[EveJeonSa]

Man this is hilarious. But yea my other friends said that you were wrong in some aspects

[HaNdFisH]

I think I need to extend your logic for you,

First you make an overlord and lose it scouting, 100 minerals

Then you remake that overlord for 100 minerals

But now you are behind by 1 overlord, so you need to make another for 100 minerals

Oh dear, you are still behind by 1 overlord, so you again need to make another for 100 minerals

This goes on forever!!!

Hence overlord scouting costs infinity minerals.

If you are actually serious (it seems you are judging by that video), then you need to consider this.

You pay 250 for the evo chamber scout and gain 0 supply
You pay 100 for scout overlord, lose it and then replace it for another 100. Costs 200 and you gain 8 supply.

This 8 supply difference is where you are getting confused, if you are actually serious about this.

Quick Comments

dazaris:

[ZergGirl]

Private youtube video

[Satu]

Unprivatised it then. I really cant make my mind up on this lol

[ToRDeathsFang]

This is so stupid, the maths in this equation is probably simple year 7 and you guys are going on and on and on and on and on and on about it, See where im getting at?

[Cute]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oLO24zCSN8

Enjoy.

You have actually made my night. Oh god hahaha

[PiG]

Are you serious dude?

Why are you trying to make a supply equasion.

Think of it this way: However many overlords u need, you build 1 extra and sacrifice it (or another ovie out on the map in its place). This costs you 100 minerals.

Edit: I watched the video and still believe ur logic is wrong. The overlord you remake still gives you supply. You lose the supply of 1 overlord only. Therefore you have lost 1 larvae and 100 minerals.

The logic is this simple and despite your graphs and stuff you are just overthinking it

[kellyMILKIES]

Bulbasaur is confused!

[kellyMILKIES]

I want to punch you through my screen.

[ZergGirl]

I still see where you are coming from Zergtastic xD

[Edrahil]

Mistake in Op's post

"Overlord saccing
One overlord = 100 minerals.

Overlords required to be made in order to overlord sac:
One overlord to scout + one to replace.

Two overlords = 200 minerals.

Therefore, 200 minerals have been spent due to scouting.

Sacrificed overlord supply = -8
Remade overlord supply = +8 (this should be +16, since you made 2 OLs, 1 to be sacced, 1 to replace the sacced OL)
Total overlord supply change = 0 (this then becomes +8)"

[nirvAnA]

lol at this topic!!

im with pig on this one
its just 100 minerals and thinking abt the supply just complicates stuff!

btw kelly Bulbasaur is such a cute name

[Satu]

Well, I finally worked out the problem, but its ******* rediculous.

The claim against me is that if you make 2 overlords, lose one, you're still up 8 supply max.

But you dont make 2 overlords at once that early in the game, because you fall behind in actual supply if you do. So thats wrong.

Making one overlord, saccing it and making another isnt the same, because you use supply up while you have the first overlord up. The 2 overlord example is useable if you dont use the supply available for your first overlord at all. Yet again, thats not really gonna happen...

Thats literally it. Unfortunately, I cant post that on TL.net because 30 people saying the above point is stronger than what I have to say.

I'll keep the video up for entertainment purposes.

[HaNdFisH]

Okay

So you say have a choice to either
A) Ovie scout
B) Do an evo chamber scout

Option A)
You make 2 overlords, scout with one lose it, other provides supply
Cost 200 minerals, have your standard 8 supply

Option B)
You make evo in their base, costs 250
You still need an overlord for supply though, so another 100
cost 350 minerals total

I really don't understand where you are coming from. Yes if you make 2 overlords and lose one you are up 8 supply that is true. If you are planning on losing an overlord scouting you typically make an extra one, this is where you pay the "cost" of the overlord and it is 100 minerals. This is similar to paying for the hatch cancel into evo chamber which is 250 minerals.

You can make the new overlord so that it pops before the old one dies preventing any supply block from occurring. If you also require an additional overlord to provide extra supply you can make that as well.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Edrahil

Mistake in Op's post

"Overlord saccing
One overlord = 100 minerals.

Overlords required to be made in order to overlord sac:
One overlord to scout + one to replace.

Two overlords = 200 minerals.

Therefore, 200 minerals have been spent due to scouting.

Sacrificed overlord supply = -8
Remade overlord supply = +8 (this should be +16, since you made 2 OLs, 1 to be sacced, 1 to replace the sacced OL)
Total overlord supply change = 0 (this then becomes +8)"

Yeah, I was wrong there. It does kinda depend on when you make units based on overlords though, which will decide how long the overlord supply will be useful for... Thats where most of the problems came from I think. I dunno, too tired now.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by HaNdFisH

Okay

So you say have a choice to either
A) Ovie scout
B) Do an evo chamber scout

Option A)
You make 2 overlords, scout with one lose it, other provides supply
Cost 200 minerals, have your standard 8 supply

Option B)
You make evo in their base, costs 250
You still need an overlord for supply though, so another 100
cost 350 minerals total

I really don't understand where you are coming from. Yes if you make 2 overlords and lose one you are up 8 supply that is true. If you are planning on losing an overlord scouting you typically make an extra one, this is where you pay the "cost" of the overlord and it is 100 minerals. This is similar to paying for the hatch cancel into evo chamber which is 250 minerals.

You can make the new overlord so that it pops before the old one dies preventing any supply block from occurring. If you also require an additional overlord to provide extra supply you can make that as well.

Actually tbh, you got the maths wrong there. If you're looking at minerals lost, its 100 to 200, not 100 to 250. Minerals spent is 200 to 250, if you replace the overlord for the scout and the drone for the evo chamber. If you look at the overlord option, you have 8 supply left to fill if you havent been making units at all.

Either way, its pretty close, and you can dispute 50 minerals or 100 minerals difference is made up for in the fact that the evo chamber gives better scouting and also a few different options.

[HaNdFisH]

Oh wait I see, you are adding on the cost of the drone again for some reason as well, I just used your 250 number without checking you had it right. You are adding the cost of both the overlord and the drone twice without needing to.

Lets look at the cost in minerals to execute these scouting methods irrespective of what else is going on in your build.

You have to pay 75 hatch cancel + 75 evo chamber
150 minerals, -1 drone, assuming you rebuild this drone, another 50
200 minerals

1 overlord costs 100 minerals

I'm not saying evo chamber is a terrible idea (I've done it on occasion to block the protoss FE nexus from going down and then scouting with the broodlings when they kill it) but the way you explained the maths was quite bad. You do not need to add the costs of the drone TWICE, nor the costs of the overlord TWICE.

The difference in minerals, ignoring mining time lost, variations in timing etc is 100 minerals, assuming you rebuild your drone.

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Evo chamber scouting
Drone = 50 minerals

Evo chamber = 75 minerals

Minerals lost from making then cancelling a hatchery = 300/4 = 75

50 + 75 + 75 = 200 minerals in total

Cost to replace the drone = 50 minerals <--- why are you adding this, you have already paid for your drone

200 + 50 = 250 minerals

Therefore, 250 minerals have been spent due to scouting. <-- and building an extra drone

Supply from losing drone = -1
Supply from remaking drones = +2
Total supply change = +1 because you now have an extra drone

[Roz]

i can't believe people are actually debating over this.... you make overlords for supply, u flew 1 of ur overlord over early and sacced it to scout, so you make 1 overlord to replace. Why would u count the cost of both? This is like grade 3 math, it's 100 minerals buddy... If you were up by 2 overlords, say your supply was like 50/66, you sac 1 to scout, it would be 100 minerals yea? This is the EXACT same thing except you weren't up 2 overlords but 1. You make overlords nevertheless, you didn't make it to REPLACE your overlord, u made it so you have the supply.

Quick Comments

dazaris:

[HaNdFisH]

Originally Posted by Roz

i can't believe people are actually debating over this.... you make overlords for supply, u flew 1 of ur overlord over early and sacced it to scout, so you make 1 overlord to replace. Why would u count the cost of both? This is like grade 3 math, it's 100 minerals buddy... If you were up by 2 overlords, say your supply was like 50/66, you sac 1 to scout, it would be 100 minerals yea? This is the EXACT same thing except you weren't up 2 overlords but 1. You make overlords nevertheless, you didn't make it to REPLACE your overlord, u made it so you have the supply.

It is quite easy to become confused over a small error in logic, something that is not simple to point out. The fact that the "maths" involved is trivial can often make it worse because it seems so simple and straight forward.

[HaNdFisH]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Actually tbh, you got the maths wrong there. If you're looking at minerals lost, its 100 to 200, not 100 to 250.

Correct, my bad for not checking your maths thoroughly. Probably didn't help with the misunderstanding here. Sorry for that.

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Minerals spent is 200 to 250, if you replace the overlord for the scout and the drone for the evo chamber.

You have already replaced the drone, so it is 200 for the evo chamber. You have also already replaced the overlord for 100, as above. If you wish to include another overlord in both builds that is another 100 minerals to BOTH, ie 200 vs 300.

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

If you look at the overlord option, you have 8 supply left to fill if you havent been making units at all.

You have overlords anyway, you can make a new replacement overlord to pop the same time the other one dies. This costs you an extra 100 minerals over what you were doing if you weren't going to scout. The production of overlords for food can be thought of as completely separate to the replacement of the scouting overlord and so this is not an issue you need to worry about, except maybe in the specifics of putting together a tight build order.