[x5_Bard]

UHF has listed the correct parsing in his post, Rossi's is in the wrong time ^^

The only thing that SC2gears can conclude is that Chobo watched his ramp with his camera unmoving for ~20 seconds performing no actions. While this sounds suspicious it could be for any number of innocent reasons. Also I dont think his camera is locked at all, he just looks AFK lol

That being said I feel that there is enough evidence in the mafia games. Its blatantly obvious that something weird is going on.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

take a sip of water = HACKER!!!

[TABiggun]

Although some evidence was incorrect, there is still the suspicious and random 'look' chobo did at mafia's main at 5:30 in the Shakuras game. And also an explanation of why someone plays completely blind then the only two game where there is a spire, Chobo decides to scan the main. Of course, there are many questionable things but I would say these are some which need some explaining.

These are the two biggest concerns for me and I fully explain the situation in my previous post at the bottom of page 27.

[Rage]

I'm not convinced.

I'd rather see a thousand guilty maphackers go unpunished than see us attack an innocent person - and we can never be sure.

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

how do you know hes innocent

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

After doing a 4 rax scv pull and getting to your opponents ramp you decide, with no information other than there are two queens and 2 spines, that instead of trying to attack and win the game at that moment which is the point of your build, to pull back and show that you can macro?

That makes absolutely no sense and is the worst possible explanation for why you would make a decision like that.

Also, I would like to hear your explanation of the things I outlined in my post such as the random look into the main and natural at 5:30 on the shakuras game vs mafia and also the playing completely blind in TvZ then in the only games where your opponent went spire tech, you decide to scan the main (ohana and shakuras vs mafia).

Originally Posted by TABiggun

OK then. I would like to hear your account/explanation of TWO situations.

Quote 1:

"Chobo looks into the main and then just randomly pauses for a moment with no actions at 5:30 as a baneling nest is being constructed and I also noted this was happening throughout many of the replays; a random pause with no actions. In sc2gears i looked throughout that time at his actions and there was no right click with his scvs on the mineral patches or anything, just a random look into the main and then natural."

Quote 2:

"Also, if you watch all of Chobo's TvZs he plays completely blind the whole game whenever the zerg goes infestors. Yet on the shakuras game when Mafia was morphing a greater spire he scans both the main and the natural. And on the Ohana game he also scans Mafia's main when he is building a spire. In all other games there were no scans and no scouting, and in all these games the zerg went infestors."

If you can clear up these two situations then it would clear up a lot of things.

If you don't know what to reply to then here's a start.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by Bard

The only thing that SC2gears can conclude is that Chobo watched his ramp with his camera unmoving for ~20 seconds performing no actions. While this sounds suspicious it could be for any number of innocent reasons. Also I dont think his camera is locked at all, he just looks AFK lol

Why would you go AFK in a masters cup game? You're playing for money! If I was playing in the masters cup, I would be spamming like a mofo (partly to look good in case they check EPM/APM, but also so my fingers are fully warmed up for epic micro battles to come). Plus in 20 seconds, you have a lot to do. Supply depots, moar marinez, moar rax, moar scvs, etc. You can't just simply afk 20 seconds in a masters cup game, especially against Peleus (props to Bard for the correction)

I personally haven't analysed the replays so I won't comment on the rest of it.

Edit: My bad Bard D=

Quick Comments

x5_Bard:

The game was not against mafia it was vs peleus.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by FaDeUndoNe

Why would you go AFK in a masters cup game? You're playing for money! If I was playing in the masters cup, I would be spamming like a mofo (partly to look good in case they check EPM/APM, but also so my fingers are fully warmed up for epic micro battles to come). Plus in 20 seconds, you have a lot to do. Supply depots, moar marinez, moar rax, moar scvs, etc. You can't just simply afk 20 seconds in a masters cup game, especially against Mafia.

I personally haven't analysed the replays so I won't comment on the rest of it.

To be honest I find the parts of replays where he 'screen locks' for 1-3 seconds much more sus than 20 seconds.

You'd never do nothing for 20 seconds unless you were afk, it doesnt take you 20 seconds of staring off camara to figure out what your opponent is doing, whens the last time you saw a terran player look at what he scanned for more than half a second? Players playing at this level have seen everything that can be seen in the game 1,000 times over, we don't sit there scratching our chins deducing what every building is then deciding our next plan of action while doing it.

I'd say 99% chance hes afk/answering the phone/accidentally alt tabbed or something here.

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by FaDeUndoNe

Why would you go AFK in a masters cup game? You're playing for money! If I was playing in the masters cup, I would be spamming like a mofo (partly to look good in case they check EPM/APM, but also so my fingers are fully warmed up for epic micro battles to come). Plus in 20 seconds, you have a lot to do. Supply depots, moar marinez, moar rax, moar scvs, etc. You can't just simply afk 20 seconds in a masters cup game, especially against Mafia.

I personally haven't analysed the replays so I won't comment on the rest of it.

To make it clear, this was not a MC game, it was 15 minutes beforehand in a ladder game.

I agree that the sc2gears thing is 'irrelevant' in the sense of matching actions as the time in the original is wrongly correlated to in game time, although I too was fooled to begin with so I'm not blaming anyone for the misunderstanding. On one side it points out the dangers (that I am also susceptible too) of being in a 'hack' mind frame and jumping to that conclusion whenever you see something amiss. On the flip side one mistake doesn't nullify the other questionable actions that have been made and need to be explained.

Considering that sc2gears simply parses the information from the replay file, and the replay you view is the sc2 engine reconstructing the game from the command lines in these files it would be extremely unusual / impossible for something to be in sc2gears that isn't in the replay also. (Once more, not pointing fingers or sounding like I know it all, I was wrong at the start too).

Quick Comments

RicocheT:

Aight, thanks for clarifying =]

[nirvAnA]

I have added a note to Rossi's original "concrete evidence" log post, so people new to this thread do not get the wrong idea. This is why checks need to be extremely thorough before such accusations are made. A lot of people, myself included were misled by this and thought chobo was a confirmed hacker, when in reality, there was an error in the sc2gears time with blizzard time and game time not being aligned properly in the replay. This was verified by paperclip as well.

The correct log posted by UHF is in this post and indications no actions at all http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=571

Lesson learned: don't be so quick to judge, take time make sure the method is 100% full proof before making such an accusation.

9:20 Peleus Deselect 3 units
9:21 AsGCHoBo Select Marine x4 (10290,102a0,40310,70384), Deselect all
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.3,y=127.0
9:21 Peleus Right click; target: Extractor (103f8)
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.5,y=126.2
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.7,y=126.0
9:21 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:21 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:21 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:21 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:22 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:22 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Train Zergling
9:22 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (203e0), Deselect 1 unit
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (103e8), Deselect 2 units
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (103f0), Deselect 3 units
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (10400), Deselect 4 units
9:24 Peleus Select Drone x5 (40274,902f0,30328,2038c,203c8), Deselect all
9:25 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:26 Peleus Select Drone x14 (402f8,40308,b032c,50338,70358,10364,9036c,3037c,2 0394,20398,203a4,103bc,203c0,203d0), Deselect all
9:27 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:31 Peleus Hotkey Select 1
9:31 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:32 Peleus Select Queen (20298), Deselect all
9:33 Peleus Spawn Larva (Queen); target: Hatchery (101fc)
9:33 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x4 (100300,1041c,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x4 (100300,1041c,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x5 (100300,1041c,20420,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x5 (100300,1041c,20420,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (100300), Deselect 1 unit
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (1041c), Deselect 2 units
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (20420), Deselect 3 units
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (10424), Deselect 4 units
9:36 Peleus Train Zergling
9:36 Peleus Select Egg (1042c), Deselect 5 units
9:36 Peleus Select Queen (2030c), Deselect all
9:39 AsGCHoBo Hotkey Select 1
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Hotkey Select 2

The actions corroborate exactly with the replay. No actions made. ALT-tab? Gf called? screen lock? who knows it just isn't conclusive at all.

[Spud]

Scans in game 1 vs mafia at 15minutes to reveal greater spire are hilarious. (only scan till that point)
Chobo u are a dirty fking c.u.n.t

Yang why keep it clean.
This dickbag is winning money and ruining the game to prop up his own fked ego.
I dont know why u are all defending him.
This should be an execution not a gay discussion

Quick Comments

	iM yang:	keep it clean champ
	mGGDaedalus:	contribute or stop cluttering the thread
	Uglymutt:	Contributes nothing
	iM MaFia:	HAHAHAHHA
	ROOTPetraeus:	wtf mafia
	Snx.FigJig:	no
	Strafe:	Since when do we execute on a strong suspicion without hearing the other side first?
	Dox:	rep is really serious and important
	RicocheT:	I dont see how you justified yourself just there mate...
	ToR.Arnor:	calm down man, im happy your back, but cool your heals T_T
	neKo:	Oh god my sides
	mGGAequitas:	after reading all the evidence in this post I must say th.... oh wait...
	syfCabracan:	This is the capital punishment of starcraft, treat it more seriously please.
	deL:	SHOOT FIRST ASK QUESTIONS LATER

[Stallion]

Hay guys could someone who plays terran at a high level like rossi, iaguz, yoon make a list of the timings that terran needs to scout in tvz for things like fast muta/roach bling all in etc and can chobo answer how he scouted or knew about them? I don't think we should automatically condemn him for a few screen locks. I mean sure its suss but maybe he alt tabbed or something. I also don't have much experience in playing chobo but from what i understand he is a fairly cheese/unorthodox player so some of his random scouting paths may have a reason from him as to why he does it. If you do have a reason for these Chobo could you simply explian them? I'd hate to condemn someone who is innocent

[CHoBo(kice)]

My response to Quote 1:

The reason for the pausing / AFK

I had hay fever... I sneezed all over keyboard and shit.... it was for valid reason

For Quote 2

The ling, festor is a much popular style in Korea and in general opposed to the ling,bane muta.

Although I believed I knew mafia's style really well... I was actually scared that game when I was constantly scanning. In case he did something crazy

Edit: I do alt-tab frequently also because my gf msgs me on fb even thought she knows im playing :/

Quick Comments

x5_Bard:

lol you didnt actually ask a question, just made some weird statement

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

My response to Quote 1:

The reason for the pausing / AFK

I had hay fever... I sneezed all over keyboard and shit.... it was for valid reason

For Quote 2

The ling, festor is a much popular style in Korea and in general opposed to the ling,bane muta.

Although I believed I knew mafia's style really well... I was actually scared that game when I was constantly scanning. In case he did something crazy

Edit: I do alt-tab frequently also because my gf msgs me on fb even thought she knows im playing :/

Only if your girlfriend was AT LEAST a 9 would you bother to consistently alt tab that much through the majority of games you play in for a girl I'm assuming you've already had sex with. The only way for you to verify this would be half, if not full naked pictures of your girlfriend for us to discuss the legitimacy of her attractiveness and deem if she is worthy of this amount of alt tabbing.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	Best post in this thread.
	Stallion:	LOL hahahahahahahaha well played
	iM tgun:	Second.
	ROCCAT_Savior:
	Zealo:
	Dox:
	Trinion:
	Strafe:
	TABiggun:	Yes
	deL:
	fray`Alpha:

[TargA]

nirvana, how about you stop defending this **** and instead get him banned from all tournaments?

He has other trends in his play as well, everytime he is about to pull scvs he sends them to opponents main mineral line, and then has his camera there for a few seconds.

His micro is absolutely trash, his decision making is the sickest thing in the world and his macro is ******* bad. His multi tasking is ******* bad.

Its so goddamn obvious that i actually feel sad for your nirvana.

edit: and getting me infracted for this post will not do you good.

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	stop shit talking. if you don't have anything relevant to add then **** off.
	nirvAnA:	it is possible to communicate your thoughts civily, if often works better too. try it one day!
	Strafe:	You are a real man. With big muscles.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Sorry Pinder but my gf is probably a 11 and defiantly worth ******* tabbing out for.

BTW: Master Cup - I was not playing for the money.... I was playing for FUN. Getting this sort of response makes it not fun at all.

I don't see myself having a eSports career in response to Mafia and I do agree with Targa in the sense which I could be better in many aspects. But this would require investing endless amounts of time into the game which I am not prepared to do.

Quick Comments

ROCCAT_Savior:

scale is from 1-10 only, going to need pics now

[Rage]

i don't even respond to my wife's questions right next to my ear when I'm playing starcraft, I can't imagine what would make me alt tab to respond to a facebook message of all things.

that shit can wait for between games.

[nirvAnA]

To TargA: Its not about me mindlessly defending him. I just want fair treatment to be given, especially since this is a high profile case and if hes innocent, people are making a very very big mistake. I am not going to mindlessly follow the crowd, i will look at the evidence and make up my opinion from there, and i hope everyone does the same. I was the exact same way with fadeevets too and i did not know the guy at all, but initially insisted onr more evidence to be brought fourth first, and thank god he was caught hacking. as mentioned if he was found caught, he will be banned from everything, titles stripped, etc. don't understand how some can judge him as guilty when there isn't any concrete evidence.

My analysis of chobo vs Peleus (ladder game 15 mins before masters cup)

The only game I've seen so far is the Peleus game as mafia brought that to my attention. I did not see anything suspicious at all. After watching it i was sure he did NOT hack, at least not in that game. Then i saw the biggun post and was convinced something was up and he did hack, then i saw the UHF post which actually showed the correct log.

First 2 hellions - they scout/poke and do unexpected damage because peleus has no units. he doesn't rally his next 2 hellions even tho Peleus has virtually 0 defence and 4 hellions could have done way more damage. isnt aware of the roach all in and only starts bunker instantly after seeing the roaches spawn at Peleus's base.

11min + - Attacks zerg base. Doesn't know zerg has so many lings / banelings. Doesn't spread marines, or lift them with medivacs and his army gets facepalm rolled.

12min - Peleus moprhs 4-5 banelings and sends it up chobo's ramp. Chobo literally does not budge. Just before the last baneling dies, he stims all his marines and moves back, a very common panic reaction that means he just noticied what was happening, and way too late then optimal.

15min - viking goes straight to overlord at top right then rallied downwards. This is what all good terran players do? Where else can they go on that map? Apparently theres something he does differently in the other games and hence its suspect, for me it looked very natural so Rossi can u post more information on that?

18min - viking goes back up to that similar top right spot and with the same rally, only just a bit higher as he noticed there was an unscouted part of his map, something which map hackers do not have? the major thing here is THERE IS NO OVERLORD there. if hes metagaming hacking in a random ladder game he thinks no1 will ever upload he has got it down to a fine art. also why even bother with sensor towers?

Many times he goes to the zerg's third / fourth - thinking theres a base but there is nothing there.

The suspect things i would mention is he does not control watch tower often. his armies move very fearlessly like he always knows when its safe to move out and engage. apart from that in this replay i cant see anything else suspicious.

now strafe get off your ass and post the replays you have!

[cruxis]

Originally Posted by Rage

i don't even respond to my wife's questions right next to my ear when I'm playing starcraft, I can't imagine what would make me alt tab to respond to a facebook message of all things.

that shit can wait for between games.

It's called being whipped.

[SanG]

Originally Posted by TargA

nirvana, how about you stop defending this **** and instead get him banned from all tournaments?

He has other trends in his play as well, everytime he is about to pull scvs he sends them to opponents main mineral line, and then has his camera there for a few seconds.

His micro is absolutely trash, his decision making is the sickest thing in the world and his macro is ******* bad. His multi tasking is ******* bad.

Its so goddamn obvious that i actually feel sad for your nirvana.

edit: and getting me infracted for this post will not do you good.

EDIT: nevermind

[Loach]

I also atl-tab during games to talk to ppl on msn, fb chat, skype, stream chat. I don't see how it's that unbelievable...

[ToRSpookToR]

i respond to facebook all the time when playing it isnt that odd for me anyway

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	you know you are gonna lose the game you are in though so no point paying attention
	Strafe:	I actually want to add to Edge reputation for his rep