[Pandan]

This is such a weak judgement that it's practically encouraging people to cheat, because WORST case they miss one LAN. Every other case they do really well and get reputation and possibly even $$$...

Quick Comments

FvRsolis:

Missing a HOME LAN is a bigger deal <_<

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

I'm not at all defending him. I guess my understanding of the GGA cup was that ShinyA was using his account to gain access, I was under the impression SenSei had told him to tell admins and wasn't intentionally smurfing. Perhaps I bought into the story a bit, but that was my understanding.

Secondly, the length, lying and scale to which CHobo was smurfing is much greater (at least it seems as such atm). CHobo was confronted and lied about the issue for weeks. CHobo smurfed in numerous online tournaments, winning cash prizes and earning income from coaching students who believed the lies about his skill. It seems much more malicious and drawn out than 1-2 smurfing in tournament situations. But thats just how I feel about the situation.

As for the Broodwar stuff, that was a long time ago and the suggestion was that SenSei learnt his lesson.. Perhaps not, it seems.

In regards to getting him out to answer for himself, I don't represent SenSei, nor do I tell him what to do. Thats on him, not me. I'm not defending his actions, However the suggestion of life bans is over the top when CHobo, who continues to win trade and perhaps cheat on ladder has served his penalty for smurfing and is able to enter online tournaments now. SenSei's crime, I feel, is not as sever and the suggestion is life ban? - I personally don't agree and am simply offering up my thoughts. It's not at all my call on the situation, nor should my suggestions carry weight, I simply believe a life ban would be unjust - given previous penalties.

I don't remember winning any cash prizes apart from local tournaments. If your referring to Master Cup which seohyeon won playing my account, well he didn't receive money for winning either since he was playing on my account nor was I expecting to see any money from it anyway. I am carrying out my punishment for trying to cover for him and allowing it to happen in the first place.

I did earn money from coaching, and continued to do so after the fact because my students were happy with my ability to coach and convey concepts. Students didn't doubt my skill level, none felt cheated or wanted a refund. A few in particular proceeded to promote leagues appropriately, one even made it to GM.

Your right, I must be cheating in the minimal amount of time which I am playing at the moment. You could easily prove this by checking my stream as I stream every time I play.

Win trading on a server with less than 50 GMs is impossible to keep BP down otherwise. This is widely practiced by many players even ones who are on AU eSports teams. But sure it’s me that’s doing it, so it must mean the end of the world.

Thanks for letting me know I can now play in online tournaments. As far as I was aware I am still banned.

I don’t understand what your aim is to compare his situation to mine. Obviously it’s a case by case basis and the admins/tournament organisers evaluate the facts and determine a suitable punishment. The only reason I see is that you want to bring me up and go over the same old bullshit again as this isn’t the first time you’ve brought it up. I have left it alone in the past few threads thinking you would probably grow up at some point but **** I was wrong. Move on get over it!

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Actually, I was wrong - you got 1 year ban from 8th of July. So still banned.

[iM SundeR]

ChoBo, just because your 'students' didn't feel cheated that doesn't mean they weren't. Plenty of people who do the wrong thing are convinced otherwise, that doesn't make it any less wrong. You use this defense repeatedly and it doesn't hold up.

The FACTS are that the skill level you advertised yourself having is nowhere near your actual skill level, so it was untruthful. Unfortunately, you even went so far as to accept a SC2SEA Grandmaster's Manual coaching spot off the back of these lies. They SHOULD feel cheated, but however it's hard to force people to feel a certain way. You should at least feel guilty instead of trying to rationalise it through ignorance.

You being advertised alongside legitimate coaches who actually have the skill advertised inadvertently diverted business from those people. Perhaps if your 'students' had invested their real-life money with people like iaguz or Strafe and compared their knowledge of the game with yours, they would have felt cheated. If I was any of the other Terran coaches I would feel even worse towards you because you took potential money away from them.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

Chobo, noone gives a shit about you or your 'students' or your stream. You lied, cheated and deceived us and for 90% of the people on here that is enough for you to never have a second chance regardless of what your punishment was.

Quick Comments

iM MaFia:

^ This. lol

[mGGDaedalus]

I don't see how it's not relevant to compare a smurfing incident with your smurfing incident when deciding how to punish it. It's called precedent.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by CHoBo(kice)

I don’t understand what your aim is to compare his situation to mine. Obviously it’s a case by case basis and the admins/tournament organisers evaluate the facts and determine a suitable punishment. The only reason I see is that you want to bring me up and go over the same old bullshit again as this isn’t the first time you’ve brought it up.

The comparison is because there have been two significant smurfing occasions in top tier competitions in the SEA scene. SenSei's and your own. Why would we not compare SenSei's to yours?....

If your upset that its being brought up continually, then you should have thought about that before you lied and cheated. The fact remains, your case was the first - and you will forever set the precedent for SC2 smurfing in the SEA scene. If that upsets you, then you shouldn't have cheated. Consider it your criminal record. Even after years of good behaviour - your still going to have that record.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

are you saying theajor inident wasn't a major incident?

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by iM SundeR

ChoBo, just because your 'students' didn't feel cheated that doesn't mean they weren't. Plenty of people who do the wrong thing are convinced otherwise, that doesn't make it any less wrong. You use this defense repeatedly and it doesn't hold up.

The FACTS are that the skill level you advertised yourself having is nowhere near your actual skill level, so it was untruthful. Unfortunately, you even went so far as to accept a SC2SEA Grandmaster's Manual coaching spot off the back of these lies. They SHOULD feel cheated, but however it's hard to force people to feel a certain way. You should at least feel guilty instead of trying to rationalise it through ignorance.

You being advertised alongside legitimate coaches who actually have the skill advertised inadvertently diverted business from those people. Perhaps if your 'students' had invested their real-life money with people like iaguz or Strafe and compared their knowledge of the game with yours, they would have felt cheated. If I was any of the other Terran coaches I would feel even worse towards you because you took potential money away from them.

I would disagree with you on that, at the time easily could achieve GM with 70% or higher. Proceeded to achieve GM in following seasons and performed highly in local tournaments. More recently however yes I am below the par masters/low-gm level due to not playing often enough.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	Sick brag.
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	No need to be snippy mate.
	Zepph:	Even I could get GM on SEA if I played enough. You only need masters MMR for it.
	NOM:	cool story

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by CHoBo(kice)

I would disagree with you on that, at the time easily could achieve GM with 70% or higher. Proceeded to achieve GM in following seasons and performed highly in local tournaments. More recently however yes I am below the par masters/low-gm level due to not playing often enough.

You could never beat iaguz or Strafe (when he played) in a best of 5 without cheats/getting some Korean to play for you, so none of that means anything, don't justify this crap with your bullshit that is 100% unproven.

Quick Comments

Snx.FigJig:

you go gurl

[ToRSpookToR]

Originally Posted by CHoBo(kice)

Win trading on a server with less than 50 GMs is impossible to keep BP down otherwise. This is widely practiced by many players even ones who are on AU eSports teams. But sure it’s me that’s doing it, so it must mean the end of the world.

what mafia did this and who else? its hardy widely done at all..

Quick Comments

	syfSoundwave:	and Mafia did it in like...three games?
	SanG:	I give out wins when people ask;, tigerspr gave me wins when he was lowering his mmr to play offrace

[Sedz]

Yeah this is quite sick. Abusing the trust of the community and ruining the credibility not once, but multiple times.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	reminding me of Chobo...
	ROOTPetraeus:	lol

[aLtShortizz]

I dont get it.

So Sensei asked someone to smurf for him in an Online Qualifier that he would have to pay to enter once qualified and eventually lose?(At the main event)

PS: Just ignore that chobo guy, u guys are giving him too mcuh attention.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by CHoBo(kice)

I would disagree with you on that, at the time easily could achieve GM with 70% or higher. Proceeded to achieve GM in following seasons and performed highly in local tournaments. More recently however yes I am below the par masters/low-gm level due to not playing often enough.

At that time you would have struggled to hit GM on SEA. If you want to continue to lie and brag, I won't hesitate in removing you right here and now. You can defend yourself if you wish, but you sure as hell can't say that your coaching was sufficient -- people were expecting coaching from someone who was able to compete with the best in the SEA region. You would struggle to take a game off me in a bo100, and I sure as hell am not the best in SEA.

Justify it however you want to yourself, but the fact is you lied, you deceived and you took money which you didn't deserve, nor will you ever deserve it. Even if they are "happy" with your coaching, you should never have been given that opportunity. You shouldn't be allowed back into the scene, and you're damn lucky Nirvana is such a forgiving person.

However, let's stop getting off topic -- even with comparisons to Chobos issue, this is completely centered around Sensei. He has constantly said he rarely plays anymore -- yet, now he appears to play in the ACL OR1 and then get's a friend to play in OR2, smurfing on his account. He's been banned for cheating before and has had NUMEROUS un-publicized issues in SC2. He shouldn't be allowed another chance.

Quick Comments

	SanG:	ur tvz and supporting skills are the best in SEA :3
	TAEdgE:	do you rage much in league

[RuineD]

despite what ACL decides, everyone else is capable of barring sensei from entering their tournaments. we don't need ACL to ban him for life, because we can do it already.

Quick Comments

Pandan:

Vigilante justice is best justice

[Meatex]

Plus from what I understand he is quite low level and if he does try to qualify after ban has lapsed everyone will be watching him like a hawk so the damage done this time will be easily avoided.
He wins a set I have no doubt half the community will be scrutinizing replays and he is likely to be dq-ed at even the slightest suss thing given his history

Quick Comments

aLtShortizz:

He used to be very good actually, just went inactive and became rusty i think.

[prOxi.FighT]

What a scumbag. This guy hacked in brood war as well and I don't even remember him being apologetic about it at all. And to top it all off he has the gayest smug attitude I have ever seen. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a sociopath. Off with his head I say.

Quick Comments

Pandan:

He also kinda looks like a shady drug dealer - should ban him on those grounds alone, imo.

[FvRsolis]

Wow, prOxi.FighT, there is no need to degrade the argument into logical fallacies.

Honestly, I'm not sure what I think or how I feel about this. Really torn because I am a personal friend of Sensei and I do think he is a quality player, and the last thing we need is to get rid of quality players... But nor should we tolerate smurfing and/or cheating. I would propose a ban until LotV and any online SEA competitions at the event's discretion until LotV. A year isn't long enough, but a lifelong ban isn't okay either. We are a community and we should have that at the forefront of our minds when making a decision like this... and what has been proposed is very, very harsh.

IMO the punishment doesn't fit the crime, he didn't claim any money and if he had qualified for ACL Brisbane then there was no way he could get out of smurfing at the event. He has been an active, "well behaved" member of the SEA community for 2 years and yes he has broodwar marks against his name, but this isn't the same incident.

tl;dr

My opinion:

- Ban until LotV from SC2SEA events (which should be standard for any cheating infringements from Hots drop)
- Ban from ACL for X amount of time (at ACL discretion)
- Ban from online events at organiser's discretion (within reason).
- No restriction on entering local LAN events

[Rockstar]

Wow... I left this community a long time ago specifically because blatant cheaters who denied denied denied and then confessed were given a second chance... My own guild of the time didn't boot one of them out. Now I come back here to get a measly piece of information and what do I see? Another failure of this community to stand up for what is right and lay down the justice which is well deserved.

Grow a sack, do the right thing.