[Cyanide]

Seems pretty balanced overall. But don't understand the blink upgrade time increase.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Rax change: makes 0 sense. Ta blizz.

Hellion change: I'm ok with this. I like marine/tank in TvT and I hope this nerf steers it back in that direction. Currently my TvT seems more of a contest on who can slip a drop into the other guys base first then the positional fun of marine/tank. I didn't care for blue flames in TvP unless I was messing around and wanted all of Lights probes to burn so w/e, and they still kill lings in 2 shots so they're main role in TvZ is there. An undefended drone line is still going to ******* hurt for Zerg even with 50% more shots required. So yea, I'm ok with this one.

Seeker missile: There are a few things I'm a bit grumble-y about this one. First, SM's are hard to deploy in a game due to price and them jostling with tanks and nukes for the role of WMD. Second, even with the energy upgrade it takes 50 energy for it to come online. A tank is a tank once "FUELED UP, READY TO GO!". Third, the only things it outran before were things that typically had loads of hp and could just soak it up (bc's, thors, broodlords, motherships, maybe carriers). Third, you still cannot use it vs protoss (feedback) and it's pointless against Zerg (tanks do it better vs ground and mutas can easily outrun it), so maybe in TvT it has any application? I dunno. I'm really skeptical about the Seeker missile although I am ready to be convinced if Terrans can show consistent successful application of it.

VISION THINGY:

The way I'm interpreting this is it nerfs PvP's warp up on the ramp when you're trying to defend a 4gate. Sounds totally fair. You can still get to the top of a ramp and look around and see everything with a zergling or w/e because you're at the top of the ramp so you have all your vision. And generally I'm not trying to get up ramps unless I have a flying unit with me (usually) so I think I'm ok here. I think?

ZERG:

Ultras: Broods still generally the better choice in ZvT as a unit. More uses, works better with infestors, demands specific counters and they completely negate tanks whereas ultras don't make 33% of your opponent's army value almost entirely worthless. BUT what I do see possible is the b-lord into ultra switch after you've banked up a ton of money. Run all your broodlords in, lose it all and make 200/200 ultra/ling to smash the softened up terran army. But the only time this works is in a really poor game state for the terran (ie, 200/200 and floating) so I guess it just exemplifies that aspect of TvZ

Fungal: I was happy until I did some math and realized that it takes 8 seconds instead of 6 for my marines to die. Thorzain pointed out that it means it takes an extra fungal to kill vikings which I suppose is kind of nice but fungal growth is still functionally the same ability; ie, marine annihilator.
I guess this is mostly for ZvP which makes sense since as I understand it Protoss are having a ton of trouble with this matchup.

PROTOSS

Immortal range 6: Saw this one coming tbh. Immortal kinda sucks, needs buff to remain relevant. What I'm concerned are PvT aggresive 3 gate robo immortal timings. They used to be kinda good and if you've got enough ff's to negate bunkers then they can be insane (thank christ relatively rare).

Blink timing: So yay, one PvT opening gets pretty much removed to be replaced with two more.

Warp Prism: Someone is going to break this and I'm going to be upset about it! I always thought that the tradeoff to the warp prism being shit was this wonderful combination of units that protoss could get at 200/200 that were virtually unstoppable by terran. Now they also get to drop stuff. Fortunately what they can drop isn't too scary (templar yes but very expensive/risky for them to do it but I'm still kinda grumble-y about this one too).

Quick Comments

	iM tgun:	Pretty good writeup.
	Nemo:	+1

[Stallion]

i like the ptr notes dropship buff immortal buff was unneeded but il take it blink research time i can dig ^^ hunter seeker missle is awesome fully looking forward to that zerg buff yet infestor tweak awesome bout time blizzard patched the game well

[Estancia]

They fixed the drone AI, now its time to nerf their hp regen rate.

Anyone got any idea where the hell the mothership accleration buff came from?? From what I remember no one actually seemed to care about them whether they were buffed or nerfed (after the archon toilet nerf)

[Starcraftmazter]

If Blizzard doesn't want terran to win games, may as well just remove it as a race.

[xGKingdelete]

i like these changes, especially the mothership one. haven't seen one of them in ages


"Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes."

does this mean everyone's going to have around 100 apm now?

[cure]

Mmmm, loving the changes !

[ToRPandarine]

yay! no more 2 shotting everything! boo! for not being able to 2 shot things! lol

other than that, I'm not sure how does the +5 build time affects us terrans but I do know it'll add +5 to everything...doesn't that make us a little bit suspectible to certain builds? *cough*unscouted 6 pool*cough*

(i know i know, 6 pool easy defend. hv u ever tried to defend one whn there's a hole in ur wall or failed to scout it?)

regarding the protoss: not so much of an issue tho, the additional shields on the warp prism worries me...

regarding the zerg: w00t! infestors slightly nerfed (prefer to see infested terrans energy cost go up but meh, ill take what's given) other than that, not so much of an issue other than the fact you can have ULTRAS in your base...lol..

[Dox]

Originally Posted by cruxis

Ok, just went through the thread, and there has been no discussion on the contaminate nerf.

What would bring about this nerf?

I think it has something to do with Zerg having the cheapest, fastest mobile detection unit in the game now (don't factor in the inital overlord cost because you're always guaranteed to be making them anyway).

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

so maybe in TvT it has any application? I dunno. I'm really skeptical about the Seeker missile although I am ready to be convinced if Terrans can show consistent successful application of it.

This makes it so Vikings can no longer outrun Seeker Missiles. I'm guessing the objective here is to provide an avenue for air dominance to be re-gained in mirror match-ups, since once you've got it, it's very hard to lose it (unless you fly into a bunch of Thors or something.)

SlayerS are gonna bring the Seeker Missile into conventional play, you just watch.


Also noticed some comments in chat about Guardian Shield, and people saying, "I thought it was only supposed to block projectiles?"
That's actually the description of Point Defense Drone. :P

[Eldrid]

i really like the ultra buff. nothing worse than being ahead but not being able to break a mech line and throwing away your army, remaxing instantly on 3/5 ultra, to die before they hatch ... -_- (or lose half your base and have them slowly come into your main from all your different hatches - lame!). Smart by blizz.

[EveMassacrisM]

Took long enough for Blizzard to realize an unit that costs only minerals being able to 2shot multiple workers is retarded.

Other changes are pretty meh.

[mGMUSE]

don't like the changes tbh, agree with what iaguz has posted

[Snod]

They will most likely be refined more on the PTR, if it turns out that Barracks build increase is too much; they will change it.

If hellions now super suck, they will change it.

However I for one love the changes for Immortals and Warp Prisms... Immortal drop with warped in Zealots anyone?

[ETL.Santi]

Hopefully the delay for marines and buff for inmortals dont come into the game.

[Snod]

Originally Posted by Santi

Hopefully the delay for marines and buff for inmortals dont come into the game.

What? Immortals actually need the +1 range buff. And the barracks timing change will be barely noticable unless you are going for a early game rush. 5 game second turns into 3 IRL seconds... unless you are doing something so cheesy that you will lose because your opponent had 3 extra seconds... it wont matter.

[souljah]

Totally loving this comment on TeamLiquid...

"How is the no gas FE into 3 other naked rax going to hold against 3 gate robo? "

"I don't see many terrans hold that kind of pressure, especially with the immortal range buff. That is what worries me the most with the barracks nerf, the timings are already as close at it is."

They neglect the fact that it is a fast expand against a semi-allin =.= are terrans supposed to hold a FE against all kinds of all-ins without difficulty? 0o

[Digby]

I for one, believe that the rax "nerf" will not be included in the final release of the patch, it doesn't really make any sense, 12 rax 15 orbital will have scv production halted for 5 secs, the festor nerf is awesome, the hellion nerf... was neccessary to a degree, the toss buffs will probably mean more creative plays by protoss in pvp as well as other match ups, with the unused units, mships warp prisms being buffed, overall very nice

[Halstrom]

Just my thoughts....

Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.
Not sure what to make of this yet. It will hurt P and Z the most I think, as there are windows where they only have ramp scouting to scout. This change will do a couple of things I think. It will force units further up the ramp to get good vision, whereas now there is sometimes a sweetspot where the scout can get vision but is out of a Marines range for example. Second, it will likely prevent a ramp scout from seeing buildings behind the wall in. Not sure how it will affect attacks on wall ins though. This one is a wait and see though.


PROTOSS

Immortal
Attack range increased from 5 to 6.
Really needed to make this unit relevant. Interestingly Blizz designed the Immortal with the intent of making it a front row tanking unit. Looks like they have abandoned that.


Mothership
Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
Meh. Might save it in some rare situations. Otherwise meh.

The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.
Again meh. Nice to alleviate lag, but not really game impacting.

Stalker
Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.
Interesting. Kills the blink stalker timing push a little and might make a strat shift harder for P. Also makes P a little less harrassy in early game against Z, and might make Roach play a little more popular early. Another wait and see here


Warp Prism
Shields increased from 40 to 100.
Wow....big change. Gotta say I've been expecting this. A definite needed change to make this unit viable widely. PvP and PvZ will likely see significant drop play now IMHO. T will be forced to be wary of it too, but turrets and vikings should deter a little (though vikings later in numbers). For some context, it will now take a single Viking 20 seconds to kill a Prism, or 4 Vikings 5 seconds. Might make way for a "Korean 4 gate robo", build a robo for the Prism, then just produce out of 4 gates. Within a second or two of deplying the Prism you could have 8 zealots on the ground (4 from the drop and 4 warp-ins). Then reinforce in waves of 4. Not as quick, but much more deadly.

TERRAN

Barracks
Build time increased from 60 to 65.
Not sure about this one. I don't think it kills a marine rush. I think it just makes it more all in. T might be able to get an early supply and ealier Rax/s for the same effect, but would suffer more of an eco hit. It will screw with the standard T opening as it is now though, and 5 seconds isn't enough time to sneak in another SCV. Not sure what else this really achieves aside from annoying Terran plays TBH.

Hellion
Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.
I think Blind Betty saw this one coming from a mile away. As a T I'm dissappointed, but conceed that it was needed. Having said that, I'm not sure what this changes (unless I'm missing something, which is entirly possible). BF Hellions will still do 19 damage a hit to workers, so 3 will still 1 shot a worker right? Sure, the damage reduction will mean less overall collatoral damage, but BF hellion drops will still work.

Raven
Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
Really?!? This should make mainstream T rush to Seekers now!!! /endSarcasm

ZERG

Infestor
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).
Booyaa......Blizz are on the money with this one. Still, would like to have seen FG reduced to just leave marines in the deep red and not kill them outrite. Even psi-storms give T the chance to save units. I wonder how this will affect Z vs. mass blink stalker though?


Overseer
Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is a decent change. IMHO this is a 50% reduction in cost (minerals are almost a non-factor at the stage of the game at which Z can mass overseers). Twice the fast scouting. Twice the detection. Twice the changlings. Twice the contaminate!!!

Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.
My guess is that this is an attempt to prevent Z from getting mass overseer's and rolling in to contaminate a whole base at once. I can't really see what else this acheives, but then again my understanding of Zerg is pretty ordinary


Ultralisk
Build time decreased from 70 to 55.
Not sure what to make of this really. As already pointed out, Broodlords are a better choice. It's not like there is a concept of an Ultra rush either. They are a nasty follow up to Mutaling, but if a Z gets enough bases to contantly build Ultra's even at 70sec whoever he is playing is in trouble anyway. NFI here really......guess it's a wiat and see.

[Insidious]

Where is the zealot "launch fireball" buff.... :| for shame blizard

[Dox]

Originally Posted by Digby

I for one, believe that the rax "nerf" will not be included in the final release of the patch, it doesn't really make any sense, 12 rax 15 orbital will have scv production halted for 5 secs, the festor nerf is awesome, the hellion nerf... was neccessary to a degree, the toss buffs will probably mean more creative plays by protoss in pvp as well as other match ups, with the unused units, mships warp prisms being buffed, overall very nice

Just FYI - 16OC has been very popular for several months now. There are a lot of top players who have been doing this every game, since you can actually squeeze 7 seconds of SCV production out before the Barracks completes. So this means you can actually smoothly get the 16th SCV out rather than leaving your CC idle for a while.