[Strafe]

Originally Posted by cruxis

I have an idea.

Send the replays to Catz. He went through Spades replays today and showed the signs of hacking. Some of them were really ******* obscure.

So, why not send the replays to Catz to investigate. He has no interest in the players, the tournament, for the SEA community, so he will be completely neutral. You can even take it a step further and not tell him which player you think is hacking, and if he says Chobo was hacking, then it's a fairly safe bet that he was. If he says he can't find sufficient evidence of either player hacking, well, most probably innocent.

Go for it. But looking through these replays is a lot of effort. Another reason why efforts by Rossi and Mafia to settle this should be applauded. But for that very reason I do not expect a player like Catz to take his time for some no names( no offense, but to him none of us are known ) to see if either one is hacking or not. What's in it for him? Unless he's a crusader of the fairness of esports I doubt he'll be taking a few hours of his time for this.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by cruxis

I sohuld also add then: He hates hackers and is happy to help in finding them out and ruining their SC career. He went through like 8 of Spades replays over the course of 2 hours.

Well then go ahead.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by AntiMetric

1) If Chobo could see what was waiting for him, why would he send his scvs halfway across before pulling them back?

2) I think 2 spines is definitely scary enough to give up the attack, if zerg pulls their drones and transfuses you won't be able to break that.

3) It's a good thing this video doesn't matter at all because LOL THAT FIRST VIKING VIDEO

Yes, rather than throw away a game and try go up a ramp with uncertainty. 2 spines queen... what if he had bane etc that I couldn't see. based on the double spine and queen he was read for this attack and who knows what more he could have why would i try force myself up a wall that's gonna lose the game.

So I did something which would look like something stupid in most peoples eyes.. go back and try to outmacro... which I did and won... pretty impressive game imo.

Quick Comments

	Pandan:	wat
	Snx.Mufasa:	vikings dood
	jayaiwhy:	didn't nestea or drg do something similar at MLG? Pulled all his drones when he 6pooled and pulled it back
	TAEdgE:	what the **** at the last line
	sRAnti:	Uh, you missed number 3. I wasn't backing you up, just refining one of Rossi's points
	x5.Revenant:	Pretty impressively big ego imo.
	neKo:	You said earlier that you wanted to show everybody that you can macro and still win

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Sorry Pinder but my gf is probably a 11 and defiantly worth ******* tabbing out for.

BTW: Master Cup - I was not playing for the money.... I was playing for FUN. Getting this sort of response makes it not fun at all.

I don't see myself having a eSports career in response to Mafia and I do agree with Targa in the sense which I could be better in many aspects. But this would require investing endless amounts of time into the game which I am not prepared to do.

pics or it didnt happen

Quick Comments

	ROCCAT_Savior:	exactly. i've been waiting for pics for over 2 hours. **** is this.
	jayaiwhy:	I can vouch

[syfChadMann]

I think the evidence is starting to stack up... I'd like to hear from someone that knows about the hacks and how they work, maybe someone can get in touch with evets and he can start to clear his name by helping find the hackers...

However, unless something new can be brought up - this thread is starting to derail.. so keep it to new discussion or new points - if you simply agree with someone, give them a positive or neutral rep, if you disagree write a neutral rep..

anyway, I think the evidence is there but sadly it is not conclusive - the Viking pathing is suss, but not overly, it is inconsistant, but he sends a viking to between his main and nat a few times and then once, he doesn't.. could he have seen the first scouting ovie and known that it went to the top of his main, and not between his main an nat? I think there are a few circumstances about how he might have seen the overlords in the early game that needs to be considered...

Finally, CHobo - if you are indeed a hacker, come clean, save everyone the time. If you are not, you need a big post that addresses the accusations (including pics of GF) and then let the discussion take its course. If you are truely innocent, state your case and move on, but you need to address the accusations. But as I said, if you hack.. just save us all alot of time and come clean. I'll think your balls are massive if you can front up to it and take it like a man..

EDIT: happy now Saviour?..
EDIT: Pandan: Rep is a system that people can use to reply to the posts rather than filling a thread that needs to contain evidence for people to access. Too many random useless posts make it hard to find the important posts that need to be addressed. Is all I'm sayin'.

Quick Comments

	ROCCAT_Savior:	also pics of gf.
	Pandan:	Who cares about rep? srsly. If they no likely, you get sadfase, otherwise it kind of loses the effect!
	mGGDaedalus:	agreed. more replays less flaming plz
	sRAnti:	I feel like the 1st viking video is pretty conclusive, but good post
	nirvAnA:
	LennX:	Why the fixation on his gf? It just feel stalkerish and getting an innocent party involved.
	x5.Revenant:	^You're getting trolled.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Yes, rather than throw away a game and try go up a ramp with uncertainty. 2 spines queen... what if he had bane etc that I couldn't see. based on the double spine and queen he was read for this attack and who knows what more he could have why would i try force myself up a wall that's gonna lose the game.

So I did something which would look like something stupid in most peoples eyes.. go back and try to outmacro... which I did and won... pretty impressive game imo.

Just for the record, Do You HacK?????

[Meatex]

I may not be top level but those overlord positions seem pretty standard for the map
I see it on streams from pros and I use the same positioning for my overlords
Suss perhaps but far from damning

Quick Comments

CHoBo(kice):

Ty sir

[CHoBo(kice)]

I cannot believe your still asking that question.

NO

I hate hackers myself!!!! >.>

Quick Comments

	Another:	thats what a hacker would say
	iVnStinger:	Though it's also what non-hackers would say too :/
	xGKingdelete:	good point stinger
	AxSGRiM:	emo lol jk

[Pandan]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

Finally, CHobo - if you are indeed a hacker, come clean, save everyone the time. If you are not, you need a big post that addresses the accusations and then let the discussion take its course. If you are truely innocent, state your case and move on, but you need to address the accusations. But as I said, if you hack.. just save us all alot of time and come clean. I'll think your balls are massive if you can front up to it and take it like a man..

I disagree with that point. If he cannot be proven to cheat, he needs to be watched and PROVE he doesn't by playing.

Unfortunately words on internets won't always work (especially because some people r liek stupidz n stuff an sumtiems they gget wordz mist8kn and dun esplain well)

[iceiceice]

I posted this in the iFinity chat, I guess I can post it here as well.

Right now there are 3 types of people defending chobo,

1. people from perth
2. nirvana
3. people that dislike targa

What do they all have in common? They ____ at starcraft 2. ( fill in the blanks yo)

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	BANNED
	iM tgun:	.
	CHoBo(kice):	its already been posted by targa and its not even funny
	syfChadMann:	-_____-
	ROOTPetraeus:	you're a disappointment to your team.
	Stallion:	pointless
	x5.Revenant:	You're a disappointment to Chobos, Pet. :(
	neKo:	pos rep for trying. cause it matters
	crAzerk:	cant neg rep targa so here's yours
	AxSGRiM:	iceiceice~
	deL:	.
	ToR.Arnor:	awesome contribution DERP

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by iceiceice

I posted this in the iFinity chat, I guess I can post it here as well.

Right now there are 3 types of people defending chobo,

1. people from perth
2. nirvana
3. people that dislike targa

What do they all have in common? They ____ at starcraft 2. ( fill in the blanks yo)

Really dude...

Quick Comments

CHoBo(kice):

[iceiceice]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

I cannot believe your still asking that question.

NO

you're*




The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

I cannot believe your still asking that question.

NO

I hate hackers myself!!!! >.>

OK then. I would like to hear your account/explanation of TWO situations.

Quote 1:

"Chobo looks into the main and then just randomly pauses for a moment with no actions at 5:30 as a baneling nest is being constructed and I also noted this was happening throughout many of the replays; a random pause with no actions. In sc2gears i looked throughout that time at his actions and there was no right click with his scvs on the mineral patches or anything, just a random look into the main and then natural."

Quote 2:

"Also, if you watch all of Chobo's TvZs he plays completely blind the whole game whenever the zerg goes infestors. Yet on the shakuras game when Mafia was morphing a greater spire he scans both the main and the natural. And on the Ohana game he also scans Mafia's main when he is building a spire. In all other games there were no scans and no scouting, and in all these games the zerg went infestors."

If you can clear up these two situations then it would clear up a lot of things.

[nirvAnA]

my chat with ice

[5:29:05 PM] Bryan Choo (nirvAnA): lol ice
[5:29:10 PM] Bryan Choo (nirvAnA): dont involve yourself in the drama
[5:29:12 PM] ecireve: TROLL
[5:29:19 PM] Bryan Choo (nirvAnA): im serious, delete it
[5:29:28 PM] Bryan Choo (nirvAnA): if not i have to ban you cause i banned targa
[5:29:30 PM] ecireve: nooooo
[5:29:34 PM] ecireve: ban ban!
[5:29:35 PM] ecireve: i made
[5:29:36 PM] ecireve: a bet
[5:29:37 PM] ecireve: with them
[5:29:39 PM] ecireve: you have to ban me

If you guys wanna catch this guy, this trolling / derailment is not helping at all. stick to the topic!

and actually thinking about it ice doesn't troll consistently enough for that to warrant a ban, it would be a warning at most for derailing a very important issue at hand so too bad you lost your bet.

Quick Comments

	Stallion:	excatly
	TCPLemminks:	oh snap

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by Chobo

i did poke up the ramp, while i could win, i could also lose. My decision to pull back because i wanted to make an entertaining game, to show i can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Yes, rather than throw away a game and try go up a ramp with uncertainty. 2 spines queen... what if he had bane etc that I couldn't see. based on the double spine and queen he was read for this attack and who knows what more he could have why would i try force myself up a wall that's gonna lose the game.

So I did something which would look like something stupid in most peoples eyes.. go back and try to outmacro... which I did and won... pretty impressive game imo.

"I went to go all in, but I wanted to make an entertaining game and show I can go from an all-in to macro and win"
"... Hang on, I mean I was uncertain as to whether he had banes and I just assumed from the 2 spines he was ready for it, why would I go in when I think I'm gonna lose?"

[ROOT`iaguz]

Not sure if that's iceiceice or TargA on ice's account. Big Questions.

Anyways, I edited a post previously but I'll put it in here so people actually read it:

When I watch those links, it's not amazing that he found overlords. Zergs always put overlords on the sides of ohana, around the main ledges and that area behind the natural. Ender and Mafia had very similar positions for their overlords, so do most zergs on that map. Zergs who don't suck balls position overlords around drop lanes, you can't call someone a hacker that they do this. Rossi, have you ever made a viking and just flown it around and got overlords because you can predict without looking where they'll probably be, and had it be successful? I have plenty of times.

What is really suspect is the fact his habits change. His path in the ender and mafia games is very similar and covers a lot of ground and is just sensible terran play, but the fact that in the peleus game it changes a lot, he skips a lot of ground. Although in the Peleus game he makes a point of running that one viking around a ton, even over large stretches of map that is clear of overlords (the full left of the map) all game long.

As for the pylon thing, it's careless that he didn't check all the third, but rossi you know as well as I do that there's always an additional pylon. Didn't Ray ever teach you that? We'd need to see a lot more replays of him locating the hidden protoss pylons more often. Remember later in that game he does load a full doom drop right underneath an observer and move them right over a pylon before realising it'd been spotted.

The main 100% thing that makes me think he's a hacker is the pull back of the century. That simply does not make sense to me at all.

Quick Comments

	Pox:	all good points
	Eddie:	Good points.I think the pull back was fine since he could assume was scouted, as it was.
	nirvAnA:

[iceiceice]

my 50 bucks..

Quick Comments

jayaiwhy:

ban ban!

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by Pandan

I disagree with that point. If he cannot be proven to cheat, he needs to be watched and PROVE he doesn't by playing.

Unfortunately words on internets won't always work (especially because some people r liek stupidz n stuff an sumtiems they gget wordz mist8kn and dun esplain well)

Can't expect someone who is legitimately innocent to be constantly addressing everyone's tiny concerns. He does need to prove it to us at LAN. But his silly one line responses aren't going him any favours.

Address the accusations or admit to them. Then prove to us that you are innocent.
Is all I'm saying.

Pandan, your spelling is horrible mate.
Grammar, it is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

Quick Comments

Pandan:

haha. But srsly, he's clearly going to avoid it - we're going to be forced to see him prove himself as a good player over time, methinks

[NvRossi]

i notice everyone is also ignoring the considerable amount of screen locks prevalent in my tvt with him on korhal in which i detail in my previous post.

Im incredibly surprised by the fact that such blatant abuse can be shrugged at with such pissweak excuses.

Quick Comments

	iM yang:	but he has to talk on facebook to his 11/10 gf
	iceiceice:	i agree.
	TABiggun:	You can't tab and read and reply in 3 seconds. Also, I agree with rossi. Why is this being ignored and also my post.
	sRAnti:	There's just so much suspicious stuff

[nirvAnA]

btw a very similar situation is going on at TL as well.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=342248

here is their mod message, which basically echoes what i have been trying to say in my posts, which targa has interpreted wrongly as me defending him

Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.


And here is a relevant post from TT1 on the gravity of hack accusations

if theres no concrete proof of him hacking then the OP deserves to be banned for life because this is the worse thing that u can do to a player, i still didnt get a chance to look over the posts/replays but if its true then spades's professional career is pretty much fucked and even if hes not hacking the damage has been done to his image, tournament organizers will never invite him to a showmatch after seeing something like this

dont post threads like this unless ur 100% sure that u have concrete evidence(i.e: ingame action proofs), u can suspect someone of hacking through gameplay alone but thats not enought evidence, its just a good starting point to start a case against someone

edit: and if ur going to accuse someone of hacking through gameplay ur going to have to analyse more than 7 replays, even if he looks like the biggest hacker in those 7 games its not a big enought sample. u need to analyse like ~100 replays

Quick Comments

Champi:

i dont think Tt1 is someone anybody should look up to or take advice from, he hacked in BW and complains abt anything