[ZergGirl]

MC (and july) steppin' off a plane and playing at what would be their 4-6am wouldn't have thrown them at all... :P

and what pig said

[Meatex]

maybe his new gf kept him up all night so he was off his game :P

But Idra is pretty stubborn about his views on balance, yes shak is a map that kind of favours protoss in ZvP but I think his attitude in that sense is trying to protect himself against his rage. Instead of trying to fight it out he wants to gg out asap so he can get on with the next game, instead of trying to come back from behind while it makes the rage bubble up inside him.

Could have also been an attempt at some minds games, cheese/throw away the first game so he can get away with a 15 hatch next game?
The final match was a bit retarded though. Idra played well but still got roflstomped. The lesson is: zerg aren't meant to beat protoss ^^

[AlphaWhale]

Originally Posted by PiG

I just can't believe anyone wouldn't put effort into the final matches of a $10K tournament of a sport which their life revolves around. Idra obviously made some horrible, horrible judgements and was simply in a screwed up set of mind after prematurely GGing vs MMA.

But I don't for one second believe he wasn't trying. I think with his weak mindset and emotions got the better of him so his absolute best effort involved some PATHETICALLY executed all-ins whilst he felt sorry for himself.

I'm sick of hearing so many Idra fans saying he lost on purpose vs MMA to go snipe MC or he just wanted to prove that toss was imba or he didnt want to beat koreans for some ridiculous reason.

The problem wasn't him not putting effort in, it was him being too weak mentally to handle the pressure.

I'm not saying he's throwing the matches and I'm not saying it isn't pressure problems. What I am saying is that IdrA may have been in the "dark place" and is less than willing to play out a disadvantage.

IdrA has a defeatist attitude which is why he's less than likely to scrap out games to bitter ends to try win a match. On top of tournament fatigue/stress whatever you want to call it.

[Benji]

Idra said on Inside the game that he left because he thought the CC being built at the gold was a 4th (saw the 3rd CC in base and thought it was at the west gold when in reality MMA killed it, something Idra could never even consider), and given that income, expected another wave of Marine/Medivac/Tank to be heading to the middle to reestablish that position, which he had no way to counter production wise, combined with the drop at the natural which he couldn't clean up fast enough.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Meatex

yes shak is a map that kind of favours protoss in ZvP

How is Shakuras favoured for protoss? Have you tried taking a 3rd base? Let alone trying to deny expansions of a zergs?

If the zerg can hold a 2 base push from the protoss then it becomes ridiculously hard for a toss player to win.

[pikk0n]

Badger, it favours toss because blink stalkers can abuse the cliffs. Blink stalkers are very powerful on that map when used properly by the pros.

However, as for Meatex's final QQ about toss OP..... I disagree because how would you explain Idra winning the first 2 games? It shows me evenness rather than OPness in that a bit of confidence goes a long way into helping you win games. Same can be said about Idra losing the confidence he had early in the tournament.

[FaDeBadger]

Unless your opponent is bad you aren't going to win massing blink stalkers off two bases. Like I said, if the zerg can hold a 2 base push (which most good zergs should) it becomes ridiculously hard.

You can't just call a map protoss favoured because in one specific part of the game, i.e early-midish it does favour them. Because when it comes to mid-late game, it clearly doesn't.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by BadgerWatch

Unless your opponent is bad you aren't going to win massing blink stalkers off two bases. Like I said, if the zerg can hold a 2 base push (which most good zergs should) it becomes ridiculously hard.

You can't just call a map protoss favoured because in one specific part of the game, i.e early-midish it does favour them. Because when it comes to mid-late game, it clearly doesn't.

2 Base pushes aren't easy to hold at any level of play, saying 'oh you should never lose to a 2 base push' is simply a lack of knowledge and experiance on your behalf.

[Next_rim]

You can't just call a map protoss favoured because in one specific part of the game, i.e early-midish it does favour them. Because when it comes to mid-late game, it clearly doesn't.

The thing is a bit more interesting and has nothing to do with blink stalkers, imho. Shakuras favors protoss because:

-Takes zerg a while to build creep up to sideline 3rd
-Protoss can easily abuse sideline 4th, while zerg can't hit P 4th, if 3rd is walled well.
-P forward 3rd is much stronger than Z forward 3rd.

Interestingly enough, if both P and Z expand sideline, Z has stronger 3rd, but weaker 4th. If P expands forward, while zerg expands sideline, P has stronger 3rd, but very weak 4th. So, depending on game state and game plan, P can abuse 3rd placement to force zerg into a weaker base at a certain point in the game, and win right there. That's why Shakuras is P favored. T is even easier, because PF at 3rd sideline gives zerg nightmares.

[Benji]

Also you can forge fe very easily, and its next to impossible to Roach/Ling allin on the map. This means you can cut corners earlygame as you don't have to worry so much about 1/2 base allins.

Quick Comments

pikk0n:

Agreed. This is the one map that I would readily do a forge FE on. It's easier to FFE here because of the high ground advantage at your nat.

[pikk0n]

Badger, I never once said MASS blink stalkers. I said blink stalkers are powerful. Do you ever see a pro going MASS blink stalkers? The blink stalkers can be used to harrass the main and defending a third (if you expand to the top or bot of your base) is easier with blink stalkers guarding the middle. Blink stalkers is one of the strats that make toss more favoured on that map as for other strats, I'm not too sure. BUT you're not going to see ANY pro going MASS blink stalkers off 2 bases... :S Unless it's for LOLz and his early harrassment on the zerg's main worked very well.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Benji

2 Base pushes aren't easy to hold at any level of play, saying 'oh you should never lose to a 2 base push' is simply a lack of knowledge and experiance on your behalf.

With the map control that a zerg should have if a protoss Forge FE's then they should be able to scout what is happening, if they can scout it happening and still lose to it then they are bad. Or the game is broken.

[Edrahil]

Originally Posted by Benji

Idra said on Inside the game that he left because he thought the CC being built at the gold was a 4th (saw the 3rd CC in base and thought it was at the west gold when in reality MMA killed it, something Idra could never even consider), and given that income, expected another wave of Marine/Medivac/Tank to be heading to the middle to reestablish that position, which he had no way to counter production wise, combined with the drop at the natural which he couldn't clean up fast enough.

Exactly how he lost to Huk, because he knew there was no way he could counter or stop the mass of voidrays Huk had been secretly building.

Two issues:

1) Idra looks at a situation with imperfect knowledge, despite him having superior judgement and experience, as Starcraft 2 is a game of imperfect knowledge, it is always possible to make mistakes.
For whatever reason, Idra refuses to accept this fact even in key games.

2) As early as in IEM, Idra has always been leaving tournament games early. However, he has been making a habit of this with the excuse that it is not worth his mental fortitude to stretch what is in his mind an unwinnable situation (despite the first point about imperfect knowledge).

There is some merit to the idea that there is no sense in exhausting himself and dragging a demoralizing loss when he can just start over in a new game, but he ignores the fact that like every other game and/or sport, he is playing against other imperfect beings with imperfect knowledge and is not willing to push himself in hope that his opponent makes a mistake somewhere down the line. Yes, this may only apply in as few as 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 similar situations, but when you are a professional taking part in high profile tournament, I would have hoped that he be willing to dig in deep and tough out the adversity.

[ShinyA]

IdrA even admitted MC didn't look up to par not only in his matches but throughout the entire tournament, so there definitely something to his "jetlagged" comments.

IdrA could beat any player, sure. But of course MC is going to be a hard game for anyone. IdrA was obviously still tilted from the games against MMA and it showed. There was only one decent game and even in that one IdrA was making terrible decisions, he had the proper unit composition to counter MC's but he engaged in a bad area and lost a lot to DT's. No one should really be saying that IdrA should have won those games, especially if you're just basing it off of the first games that IdrA took.

Quick Comments

cRSenSei:

[pikk0n]

Originally Posted by MensA

IdrA even admitted MC didn't look up to par not only in his matches but throughout the entire tournament, so there definitely something to his "jetlagged" comments.

IdrA could beat any player, sure. But of course MC is going to be a hard game for anyone. IdrA was obviously still tilted from the games against MMA and it showed. There was only one decent game and even in that one IdrA was making terrible decisions, he had the proper unit composition to counter MC's but he engaged in a bad area and lost a lot to DT's. No one should really be saying that IdrA should have won those games, especially if you're just basing it off of the first games that IdrA took.

I agree with most of your points. Game 1 and 2 Idra definitely deserved to lose but with game 3, I felt that he could have won the match though the game would have been a very long game had he continued on. As for game 4, I was a little confused about idra not getting blings and infestors but then I suppose that's a massive tech switch. He was basically forced into hydras by MC's early harrassment with the flyers. That said, had spanishiwa been playing MC, I think spanishiwa would have won with the bling/infestor/ultra/mass queen combo. IdrA seemed to be playing the standard old school zerg gameplay with roach hydra corruptors which everyone has been saying, loses to the toss death ball of void/colo/gateway units. Also, he did made a mistake in the last game as you said. He forgot to set his overseer to follow and a lot of hydras died to the dts. A pity. The loss to MMA definitely affected him.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I think they are saying this because of that premature GG against MMA where it didn't seem to be a problem of being 'mentally weak ' or anything - it's not like he just lost his entire army - in fact, he just cleared up the entire Terran's army.

I mean sure, some explanations like his drone-stack on his gas looking like he lost them all may have contributed to it, but it seemed totally weird to just GG out of a won game (as opposed to quitting a game where he can't handle the pressure)
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he still had what 3 other mining bases, even if he lost all the drones at his nat he still had a good chance of coming back.

i love DJ wheat/Day 9's faces when he GG's

[TCPLemminks]

Well I just watched the series and that last game was really good. Thing is in the last battle I don't think taking out the dts would have mattered, since they only came when the battle was done. Unfortunately for Idra his hydra's blocked his infestors from fungal growthing, either that or he didn't fungal growth in time.
Also lol at "are you angry?" from MC at the beginning, shame he didn't have a troll face on.

As for the first 3 games, well they were terrible. The first one was pretty all in, but the second and third he still could have been in the mid game even if he was behind.

OP: yes your emotions can definately affect your decision making and therefore your ability to play. As with the others, I agree that if Idra would focus on the game more, playing his macro style like game 4, with maybe a cheese thrown in every now and then, he could be one of the best in the world. I mean he got to ro8 (ro4?) in GSL once.

[pikk0n]

Lemminks, the dts were actually hacking away at the hydras when idra engaged. There were 3 dts amongst the hydras. Hydras are 'meant to' counter stalkers (even blink stalkers) but like you said. the positioning of his infestors lost him the game as well. Not landing a single fungal growth definitely lost him the battle but the dts also helped MC as well.

Apart from the 'are you angry' comment, i heard that MC did a couple of gestures to idra too. One after the first 2 rounds where idra crushed MC and another after these 4 rounds. Would you happen to have a link to the videos? I have been searching youtube for it and all I can find is MMA's hadouken to idrA. WTF did IdrA do to the koreans??!!!! LOL! What's up with all those antiques???!

[SLCN.Kez]

its probably just because they know he is really bad mannered and thinks hes the best so they like to do it back to him. Imagine a little quiet guy whos only polite, no one wants to bag him, but a really loud obnoxious guy loses? everyone wants to bag him ahaha.

[crAzerk]

@pikkon If you are referring to the cutthroat gesture, go check out Cute's recap on the front page! THe video is included there

And they are doing all these just like how in any other sport there's like trash talking and stuff? It spices up the game both for them and more importantly for the fans! MC really knows how to 'milk the crowd' and makes him a more entertaining player aside from his gameplay.