[ThatGuyDoMo]

Ok guys look

I have been taking a back seat in this issue to see how the EVIDENCE (note i said EVIDENCE or opinion or speculation) unfolds. It is clear that WillChen/FictioN is guilty in some respect and I am truly sorry for that.

I will be taking this matter into my own hands now after I have observed the shit fight this has turned into, I have seen no real debate, just senseless arguing and name calling on both sides.

I am ashamed of my member who has committed this act, we had absolutely no knowledge of any form of hacking on his part prior to this incident. This has taught me a lesson to observe more carefully the intricacies of our players and put in place higher standards of entry into our team.

Please do not take the words of my fellow team members out of context. They were reacting in an emotional sense to a teammate of whom they gave the premise 'Innocent until proven guilty'. I see some of you have taken them as defending their teammate; although this seems the case they were simply giving their FRIEND the benefit of the doubt until everything was sorted out in terms of evidence (sc2 gears, basic logical fallacies in the story etc.).

I understand how some of you will use this singular event and create some ridiculous generalization concerning the entirety of Team Invision, let me tell you that is the definition of flawed logic and I see no point in trying to argue with it. FictioN's actions do NOT AT ALL reflect those of Team Invision and I vehemently reject any supposition that it could be suggested as such.

I apologize to the victims of this scandal(I hope this never has to happen again to anybody) and also to the admins for having to deal with 4-5 pages of utter crap. Thankyou for your time, I will sort this out on my end, admins do your thing.

And ONE MORE APOLOGY to those whos time I have wasted in this verbose post, and to those who have taken offense to anything my members have said. I am dealing with this matter as we speak (or type or whatever).

P.S. I am the iVn manager in case you didn't know.

Quick Comments

	Sola:	A hacker has no change in me in respecting your clan. gogo iVn!
	TAriiChard:	much respect
	nirvAnA:
	nGenLight:	Your clan sucks cuz you got a hacker. I am clearly joking relax.
	TCPKiaSu:	just by reading this I can tell clan iVn is going to go a long way

[Apth]

This thread is to discuss evidence for and against accusations of hacking, not to discuss penalties and responsibilities. Please remember that.

We have established that hacking occurred in this replay submitted by Scope. WillChen has admitted to this.

Either WillChen, or WillChen's friend who was playing on his account, was hacking.

My Recommendation
If WillChen's friend comes forward, his account will be blacklisted.
If WillChen's friend does not come forward, WillChen's account (Fiction) will be blacklisted.

Because WillChen has admitted that hacking occurred in the original replay, we do not need any more replay submissions or analysis. Nor do we need to discuss how this effects WillChen's clan.

Thanks guys.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Hey! That was my idea :)
	Nemo:	Simple, and efficient : Apth trademark
	nirvAnA:

[TCPKiaSu]

@joshboy and edge: what I mean is that the hackers still had the nerve join a clan while they themselves knew that they were cheaters and dishonest. By joining that clan they and lying to a lot of people and could also damage the clans reputation. I think that these hackers are lucky just to have the clan members have their backs and even apolagize on their behalfs (of course I would do that too for a fellow friend and clan member)

Quick Comments

Apth:

I'd really like to see this line of discussion end

[nirvAnA]

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Quick Comments

	sRAnti:	It seems the only person who thinks worse of iVn is you.
	Rage:	This is ridiculous. Because one person in a clan hacks, that makes the others more likely to?
	x5.Revenant:	No.

[Sola]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Did you even read Apth's post before posting this.

[stalking you]

I think Willchen Hacked, Cant wait for DoMo's Post here, really interested to see how this turns out

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

You should judge a clan on how they deal with the situation, not how one of their members acts. If its only a matter of an individual, no need to pull other people into it.

[Meatex]

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

Agreed. Rockstar, you were very vocal when the EvetS drama happened and now. I don't mind that, you're just voicing your opinion, but yeah, pull back. I do like how you stick to your guns no matter what (consistency at its finest old chap) but like Meat said, let them decide what they'll do.

Plus, we've all watched the replay and seen how friggin obvious it is.

[iVnStinger]

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

[stalking you]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

Good to hear you and Domo talked bout it

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

No worries bro, there's nothing personal about any of this. It's unfortunate that these things have taken place and that you and your clan have been dragged into it. As you've probably noticed I despise hackers and think they should be hung by their balls from a tall building. Let me just be clear that I'm not angry at you or iVn, and I do think its very unfortunate that the actions of one person have created this issue. I know you were just trying to defend your mate. I was just trying to point out that perhaps he isn't as good a mate as you think he is.

[Scope_IV]

Anybody have any more information or anything regarding this? I would like to here from iVn on their decisions and such. It has been quiet a while since anything has happened.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Scope_IV

Anybody have any more information or anything regarding this? I would like to here from iVn on their decisions and such. It has been quiet a while since anything has happened.

Well I would say judging by WIllChen's silence that he will be the one held responsible for the hacking, but I would also like to hear what iVn has to say.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Sorry for the delay, myself and Stinger have been trying to get into contact with WillChen/FictioN and he is not responding at all.

I will not assume that this is him throwing a temper tantrum or an example of 'guilt by denial/silence'.

Taking that into account, it does not change the penalty for his actions anyway. He was found guilty by the sc2sea admins/community for hacking based on hard evidence. So admins you can guys do what you do best, as for the iVn side of things (as people seem to want to know rofl) we have decided to kick iVnWillChen/FictioN from the team roster completely and will not consider a reapplication from him in the future due to his childish behaviour (recently) and the uproar his actions have provoked.

I want to thank the people who discovered what WillChen was doing, exposed it and followed up on confirming their allegations sensibly. You have made the SEA scene a better place by removing another person whom clearly holds what we stand for in contempt.

Thanks, from myself and Team Invision!

^.^

Quick Comments

	Apth:
	Nemo:	Good decision
	syfChase:
	MikeTyson:

[Scope_IV]

Thanks for your response, I will be looking forward to playing against your members in the future. Im glad this got all sorted out Thanks to everybody who has put their time and effort into this matter.

[Rage]

I agree with Rockstar that hackers deserve no sympathy. Once hacking has been confirmed, flame away, as far as I'm concerned.

However, don't judge a clan by it.

[Zealo]

semi-suspicious game i had on ladder...

high diamond mmr

player: whiteluxury

+ Show +

http://drop.sc/101287

looks at my base through fog twice, (2nd time directly over pool) before this comment (note he hasn't even scouted my race yet)



also just before the 5 min mark after holding off my initial lings he totally walls off, which may indicate he saw the reinforcing lings on the minimap (or possibly just assumed they were coming instead of me droning behind initial 6 lings) i've never seen someone totally wall off like that before seeing the next round of lings either at their ramp or with scouting probe.

obviously 6 mins of play not enough to be conclusive on its own (maybe he was making a joke about me being random? at the 2 minute mark? :S)

[Nemo]

I've seen the replay. There is no way he could have been certain that you were making a early pool. It could have been a "random guess" but that's very suspicious to say the least.

5:00 : He played very calmly until that point 4 gating in response. Then a bunch of lings come out of your base and he suddenly make a pylon to block his base. You could say that's because he wants to attack with his units and not letting any runby. The stalker is blocked inside at the beginning then he gets it out before remaking the Pylon. His stalker was in great danger in that position. I wouldn't have made that move if I saw those Zerglings coming.



5:24 : And indeed, he looses both his units and the game.




The initial comment is very suspicious but I can't see anything really suspicious after that. Maybe someone else can see other things.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

i wouldn't discount the dumb option