[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

So, for example, you want to play a TvT. You want to practice build A. That person will have to know how:
A) Build A works;
B) Have Build A1, A2, A3 etc.
C) Know how those builds unfold into late or end game
D) Mechanically execute those builds on your level of play.

Damn that's asking a lot! :O This is only available in a pro setting, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Unstable.

I recommend playing by time or schedule. Like what so:

A) Play 2 hrs every day of the week for 5 days, using the same build (impt).
B) Take 1-2 hrs categorising play into race divisions and analysing that specific build against race match ups and what you can work on when going up against different builds.
C) Refine build.
D) Play again until comfortable.

This takes forever. But you will be very good at one build. For example, I always 1raxFE. Now, after a year of SC2, I know two branches of 1raxFE really well - 1raxFE into marine/tank and 1raxFE into marauder/ghost/viking. I know what to do for all-ins rushes, late game, research timings, attack timings, expansion timings etc. little things like that. So while I might be boring, I thoroughly understand my build and what to transition to in late game. I must've played 100 games with 1raxFE, and I still have problems with Protoss. It takes a while if you want to improve alone.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by iaguz

It's true that a dedicated team of practice partners who all play together and develop strategies and all that is effective.

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!




While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

The thing is, you need a very good partner for this, because if you get an inferior partner, then your timings will be all wrong . Am I right to assume this?

[iM yang]

Laddering will be sufficient practice for anybody below masters excluding specific situations which you want to practice, cheese defense being one of those situations.

[Melite]

Spamming ladder games and practice games with partners are the two ways I go.

[crAzerk]

It's mostly ladder, I play random so I learn every game! For example, after losing to a Protoss build when I got Zerg, I will try out that build when I get P against Z. Pretty fun system I have going

[NDG.Stitch]

Love this thread. I've been looking for something like this for a while. I think for me, sometimes I just mass ladder for fun because it gives me a sense of achievement when I keep winning, whereas, I might not spend that much time on practicing my technique. But I think as Unstable said, honestly if you have a team, you should utilize it more. There's no point in raping ladder if you can't prove yourself worthy in tournaments. A good player with well-trained mechanics should have no problem with ladder.

[Muldeh]

How do you get around the issue of knowing what your practice partner is going to do.. and therefore having the upper hand?

[MazEi]

Well think of it as if its a practice match, why play to win(unless you're trying to see whether a certain build is win-able). Whenever I play against my friends I'd look to try and improve some aspect in mechanics or try to smooth out a build. Basically try to not think of what he is doing and think what you want to do to improve.

[inFeZa]

If you REALLY Want to improve - BW Style you sit down with a friend play match after match with each other, and go over the replays together.

or..

SPAM LADDER GAMES.

[sRFullstop]

I identify my weakest matchup, and just find people who play that race to play with me.

[lolwut]

I generally ladder and watch pro replays of the matchups i have trouble with.

[syfMiley]

I talk serious strategy with my homie g's yo.

Quick Comments

toneg:

I was promised a gay boner

[Neoneoz]

It'll be really good if you know what are you weak at , then check your replays and spam ladder games after you corrected your mistake

[TAEdgE]

I've personally always had a ladder anxiety (at least on my main account on SEA for example) and i have always noted that practicing on ladder, particularly at certain times on SEA and on NA is not beneficial for learning, it is only beneficial for possibly seeing a few holes in your build (cheese) or mechanical practice (new hotkeys, getting macro/injects up, focusing on creep spread).

Right now i have started practicing again, and i am someone who procrastinates alot because if my mind is not in something, i do not perform near my best or improve near the level i could if my mind was there.

My routine is basically about 4 hours a day of playing, 5 max, 2 minimum. I play with a set list of practice partners, who are likely to rape me and show me big and small holes in my builds, style and overall mechanical play (from replays). I will take those games (which help alot) and ladder (normally ladder if i don't have anyone to own me or teach me). Laddering is on korea by the way, sometimes NA or SEA to warm up mechanics for a while. I then start to put my builds that i slowly refine and work the kinks out for against the dickheads known as Koreans, who throw any and every tactic there is, whether it's never attack, always attack, always harass, or for the hell of it blind cannon rushes and 6 pool crawler all ins.

I personally have been someone who improves a lot, fast. I adapt and learn new builds fast, so this counter-acts the problem of not playing much. I suspect that if i actually played as much as some others on the SEA server, i wouldn't be as good right now as i may be with refined and practice that suits me, because as i stated before i don't play well if my mind isn't there, and i force practice i only practice mechanical skill, and being a BroodWar player my mechanics stay untouched even after long breaks from SC2. So, playing when im motivated to is like 3x the practice of some others, which i really love.

The big thing about my practice that gets me through and probably helped me to get where i am is the LAST option in the poll with 2 votes. I'm someone who thinks A LOT, about anything and everything. It could be seen as my downfall in some aspects of life, but it has allured me to the field of psychology which i currently study, but i see it as nothing but a bonus. I will have constant random thoughts of things. I will for example play out games in my head due to having a picture oriented memory, and imagine battles and imagine 'what if i had hydras here?' and see that. I would then rekindle those thoughts, and in a game i would try it out. I now have gained a better mental image of how things go in that situation, and i keep thinking of possible ways to abuse this. How could i get a bigger advantage before such a fight? How would a followup work? What do i have to look out for? I do this with EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT. OPTION. Whether it's tank heavy mech, thor heavy mech, a marine/hellion drop, a stalker/immortal/sentry ball fight, a 7 gate all in, a roach infestor battle, a muta vs non muta game. I will create theorys constantly and finally create an image of what i want to do and try when i play.

Right now, i am comparing my current play to top zergs. I do this through FPVOD's. I see every little thing they do, and see what i do similar, even if its mechanical. I look for little subtle differences in our play, and ask myself 'why do they do this?' I'll look at crisis management the most, and there reactions to seeing a huge group of units or a perculiar tech option. You combine what other players see, and therefore do and imagine what you would do, and try to find the balance of what works best for your playstyle, and what is most comfortable for you to use.

If i had to create a list of my practice habits and what i suggest to you if you are not a mass gamer, i'd say this:

1) Find practice partners that are your level or above. Willing and above is very important. Play your best and accept losses, and just try things. Just test theory's in your head, don't stick to pinpoint timing. You are not IdrA.
2) Ladder. Ladder exposes you to all sorts of different play. Cheeses, unorthodox timings, passive macro etc. You can see what you find the hardest to vs with your builds and replay analyse the games, and assess things you want to try vs such a problem. Experimenting is fun!
3) Replay analyse. As said above, checking replays is key. I personally don't check every replay because i can see how i lose a game 80% of a time, but there are those games where you just lose and want to see what you could have done because you cannot think of one when recollecting thoughts of a game. Also analyse pro players replays, and do it on there first person view. This will not only help you with the raw builds and reactions to things, but will help with mental stability (seeing them react a certain way will calm you in a game and will make crisis management easier)
4) Talk about the game. This is where TA helps so much, i can just talk shit and get ideas from listening to anyone talk, and they can talk about any match up as long as it's talk. Watching events with people and analyzing the games yourselves and trying to predict what will happen and seeing if you are right is very good training
5) Think about the game. Think about every aspect of the game you can. My favourite is imagining my current builds and or future builds against various types of play from the other races, and imagining the battles, the harassment, the defensive timings. Thinking about the game will help with the actual analysing of replays or playing of practice partners because ideas will be in your head and questions will be there to ask.
6) Have fun! Don't stress! For nearly all of us this is a side-dish to what we may do in real life in the big picture. Enjoy the fact that your imagination can run wild with a game, enjoy that you have people just like you who dig a game that you do. Try also to give respect to each player, which i am learning to do, and just GG out or do not leave smart ass comments. If you rage, and you will, we all damn do, do it to a friend or let it out in your own room on your own. You'll feel better if you give respect to each player you play.

Good luck!

Quick Comments

	ToRDeathsFang:	OMFG why do all these Zergs have so much theorycraft!!
	Nemo:	Awesome ! Thanks Edge and thanks sc2sea :)

[BossDaddy]

All of the above.
Spam Ladder games to get better in terms of execution, and familiarity with gameplay.
Practice custom games with friends/clan to get their feedback and give some in return.
Rehearsing build orders so you don't miss out on important timings.
Watching other's replay and pro replays so you understand the workings behind their metagame and pick up specific gameplay, tricks and tips.
Lastly, premeditation or visualization off the computer. This is only pretty capable when you've got a good sense of the game and it helps you prepare subconsciously for your matches.

Also hit the gym. train your arms a bit. Its said that the stronger your muscles are the better control you have over them. Hence your mouse hand/arm should have very very good control, so gym it!

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	exercise is important! yes
	ToRPandarine:	Exercise-craft!! :D

[ROOT`iaguz]

I just make marines.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Take some medivacs too to dump the gaz. :D

[Digby]

Mass team games.

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I just make marines.

Told you marines are good.

[ROOT`iaguz]

No-ones denying marines are good. You just cannot win with ONLY Marines.

Sometimes you need SCV's and bunkers too