[yongming]

Originally Posted by Satiini

I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd if you guys keep petting guys like troy in the head after he lies repeatedly to people....

stay classy

[RuineD]

make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Originally Posted by Av.RuineD

make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.

I agree that turning this into a witch hunt against troy is the wrong way to go about things. And yes I can only assume James is the donator Troy has told to me about (randomly went AWOL afaik)

Either way, if you permit me to hijack this, on a similar vein nonetheless, people still haven't been paid for multiple pX weekly wins. It doesn't matter "how good your intentions are" or "how young you are".

As a tournament organizer you have a responsibility to pay what you publicly offer. Troy deserves to be called out on this and people need to recognize it is unacceptable. If you are lagging behind in payments you don't start up more events and then when asked to pay up for previous tournaments tell people you don't have the money. It just comes across as a lack of organization and inexperience. You should ensure all your affairs are in order before proceeding with new investments or endeavors.

Yes Troy is quite young so sure, I accept he is new to all this, but it isn't an excuse in its own right.

So long as he acknowledges his mistakes, learns from them, and pays up what he owes I'll be happy.

Quick Comments

	MezjE:	Why do you think your opinion is wanted? Snx and Myth are going well lmao.
	TCPLemminks:	^ HOW DO I REACH THESE KIDSSSSSSSSSS

[RuineD]

"I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd"

wow you're really mature. your response to me asking for his side of the story is to trash the australian scene because of one bad experience. if you're so professional you'd at least try to wait until this is resolved before shit canning something you literally have no relationship to.

[Satiini]

You should have read it till the end, they will only see it like this if you pet people who scam on the head, I would say its very understandable. And I've heard his side of the story already, he had no interest in trying to even resolve it, just decided not to pay it. That is all I need to know about a person so I can start "shit canning" people like you put it. In EU and NA scene scammers are outcasts whom people spit on.

[Eddie]

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

Quick Comments

	NDG.Stitch:	I love you Eddie
	Lokth:	Pretty sure Im still waiting on $10 from a GPD win eddy :P not that I care <3
	Reere:	+1
	VorteX:	=1

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

I cut of the random parts where im just asking if his around, and also random talk about other things cups / what we were going to play in the future and what he wanted me to play and so on, because I was still planning to remain in the team because I thought he was trustworthy.

[pX_kiss]

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

Quick Comments

	syfPhoenix:	Who are you? o.O
	SLCN.Wally:	who the ****?!?!?! when did troy become not head of px
	syfRize:	Burn the witch!

[VB_Blake]

Originally Posted by pX_kiss

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

I have been mildly out of touch with everything pX lately, but I am 90% sure this guy is not legit.

As for the thread; Throughout my time in pX I have never really received anything as a player, no payment or gear or jersey's, but I always found that acceptable because as a team it was our collective duty to perform in order to attract sponsors in order to receive goodies from sponsors. Troy admirably tried to make things happen, but often to no avail. I feel this should reflect on the situation, as it shows Troy as simply a guy who wants things to be better for the people he is responsible for. I have no reason to doubt he had pure intentions about this and merely saw a way to improve the pX name. A way that was attractive enough to make him neglect securing a reliable source of income. The 'contract' that was made was not official, but regardless I think a quasi-contract existed and its because of this degree Troy should bare responsibility for this situation, not James (which it appears he has).

That said, he should only bare blame for an honest mistake by relying on someone who was not reliable, and for promising things he was not sure could be delivered. Not as a scammer or someone who had ulterior motives to his actions. Hopefully Troy can reflect on what happened here and try to avoid similar mistakes.

Edit: pXKiss is James, manager of the CoD division and apparently manager of the entire team now.

Quick Comments

SLCN.CautioN:

+1

[SLCN.Kez]

Can also attest that troy is pretty legit from what I've personally seen. He was fantastic at ACL Melbourne running around organizing things, and I lost my shit when I found out he was only 15, as he acted much more professional and mature than that. It appears he has a few issues with this james fellow, and also about managing expectations from players. As often players won't mind if it takes you a few weeks to pay, as long as you communicate to them exactly when you will have the money by and follow it up.

Please don't turn this into a witch hunt and smear Troy's name with little evidence and a few skype logs. He has begun doing really great things in the community and would be a shame to have him quit because he thinks people don't appreciate what he is doing, or feels that people don't want him around anymore.

If more dodgy things turn up or occur then perhaps it's time to re-asses the situation by for now errybody just chill out. And by everyone I mean satiini.

[RuineD]

satiini, you're basically letting everyone here see you as a self-entitled prick. if you want anyone to think of your post with any sense of respect or understanding i suggest u mature up.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.ARze:	+1
	Lokth:	Apparenty not being payed is considered 'self entitlled', you dont mind working for me for free then?

[Seffy]

Originally Posted by Av.RuineD

satiini, you're basically letting everyone here see you as a self-entitled prick. if you want anyone to think of your post with any sense of respect or understanding i suggest u mature up.

Quick Comments

syfChase:

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif looping version pls

[SLCN.Kez]

You know shit is getting real when ruined is telling someone to act more mature.

(ILY ruined stay mirin)

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	ez
	ToRPandarine:	#1 post all year imo
	SLCN.ARze:	hahaha

[mGGAequitas]

calm down


teehee I'm participating in drama

[Sc2Clare]

lol... hilarious~~~~ would read it again yo~~

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

lol

[SLCN.Wally]

No one is against you satiini, people just want you to calm down because we know you're angry but you have to realise going off the Skype logs most people here aren't going to immediately side with you. also calling someone a scammer is quite a bold term as I doubt troy makes any money from not paying you. No one doesn't want you to get paid, but instead of going off the deep end at them, you have to realise their point of view.

Quick Comments

RuineD:

im against him.

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Wally

No one is against you satiini, people just want you to calm down because we know you're angry but you have to realise going off the Skype logs most people here aren't going to immediately side with you. also calling someone a scammer is quite a bold term as I doubt troy makes any money from not paying you. No one doesn't want you to get paid, but instead of going off the deep end at them, you have to realise their point of view.

May I also add, as a community person (sortaish), SEA server is the SEA, a few other Asian countries and the Oceanic region smashed into one server. We're pretty small. Even smaller when you think about where everyone actually goes to play (NA or KR mostly). And we're a pretty close knit community.

And by extension, the community here at sc2sea is just as close knit. Calling a member who has done quite a bit for the community is big. It's even bigger if its out of the blue. Even bigger if your very first post is that.

So, yea of course we'll not side with you at first. But that doesn't mean we're against you. We listen, we think about it (mostly...sometimes we just act without thinking!) and then we'll decide what to do.

And it helps not to be snarky or call us a pile of turds. Not the best of ways to start your PR.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

This is... embarrassing for everyone involved.

Do some research before you expect a salary from a team.

Wow.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Wally:	this too
	LordByrnsy:	+1

[Infected]

Quick Comments

	mGGSlayer:	LOL
	Seffy:	GOLD

[MezjE]

At least you got a reply each day, meanwhile at AV.

Anyway this was to be expected, look at Rogue's comment, James sounds like an idiot.