[Dogsi]

Ok, so planning on having a big tournament to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of Starcraft 2. It will be a $1,500 prize pool.

I'm planning on having it be a 32 player tournament. The top 8 from Saturday's tournament will be invited. The other 24 players will have to earn their place in a qualifier.

I am thinking first place will be $800, second place will be $400 and third place will be $200. Then I'll also give out a $100 reward for "game of the month" (ie, the most creative play or the best overall match, such as redarchon vs aLtAaron or pRoCobo's 28 kill colossus drop).

I won't start qualifiers til mid April. Between now and then though, I'd like some feed back on what I could do to improve things. For instance, the map pool has been raised quite a few times. Given that the qualifiers will be played over 3 months, problems might arise.

This is NOT a sign up thread so please don't sign up here.

[Usul]

:O

Wow, such a big prize pool and no announcement of an announcement of the announcement???

More seriously, that's a great news. The sc2 community is lucky to have you.

[TAEdgE]

Very nice idea here Dogsi!

[Aean(:]

Where do you get this money -_-

[OxygeN]

dogsi, can i suggest that you start qualifiers in late march- end april. (24 participants can be done over 8 qualifiers; 2 per week.) as well as why not hold the tournament in mid-may? i think July there may be WCG(if it is included etc) which may clash with the players schedules!

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Aean(:

Where do you get this money -_-

My bank :-P

Have a moderate income and very low expense.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by OxygeN

dogsi, can i suggest that you start qualifiers in late march- end april. (24 participants can be done over 8 qualifiers; 2 per week.) as well as why not hold the tournament in mid-may? i think July there may be WCG(if it is included etc) which may clash with the players schedules!

I thought WCG was august? I'll have to check on that...

I'm doing it in July basically because I wanted to coincide with the anniversary of SC2.

Also, my wife agrees to me kicking out $300 a month for this "pointless hobby" of mine. So that works out to be about $1,500 by July :-P


Why wait until late March? Less time between qualifiers and the actual tournament?

[OxygeN]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

I thought WCG was august? I'll have to check on that...

I'm doing it in July basically because I wanted to coincide with the anniversary of SC2.

Also, my wife agrees to me kicking out $300 a month for this "pointless hobby" of mine. So that works out to be about $1,500 by July :-P


Why wait until late March? Less time between qualifiers and the actual tournament?

oh i think singapore wcg last year was july. haha.

oh because as a suggestion i was thinking 4 weeks of qual, 2 weeks break then the finals.

it can also be spread out across 8 weeks(1 each week), then 2 weeks break.

idk. haha just my thoughts

[Dogsi]

24 additional players = 12 qualifiers at 2 per qualifier (what I am currently planning).

[Dogsi]

Maps... any suggestions?

I'd like to have at least 5 maps but more would be better I think...

[NvPinder]

Meta, xel'naga and Neo-Lost temple are safe bets for 3 of the maps, as for the other 2, im not sure, hard to pick between GSL maps and other ladder maps T-T....

Maybe one gsl map and one new map pool map?

[Benji]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

Meta, xel'naga and Neo-Lost temple are safe bets for 3 of the maps, as for the other 2, im not sure, hard to pick between GSL maps and other ladder maps T-T....

Maybe one gsl map and one new map pool map?

+ Backwater Gulch and Steppes of War


I kid I kid :P

Great idea tho Dogsi!

[Sixth]

do you need a ref =p?

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Sixth

do you need a ref =p?

I always just assume you are in dude :-)

[ZanooKu]

rLsZanooKu#401
:P

[ToRDeathsFang]

Well slap me with a smelly sock you must be rich!

[SayfT]

I would ask for 1 change if possible, allow people to register for multiple qualifiers, I was a little disheartened when I found out we could only sign up for 1 qualifier for DMO7.

Alot of factors can play in qualifying, being hang over from the night before, people in the house annoying you, being sick etc... letting people play in every qualifier would also allow good players that may get knocked out in 1 qualifier to have a chance to get into the next one.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Gerlan.au

I would ask for 1 change if possible, allow people to register for multiple qualifiers, I was a little disheartened when I found out we could only sign up for 1 qualifier for DMO7.

Alot of factors can play in qualifying, being hang over from the night before, people in the house annoying you, being sick etc... letting people play in every qualifier would also allow good players that may get knocked out in 1 qualifier to have a chance to get into the next one.

With that kind of prize pool, everyone will play in every qualifier and you'll have stupidly large brackets. The idea of the qualifiers is to break down the brackets into small chunks so the finals isnt a 7 hour tourney.

And if you sign up to the qualifier, perhaps don't get drunk the night before, warn your housemates to give you some space and sickness is simply unavoidable. What if you got sick on the finals? Should we postpone it so every player is 100%?

[SayfT]

Originally Posted by Benji

With that kind of prize pool, everyone will play in every qualifier and you'll have stupidly large brackets. The idea of the qualifiers is to break down the brackets into small chunks so the finals isnt a 7 hour tourney.

And if you sign up to the qualifier, perhaps don't get drunk the night before, warn your housemates to give you some space and sickness is simply unavoidable. What if you got sick on the finals? Should we postpone it so every player is 100%?

Psi Storm had stupidely large brackets but it turned out to be alright, not every game was casted (doing EVERY game would be ridiculous).

It seems you somehow percieved that I was talking about a player getting sick in the finals so let me re-clarify, a person can be sick DURING one of the qualifiers, yes the fact that he/she is sick may affect his/her play but at least he/she knows that there is another chance to get INTO the 24 spots available with the next qualifier, if he/she gets sick during finals then it would be stupid to give 1 player distinct favoritism and postpone the finals.

Also from your quote

The idea of the qualifiers is to break down the brackets into small chunks so the finals isnt a 7 hour tourney.

You can rectify that by allowing 128 players per qualiifers? Bo1 untill RO8 maybe?

[OxygeN]

we could hold 8 qualifiers, 32 per time. top 3 qualifies(makes the 3rd/4th placing worthwhile to play)

as for the maps : XNC, Metal, Shattered Temple, GSL Crossfire and GSL Tal'Darim

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Gerlan.au

Psi Storm had stupidely large brackets but it turned out to be alright, not every game was casted (doing EVERY game would be ridiculous).

you couldnt play in every psi storm qualifier, each 'qualifying day' had 4 different qualifiers, of which you could play in 1, and there were 4 seperate 'qualifying days'.

Now whilst that system was seriously ******* amazingly awesome. This is not cybergamer and dogsi doesnt have a team of admins willing to work 5 weekends in a row 8 hour days just to make the qualifying process a bit more pristine.

you get what you're given with e-sports tournaments, and in this case, we've been given a whole lot considering theres not really a 'team' or website behind this, its just one dude putting forth a fuckton of cash and spare time to watch the best of SEA battle it out, which i can guarantee you this kind of money will bring exactly that.


edit:

as for the maps : XNC, Metal, Shattered Temple, GSL Crossfire and GSL Tal'Darim

/agree with oxygen.

[Dogsi]

Currently, you can only register for 1 qualifier.

You CAN get in to other qualifiers by showing up and being on standby. You can be on standby for every single qualifier if you really want to.

Currently, only about 1/2 of the people who register for a qualifier showed up for it. The last 4 qualifiers were completely full though, thanks to standbys.

What I believe would be the outcome of allowing people to register for each qualifier:

Each qualifier would have mostly the same people as everyone would simply sign up for all the qualifiers.

People would get qualified but still be registered for other qualifiers.

People will not show up to play in some qualifiers simply because they have other chances. This would increase the number of no shows and decrease the quality of each qualifier.


So while you may feel it is unfair that you can only register for 1 qualifier, I believe it is the best way. I am willing to change my mind if some one can explain why or show me a better way.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

edit:


/agree with oxygen.

Got 2 who agree with those maps. Any other comments?

What about the map pool? Just 5 maps, is that a large enough map pool?

[Benji]

Can't say i'm a massive fan of Crossfire, but its better than quite alot of maps. iCCup Testbug is a map that people should pay abit more attention to, its pretty damn good from the few games i've played on it.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=180254

Zomg edit:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=197335

MLG map pool looks amazing imo, perhaps look at doing a simple copy/paste of that :P

[mGGSouth]

I would love to see a group stage in the tournament either in the qualifers or in the finals.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by TheSouthLord

I would love to see a group stage in the tournament either in the qualifers or in the finals.

Mind elaborating?

[mGGSouth]

Well you put 4,6 or 8 players in a group and they all play eachother. I just find this more entertaining then every single tournament in excistance being knockout. I really have no idea about deatils, but just have a think about it.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by TheSouthLord

Well you put 4,6 or 8 players in a group and they all play eachother. I just find this more entertaining then every single tournament in excistance being knockout. I really have no idea about deatils, but just have a think about it.

This sounds interesting... wouldn't it consume a lot of time?
How to determine who advances? What if they all win 1/2 of their matches?

[Usul]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

This sounds interesting... wouldn't it consume a lot of time?
How to determine who advances? What if they all win 1/2 of their matches?

It would be very similar to how GSL Code S works right now, wouldn't it?

Also, isn't it called a round-robin?

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Usul

It would be very similar to how GSL Code S works right now, wouldn't it?

Also, isn't it called a round-robin?

I've never watched GSL.

[Usul]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

I've never watched GSL.

Here's an example for code S: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/schedule/

And I'm wrong, that is not a round-robin...

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Got 2 who agree with those maps. Any other comments?

What about the map pool? Just 5 maps, is that a large enough map pool?

I agree with oxygen too.

[Dogsi]

Ok, seems a general consensus for maps then. I'll probably stick with those, may add a couple more in just for a larger map pool.

What about the qualifier system?

[Benji]

Well for 24 spots, you could have 12 double elim qualifiers where the winner of the Winners bracket finals and the Loser Bracket finals will progress through (Perhaps even seeding the Winners Finalist over the Loser Finalist). Better than single elim caus if the second best player loses to the best player in the Ro8, the second best player can always win the lower bracket and progress.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Benji

Well for 24 spots, you could have 12 double elim qualifiers where the winner of the Winners bracket finals and the Loser Bracket finals will progress through (Perhaps even seeding the Winners Finalist over the Loser Finalist). Better than single elim caus if the second best player loses to the best player in the Ro8, the second best player can always win the lower bracket and progress.

I like the idea of double elimination. However, I think it may cause a lot of people to cheese more. You can catch some one of guard once and get a cheesy win but you wouldn't be able to do it twice. So people may try to cheese some one who they know is better than them.

Hence why I like Bo3. I guess I could do both but that would make the qualifiers rather time consuming...

I guess I could do double elimination single matches for and then Bo3 for the Ro4 (loser and winner brackets) on?

[aaronkoh]

I think maps like XNC, Shakuras, Metal, Shattered Temple are pretty balanced and I'd highly recommend the new GSL maps which have alot of potential for good entertaining macro games, such as GSL Terminus RE, GSL Tal'Darim Altar, GSL Crevasse. I'm not particular sure about GSL Crossfire SE, just feels alittle weird when i play on it. They definitely seem ALOT better than the new ladder map pool and several maps from the old ladder map pool.

[Dogsi]

TL just informed me I am not supposed to make threads to discuss how to make a tournament (like I did in this thread)... seriously, wtf? Why would they shut down a thread intended to promote e-sports?

[deL]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

TL just informed me I am not supposed to make threads to discuss how to make a tournament (like I did in this thread)... seriously, wtf? Why would they shut down a thread intended to promote e-sports?

It clutters shit up. What you should do is gather the best ideas for here, blog it and get people to vote on their favourite type out of those.

Re: Group stage. That really doesn't work for open tourneys, avoid it for now.

Re: prizepool. Maybe you could let the prizes trickle down a bit lower so top8 or so get rewarded? This would encourage more qualifiers from people who think they are good enough to win a couple rounds but not win a final against a player like OxygeN or mOOnGLaDe.

Originally Posted by OxygeN

oh i think singapore wcg last year was july. haha.

oh because as a suggestion i was thinking 4 weeks of qual, 2 weeks break then the finals.

it can also be spread out across 8 weeks(1 each week), then 2 weeks break.

idk. haha just my thoughts

I don't like having 2 weeks break before finals - 6 weeks is a long time for the first qualifier to wait around. You may get no shows as people who originally could make it didn't realise it was so far away.

Originally Posted by OxygeN

we could hold 8 qualifiers, 32 per time. top 3 qualifies(makes the 3rd/4th placing worthwhile to play)

as for the maps : XNC, Metal, Shattered Temple, GSL Crossfire and GSL Tal'Darim

I definitely like having top3 qualify over a smaller number of qualifiers better than lots with just top2.

Originally Posted by JPMoney

you couldnt play in every psi storm qualifier, each 'qualifying day' had 4 different qualifiers, of which you could play in 1, and there were 4 seperate 'qualifying days'.

Now whilst that system was seriously ******* amazingly awesome. This is not cybergamer and dogsi doesnt have a team of admins willing to work 5 weekends in a row 8 hour days just to make the qualifying process a bit more pristine.

I have noticed with Dogsi's tourneys he does (brutally honest here) take quite a long time to update the brackets and results and respond so I think it's best you do keep this in mind with the format. Nothing would be worse than biting off more than you can chew and having a qualifier run for like 15 hours or something stupid and everyone just leaving. Best keep it simple. For the record only 3 admins (inc me) turned up each time for psi storm ;(

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Currently, you can only register for 1 qualifier.

You CAN get in to other qualifiers by showing up and being on standby. You can be on standby for every single qualifier if you really want to.

Currently, only about 1/2 of the people who register for a qualifier showed up for it. The last 4 qualifiers were completely full though, thanks to standbys.

What I believe would be the outcome of allowing people to register for each qualifier:

Each qualifier would have mostly the same people as everyone would simply sign up for all the qualifiers.

People would get qualified but still be registered for other qualifiers.

People will not show up to play in some qualifiers simply because they have other chances. This would increase the number of no shows and decrease the quality of each qualifier.

So while you may feel it is unfair that you can only register for 1 qualifier, I believe it is the best way. I am willing to change my mind if some one can explain why or show me a better way.

You can easily address all problems here by only opening the tournament registration the day before the event, or have a check-in system. It might seem simpler but it's probably going to be harder to keep track of people who pulled out of a qualifier and so can play in the next or whatever than it is to remove the 2-3 names of the guy who qualified from the next events. People will show - there's always the threat of, say, mOOnGLaDe coming to ruin your party if you wait for the last qualifier.

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Got 2 who agree with those maps. Any other comments?

What about the map pool? Just 5 maps, is that a large enough map pool?

5 maps should be sufficient. Either make it via vetoe or admin nominate the starting map each round. In a Ro32 it's 5 rounds so 5 maps is perfect. For the lower bracket it really doesn't matter that you repeat some starting maps in some rounds because 1. it gives you a chance to make it more fair by using more balanced maps twice or more; and 2. they are probably not going to be broadcast anyway so repeat maps is less of a nuisance.

Also ALWAYS go with double elimination if you have the time. If you need more convincing, oGsTheStC said about the FXOpen Invitational that his favourite thing was the double elimination format.

If you want to justify the Final matches being played in the qualifiers (why play for 1st and 2nd when top2 go through?) you could approach a small sponsor to have a small prize for the #1 qualifier like a mousepad or other hardware.

Also don't always listen to what OxygeN says he might just want to set it up so he wins :P

[Dogsi]

Anyone interested in being a designated caster?

Any recommendations for a caster?

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Anyone interested in being a designated caster?

Any recommendations for a caster?

I'm more than happy to help out again.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Benji

I'm more than happy to help out again.

I like your casting so as long as you're willing to commit, sounds good to me.

[ZanooKu]

i am approaching ban status. i will behave.

[nGenWild]

crossfire is wierd.. 3rd is too far away.. other than that everything sounds good

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by ZanooKu

1 paragraph of trolling.

Can someone ban this dickhead already?

[Benji]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

Can someone ban this dickhead already?

He's just a little cut caus he cannot participate in chat on my stream.

And yea Dogsi, sounds good!

[ZanooKu]

Jealous totez, I cannot chat on your poor stream DAMN BRO.
Pinder, I'm stating my opinion, you don't like it get out.

[Dogsi]

Zanooku, please stay out of this thread.

[deL]

Originally Posted by ZanooKu

Jealous totez, I cannot chat on your poor stream DAMN BRO.
Pinder, I'm stating my opinion, you don't like it get out.

Oooh, Meee-ow!

[Dogsi]

Question I was thinking about last night. Should I invite any foreign players or keep it a sea tournament?

[deL]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Question I was thinking about last night. Should I invite any foreign players or keep it a sea tournament?

I like the idea of SEA players seeing all your tourneys are SEA :3 Maybe the winner can play a showmatch vs someone from Prime?

[ZanooKu]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Question I was thinking about last night. Should I invite any foreign players or keep it a sea tournament?

I think it would be better to keep it a SEA event, no doubt some foreigner will crush our best players...
Anyway I'll honour your request.

[Micksterzone]

I Think this tournament is a great idea, and hopefully when it happens ill be high diamond or something, so i have a chance

[TAEdgE]

Make sure that the maps are good and this tournament will be epic

not anything retarded like Blistering RO16, Jungle Basin RO8 or anything. Who would do that map pool?

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Make sure that the maps are good and this tournament will be epic

not anything retarded like Blistering RO16, Jungle Basin RO8 or anything. Who would do that map pool?

Me? :-P

In case you didn't read, I have been trying to discuss which maps should be used. I have been reading a lot in TL about the maps as well.

Going to try to do this one a bit better.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by Benji

He's just a little cut caus he cannot participate in chat on my stream.

And yea Dogsi, sounds good!

BTW, Benji, you got up to about 500 viewers today. Highest of any of my tournaments. So, thanks :-)

[JacziE]

I would recommend a deeper prize pool (500, 300, 200, 100 etc.) rather than 800, 400, etc

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by JacziE

I would recommend a deeper prize pool (500, 300, 200, 100 etc.) rather than 800, 400, etc

Why? Wouldn't a larger prize be more attractive?

[nirvAnA]

Deeper prize pool seems better, encourages more players and at least 3rd/4th will be worth playing.

who can forget how glade lol'd and instant logged out after he lost to redarchon in last months semis. well u cant balme him he was playing for nothing and it was late etc

[JacziE]

I think 500 is pretty big for SEA standards, and it would give more incentive for people to play better if it's a double elim knockout on the lower brackets. I think up to 4th would be good, or even down to 8th? 500, 300, 200, 100, 50, 50, 50, 50 or something. I think a 500 prize would attract the best SEA players who have stopped playing on SEA. 800 is huge! (Enough that some US guy would probably smurf his way in with an SEA account..)

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Me? :-P

In case you didn't read, I have been trying to discuss which maps should be used. I have been reading a lot in TL about the maps as well.

Going to try to do this one a bit better.

Yeh i did read and i am happy with your initiative, just making a blatent statement to echo my stance on the importance of maps .

[deL]

Yeh basically just read my suggestions again - I also suggested you let the prizes trickle down further. Also for maps crevasse, tal'darim altar and terminus RE are nice additions to the normal ones from blizzard like xelnaga and metal.

No one will smurf SEA lol. Apart from the increased latency if they win convincingly we will know something is up cos SEA is pretty tightly knit.

[ETL.Santi]

MLG Map pool is good if you take out scrap station.
Also as other people said rewarding top 8 would be better than just top 3.

[Dogsi]

Rewarding top 8 requires more work on my part.... I'm still thinking on it.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by JacziE

I think 500 is pretty big for SEA standards, and it would give more incentive for people to play better if it's a double elim knockout on the lower brackets. I think up to 4th would be good, or even down to 8th? 500, 300, 200, 100, 50, 50, 50, 50 or something. I think a 500 prize would attract the best SEA players who have stopped playing on SEA. 800 is huge! (Enough that some US guy would probably smurf his way in with an SEA account..)

If all of SEA's top players show then even the very top NA players would have a hard road to that $800, unless its huk :P

But I agree rewarding top 8 would probably be nice incentive for more players to strive to get to that top level

[kellyMILKIES]

Wow that is a huge prize pool~

[Dogsi]

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I probably won't be doing any more tournaments. Went to start setting it up today and I just don't really have any desire to do it, I'd only be doing it because I said I would rather than because I had any interest in doing it.

Sorry :-/

[Eddie]

That's a shame. I really enjoyed watching and playing in your tourneys Dogsi

But if you've lost the passion, no use feeling obliged to host them. You've done plenty, more than most.

Thanks for all the ones you ran, a great contribution to the Sea community

Still going to play sc2 though?

[deL]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I probably won't be doing any more tournaments. Went to start setting it up today and I just don't really have any desire to do it, I'd only be doing it because I said I would rather than because I had any interest in doing it.

Sorry :-/

If you lost the motivation to go through the motions of hosting yet another tourney or because you are bored with standard formats I might be able to help out. If you're not interested because you are losing interest in SC2 on SEA then that's unfortunate ;(

[cruxBsK]

I'm sure there are others that would happily take over the Dogsi's tradition good work though they look like awesome tourenys.