[Spud]

Congrats Tgun Shuffle and Deth.

---

Admin note: So people stop asking in the thread what this topic is about I have edited the info in below

At the recent ACL LAN qualifiers this Sunday:

@sydney tgun - said "t is balanced" instead of GGing and quit. Apologized to iaguz later.
@melbourne deth - threw headset and stormed out of the event without even leaving the game after losing to fourby
@brisbane sensei / minimat said he was calm and fine and if nobody says anything I should remove his name. would be wrong to list him here if he did nothing.

---

Quick Comments

TAScarecrow:

love your work

[Champi]

i feel so bad for fourby lol

[simon]

poor fourby

[BaKaiNu]

Congrats for? Please put more information on the thread.

[Spud]

For nearly finishing first in their group. And behaving well after their narrow losses.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

Negrep for your rep comment below, trying to fuel the fire

[TAScaramanga]

poor poor fourby

[AxSGRiM]

Stop making threads without context. ******* hell, i'd like to know!

[Snx.Mufasa]

quality thread

[ROOT`iaguz]

t is balanced.

(afterwards tgun came up, shook hand and apologised. It's all cool. Some people just get worked up sometimes, and that was a pretty shitty 2 games to lose)_

[iVnStinger]

This thread is win cause from the OP I know exactly what he is talking about. Congratz Tgun Shuffle and Deth!

[iM tgun]

After 5 minutes of cooling down, I walked over, shook Iaguz's hand and told him he was the better player and didn't deserve the shit I gave him. Don't make threads without context, please.

Quick Comments

	HuT:	<3!
	Spud:	U realised Iaguz is better than you. Takes a big man to admit it
	AxSGRiM:
	inFeZa:	^ Star2 brings out the rage, But we're all nice people
	TAScarecrow:	just be mannered in the first place
	FvRsolis:
	nirvAnA:	thanks for clear it up and it takes courage to correct your mistake :)
	EveVendetta:
	FaDeKerrigan:
	ROOT`iaguz:	T is balanced

[TASalvatioN]

calm yourself before i prepare fresh casket

[iM tgun]

Response to Spuds rep - Better than me? I'd say we're even. Played better tonight? Yup.

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:
	Snx.Mufasa:
	TAScaramanga:	i wouldnt go that far
	NDG.Stitch:
	breadfan:
	Dox:	word up
	syfSoundwave:

[Bloodmyst]

More information in the OP would be awesome! I'm sure myself an many other have no idea what this thread is about.........

but yeah, congrats Tgun, shuffle and deth... for whatever it is.

[nGenLight]

why are people say poor fourby

[Dox]

He's highlighting people who showed emotion after losing games today.

[Fourby]

God damn it..

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	^
	Dox:	4BY KILLIN ESPORTS ;D ;D ;D
	SLCN.Kez:	You both are, its disgusting how awesome these tourneys are
	inFeZa:	herotoss <3
	neon:
	dippa:	<3 u 4by
	nirvAnA:	awesome performance man !

[SLCNPezz]

They were fun games I look forward to more LANs in melbourne!

[nirvAnA]

Everybody is bound to feel angry/disappointed when they lose, its only human nature and this is even more so for the most competitive players. I know for a fact that PiG and mOOnGLaDe get very mad whenever they lose to players they feel they shouldn't be losing too, I can recall many of their personal vents. But the difference is they never take it out on their opponent or disrespect them. If they get mad, they make it a point to get get mad only at themselves and for playing bad. Every time PiG ends it with a "gg wp" and so does Revenant (in the recent SMU tourney after losing to relative unknown BlitzSPR), every time at tourneys regardless if their opponent just cheesed them and these are attitudes i have a ton of respect for.

It is unsporting to show your anger on your opponent or complain about imbalance and they are also left with a cheapened feeling that they didn't deserve their victory.

Props to tgun for doing the right thing and apologizing to iaguz after he cooled down.

To all the winners today, iaguz and the xGking team for taking all top 3 spots, Westley a very underrated player for a long time winning his first tournament and fourby who recently got picked up by cR and has been improving steadily - I hope your wins didn't lose any significance because of what happened today, they were impressive showings borne from the dedicated training put it and they should get the full respect they deserve.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:
	JaFF:
	Asrathiel:	Well said
	Mayo:	Why are you so correct
	FaDeKerrigan:
	Dox:	boom
	Reere:

[nGenLight]

what happened today?

[iM tgun]

Scaramanga, you're a douche.

Quick Comments

	Xenomorph:
	TABiggun:	she's a nice lady!
	TAScarecrow:	lol
	wolf:	counter rep, agreed

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by tgun

Scaramanga, you're a douche.

What? Am I not entitled to my own opinion?

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

What? Am I not entitled to my own opinion?

Am I not allowed mine? It's that you're a douche.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	-_________-
	Bash:	lol

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by tgun

Am I not allowed mine? It's that you're a douche.

Is that because I think iaguz is better than you? You need to grow up :\

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

Is that because I think iaguz is better than you? You need to grow up :\

No, it's because you're a douche. You've constantly bm'd me both in the shoutbox and through rep. You are a douche. If you want to have your opinion that Iaguz is better than me, that's fine, but there is no need to put that on here.

Douche.

[NOM]

I was having a nice nap until deth threw his headset . almost had a heart attack.

It was fair enough he got angry, especially from the random framerate drops that everybody was experiencing from the last couple of rounds.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by NOM

I was having a nice nap until deth threw his headset . almost had a heart attack.

It was fair enough he got angry, especially from the random framerate drops that everybody was experiencing from the last couple of rounds.

Sleeping at an event?! Such bm! D:

But yeah framerate issues are terribly frustrating, and should not happen with SC2.

Quick Comments

NOM:

:P I just get so tired after eating nice a nice lunch. They experienced the same problem at the start of the event (before they started the rounds though)

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by NOM

I was having a nice nap until deth threw his headset . almost had a heart attack.

It was fair enough he got angry, especially from the random framerate drops that everybody was experiencing from the last couple of rounds.

I love deth, and whilst frustration and anger are definitely going to be a part of any loss, there's no "Fair enough" for having a tantrum and storming out of the event without gg'ing or even leaving the game, and even more so to a clan mate.

We've all been there getting losses that are ridiculously frustrating, and we've probably all no-gg'd online in tournaments occasionally and especially on ladder where no one really cares, but it was incredibly poor on deth's part to act he way he did in a live tournament setting.

edit; same obviously applies to tgun/shuffle if it is a similar situation, although obviously im not 100% sure what happened there.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:
	nirvAnA:	respect for posting this.
	NOM:	Was really embarrassing how he reacted. Didn't really want to look for him, but I kinda had to :S
	Champi:	OMG UR SO BIASED TO TA U NEVER CALL THE OUT WHEN THEY DO WRONG ONLY OTHERS... o wait
	Fadey:
	HuT:
	simon:	LOL@champi
	Nemo:	Fair

[deL]

Everyone gets mad and has outbursts sometimes but tgun and shuffle are repeat offenders

Quick Comments

NvRossi:

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

PiG and mOOnGLaDe get very mad whenever they lose to players they feel they shouldn't be losing too.. But the difference is they never take it out on their opponent or disrespect them.

I was surprised to see how calm and collected glade was when he lost to TargA (not that losing to TargA is a bad thing - the guy played amazingly all day and told me afterwards that he prepared and played a lot for ACL Brisbane). But it wasn't losing to TargA but the fact that the loss to TargA put GLaDe in 3rd place. After being boned by Swiss bracket before GLaDe shrugged it off made a few jokes about how he shouldn't play Swiss... and happily came along with everyone to Korean BBQ afterwards..

TLR - GLaDe is a really mannered and clam player - part of his calmness you can attribute to why he is so good, imo - he is always calm and level headed in games and doesn't make mistakes in stressful situations.

anyway, some people put a lot of emotion into the game and when the result doesn't go the way they expected - they get quite upset.. that is only natural. However, it takes self control not to express that emotion openly to those around you. I guess the players that lash out with emotion will get better with their in-game emotion when they learn how to control these emotions... And - as far as I know, Shuffle was calm and cool all day long... didn't see him raging at all - but I wasn't sitting nearby...

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	+1 to glade being a total champ. hes an awesome role model for SEA imo
	[TA]LoSt:	This
	Fadey:

[TAminimat]

Anyway, some people put a lot of emotion into the game and when the result doesn't go the way they expected - they get quite upset.. that is only natural. However, it takes self control not to express that emotion openly to those around you. I guess the players that lash out with emotion will get better with their in-game emotion when they learn how to control these emotions... And - as far as I know, Shuffle was calm and cool all day long... didn't see him raging at all - but I wasn't sitting nearby...

He was shaking a bit a was pretty visibly mad from his body language but way more self control than usual.

[iM tgun]

Just want to point out that the second game, Iaguz also said "Infested marines op" and left without gg: not gging the games that don't matter (i.e. the first game in a 2-0, or either game in a 1-1) shouldn't be a big issue: it's like shaking hands inbetween sets in a game of tennis. We were also yelling at each-other midgame for fun.

Quick Comments

	simon:	that was to make light of your marine whinge in game 1. context please!
	mGGDrGooSe:	The point wasn't to say that he did it too, it was to say that the game was irrelevent. He's made the same point on stream many times

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by tgun

Just want to point out that the second game, Iaguz also said "Infested marines op" and left without gg: not gging the games that don't matter (i.e. the first game in a 2-0, or either game in a 1-1) shouldn't be a big issue: it's like shaking hands inbetween sets in a game of tennis. We were also yelling at each-other midgame for fun.

This is something i disagree with, people use the tennis handshake analogy because, in tennis, just how it is good sportsmanship and fully expected of you to shake hands at the end of the match, in starcraft it is fully expected of you and good sportsmanship to say gg at the end of every game, not just end of every series. You can't just decide to change the way things have been done in this community for over a decade because they do it slightly different in tennis dude.

edit: counter example, basketball playoffs, they play BoX series, i'm sure the teams shake hands at the end of every game, not just the end of the series-ending game.

Quick Comments

TABiggun:

100% correct

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

What? Am I not entitled to my own opinion?

Yes you are, but you went about it in a manner that seemed sarcastic and BM. (imo)

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Bash:

[Mayo]

Stop acting like children both of you, honestly.

Quick Comments

	TAScaramanga:	I'm acting in a responsible manner....
	zenabi:	counter rep. i agree with mayo here
	breadfan:
	FSDele:	Hard to disagree with the Mayo!
	PiG:	lol u just got called children by a cs player! SHammeeeee!
	ZC.EvilSWAT:	Mayo is delicious.

[inFeZa]

Lol.... i play ice hockey and i see incidents all the time that have less drama breaking a headset or calling something imba than breaking someones jaw in a fight T_T.

Kinda irrelevant but what I'm saying is get over it? We had our fun, it adds to the excitement of the tournament, and it makes the next game better (as long as theres not a giant lag spike to change the outcome of the game T_T)

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	have to respectfully disagree, we do not want this at events or players to start behaving like this as the norm
	nGenLight:	you've changed!
	Dox:	damn bro TA changed you

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

Lol.... i play ice hockey and i see incidents all the time that have less drama breaking a headset or calling something imba than breaking someones jaw in a fight T_T.

Kinda irrelevant but what I'm saying is get over it? We had our fun, it adds to the excitement of the tournament, and it makes the next game better (as long as theres not a giant lag spike to change the outcome of the game T_T)

Just quoting to say that I disagree with Nirvanas rep and would counter-rep if I could. Negrep shouldn't be put as a disagreement with someones opinion, it should be used when someone is abusive (but not to the point an infraction is warranted).

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

I don't think I've had any interaction with you apart from in this thread. Can you show me such bad manner towards you so I know you're not just making this up? You on the other hand were streamed yesterday getting beaten and then being immature about it afterwards. If anyone's the douche here its you.

It's been on the chatbox: I don't exactly log every bad thing I've ever had said to me, you know. I'm definately the douche here, stepping forward to set the record straight and then having you randomly present your opinion where it's both un-necessary and rude. Yup. I've been a prick to many people and in many ways, but here, you need to shut the **** up.

Also, why is this thread not locked?

Originally Posted by NvPinder

This is something i disagree with, people use the tennis handshake analogy because, in tennis, just how it is good sportsmanship and fully expected of you to shake hands at the end of the match, in starcraft it is fully expected of you and good sportsmanship to say gg at the end of every game, not just end of every series. You can't just decide to change the way things have been done in this community for over a decade because they do it slightly different in tennis dude.

edit: counter example, basketball playoffs, they play BoX series, i'm sure the teams shake hands at the end of every game, not just the end of the series-ending game.

Just wanted to say your counter-example did make me sit here think about it for a moment and I can't do anything but agree. I just don't want people to get the wrong opinion when I don't gg a game in a series: I always say ggs wp at the end of a series -- It's not meant as bad manner, or to insult my opponent.

Quick Comments

Champi:

hopefully u end up gging after every game now. its really not that hard to type gg F10 n. its an automatic reflex for me, no thought process

[Apth]

Originally Posted by tgun

Just quoting to say that I disagree with Nirvanas rep and would counter-rep if I could. Negrep shouldn't be put as a disagreement with someones opinion, it should be used when someone is abusive (but not to the point an infraction is warranted).

Although this is slightly offtopic, I'd quite like to touch on this:

As far as I'm aware, the reputation system is designed to be literally that - how good a community member's reputation is given the value of their posts.

Using reputation to disagree, IMO, sort of defeats the purpose of the system. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and I think disagreement is healthy - it shouldn't affect the reputation of the poster.

Negative reputation should probably be reserved, like tgun mentioned, for abusive posts, or posts with no constructive value.

Disagreeing with someone via a reply, rather than negative rep, allows a more expansive discussion, which is what a forum environment is for.

./2c

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	amazing 2c as always
	NvPinder:	i disagree.
	Stallion:	LOL at pinder :P counter rep as he did to be funny im sure
	nGenLight:	Using reputation to agree, would be the exact same argument, see garbage posts by good players that get repped to no ends.
	inFeZa:	damnit pinder beat me to the joke.
	simon:	sigh

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Apth

Although this is slightly offtopic, I'd quite like to touch on this:

As far as I'm aware, the reputation system is designed to be literally that - how good a community member's reputation is given the value of their posts.

Using reputation to disagree, IMO, sort of defeats the purpose of the system. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and I think disagreement is healthy - it shouldn't affect the reputation of the poster.

Negative reputation should probably be reserved, like tgun mentioned, for abusive posts, or posts with no constructive value.

Disagreeing with someone via a reply, rather than negative rep, allows a more expansive discussion, which is what a forum environment is for.

./2c

I agree with you: my problem was, someone could generally be a good member of the community and suggest ideas and receive negative reputation because people would disagree; they would be receiving negative rep purely for suggesting things, not for being abusive / generally a bad person.

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by tgun

Just quoting to say that I disagree with Nirvanas rep and would counter-rep if I could. Negrep shouldn't be put as a disagreement with someones opinion, it should be used when someone is abusive (but not to the point an infraction is warranted).



It's been on the chatbox: I don't exactly log every bad thing I've ever had said to me, you know. I'm definately the douche here, stepping forward to set the record straight and then having you randomly present your opinion where it's both un-necessary and rude. Yup. I've been a prick to many people and in many ways, but here, you need to shut the **** up.

Also, why is this thread not locked?




Just wanted to say your counter-example did make me sit here think about it for a moment and I can't do anything but agree. I just don't want people to get the wrong opinion when I don't gg a game in a series: I always say ggs wp at the end of a series -- It's not meant as bad manner, or to insult my opponent.

Ive used the chat box less than 3 times. You say I've bmed you in a medium I don't use. Why do you have to lie?

[Trusty]

Pls don't lock, it's helping my survive my work-day

Quick Comments

	Bash:	I'm so lonely and bored, i NEED this thread.
	|Erasmus|:	gotta keep this guy entertained :)
	zenabi:
	Mayo:	banter and trolling will ruin this community
	nirvAnA:
	FSDele:	don't feed the trolls.
	Nemo:	Don't lock threads !
	TADivinity:	^ Agreed, stop locking threads. Its entertainment that we havent had for awhile

[iM yang]

why can't we all just be passive-aggressive nerds and pretend to like each other

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	Because someone didn't say GG!
	nGenLight:	knew u secretly hated me ***
	FSDele:	We are Men. Men don't do the passive thing as well as women..
	Dox:	dragons don't like anyone
	Xavi:	YYYYAAAANNNNNNGGGG oh so wise

[Maynarde]

I think this bad boy has run it's course, probably didn't need to exist in the first place. If anyone has stuff to say to eachother it can now be done via PM.

[nirvAnA]

re: shuffle

does anyone have any information on what happened? if he acted calm and collected like minimat said theres no point having his name in the thread / op.

Quick Comments

cRSenSei:

shuffle was fine and said gg after both his losses vs glade and me

[Maynarde]

Re-opening but this thread is silly. I'm of the opinion it doesn't need to exist and the OP was bad.

Quick Comments

	Snx.Mufasa:	agreed... op is bad
	Bash:	OP was terrible. amazed it lasted a full day.
	Spud:	I agree why does it even exist. The thread maker is a dipsheit.

[syfChadMann]

Re: Shuffle - I've heard that he GG'd all his games and shook players hands after the set.. however he left right after his last game and through out the day looked visibly enraged about his losses. Which is totally fine imo...

Why this thread isn't locked? - well it shouldn't be, this is a serious issue that effects this community.. I've said it before, but until everyone acts professionally and shows high sportsmanship, this game will not be seen as a serious sport... you want eSports to be as big as tennis? - a tennis player would be sacked if they stormed out of a tennis match and told everyone that Dunlop racquet's are imba and they wouldn't have lost if the other guy wasn't using Dunlop.

EDIT: Scara and tgun... take your argument to PMs.. Scara, its good to defend yourself when you've been publicly called out.. but everything has been said now - so take the rest to PMs plz.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

well it shouldn't be, this is a serious issue that effects this community.. I've said it before, but until everyone acts professionally and shows high sportsmanship, this game will not be seen as a serious sport... you want eSports to be as big as tennis? - a tennis player would be sacked if they stormed out of a tennis match and told everyone that Dunlop racquet's are imba and they wouldn't have lost if the other guy wasn't using Dunlop.

That is an issue for sponsors, and not the community. If the sponsors (or teams that have said sponsors) feel that such behaviour reflects negatively on their company they will take them aside and tell them to shape up or lose the sponsorship.

I don't -encourage- bm, or breaking equipment, but for the people who play professionally, there aren't really that many events in Australia. Every result is important. And in some respects, I think the passion that (especially) tgun often shows at Sydney lans is part of the reason I think esports is so amazing, and really does have a shot at making it as a spectator sport.

I was a bit bored this morning, when after making the final four at mlg, HuK showed no reaction. He exchanged a few words with his opponent and just walked off, while the room was filled with screaming fans. Even in tennis, which has already been used as an example that is pretty manner, the winners will wander around the court and acknowledge the crowd, throw armbands into the audience and such. And of course, there are always guys like Lleyton who will let out a big "C'mon" if he wins a big point, and players throwing rackets is not made out to be a big deal.

And everyone loves MKP because a) he's such a cutie, and b)he cries when he loses an important set in the gsl. He does not rage, he does not be rude or mean to anyone, but you can really tell just how much it means to him when he wins.

tl;dr: I don't want people to be bm, or rude, but I don't like how some people want to suck the passion out of everything to be more professional.

Let's not lose all of the passion that some of our best players show in our games. Let's just try and channel it in a more positive direction on these occasions where it boils over a bit.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Mayo:
	Snx.Mufasa:
	Asrathiel:	I wanna hug MKP when he's sad...

[[TA]LoSt]

I wasn't near shuffle the whole time so I can't comment on what I didn't see. From what I saw though, shuffle, although obviously disappointed in how he played, gg'd then got up and said gg to his opponent and was pretty manner about the whole thing (in comparison..)

Quick Comments

TABjornbrandr:

[Trusty]

I enjoy reading these things, because it let's me learn stuff about people that I wouldn't have the chance to normally.

Specifically some of the higher-profile aussie players. Helps me to decide who I want to support or not.

And before anyone says, yes - how you are as a person will and should affect your fan-base.

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

hey support me i have a captains hat

[nirvAnA]

this thread isn't locked because when it just happened in the SEACC we were tempted to do moderation but people said its entertaining and "trash talk happens and is part of the scene". And because this thread is absolutely not any different from that (in fact it is A LOT milder and there are legitimate issues here) there shall not be any double standards.

Anyone who goes out of line in their posts will of course still be warned / infracted when sc2sea Chief of Police BakaInu comes online and i'll imagine that would be a few of you so tgun/scara take it to PMs if you wanna avoid that thanks.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Hey look tgun I think I found you a friend



(Tgun mannered up quickly after he got all ragey. If I cared in the first place about tgun rage then I would care even less now. It's ******* pointless and doesn't deserve a thread or any ******* anything)

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	Bi tch terrans T_T
	Dox:	terran no mother
	Volition:	Good attitude :)

[Jaywalk]

surely something should be done about such a horrible OP, but the thread content is interesting for sure.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by Trusty

Specifically some of the higher-profile aussie players. Helps me to decide who I want to support or not.
And before anyone says, yes - how you are as a person will and should affect your fan-base.

Well, in that case - SenSei was amazingly mannered all day.. such a manner guy.. you should support him ^_^ - he even apologised and said that he felt bad/weird about taking 2nd with GLaDe 3rd when he didn't play GLaDe...

So was JimDiddy!!! - happy and laughing all day...
Can't forget the Diddy..

Quick Comments

	Trusty:	That's good, I have not heard much info about SenSei.
	cRSenSei:	my manager such a nice guy!

[nGenLight]

Or people could have really shitty posts, that people agree with. The reputation system is what is it, people upvoting or downvoting based on their own perception of value in the posts. The same posts delivered by different people would have different effects on the reputation they receive. It is what is is. You cannot abuse a "reputation system", because reputation in itself is a very imperfect way of justifying anybody/posts' true value.

Massive downrepping just means such a post is massively negatively viewed upon by certain groups of the community, regardless if it is justified or not, it is REPUTATION points, not BEING A REALLY GOOD/SMART person points.

Same goes with uprepping, I've seen horse shit posts get uprepped because the poster is well liked or because his good at SC2.

Any way, massive off topic mode off.

I'm sure all players involved will/have made an attempt to right their wrongs, they are not children.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	wise. Lightfucious?
	nirvAnA:	^ what bash said
	syfChadMann:	up-rep cause your pretty good at sc2
	Dox:	i literally rep nearly every post i read lol
	inFeZa:	up rep because you're pikachu
	Fadey:
	TAScarecrow:	up-rep for handsomeness

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Or people could have really shitty posts, that people agree with. The reputation system is what is it, people upvoting or downvoting based on their own perception of value in the posts. The same posts delivered by different people would have different effects on the reputation they receive. It is what is is. You cannot abuse a "reputation system". Because reputation in itself is a very imperfect way of justifying anybody/posts' true value.

There's a reason why I don't have the ability to give people rep anymore, and it's because I agree with you.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

shutup dickhead and uprep me

[inFeZa]

PARTY ON - THREAD OPEN

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	LOL
	Asrathiel:	I want a magic rainbow cat!!
	raycey:	I must make it mine :3
	Volition:	rep for making it impossible to read post below or above with that gif

[syfChadMann]

@ Erasmus - I wasn't suggesting they take the emotion out of the game.. but like you said.. MKP never rages or BMs .... at least not in public. And I totally disagree with your comment -

"That is an issue for sponsors, and not the community. If the sponsors (or teams that have said sponsors) feel that such behaviour reflects negatively on their company they will take them aside and tell them to shape up or lose the sponsorship."

This community site is the gateway to new sponsors. while current sponsors might tell their players that they need to manner up or try and be a bit more professional in public - bad attitudes and kids raging over games isn't going to have new sponsors rushing in.

moral of the story - act professional if you want to be treated as a grown up competing in eSports.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	uprep cuz ur well liked
	TABiggun:	uprep coz youre a pimp

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

@ Erasmus - I wasn't suggesting they take the emotion out of the game.. but like you said.. MKP never rages or BMs .... at least not in public. And I totally disagree with your comment -

"That is an issue for sponsors, and not the community. If the sponsors (or teams that have said sponsors) feel that such behaviour reflects negatively on their company they will take them aside and tell them to shape up or lose the sponsorship."

This community site is the gateway to new sponsors. while current sponsors might tell their players that they need to manner up or try and be a bit more professional in public - bad attitudes and kids raging over games isn't going to have new sponsors rushing in.

moral of the story - act professional if you want to be treated as a grown up competing in eSports.

Just my 2 cents,

I agree with Erasmus here, however I also agree with "the community site is the gateway to new sponsors." Sponsors only care about the numbers game and how much exposure they get, Idra is a perfect example of this! If there is something much more serious such as racism I guess that is when sponsors will make sure it is dealt with asap. But small shit talk like this.... seriously?

As long as the sponsored players/teams are getting that exposure, thats all the sponsors really care about... money. It really shouldn't matter that much what the community thinks about someone and how they behave.. "that much."

If anything, people love the drama. It's not exactly a bad thing. It only attracts more attention = exposure.

P.S - Tgun, you really are deserving of that Mr Confident Award... haha..

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by kiP

Just my 2 cents,

I agree with Erasmus here, however I also agree with "the community site is the gateway to new sponsors." Sponsors only care about the numbers game and how much exposure they get, Idra is a perfect example of this! If there is something much more serious such as racism I guess that is when sponsors will make sure it is dealt with asap. But small shit talk like this.... seriously?

As long as the sponsored players/teams are getting that exposure, thats all the sponsors really care about... money. It really shouldn't matter that much what the community thinks about someone and how they behave.. "that much."

If anything, people love the drama. It's not exactly a bad thing. It only attracts more attention = exposure.

P.S - Tgun, you really are deserving of that Mr Confident Award... haha..

Not sure if insult or compliment

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by tgun

Not sure if insult or compliment

I'm just saying how things are.

I don't like to give my personal opinion at times as I generally get flamed for it. My opinion really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as I'm not a sponsor and am in now way shape or form affiliated with your team.

However, you calling someone a douche on a public forum is questionable considering that it's specifically coming from an "aspiring" Pro gamer. But you know what IMO, some people really are actually down right douche bags and someone needs to tell them! haha. Just not sure if it's OK coming from you "if" your aiming for that Professional appreance, which is much more "attractive" to potential teams or sponsors in future.

I know if I had a snowballs chance of becoming a Pro gamer earning a decent salary, I'd just keep my mouth shut on public forums and simply type "gg wp" at the end of each game. Even if I know inside I'd love to smack the living s^*t out of my opponent for playing such an OP race. lols.

But hey, not everyone is the same.

Quick Comments

Bash:

Respectfully stated an opinion, this is doing it right.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by kiP

I'm just saying how things are.

I don't like to give my personal opinion at times as I generally get flamed for it. My opinion really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as I'm not a sponsor and am in now way shape or form affiliated with your team.

However, you calling someone a douche on a public forum is questionable considering that it's specifically coming from an "aspiring" Pro gamer. But you know what IMO, some people really are actually down right douche bags and someone needs to tell them! haha. Just not sure if it's OK coming from you "if" your aiming for that Professional appreance, which is much more "attractive" to potential teams or sponsors in future.

I know if I had a snowballs chance of becoming a Pro gamer earning a decent salary, I'd just keep my mouth shut on public forums and simply type "gg wp" at the end of each game. Even if I know inside I'd love to smack the living s^*t out of my opponent for playing such an OP race. lols.

But hey, not everyone is the same.

This is my problem with peoples perspective on progamers: you're basically expecting them to show no emotion at all. It's ******* ridiculous. If someone is going to try and call me out for absolutely no reason (like in this thread), you're basically expecting that person to sit there and cop it on the chin; for what reason? Because I'm better than the average person? Because I want to, one day, be playing at an international level?

It makes no sense. Sure, public decorum, blah, blah, blah. I don't understand how people could possibly look at someone responding to being called out and think "You know what, **** this guy and his sponsors. I'm never going to buy x product again". That's absolutely ridiculous.

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by kiP

Just my 2 cents,

I agree with Erasmus here, however I also agree with "the community site is the gateway to new sponsors." Sponsors only care about the numbers game and how much exposure they get, Idra is a perfect example of this! If there is something much more serious such as racism I guess that is when sponsors will make sure it is dealt with asap. But small shit talk like this.... seriously?

As long as the sponsored players/teams are getting that exposure, thats all the sponsors really care about... money. It really shouldn't matter that much what the community thinks about someone and how they behave.. "that much."

If anything, people love the drama. It's not exactly a bad thing. It only attracts more attention = exposure.

Hey man, sponsor here.

If PiG turned into a bantering idiot (not going to happen) I would pull his sponsorship.
There are different types of 'bad publicity' and SEA is too small to warrant any 'bad boy' antics.

I don't want to market my brand as something that supports BM behavior or banter/trolling. I am very harsh on it through all of my sponsored players/teams and it states in all contracts that BM is not acceptable.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Fenner:

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by Mayo

There are different types of 'bad publicity' and SEA is too small to warrant any 'bad boy' antics.

The business world teaches that any publicity is good publicity.
I don't necessarily agree with it, however, but many other larger scale companies do.

Quick Comments

	Mayo:
	raycey:	True that, unfortunately

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Hey man, sponsor here.

If PiG turned into a bantering idiot (not going to happen) I would pull his sponsorship.
There are different types of 'bad publicity' and SEA is too small to warrant any 'bad boy' antics.

I don't want to market my brand as something that supports BM behavior or banter/trolling. I am very harsh on it through all of my sponsored players/teams and it states in all contracts that BM is not acceptable.

Would you not sponsor a BM shit talking player who has won several major events plus consistently shows a large number of viewers on their stream each day?

I'm not sure about you, but if I was a potential sponsor... that sceams out MONEY to me. I couldn't care less how much shit talking the guy did as long as it wasn't anything serious ie. racism, drugs you get the jist. Not only to add the fact, it may be sad... but people love to watch and listen to shit talkers.

Obviously, different sponsors would look for different qualities. If you answered no to my original question, I have a feeling you would be the minority.

Let's be honest here, who would the majority of viewers rather watch? White-Ra, renowned as one of the most well mannered guys in the scene or Idra, renowned as the shit talker. Shit talking just adds to the entertainment however sad it may be.

EDIT: sorry for the double post :s

[Fourby]

@erasmus
iirc just storming off without leaving the game IS bm and rude so everything you just said is irrelevant because what happened at those moments were so far over the top .

If you were to use tennis again. It's like the guy is on the brink of losing the last set but doesn't even play the last set and jut storms out of the stadium, depriving his opponent of the satisfaction of actually winning..

Now that being said, this was how I felt at the time(was so awkward i didnt know what to do so i just sat there shooting the rest of his buildings for 5 mins while everyone was silent lol) and no one has mentioned that he came back and straight away shook my hand and we still went out to dinner after and was all back to the same old with no awkward moments

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Fourby

@erasmus
iirc just storming off without leaving the game IS bm and rude so everything you just said is irrelevant because what happened at those moments were so far over the top .

If you were to use tennis again. It's like the guy is on the brink of losing the last set but doesn't even play the last set and jut storms out of the stadium, depriving his opponent of the satisfaction of actually winning..

Now that being said, this was how I felt at the time(was so awkward i didnt know what to do so i just sat there shooting the rest of his buildings for 5 mins while everyone was silent lol) and no one has mentioned that he came back and straight away shook my hand and we still went out to dinner after and was all back to the same old with no awkward moments

Oh, I agree with that. I was talking a little more generally, but yes, that is definitely rather bm.

And also with what chad responded with, my other point is this. I would not go up to deth after he behaved like that and tell him I think he's a dick, and a disgrace to his team for that bahviour (I wouldn't anyway since he came back and apologised, and I've already said my feelings are bit more lenient than some due to stress, etc.) but I would go up to Dox and ask him wtf he is doing paying that arsehole to represent his team, and any sponsors his team is trying to acquire. And if I thought Dox was just blowing me off, I'd contact his teams sponsors and tell them 'hey, THIS is what you're paying this dude for... is that what you want your brand image to be?'.

And I would be letting them deal with the issue.

Quick Comments

raycey:

You're a fuking dickhead, you have no idea

[Dox]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Oh, I agree with that. I was talking a little more generally, but yes, that is definitely rather bm.

And also with what chad responded with, my other point is this. I would not go up to deth after he behaved like that and tell him I think he's a dick, and a disgrace to his team for that bahviour (I wouldn't anyway since he came back and apologised, and I've already said my feelings are bit more lenient than some due to stress, etc.) but I would go up to Dox and ask him wtf he is doing paying that arsehole to represent his team, and any sponsors his team is trying to acquire. And if I thought Dox was just blowing me off, I'd contact his teams sponsors and tell them 'hey, THIS is what you're paying this dude for... is that what you want your brand image to be?'.

And I would be letting them deal with the issue.

You weren't even there, you're making it into a bigger deal than it was. You're out of line. Stop commenting.

(If you think we haven't already spoken to deth about it before this thread was created, you're very dense.)

Quick Comments

Fourby:

comment about dox and sponsors was very out of line. <3 dox

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Dox

You weren't even there, you're making it into a bigger deal than it was. You're out of line. Stop commenting.

(If you think we haven't already spoken to deth about it before this thread was created, you're very dense.)

No, I'm responding to chadmann specifically when he argued (disagreed w/e) with me over the statement that I don't think dealing with this shit is a community issue, it is an issue for teams/sponsors to work out. That was just me saying what I -would- do (i.e. contact you) IF I thought the issue deserved it. Obviously I didn't, so I'm not making into a bigger deal.

Please read, or stop commenting.

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	shut up erasmus, youve commented on so many things you have no knowledge of
	JoFritzMD:	I don't see why it's so hard for people to see what you mean

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Oh, I agree with that. I was talking a little more generally, but yes, that is definitely rather bm.

And also with what chad responded with, my other point is this. I would not go up to deth after he behaved like that and tell him I think he's a dick, and a disgrace to his team for that bahviour (I wouldn't anyway since he came back and apologised, and I've already said my feelings are bit more lenient than some due to stress, etc.) but I would go up to Dox and ask him wtf he is doing paying that arsehole to represent his team, and any sponsors his team is trying to acquire. And if I thought Dox was just blowing me off, I'd contact his teams sponsors and tell them 'hey, THIS is what you're paying this dude for... is that what you want your brand image to be?'.

And I would be letting them deal with the issue.

That's bullshit Reddit logic. It's the ******* internet equivalent of A Current Affair. HEY GAIS HERE'S A NON ISSUE LET'S START WITH THE NAMING AND SHAMING.

[nGenLight]

no one has mentioned that he came back and straight away shook my hand and we still went out to dinner after and was all back to the same old with no awkward moments

We didn't know,

Deth gets pretty angry when he loses to Protoss, framedrops (who wouldn't). But if he came back and apologized and made things right, respect is regained in my eyes!!!

Thanks for the clarification and well done Samsam, you make Protoss proud .

[nGenLight]

Godamn it! The adults have taken over the thread, leave us gamers alone!!!

Quick Comments

NOM:

Just wanna play video games

[Fourby]

Who cares if insult or compliment. Just be confident yo

Quick Comments

Baldie:

[Fourby]

well dox was sitting next to me (deth on the left, dox on the right and a monitor inbetween XD) I needed to say nothing as the frustrations of the frame drops was getting to everyone from the biggining. I understood his pain, although i personally wouldnt have done it the same way he did lol.

and on that note, zerg imba - mass lings almost crashes the computers there lol.

[Dox]

You're calling a guy an "arsehole" when he didn't do anything to you. You understand that, right?

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Dox

You're calling a guy an "arsehole" when he didn't do anything to you. You understand that, right?

Again. Hypothetical. I said this a few times. IF I thought he'd done something to warrant that kind of message, then I would feel that way about it.

This even started with fourby telling me I was underselling the BM that went on; saying that I understand that trying to be a programer in SEA with such limited oppurtunities is incredibly stressful and every single result is so critical to them.

[Fourby]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

This even started with fourby telling me I was underselling the BM that went on; saying that I understand that trying to be a programer in SEA with such limited oppurtunities is incredibly stressful and every single result is so critical to them.

Yes it was bad, but the thing is he didnt direct any anger directly at me, for all we knew he was just frustrated at the quality of the computers/lag causing him the losses which is where is anger was directe, as he was having a perfect run then losing to westly where frame drops were a factor (im not taking anything away from west, he played very well). If he got up and told me a was a cock sucker that would have been completely unacceptable.

What dox is saying is you dont really know all the details and you just assumed that dox hadent swiftly dealt with the issue already.

Undoubtably deth needs to work on some stress management and with some support he will get there, there is no need to go ahead and try to destroy the opportunites of a player with such potential.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Fourby

Yes it was bad, but the thing is he didnt direct any anger directly at me, for all we knew he was just frustrated at the quality of the computers/lag causing him the losses which is where is anger was directe, as he was having a perfect run then losing to westly where frame drops were a factor (im not taking anything away from west, he played very well). If he got up and told me a was a cock sucker that would have been completely unacceptable.

What dox is saying is you dont really know all the details and you just assumed that dox hadent swiftly dealt with the issue already.

Undoubtably deth needs to work on some stress management and with some support he will get there, there is no need to go ahead and try to destroy the opportunites of a player with such potential.

No, I didn't imply that Dox hadn't handled the issue. I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID THE COMMUNITY SHOULD LEAVE IT TO THE TEAM/SPONSOR TO DEAL WITH FIRST.

I have no problem with anything that happened. I just said it's not our place as the community to deal with the issue directly, and explained to chadmann who responded to that with some measure of disagreement that my process would be to contact the manager, and possibly sponsors if I felt that the issue wasn't being addressed. No part of that is meant to imply that it is not being dealt with by Dox perfectly. Deth unfortunately happened to be the example we were talking of. I have no issue with what Deth did or tried to imply that anyone should.

I don't think there is anything to address at this point. There has been a single instance of some BM, and the player even apologised to his opponent. Much respect for that.

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

That's bullshit Reddit logic. It's the ******* internet equivalent of A Current Affair. HEY GAIS HERE'S A NON ISSUE LET'S START WITH THE NAMING AND SHAMING.

Isn't that what this thread is? I'm saying just take it to the team and make a complaint to them rather than kicking in screaming in the forum if there is a real problem.

[PiG]

Erk.

Erasmus: Try to type a bit clearer man, it really sounded like YOU actually thought deth was a douche and you were almost threatening to go to the Nv sponsors over it.

Dox: He clarified that he was debating a point about the right way to approach the problem of unnacceptable behaviour amongst progamers, in regards to Chadman's comments.

Overall: Erasmus is basically saying who gives a crap about Deth's problem UNLESS its so disgusting that its worth contacting the sponsors over.

TL;DR: Erasmus try to express self clearer, Dox read closer. Miscommunication fail guys.

Edit: erasmus posted same time

Quick Comments

	NOM:	Deth is a douche, :P jk
	Fourby:	short and clear message is winrar. my bad yo
	FSDele:	Clarification Rep for you! sort those kids out!
	mGGAequitas:	Translator PiG to the rescue!
	Fadey:
	JoFritzMD:	PiG saving esports again

[Lyfe]

I do not try to make excuses for what I did, but I do want to reinforce the fact that as soon as i cleared my head i went straight back to the venue, shook fourbys hand, told him gg's and gave him a bro hug.

This is the first time ive done something this stupid at an event, I've literally never cracked like that at the game before, honestly don't know what came over me. Ive lost such frustrating series in offline tourneys before (4 gates from pinder, baneling busts from starhunter), and ive always taken it well in person.

I apologise once again to fourby, as well as my teammates dox and pinder for having to deal with the embarrassment of my unacceptable actions.

I will control my emotions in the future and ensure this event was a one-off.

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:
	syfChadMann:	ironic smurf name.. lol
	Fourby:	much love brother
	TACeeSerps:
	nGenLight:	Your alright buddy
	Maynarde:
	Fadey:
	NOM:	sorry i put some meth in the tonkatsu as a joke :P
	TAminimat:
	TAScarecrow:	<3
	Dox:	LOL NOM
	nirvAnA:	now this is a good and sincere apology
	TAScaramanga:
	inFeZa:	AND NOW YER BANNED. T_T but in all honesty we all <3 u and know the frustrations

[Mayo]

As I said, SEA is too small.

You can get away with it in USA when you have 4,000 people watching a stream. But when the Aus numbers are lower (~50) there is more user interaction.

Tt eSPORTS globally does not support BM players. I mean look at SC2 pro sponsored players for us: MarineKing, White-Ra and PiG. All extremely well mannered players.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	omg MKP IS tTe? sick
	inFeZa:	agreeeee, but we all <3 our bm n_m

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by kiP

I'm just saying how things are.

I don't like to give my personal opinion at times as I generally get flamed for it. My opinion really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as I'm not a sponsor and am in now way shape or form affiliated with your team.

However, you calling someone a douche on a public forum is questionable considering that it's specifically coming from an "aspiring" Pro gamer. But you know what IMO, some people really are actually down right douche bags and someone needs to tell them! haha. Just not sure if it's OK coming from you "if" your aiming for that Professional appreance, which is much more "attractive" to potential teams or sponsors in future.

I know if I had a snowballs chance of becoming a Pro gamer earning a decent salary, I'd just keep my mouth shut on public forums and simply type "gg wp" at the end of each game. Even if I know inside I'd love to smack the living s^*t out of my opponent for playing such an OP race. lols.

But hey, not everyone is the same.

Just want to add on to what tgun said. Most progamers if not all, choose their career because they are passionate about that game. And that is why a lot of them are so good. Its ok to hold in the anger sometimes but I believe its also good to let out emotions Also, I don't think its fair to say "If I was a progamer I would do this.." because lets face it, you're not a progamer.

[Mayo]

@Nivarna's rep - http://www.ttesports.com/press/Press...px?s=214&cid=1

[TCPLemminks]

Erm what the hell did shuffle do?
I sat across him at the LAN, he was perfectly fine, and friendly^^.

[ZC.EvilSWAT]

After reading through 5 pages, all that I have learnt is that MarineKingPrime has a partnership with TTeSports. Time to get teh munnies out and buy meself a TTe keyboard.

Quick Comments

Mayo:

LOL

[syfMiley]

Come on guys

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	TAXanT:	Stop, drop and roll for rob
	TAScaramanga:

[iVnStinger]

My take on the situation and thread.

Just to be clear. I apologize should I say something that is either offensive or not in context. I have gone through all the pages and tried to understand as best as I could, but should I make a mistake please let me know.

"You can mold a mannerism, but must chisel a character"


We are all human. Just because we are manner in a game, doesn't mean we are a better person than the other. Tgun may have raged, but say someone needed his help, do you know if he'd help the person? What you are on the outside and what you are on the inside are totally different.

Take for example people like Meatex or SundeR. They may have gotten off on the wrong foot in this society, but look at who they truly are. Don't just look at how the vent their emotions into a loss or a win. Similarly in this situation, Tgun was just frustrated in one game and he was disrespectful. Does that make him a bad person?

No. He even went up to Iaguz to apologize and shake his hand. What more can you ask for? That is as good as it can get. It should not be up for discussion if what he did was wrong or not. We do not know how we would have felt in his situation. Stop trying to tell him how he should be. He is himself and no one else. We may have felt what he did was rude, but did Iaguz think that? The person who played him didn't give a shit and we want to blame him for that?

Tgun does not deserve praise nor punishment for what he did. He was given a situation, and that is how he reacted. Hopefully in the future he will be in a better mood and this won't occour.

In my honest opinion, this thread was over the minute we knew he apologized later. I honestly suggest a lock.

PS: Sorry again if I got my facts wrong or lacked clarity. Just let me know and I'll make sure to edit it.

EDIT: On a side note, forgot to congratulate you guys! GJ!

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Excellent said
	Snx.Mufasa:
	syfSoundwave:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

My take on the situation and thread.

Just to be clear. I apologize should I say something that is either offensive or not in context. I have gone through all the pages and tried to understand as best as I could, but should I make a mistake please let me know.

"You can mold a mannerism, but must chisel a character"


We are all human. Just because we are manner in a game, doesn't mean we are a better person than the other. Tgun may have raged, but say someone needed his help, do you know if he'd help the person? What you are on the outside and what you are on the inside are totally different.

Take for example people like Meatex or SundeR. They may have gotten off on the wrong foot in this society, but look at who they truly are. Don't just look at how the vent their emotions into a loss or a win. Similarly in this situation, Tgun was just frustrated in one game and he was disrespectful. Does that make him a bad person?

No. He even went up to Iaguz to apologize and shake his hand. What more can you ask for? That is as good as it can get. It should not be up for discussion if what he did was wrong or not. We do not know how we would have felt in his situation. Stop trying to tell him how he should be. He is himself and no one else. We may have felt what he did was rude, but did Iaguz think that? The person who played him didn't give a shit and we want to blame him for that?

Tgun does not deserve praise nor punishment for what he did. He was given a situation, and that is how he reacted. Hopefully in the future he will be in a better mood and this won't occour.

In my honest opinion, this thread was over the minute we knew he apologized later. I honestly suggest a lock.

PS: Sorry again if I got my facts wrong or lacked clarity. Just let me know and I'll make sure to edit it.

EDIT: On a side note, forgot to congratulate you guys! GJ!

You're pretty much spot on with this. Thread needs to be locked, everything has been said.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

[Maynarde]

I agree, see ya thread! *waves*