[mGGNemesis]

btw I just read properly. No, Diamond on NA is comparable to Diamond on SEA. The arguments usually for whether Diamonds on KR to be comparable to that from NA and SEA.

[sR.Kumo]

Originally Posted by MrLando

It's funny how on sc2sea people say SEA server is a joke (I agree) yet still shun the players who play at a diamond level regularly on SEA from playing tournaments. Seems hypocritical.

I don't quite get what you mean by this - High SEA Diamonds can still be Eu/NA Diamonds, and they are in most cases - disregarding the retarded league placement this past season, of course. When are SEA Diamonds denied entrance to diamond tournaments? I've not seen that happening :/

Originally Posted by MrLando

Just do this guys:
If a SEA server rank is to be ignored (Especially season 1 and 2) just ask for another servers rank this season and have a certain amount of games that has to be played for the current season on that account.

Still makes it really unfair for lower league players.
How about Gold level players who only ladder on SEA?
I honestly think that the same ideology as the BSG tournaments should be used.
If your current SEA rank is G, P, or D, then you should be allowed to play - however, for ex masters there will be some restrictions, same as there are on the BSG for ex-plats. If they were ex plats on early-mid WoL, but have been BSG level for a long while now, they're counter BSG level :/ if they're very recent plats, they're not counted BSG and not allowed in. If you've ever been HIGHER than GPD on any OTHER server, you shouldn't be allowed to play. I'm not saying those should be the rules, but if I could suggest anything, that's what I'd find fair. Of course, there are still players in the BSG who smurf, but there are those everywhere and the admins do try to crack down on those to their full ability :/

[adamhlt]

I just want to make clear that I am not arguing that people should be disqualified for being diamond on other ladders. I agree with others here that diamond SEA should make you eligible.

I am arguing that the current 2 seasons back plus current season is too restrictive, and fails to take into account aspects that were particular to previous seasons but not the current. Even if a player kept the same skill level from HotS season 1 up until now, that doesn't make them the same league as what they were at the start.

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

◦Masters for at most two season.
◦Not achieved Masters for 2 seasons before current season despite active laddering (ie. 2013 Season 3 and 2013 Season 4).

This part of the rules recognizes this dilemma and allows the re start of a season to give these players the chance to get back into playing GPD if they really do not get promoted back to masters.

The problem with the second rule is that if you were placed into masters back when HotS was newer, with a higher % of masters players, and a much shorter season, you are disqualified from this tournament. Given the same skill level, what qualified you before as masters now would qualify you as diamond. As this is a GPD tournament, you would be included if it wasn't for this rule.
So, for my personal case (for example), I achieved Masters back in May. Since then, I have been allocated to both Diamond and Platinum. Even if I was the same skill level as I was at in May, I would likely still be getting Diamond now under the current system.

This means that the rules systematically denies players such as myself from playing, yet allowing stronger or equal players to play. Personally, I would like to see it at least stripped back to those who have not achieved masters on the current season or previous season, so long as there was active laddering.

The first rule doesn't affect me personally, but I can imagine cases when this is overly restrictive also. As the rule applies to all seasons, an early SC2 WoL master x2 will be ineligible, even if they had achieved platinum every season after that.

If the "spirit" of this tournament is really GPD, it doesn't need to dwell so much in the past.
I don't believe you should be asked to review each player, but simply adjust the rule of no masters 2 seasons back to no masters 1 season back. That would be more relevant to the current state of SEA SC2.

[adamhlt]

Originally Posted by AxS.Kumo

When are SEA Diamonds denied entrance to diamond tournaments? I've not seen that happening :/

That is arguably what is happening for this tournament, under the current rules.

I get that the rules may not always work for every specific case, but in their current state they seem to be both contradictory in terms of players allowed and not within the spirit, in my opinion, of GPD when consistent Diamonds on SEA cannot play.

[mGGNemesis]

As I said before, this season is ending. The cycle of 2 seasons as a gap was also timed when bliz changed the rules for promotion (and demotion).

The next season is starting soon, and the 2 seasons cycle would be moved downwards (or upwards depending on how u look at it).

The admins have to consider both spectrums. There are many other players who have never achieved masters before. The rules do not say that masters can never ever play again which was part of the rules before panda took over.

Would u rather the earlier rules where masters can (almost) never play in a GPD (ex masters)?

So this consideration is already in the new rules/guidelines so that these players who were ex masters but diamonds even though legitly laddering to enter back into being able to play in a GPD.

It might be strict but it is necessary.

[adamhlt]

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

Would u rather the earlier rules where masters can (almost) never play in a GPD (ex masters)?

Well obviously not, as this would be the exact opposite of the points I'm trying to make.

It's nice to see this kind of issue looked into before, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement on the rules, especially for a platform as dynamic as the SC2 SEA scene.
EDIT: After looking back, the previous rules were equal or less restrictive than the current ones. So if you were criticising the old rules, those criticisms should apply to the current ones also.

Originally Posted by mGGNemesis

It might be strict but it is necessary.

This isn't about the rules being too strict so much as it is about the rules being inconsistent in who is allowed to enter and who isn't when considering GPD skill level.


As for the season is ending, that's great and all, but it doesn't help for those of us who have already missed one GPD Open and will now miss another. It will also not help those in future with similar issues.

Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic that you guys are organising this and running a tournament on SC2 SEA. This is just my personal feedback.

[iRLpuku]

blizz should just introduce an ELO rating. or some form of rating to eliminate this problem. Ex-GM like myself losing to diamonds in SEA but cant take part in GPD... T.T lol

Quick Comments

mGGNemesis:

:/

[Elusory]

In the first place, such tournaments are held for a single main reason: to improve the skill level of the GPDs. Also, to give them motivation to train hard and reach masters so they don't have to participate in such tournaments anymore. By having reached masters before, I don't really care if the MMR was skewed or not, but it shows that you have at least the determination to reach masters. Some people don't even hit Diamond when the bunch of new people came. Rules are rules, it's there for people to obey and not to criticize. You just have to wait for the next season to participate in this event, which is in 2 weeks time, should be done when the next GPD comes. I really do feel that a two season's grace is a good enough time.

Like said before, the point of GPD opens isn't for people to gain fame and glory while, to quote what Wally said in SC2SEA chat before, he's sitting at the high chair of masters looking at our banters. People really need to understand that it's totally alright to not be allowed to participate in restricted league tournaments. What I had in mind for GPDL is to reduce restrictions (I DISCOURAGED ex-masters, not BANNED them), to allow as many people to join in the fun. I even allowed the controversial Totodile to play. Yet at the same time, I made my point clear that this is to allow people who recently didn't have enough motivation to train to train once again. The prize for this tournament is 2 hours of coaching, something that people who have not hit masters before need. We want to close the disparity of the skill gap, not widen it.

Different restricted league tournaments have different rules because the admins have different thinking of how they wanna limit the ex-good players to play. So, for future GPD open's sake, do not bring in GPDL rules into the arguments. Hope I didn't sound very offensive or anything, but that's just on my mind right now.

[NairX.Totodile]

K my bad soz, was in bad mood

EDIT:mabad

Quick Comments

	Elusory:	Do you realise you're the only one bitching around here? The MTi guys are being very civil here.
	MrLando:	Uhoh.

[mGGNemesis]

It's good to give feedback and to hear them but at the end, let the admins decide. Just remember they have to be fair to all players in this GPD tournament or any other tournament that isn't open league.

I know the ex masters now diamond or even plat who might not had been able to get masters again by laddering legitly are frustrated but this is one of the sandwich grey areas that is tricky to deal with in the first place.

At the end of the day, the admins make the final decision and if these players just cannot take part in a certain GPD tournament, then that's that. Another organiser might have 'wider' rules cos the goals are different. Clanwars set different guidelines as well and it even differs sometimes between which clans we play vs. But what the admins for this tournament finally decides, it's something to respect them by and just follow. No one wants to be unreasonably unfair for no good reason.

[ToRsupapower]

sigh.... unless you've got master mmr on korea, e.g. rank 1 diamond kr vsing masters every one out of two games i think you should be allowed to play...

[adamhlt]

Originally Posted by ToRElusory

Rules are rules, it's there for people to obey and not to criticize.

I'm not simply criticizing the rules or attempting to gain an exception to the rules, I am just trying to outline what I see as some inconsistency of the rules in hope that it is considered for the future. We don't have a lot of players here on SEA.

Players who managed Masters at one point, but have struggled since, could be required to wait 6 months+ to relevantly participate in one of the very few SEA tournaments, which is discouraging to say the least.

We aren't all always improving - especially as SC2 begins to take more of a backseat, or the meta-game changes to something we're not as familiar with. There are a multitude of reasons as to why skill can drop.

Anyway, thanks, and I appreciate the supplementary role of the GPDL.

[syfNaMeK]

Oh no I just realised that this starts at 6 pm! Sadly i cant play in this now since my GPDL match is scheduled to be played then. I will be here for the next one though

[Elusory]

Originally Posted by NaMeK

Oh no I just realised that this starts at 6 pm! Sadly i cant play in this now since my GPDL match is scheduled to be played then. I will be here for the next one though

You can still play in this while waiting for your opponent to show up in GPDL. He's offline at the moment anyway Or, you can ask your opponent to GPD to wait for a while to play your match in GPDL.

[syfNaMeK]

Originally Posted by ToRElusory

You can still play in this while waiting for your opponent to show up in GPDL. He's offline at the moment anyway Or, you can ask your opponent to GPD to wait for a while to play your match in GPDL.

hmmmm yeah ill do that then haha. If i dont make it to my game i understand if the player doesnt wish to wait though

[ToRLuneth]

Have to pull out to night unfortunately, going out to dinner for my brothers birthday.
Best of luck to those competing

[adamhlt]

Congratulations missAsuzy