and message was pretty unoriginal. just sad.

I sent the troll email which I didn't delete to nirvana and up to him to investigate. The emails had to be removed from queue server side.

I'm trying to help your cause man. Name and shame all the email addresses as well as all the people pming you on sc2sea so that we can see who the pathetic individuals are.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	PiG:	this tone in your earlier message would have been nice
	EveJeonSa:
	Champi:	no such thing as tone in writing, its up to the readers interpretation

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by System

If someone's name is in the viewers list, they can have paused the stream and left the page open, or have the chat popped out and closed the main window.

Just wanted to add to my rep comment.

I've been in the viewer list in a match in SEAL - but with my internet I can barely watch streams.. let alone have SC2 open aswell, the one occasion I was in the chat list - is as you said, because I had the chat popped out.. as I was in viewing other players games in SC2 and chatting in the chat. And neglected to close the chat when it was time for me to play. I didn't cheat in those games...

BUT, when I was asked about being in the chat - I responded straight away with "wtf?.. oh shit I had the chat popped out and totally forgot, I swear I wasn't cheating" - not, 'my gf was watching on my account..' firstly, why would you give someone your twitch log in details to watch you play?.. you can watch with out logging in.. then he said his GF was behind him watching the game on his screen.. so who actually was on his account watching the game?...

It's inconsistencies in his defence and the circumstantial evidence that makes it seem he is a hacker or a cheater.. I'll admint, there isn't anything that is conclusive. but it is very, very, very suss.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	Suss may be, but it isn't enough to have any weight...
	AsGNabi:	I don't think you understand how lazy I can be.
	PiG:	dot is always on my twitch account cos she uses my laptop to watch in my bedroom...
	Zealo:	you're suggesting he was map hacking AND stream cheating... are you trolling or retarded?

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

Once again, this has absolutely NO WEIGHT on anything. Now you are just fishing for desperate excuses, give it up already and apologise to CHobo dude.

Also, I would assume the main stream and any sub-streams of the Masters Cup should be forced to have a delay on them to stop things like stream cheating happening.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	What?.. it proves he has access to sites that have hacks.
	AsGNabi:	We all have access to sites that have hacks..?

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

my responses:
@2:30 - you say his viking pathing is legit to hide the third CC.. why would he naturally go for the top above his main first? - when ever other game he has made the same pathing across his third. What you are suggesting is, he instinctively goes to send it up, then changes his mind as he has more to hide at his natural... this would be fine if his instinctive viking pathing was to go up through the main first - but thanks to UHF's pathing images, it isn't.

everything else in your video is interesting and I think does help support the case that CHobo is not a hacker..

My biggest issues are:
CHobo's horrible responses - dodging future discussions and inconsistency in his responses
EG - He says his GF was on his twitch account watching the stream then claims his Gf claims she was behind him watching.. This suggests that his moments of 0 actions might be him looking at a second monitor with the stream on - maybe he isn't a hacker, but does stream cheat - as Asgchobo was in the stream viewers list (stream cheating is just as bad, it's cheating).. and we know he has at least three screens - after his post on his set up, he shows his main monitor then talks about the other two to the side besides his 'sick DJ set up, bro'..

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

You must think I would be reaaaaaaaaaaalllyyyyyyyy stupid to while logged into my account watch a stream while playing game. If I was gonna do this trust me mate, I would do it not logged in to my account for starters. That would be a blatant stupidest thing out. From hacker to stream cheat, your running out of ground? figures...

Sorry bud, I have a laptop for my dj set up. Your clearly clueless, by watching me from the screen she meant she could see that I am not hacking and at times when she wanted to see what I was actually doing because there is actually a DELAY on the stream. She was watching my other computer is faced in a opposite direction which is guess what LOGGED INTO MY ACCOUNT because she wanted to hear casting. I will post a photo of the room set-up to show you the complete room. she was fb messaging me the comments like "the caters hatin' on you"

chad. I am sure YOU deep down know I don't need to stream cheat/hack/be a boss or which ever your trying to make calls on atm... to win because I am already skilled enough to take the win. You did have interest in me for this reason did you not? sigh... glad never went down that path I would never be part of that syndicate.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	offtopic - DJing is the equivalent to hacking in music, so i've proven you a hacker outside of the game
	iMSystem:	^ How? O.o
	syfChadMann:	Don't bring Carnage into this - it has nothing to do with it, every other team has posted but you single out carnage.
	Champi:	stop taking stabs at carnage ur clearly not using your head when posting atm

[Rage]

Using the fact that someone is listed in chat as evidence for stream cheating is patently retarded.

Anybody who was going to stream cheat would simply log out beforehand.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

don't call me a retard. That does not dispell the fact that he WAS in the stream.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

Just wanted to add to my rep comment.

I've been in the viewer list in a match in SEAL - but with my internet I can barely watch streams.. let alone have SC2 open aswell, the one occasion I was in the chat list - is as you said, because I had the chat popped out.. as I was in viewing other players games in SC2 and chatting in the chat. And neglected to close the chat when it was time for me to play. I didn't cheat in those games...

BUT, when I was asked about being in the chat - I responded straight away with "wtf?.. oh shit I had the chat popped out and totally forgot, I swear I wasn't cheating" - not, 'my gf was watching on my account..' firstly, why would you give someone your twitch log in details to watch you play?.. you can watch with out logging in.. then he said his GF was behind him watching the game on his screen.. so who actually was on his account watching the game?...

It's inconsistencies in his defence and the circumstantial evidence that makes it seem he is a hacker or a cheater.. I'll admint, there isn't anything that is conclusive. but it is very, very, very suss.

its logged in automatically jesus your bad

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	BMing in your defence isn't a good idea. ..|..
	FvRphoneheha:	Man's right, don't bring any more flak onto yourself :(

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by Rage

Using the fact that someone is listed in chat as evidence for stream cheating is patently retarded.

Anybody who was going to stream cheat would simply log out beforehand.

REP x 110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

then please close the box so ur name wont be listed so ur others/oponents will have an ease of mind while playing