[nGenLight]

This is a questionable event that took place in the SEASL Qualifier #2 SemiFinals, with the winner of this series securing a spot in the SEASL.

Iaguz managed to win game 4 of his BO5 series against FlashRevz, bringing the score to 2:2 with Revz to pick the next map. The ensuing map picked was Metalopolis, a map that is NOT in the listed map pool. I am 100% certain that Revz(honest mistake) nor anybody else, including Iaguz and the casters, were aware that Metalopolis was not in the map pool.

After some crappy play and a crappy build. Revz beats Iaguz on Metalopolis convincgly. Shortly after Iaguz realised Metalopolis was infact not in the map pool and began protesting - exclaiming how much he hates Metal and to remake on Steppes of War (joke). ArnorZC the admin was brought in to make the decision, and because he was a relatively newer admin, he consulted some more experienced admins(Not revealed) and they made the call "game stands, no regame".

As a competitor myself, I know just how important a map/ map pool is towards my odds of winning. I also am a firm believer of a Justice and abiding by the rules. A game was played that was outside of the map pool, it should have been deemed an illegitimate game.

The fact that there is no regame is very questionable and sets a very bad precedence for future events. SEASL is not some 25$ tournament, it is a prestigious event that will represent SEA on a global scale that has a prizepool of over $1000. It is not the first time the organisation/decision making of SEASL qualifier has been called into question with an admin managing to completely messing up the seeds for the 1st qualifier which players spent hours on the ladder to secure. That and this current set of events has all came down to the decision of basically "well, its done, so let it go?". Saves time? Probably. Professionalism? You be the judge.

Here are some of the recent examples of professional games that were called to regame.

(1) IPL4 - Nestea vs Squritle - Regame despite Nestea in losing position because his keyboard stopped working.

(2) GSTL - MKP vs Parting - Regame with MKP in a losing position because the computers messed up.

I have absolutely no ill feelings towards Revz, his a great guy and probably just didn't read the map pool properly. Although I do believe it is part of the player's (Iaguz) responsibility to ensure the map played is a legitimate map, I do believe he is entitled to a regame - the map played was not legitimate! This is why I question the decision made and implore the community for your opinion/discussion.

This is more than me sticking up for a mate, it hinders the professionalism of SEA-run tournaments. Let's hear your thoughts.

Rayray

EDIT: My thread title was edited without my permission.

EDIT 2: Some good points raised by PiG, Dippa and Eddie for Revenants sake.

"I still disagree that it should be a regame as I think that disadvantages revenant more than metalopolis disadvantaged iaguz"

"both players agreed to play the match beforehand; it's not like Iaguz was tied down and threatened with a pair of clippers and shaving cream to play on Steppes of War, for example."

"Once the series is done, results stand imo. What happens if this occurred mid tournament, player A realises 1 hour later, wrong map was selected, you can't reset all the games that follow, and delay things for everyone else. I know doesn't apply as much this time - but if you are setting a precedent, you have to look at the bigger picture!"

I take back my aggressive tone, as I think it is less about professionalism and more about, what the correct ruling here should be. Had I read many of these arguments earlier, I would have been far more neutral in my OP.

[iM MaFia]

Should be a regame cause you can't play on a map that's not even in the tournament.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	inFeZa:	exactly this.

[TABottles]

I don't see why not

[Dox]

It's a sticky situation... I'd be all for rematching since technically it was played on an invalid map. It was an honest mistake and only picked up after the game though, and with the theme of "robbed victories" in global events lately, I'd hate to see one more victim from our own community added to the list. It's a difficult decision to make and I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make it!

Quick Comments

TACeeSerps:

[nGenLight]

It probably is too late to change the result as it is now, but a ruling should be done for future events.

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:
	TAXanT:
	xGKingdelete:

[NvPinder]

The options of the poll are kinda weird, cos i agree with both.

I mean that in the sense that at the time the decision should've 100% been a re-game without a doubt in my mind. Like if the options were "Should have it been a re-game or not" it should've been yes, however now that it's decided what's done is done.

It's the players (and admins) responsibility to choose a map that's in the map pool. Regardless of how it happened it should be a re-game in this circumstances.

It's hard to tell where the majority of the blame lies for this. On iaguz has obviously done nothing wrong and a re-game was 100% in his right. I'm not sure if an admin pm'd rev the wrong map list (100% admin fault) or if rev just made on metal assuming it was in the map list(more-so rev's fault than anyone elses). But either way placing blame isn't really particularly important, this should always be a re-game.

[Dox]

Actually yeah, after reading Pinder's post I gotta agree. If it's Rev's mistake, then he should face the penalty of a rematch. But if an admin told him the wrong map, then it's not his fault and he shouldn't be forced to do so. (However if he chose to do so that'd be totally fine & honorable and all that)

[nGenLight]

^ Yes, you are right, it should have been "Should there have been a regame".

I can't edit it though

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by NvPinder

The options of the poll are kinda weird, cos i agree with both.

I mean that in the sense that at the time the decision should've 100% been a re-game without a doubt in my mind. Like if the options were "Should have it been a re-game or not" it should've been yes, however now that it's decided what's done is done.

It's the players (and admins) responsibility to choose a map that's in the map pool. Regardless of how it happened it should be a re-game in this circumstances.

It's hard to tell where the majority of the blame lies for this. On iaguz has obviously done nothing wrong and a re-game was 100% in his right. I'm not sure if an admin pm'd rev the wrong map list (100% admin fault) or if rev just made on metal assuming it was in the map list(more-so rev's fault than anyone elses). But either way placing blame isn't really particularly important, this should always be a re-game.

It's my folly and wholeheartedly my fault for picking Meta as I used the ladder map pool as a reference, instead of the tournament thread. For it, I apologize for my carelessness.

I do agree with what Light wrote, but I guess that the admins' decisions were based on the game already being finished, rather than(with reference to Light's case studies), being in the midst of the game. Also, I will agree if a remade is needed.

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	That's pretty decent of you. Cheers mate.
	nGenLight:	Top bloke
	Dox:	this guy is so cool i think i wanna keep some of his hair in a jar
	TABottles:
	ToRPandarine:
	RicocheT:
	EveVendetta:
	TAriiChard:
	asdfSchnitzel:	So manner bear ♥
	[TA]LoSt:
	xGKingdelete:

[dippa]

This is a semi-final; surely the admins knew the game was taking place, right?

A look at the bracket says that the other semi-final was pretty much a roflstomp. The score was 3-0, and while the games might have all been really close, my point is that the semi-final involving Targa would have undoubtedly finished before this game had started.

So casters would have had their eye on this game at least; admins would have known it was taking place at the very least.

The truth in this matter is that players have enough shit on their minds. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that Revz hosted on Metalopolis intentionally. (Furthermore, I've been wondering when/if players would confuse Metalopolis for Metropolis, but I doubt that happened here either.)

If you want someone to blame, it's the admins fault. If this was one of the earlier rounds you could cite the player's since there's obviously too many games for the admins to keep a close eye on each one but considering this was the only game being played in the tournament at the time - they should have made sure it was the right one.

I've been here before a long time ago. It sucks for everyone involved, but shit like this happens. I don't think we need to go overboard in attacking people's professionalism - humans make mistakes, after all. What's important is how people act to clean things up in the future.

The result should stand (this is also a precedent from incidents that have happened in other scenes, like Call of Duty and Counter-Strike, when matches were played on the wrong maps), tbh, and admins just need to be a little more vigilant in the future to prevent this from happening again.

Edit: If Revz was to agree to a regame, that's even better - but if he chooses not to, people shouldn't belt the shit out of him, as he won the game fair and square (even if Metal is a bullshit map).

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:	Thanks for understanding :)
	nirvAnA:
	xGKingdelete:

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

If a map is not in the pool and a game is played on said map then when the mistake is realised it should 100% be a re-game, no question. Wrong maps seem to cause a few problems in tourney's (Ones i have been involved in anyway, as few as they are) and the admin and players need to find out what maps are available and what are not beforehand to stop errors like this happening. I understand during the early stages of a bracket there are a lot of games going on and a lot of questions being asked of admin so they might miss something but in a final that is, in my opinion, completely unacceptable and Iaguz has every right to feel jipped/annoyed. However i agree the same as Pinder with "What is done is done" and mind games and reading/countering each others play with certain builds and styles make up a great part of a BO5 series so now they could not possibly play JUST the last map. Seeing as it was 2-2 before the last map i think the best decision would be to replay the entire series again from scratch. Fairest decision that could come of it in my opinion

[nGenLight]

^ Humans make mistakes, but its not for other people to pay for it, at least when we can control it. "Shit happens" just doesn't cut it for me - The players shouldn't be punished when the Admins could have easily made things right to correct their negligence of what was going on. Also it was a roflstomp, thanx for pointing that out, Alex.

Oh and making mistakes, is not professional. If you can't do the job, don't do it. So yes, even though my attack on certain professionalism may be abit harsh, I stand by my point.

I agree though that it's probably too late to change the result, I just wanted a discussion and for Iaguz to have a voice, he was obviously wronged - This should not go unspoken.

[ROOT`iaguz]

If you wanna regame can we do it tomorrow? My brain is abotu to turn off and my wrist feels like a cement mixer.

Also for references sake

• MLG Tal’darim Altar LE by HemLocK
• MLG Shakuras Plateau by HemLocK
• GSL Daybreak by HemLocK
• GSL Antiga Shipyard by LS Prime
• GSL Dual Sight by wonderland
• GSL Bel’shir Beach (Winter) by Rain
•GSL Metropolis by LSPrime
•GSL Entombed Valley by SungInSPR
• Cloud Kingdom LE by SUPEROUMAN

[nGenLight]

No one is remotely belting or saying anything bad about Revenant, what the heck are you about Alex.

[neKo]

Regame, if there is money on the line you have to be 100% professional about it and you can't just let things this big slide. We have seen with the GSTL rematch how ******* shit and heartbreaking regames can be but it has to happen.

[dippa]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

^ Humans make mistakes, but its not for other people to pay for it, at least when we can control it. "Shit happens" just doesn't cut it for me - The players shouldn't be punished when the Admins could have easily made things right to correct their negligence of what was going on. Also it was a roflstomp, thanx for pointing that out, Alex.

i didn't even read who the opponent was at the time (small screen at work so i minimise the shit out of everything so it fits), sorry dude - but you know that i wasn't really making a comment on the quality of the games, which I couldn't have seen since I'm at work.

and while i agree that this was a simple error that could have been avoided, sometimes it can be difficult to make simple errors depending on the conditions. i don't have enough information about how the tournament was running and what environment the admins/players were under to make an informed judgement on that, however.

dont h8 me pls ray :|

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

No one is remotely belting or saying anything bad about Revenant, what the heck are you about Alex.

i'm predicting future scenarios. been here before as a player and admin and seen players/teams get lynched for taking the win when it was the admins who should have been burned at the stake.

sc2 scene is nicer than others i've been in but everyone gets a little sketchy when it comes to money (and especially invites to big tournaments), so just throwing a little caution to the wind.

[nGenLight]

Fair enough. I don't hate you, it's okay to have different perspectives.

[dippa]

should add that i don't think the admins in this situation need to be burned at the stake either; it was just a turn of phrase, if you will.

[PiG]

Sticky spot. But I think it's unfair to take away revs win. He had to play a game and work for that win. For that to count for nothing is just as bogus as the game being played on the wrong map in the first place.

Iaguz and Revenant, have the map pool open in your browser in future guys. I know it's a pain but I have people try to host wrong maps all the time and have to call them on it. Also I host maps I want to play on only to be told they aren't in the pool all the time. It's just a complication of all tournaments having constantly changing map pools.

I don't see the purpose of this thread other then to stir crap and have a go at Arnor/revenant.

(EDIT: thnx to light and dippa for making me understand the purpose of the thread a bit better. Rather than just being "GIVE IAGUZ A RM, ARNOR/REV screwed up!" I re-read it more closely and see the validity to your argument. I still disagree that it should be a regame as I think that disadvantages revenant more than metalopolis disadvantaged iaguz)

If revenant decides to regame than sure thing. But he should in no way feel like he has to do this to save face or whatever.

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:
	nirvAnA:
	EveTechtron:	bo3 rev starts 1 - 0?

[iM MaFia]

He played a game and won. But how can it count as a win on a map that's not even in the map pool or meant to be played in the first place.