[dippa]

Originally Posted by Sedz

I still think people should lay off so aggressively accusing until we actually have an executive decision by people who are in no way related to this community.

People who aren't related to the community shouldn't be within a bee's dick of making "executive decisions" for that community.

Quick Comments

Zepph:

[Kepler]

Originally Posted by dippa

People who aren't related to the community shouldn't be within a bee's dick of making "executive decisions" for that community.

Why are you implying Sedz wants to make that executive decision? His argument is that a bunch of TA guys shouldn't be the one to make decisions. There's far too much bias and emotion on both sides of this argument.

Edit: My bad, I misread.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	LOL he's not implying that sedz wants to make the executive decision.......
	TABiggun:	lol, you completely misunderstood
	xGKingdelete:

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by dippa

People who aren't related to the community shouldn't be within a bee's dick of making "executive decisions" for that community.

Then why are people wanting to get Catz involved? I was kind of implying that it shouldn't be left up to anyone who's big in this community because obviously their opinion is biased as demonstrated in this thread.

Anyways, I'm out for arguing for one night. Just going to wait and see what ends up happening.

And if CHobo is proven to be a hacker I will gladly eat my words and apologise to all those who I may have offended, and if he isn't, well, we'll see how mature this community is.

[SanG]

Originally Posted by Sedz

Then why are people wanting to get Catz involved? I was kind of implying that it shouldn't be left up to anyone who's big in this community because obviously their opinion is biased as demonstrated in this thread.

Anyways, I'm out for arguing for one night. Just going to wait and see what ends up happening.

And if CHobo is proven to be a hacker I will gladly eat my words and apologise to all those who I may have offended, and if he isn't, well, we'll see how mature this community is.

He's just one guy, who's not from this community.

Besides, someone has already sent in the replays.

Also, you're like um spastic -_- Chill bro

Quick Comments

ToRCrispy:

lol

[Rage]

nirvana, can I make a request that this thread be locked for 48 hours? That gives people time to think, it gives CatZ time to respond in the affirmative and negative, and in general will put the brakes on this utter stupidity that has been the last 1-2 pages.

It is doing nobody any good remaining open right now.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:	its only people like you who have nothing to add to this thread and keep posting stupid crap that are ruining this threa
	PiG:
	nirvAnA:
	EveVendetta:	He has not been posting 'stupid crap'.

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Kepler

Why are you implying Sedz wants to make that executive decision? His argument is that a bunch of TA guys shouldn't be the one to make decisions. There's far too much bias and emotion on both sides of this argument.

What? Are you out of your mind?

Where on earth did I say or imply that Sedz wanted to make the executive decision? I'm simply saying that communities should deal with shit in-house. What does it say about SEA if we have to call on pros from North America - who aren't as good as some of our players, to be frank - or anyone else, to make decisions for us?

[syfChadMann]

OKAY ENOUGH OF THE HE SAID THIS YOU SAID THAT BULLSHIT

If you are not going to add to the discussion or bring into light new evidence or prove some sort of defence.
DON'T
FKING
POST.

The end.

Quick Comments

	Cyanide:
	nirvAnA:
	TCPLemminks:
	FvRphoneheha:
	neKo:
	ninja brett:
	mGGDaedalus:

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

OKAY ENOUGH OF THE HE SAID THIS YOU SAID THAT BULLSHIT

If you are not going to add to the discussion or bring into light new evidence or prove some sort of defence.
DON'T
FKING
POST.

The end.

just want to remind everyone of this.
if you want to debate if Rossi and Mafia are high level - do it elsewhere, this thread needs to be clear of clutter so the evidence can be examined.

Also, I think its a fair assumption - unless you you probably should comment on the strategic nature of the games.. if you see something obvious to a scrub that he is cheating - then mention it.. if not, don't post.

[UHF]

I noticed a few people talking about Vikings and their flight paths, so i rewatched the games on Ohana (again) and took caps and notes.



I took note of all the flight nodes that were taken or intended to be taken for Vikings (sometimes they changed course or were killed). I also took note of the Medivac drop paths (pink), in case there was some kind of 'muscle memory' thing going on.

LEFT MINIMAP - Northern position
- Scout to own 3rd then to top right
- To Expo outside main
- Scout across front of base
- Behind 3rd base
- Up Left side

MIDDLE MINIMAP - Southern position
- Scout to own 3rd then to bottom left
- To Expo outside main
- Scout across front of base
- Behind 3rd base
- Down right side

RIGHT MINIMAP - Northern position
- Scout across own 3rd
- To Expo outside main
- Back up then across map to own expo
- Down behind 3rd base
- Back up, then to top right
- Down right side

All 3 games had REDICUOUSLY similar flight 'plans'. Scout out his own 3rd base, go to the corner, go to the opponents expo/main, then scout the other side of the map. The only difference between the 3 games, is in 2 of them he scouts across the front of his opponents base. The game where he DOESN'T do this is when he encounters units at the opponents expo (2nd step), and instead of cutting across the map he goes back up and around the long way to complete the 'plan'. Whether he knows it or not, he has a routine for his Vikings.

Also, his Medivac drops were quite similar - one at an expo and one at the main. TAKE NOTE - many of these medivac drops were sent through overlord sight.

I know it doesn't totally prove he is innocent, but I would suggest it's a pretty good counter arguement.

Proof I capped all this rubbish is below - but not terribly interesting.

+ [Flight Path image 01] +

+ [Flight Path Image 02] +

+ [Flight Path Image 03] +

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	This is amazing. You are amazing sir. We need more posts LIKE this.
	TCPLemminks:
	PiG:
	CHoBo(kice):	Bro I was made aware of this post, I was never to login but the effort you put into it needs a rep. T Y
	crAzerk:	nice
	iVnStinger:	Contributing a lot. Good work sir!
	Kepler:	This would've taken some serious effort. Nice job.
	Snx.FigJig:
	Sedz:	A guy with a brain. Thanks!
	TAriiChard:
	RicocheT:	Awesome diagram. Will read post after I stare at diagram =D
	NvRossi:	good effort!
	Synizta:
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:
	neKo:
	Champi:
	mGGDaedalus:	any more ohana chobo games we can add to this analysis?
	xGKingdelete:
	Nemo:	Wow ! Impressive work !

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by UHF

+ [UHF Post] +

I noticed a few people talking about Vikings and their flight paths, so i rewatched the games on Ohana (again) and took caps and notes.



I took note of all the flight nodes that were taken or intended to be taken for Vikings (sometimes they changed course or were killed). I also took note of the Medivac drop paths (pink), in case there was some kind of 'muscle memory' thing going on.

LEFT MINIMAP - Northern position
- Scout to own 3rd then to top right
- To Expo outside main
- Scout across front of base
- Behind 3rd base
- Up Left side

MIDDLE MINIMAP - Southern position
- Scout to own 3rd then to bottom left
- To Expo outside main
- Scout across front of base
- Behind 3rd base
- Down right side

RIGHT MINIMAP - Northern position
- Scout across own 3rd
- To Expo outside main
- Back up then across map to own expo
- Down behind 3rd base
- Back up, then to top right
- Down right side

All 3 games had REDICUOUSLY similar flight 'plans'. Scout out his own 3rd base, go to the corner, go to the opponents expo/main, then scout the other side of the map. The only difference between the 3 games, is in 2 of them he scouts across the front of his opponents base. The game where he DOESN'T do this is when he encounters units at the opponents expo (2nd step), and instead of cutting across the map he goes back up and around the long way to complete the 'plan'. Whether he knows it or not, he has a routine for his Vikings.

Also, his Medivac drops were quite similar - one at an expo and one at the main. TAKE NOTE - many of these medivac drops were sent through overlord sight.

I know it doesn't totally prove he is innocent, but I would suggest it's a pretty good counter arguement.

Proof I capped all this rubbish is below - but not terribly interesting.

+ [Flight Path image 01] +

+ [Flight Path Image 02] +

+ [Flight Path Image 03] +

Great effort -
However, the pathing is actually significantly different - screens worth of different locations and the pathing is very, very close to alot of overlords. This does as much to disprove he is a hacker as prove it tho.. In the replays - are there always Overlords in those locations? does the similarity in play from the zergs explain the similar flight paths of the viking?.. knowing there are Ovies there.

But this evidence does help..

[TABiggun]

I just don't know how on shakuras vs mafia at 5:30 chobo randomly looks at the main and natural for no reason, how this is not evidence.

[deL]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

I just don't know how on shakuras vs mafia at 5:30 chobo randomly looks at the main and natural for no reason, how this is not evidence.

If he is hacking wouldn't it stop him doing this by locking the screen when he tries to look in to the FoW?

Quick Comments

	Dox:	it's an optional feature :p question has been raised numerous times
	UHF:	Yes. Chobo shows no signs Catz found regarding Spade.

[NvRossi]

only the initial flight plans are relevant imo as the rest could simply be a guise to distract observers.

The accuracy of the initial attack paths, especially the 3rd game is irrefutable. All overlords are taken out with the first attack path.

Quick Comments

Kepler:

So he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't? How does that make sense?

[UHF]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

only the initial flight plans are relevant imo as the rest could simply be a guise to distract observers. The accuracy of the initial attack paths, especially the 3rd game is irrefutable. All overlords are taken out with the first attack path.

Ok - take the game against Mafia, at 9:20 his initial Viking goes straight to the Overlord and it looks like hacks.

However, at 6:28 - Mafia reveals his overlord when Chobo builds his natural. Chobo immediately see this as he is moving an SCV to build his 3rd - and temporarily moves the SCV to the overlord direction before clicking back to make the 3rd. It's very subtle and it is easy to miss.

+ [Image of revealed Overlord] +

So when you see the Viking move directly towards the Overlord at 9:20ish - it seems like he is hacking, however that is the last known location to Chobo.

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

Great effort -
However, the pathing is actually significantly different - screens worth of different locations and the pathing is very, very close to alot of overlords. This does as much to disprove he is a hacker as prove it tho.. In the replays - are there always Overlords in those locations? does the similarity in play from the zergs explain the similar flight paths of the viking?.. knowing there are Ovies there.

But this evidence does help..

The actual flight plans are so close it's uncanny. The left image was against Mafia - the middle/right images is the FLIPPED version of Enders game. The right image was the initial flight path - however he hits the main and there is a Queen there. He deviates and the middle image is the new flight plan.



He uses the same flight plans (not paths) in all 3 games - and makes changes along the way depending on what he encounters - one game its a Queen, the other is a whole bunch of other units. However he always does the same plan.

The only game that is slightly different which is against Peleus - a practice game with no bearing and never intended for viewing. The only real difference in the flight plan here is that instead of checking behind his nat/3rd, he cuts straight across. HOWEVER he immediately sends Marines to scout the back of the 3rd after the Viking has left, even though there is nothing there to be scouted.

I think the overlords being there is all coincidental and the 3 zergs that he played all use similar overlord scouting paths. In my mind that's far more plausible then Chobo being some mastermind hacker that has the foresight to trick us to believing he is 'scouting' his 3rd with marines that he missed scouting with his viking and even though there is nothing there he just has to check to make us THINK he is scouting.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[NvRossi]

@Kepler: So he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't? How does that make sense?

my point is the initial paths are damning...

[Kepler]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

@Kepler: So he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't? How does that make sense?

my point is the initial paths are damning...

They're exactly the same pattern though. I'm not refuting your point, I just don't see why they're damning if someone follows a similar pattern each game.

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by Kepler

They're exactly the same pattern though. I'm not refuting your point, I just don't see why they're damning if someone follows a similar pattern each game.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=621

[ROOT`iaguz]

His initial viking path in the metropolis game against ender completely misses an overlord. Your argument is invalid. In fact absolutely nothing in the metropolis game suggests he's hacking at all, he plays a completely normal legit game.

[InteGrand]

Mafia seems to be very enraged at chobo. More hostile than he needs to be to able to deal with the problem level-headedly. Mafia is a gosu pro so this game obviously means a lot to him, and reading over some of the accusations he's made and what chobo/delete in defense, I can't help but think Mafia is putting a lot of unnecessary personal anger into this. Could mafia be over-reacting due to losing to chobo who he probably considered to be out of his league?

As a humble noob, speaking against mafia will probably result in a painful and gory death on sc2sea. But I feel like there need to be more level-headed posts from different perspectives.


And protoss imba.

Quick Comments

	jayaiwhy:	you're fucked now, inte.
	AxSGRiM:	could protoss really be op?
	mGGAequitas:	what does protoss have to do with anything??
	TABiggun:	no need for more opinions, last thing we need
	iVnStinger:	I feel you man, but it does not contribute to the case at all
	MooZfY:	yeyeyeyeye
	PiG:	I agree mafia's opinion shouldn
	ROOTPetraeus:	protoss ez
	Champi:	is MVP the next zerg bonjwa?
	xGKingdelete:	more pointless neg rep?

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by InteGrand

Mafia seems to be very enraged at chobo. More hostile than he needs to be to able to deal with the problem level-headedly. Mafia is a gosu pro so this game obviously means a lot to him, and reading over some of the accusations he's made and what chobo/delete in defense, I can't help but think Mafia is putting a lot of unnecessary personal anger into this. Could mafia be over-reacting due to losing to chobo who he probably considered to be out of his league?

As a humble noob, speaking against mafia will probably result in a painful and gory death on sc2sea. But I feel like there need to be more level-headed posts from different perspectives.


And protoss imba.

mafia actually didnt consider he hacked at all until evidence was brought to his attention and then he made his own resolution based off his own analysis into multiple replays.

Quick Comments

	Fourby:	This is true
	TABiggun:	this is what happened