[Baugi]

I have been playing Zerg since sc2 came out (when I've been actively playing). I recently decided to commit to a race change to Terran and play at least to Plat (starting in bronze on my 2nd account) and at that point decide if I want to stay Terran, go back to Zerg or try Protoss. I'm about 60 ladder games into playing. I have noticed that my biggest issue is going to be the change in the mechanical skill set. I still feel very clunky while playing Terran. I have a pretty good idea on what I should be doing, but my Zerg "instincts" keep throwing me off. I'm open to any suggest to help me out. I realize that the most common response will likely be "play more games" and I do intend to, but are there any other ideas? Thanks in advance,

Baugi

[Apth]

Originally Posted by Baugi

I have been playing Zerg since sc2 came out (when I've been actively playing). I recently decided to commit to a race change to Terran and play at least to Plat (starting in bronze on my 2nd account) and at that point decide if I want to stay Terran, go back to Zerg or try Protoss. I'm about 60 ladder games into playing. I have noticed that my biggest issue is going to be the change in the mechanical skill set. I still feel very clunky while playing Terran. I have a pretty good idea on what I should be doing, but my Zerg "instincts" keep throwing me off. I'm open to any suggest to help me out. I realize that the most common response will likely be "play more games" and I do intend to, but are there any other ideas? Thanks in advance,

Baugi

Focus 100% on macro until you can keep up constant SCV and Unit production without faltering. Worry about builds and unit compositions later.

[ProAnnn]

Change your hotkey settings, what works for zerg may not work for terran.

[wTlzq]

First steps for terran
1) make sure you are constantly making scvs in the early game
2) constantly make units, if your minerals and gas are too high, make more production buildings
3)do not get supply blocked, there should always be a supply depot building

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by iRLProAnnn

Change your hotkey settings, what works for zerg may not work for terran.

What he said. I used to play a mix between zerg and terran and i stuck with zerg in the long run. To be honest , look around for some new hotkey setups as they will no doubt make it far easier for you to increase your skill level. This change is needed due to the completely different macro style of the races hope this helps. Good luck!

[Baugi]

Thanks for the input so far, as far as my hotkey setup, I do use a lot more as terran, 4 = cc, 5 = rax, 6 = factory, 7 = starport, and I've been trying to incorporate 8 as my upgrades (forget them alot). Again love the feed back! Thanks!

[jasonluxie]

Instead of playing, maybe you should watch a terran player that you like? You can find a bunch of videos on player's streams that's just them playing for a few hours. You can actually learn a lot and see how they make decisions.

[RicocheT]

I switched, same as you Baugi to Terran (tho at a higher league).
No doubt you'll feel clunky, but as you continue to play you'll see your game style start to refine more to the Terran mechanics.
It'll be hard also not having just 1 hotkey to spam production and you'll have to put up with building a lot of production facilities lategame to be able to adequately resupply your army.
Honestly though, work on your mechanics like these guys said. Spending minerals/gas and making lots of workers, you'll jump from bronze easily to silver/gold. Later on in the stages you can look at things like build orders and unit compositions.

[Easy]

The big change is that you cant build scvs as fast as you build drones , for example, you forget for 2 minutes to drone up and then you can make them all together. Over here you have to CONSTANTLY build scvs , have all the production buildings working and avoid getting supplyblock.
You can change your mindset if you stop playing by instinct. React to what you scout and play as you know even if you are going to loose. You´ll get used to it and eventually start winning.
When i attempted to move from zerg to terran I used this hotkey setup.
4 Comand Centers
5 Barracks
6 Starport + Factory and switch between with TAB.
9 BAY+ ARMORY (The upgrade hotkey )

And if i play Mech it will look mostly like
4 Comand center
5 Factory
6 Starport+ Factory
9 Armory

Hopefully it helps out , im not highleveled or anything but thats my opinion.

[JohnathanWu]

I as a diamond Zerg who has switched to random find that the best way to transition is to have the mindset of macro macro macro! I really don't like rushing anymore since it's often unreliable. As each race I will often probe/scv/drone really hard and make the cheapest units before I see them come attack me (keep at towers) have scans ready have an obs over his base/army.

[Baugi]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, I love it. Thank you

[Baugi]

Update on this thread, really starting to get a groove now!! just practicing 1-1-1 and 3rax and trying to keep my mechanics sound, played last 10 games vs silver and won! (oddly the silver players I've been playing don't seem as tough as the bronze I was playing before, but maybe that's just because my Terran mechanics are starting to evolve a bit.

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

welcome to the dominion :)

[Nemo]

To switch to in lower leagues here are a piece of advice:

Builds

vs

The problem of this match up is that the there are quite a big number of good very different openings that can kill you if you're caught with the wrong build. Top players will be able to scout them but you won't because you lack experience and multi-task ability to scout very precisely and go on your macro smoothly.

Openings:

• Marine tank push on one base : Standard and kills 1 rax expand because of siege
• 1 rax expand or CC first : Kills you in the long run if you don't kill him right at the beginning;
• Bio rush : Kills you if you don't have a bunker at the entrance;
• The infamous banshee and cloak version: Very hard not to die to it with only marines
• Hellion rundy or drop, with or without blue flame: You loose your SCV, can't make them flee and can't use marines to defend;

Fortunately there is one opening that allow you to defend all that even if your scouting has not been perfect, it's the 1-1-1: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1Rax_1Fact_1Port


What to do:

• Wall off with 2 depots then around the time you have excess mineral or you're spotting something a bunker to complete the wall
• Marines non stop
• Siege tanks non stop
• 1 Viking then see what opponent does for next units of the Starport. If nothing, reactor then Medivacs and vikings to keep air superiority
• Your third 50 energy should generally be used for scanning enemy base.

How it is used vs the different opponent openings :

• Marine tank push : You also have tanks but you have Viking to give vision to yours : You lift opponent siege of your base and are able to expand;
• 1 Rax expand : You attack him and kill his bunkers with sieged tanks
• Bio rush : With a bunker repaired then sieged tanks, it's fine, you're holding it;
• Hellion rundy : No, you walled;
• Hellion drop : This one is tricky. You need to patrol with your Viking the vicinity of your base on enemy arriving air routes to your base. If you fail, you will die so do it well if you don't know what your opponent is doing. A sieged tank in your mineral line can defend it if you can't avoid them land in your base. Also have the habit to lock the access to the rear of your mineral line with depots to avoid them use that "hellion" corridor.
• Banshee : Vikings are perfect to kill banshee, they fire at very long distance and banshee can't flee them over cliffs and void spaces. Cloak come a little later so you may have made a engineering bay. If so as soon as you see banshee, make turrets to detect around your base no more than 3 for main and 2 for expand. That's the urgent solution. If you detect tech lab on Starport or see banshees but not cloaked yet, make instead a tech lab on Starport and 1 raven, because you will need it on the map to attack. Also as soon as you see banshee stop dropping mules as long as you don't have reliable detection to be able to detect them meanwhile.

Then transition in classic marine tank Viking / Medivac, you need to learn how to play this before trying something else.


vs

For some reason, tanks don't do well in this match up. Probably because zealots tank them too well before arriving to contact (and then friendly fire), Stalkers can dodge them and Colossi rape them like other units.
On the other side, Marauders, Marines and Medivacs do very well against Gateway units as long as you have a good concave and in an open space so that Force Fields can't block your army efficiently.
Then Top tier units (Colossi and Storm Templars) rape your bioball. So you want to have ghosts to EMP his sorcerers (Templar, sentries) and suppress their shields and Viking to deal with Colossi.

Opening
For that Match up you have a magic build that should give you a early advantage or defend All-ins, it's the 2 rax pressure (reactor then lab): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...sure_%28TvP%29

The strategy is to go out as soon as your first marauder is out, you should have Concussive Shell just after. Concussive Shell allows you to avoid any kitting stalkers. Marauders shoot at the same distance as stalker and when they hit one, they allow the marines to finish it since it's slowed. You aim at denying his expand. Go to his base, kill his units in his expand, his drones, his Nexus and retreat to your base. While your army is going out of your base, you should have the money to begin a Command Center. As you retreat, you will have a CC in your base and expand or use the mules in your main if you think your expand won't be safe. As you denied opponent expansion, you're ahead. If you see no expand, just retreat to your base and bunker your nat with at least 2 bunker and macro up because the opponent is certainly All inning.


What to do against 1 base All-ins of :

• 4 gate : You have to scout the vicinity of your base with 4 marines to spot for nearby pylons. if you see one building it's 4 gate and then be very careful. The best is to keep your SCV in enemy base to see if he's saving a lot of energy on his nexus. 4 gate beats 2 Rax if there is a open fight. You beat it if you have at least one bunker. Very very important to watch for nearby pylons.
• DT : If you spot 2 gas, make a engineering bay, and make a turret in front of your base and another in drop location and don't push, just expand and bunker your nat. You will be ahead because you expanded first.
• Early drop : Need 2 gas and/or no expand, so you have your army at your base defend with it.
• Blink stalkers : Add a 3rd bunker at your nat and put SCV around them to repair. Keep the bunkers loaded and with the rest of the army, deny the possibility to stalkers to enter. As it's one base All-in, you should have a engineering bay and put some well placed turrets to detect the obs. If you chase it, you counter the stalkers.
• Proxy void rays: Never allow a pylon near your base that could allow an to warp units in your base from bellow with the vision given by void rays or you're absolutely dead. Then let the marauders in the bunker at the entrance and send the marines defend against the void rays. Marauders with CC in Bunker with SCV to repair are unkillable by stalkers and Voids are dominated by marines, so you should be OK. If there are many zealots let some marines behind because they are the best vs Zealots.

After that make

• a lot of bio,
• one then 2 starport (on 3 bases), reactor for the first, lab or reactor for the second one if you want to mix some raven / banshees.
• One or 2 Ghost academies (make both upgrades and some nukes it's cool )
• Multi-prong (2, 3 in the same time) drops and while the ball defend, take an expansion or something with the rest of your army.

vs

Now the match up I fear, as and as even more as .

The idea is to harass the so he can't drone or punish him and kill him if he didn't made enough defenses.

Opening

Make the reactored hellion into expand : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...%28vs._Zerg%29 then marine tank push : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...%28vs._Zerg%29

As soon as you have 4 hellions:

• Move the Factory and make it build a lab, search siege asap
• Build a lab with your 1rst rax, search shield asap
• Put a rax on your reactor

Reacting to All-ins:

• Bust : Easy as you have 4 hellions out, just kite and harass the glings and blings. One thing bust don't like is being on a ramp and be shot by marines from the high ground and flamed by hellion from behind. Hard counter.
• Quick roach : This one is tricky since hellions are not good vs Roaches. As soon as your hellions spot them out of base, make 2 bunkers at your ramp and make marines rallying them to your bunkers (Shift-Click one then the other and prepare to send your "SCV group hotkey 4" to the bunker. You MUST also harass the hellions shooting them with the hellions from behind. then, if he want to retaliate, he has to go backward and then loosing time for his timing push. As soon as you have 1 sieged tank you win.

General idea:
Expand to stay on par economically with the . Make 4 hellion to deny creep, map control and 3rd to the . And if there is no defense, kill his drones.

Then with 3 tanks, keep some hellions in front of your army to scout army, siege his natural and kill him or trade. Each time you have a group of units, rally them (by attack move) to your group. Use elevator into his main.

Macro

The objective of is

• Making a lot of marines (or marauders in vs )
• Making units that support marines (need gas).

What I recommend you to use at horkey set up:

• 1 for army
• 2 for second army
• 3 for casters / special group
• 4 for your "builders" That's the SCV (5-8) that will make the buildings you need to do around your main and after your nat. When you need buildings to be made, select 4, shift-build your buildings (depot, rax, CC etc) and shift click your mineral line. Then your SCV will return mining after they have done their job. All your buildings ordered will be made in the same time as long as you have enough SCV in your group to match all the buildings ordered.
• 5 for All your CC, Orbital command and Planetary fortresses
• 6 All your raxes (make principally reactor and some lab and more labs if )
• 7 Factories (only labs)
• 8 Starports (reactor or lab)
• 9 Engineering bay (1 or 2 if 3 bases) AND Armory, hit qw (grid) then tab and qw or as (if vs ). Quicker way to upgrade fast and not forget it.

Your production cycle is :

• 5, SCV (use tab if you have PF) AND call down mules;
• 6 : Marines and bio (make a lot of marines);
• 7 : Tanks (if needed)
• 8 : Medivacs mainly and Vikings
• 9 : Upgrades
• 4 : Build depots, CC, Raxes (and if needed more Starport / fact /other tech buildings)

How to expand

• Best way to do it is build a CC where it's safe to make it and then fly it to the final place. If you think the final place is safe or is very far, you can build it there.
• For expands far away, make a Planetary Fortress and 3 or 4 turrets around, it will defend itself against all harass. Turrets are there for anti-air defense AND detection (dt, burrowed roaches or infestors).

Hope that helps you.

Quick Comments

	Baugi:	Amazingly Awesome
	ROOTPetraeus:	gosu ^^
	TABjornbrandr:
	Peleus:	Good effort
	FS.Kezz:
	ToRdizz:

[Baugi]

Wow, that is an amazing piece of work, a huge amount of information. Thank you so much, I honestly think something like this would be a great addition to the TGM as a "getting started to this race" or as an addition to the overview section. Thank you thank you thank....i've been pretty well sticking to 1-1-1 vs terran and zerg, and 3rax stim for toss, on all 3 matchups i generally try to push out at about the 10min mark. I especially like the idea of hotkeying several scv's as your builders....i've just been grabbing some as i need em, and send em back to mine. the primary reason i've stuck to this basic setup so far is because my mechanics seem to slip drastically for some reason any time i try to do any kind of micro, or attack or drop or harass. and i'm trying to hone that in. thanks again for the tip and advice, mad props

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Baugi

Wow, that is an amazing piece of work, a huge amount of information. Thank you so much, I honestly think something like this would be a great addition to the TGM as a "getting started to this race" or as an addition to the overview section. Thank you thank you thank....i've been pretty well sticking to 1-1-1 vs terran and zerg, and 3rax stim for toss, on all 3 matchups i generally try to push out at about the 10min mark. I especially like the idea of hotkeying several scv's as your builders....i've just been grabbing some as i need em, and send em back to mine. the primary reason i've stuck to this basic setup so far is because my mechanics seem to slip drastically for some reason any time i try to do any kind of micro, or attack or drop or harass. and i'm trying to hone that in. thanks again for the tip and advice, mad props

If you are using timing attacks, 1/1/1 banshee vs protoss is probably the strongest you can get as Terran. I'm surprised you choose to use it in the other 2 MUs and not vP!

Some builds I recommend learning from Day[9]

ThorZaiN's TvZ (vs Stephano) Day[9] Daily #402
ThorZaiN's TvT (vs PuMa) Day[9] Daily #394

The beauty of ThorZaiN's style is that it involves building a strong economy through early expanding, and getting a TON of early units, which I think is a great way to improve your fundamentals.

And of course, the 1/1/1 banshee - there are variants with cloak, ravens, hellions, you name it.

There's a YouTube channel called AudioBuilds that tells you the build in real time, so you can play the YouTube vid in the background while playing - it helped me to learn the 3 rax stim timing and I think just comparing it to what you're doing would be interesting in your situation, but there's other builds there too

http://www.youtube.com/user/StarCraftAudioBuilds

Quick Comments

Baugi:

[Baugi]

oh wow that is really cool idea, as for as why i don't use it against protoss is that it seems like only thing toss does is 4gate me so far, and i can't seem to hold it off with the 1-1-1, thanks a ton for all the advice!!

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Baugi

oh wow that is really cool idea, as for as why i don't use it against protoss is that it seems like only thing toss does is 4gate me so far, and i can't seem to hold it off with the 1-1-1, thanks a ton for all the advice!!

They key to holding a 4 gate is bunkers. As soon as you scout a 4gate, drop a bunker. Drop a 2nd bunker at around 5:30-6:00 as I think 4 gate timing is about 7:15 from memory? (Sorry I'm not an expert at timings, I just do it roughly for now)

Also, PULL SCVs! You need them repairing bunkers. A 1/1/1 is a fantastic way to counter a 4 gate - while your marines and tanks defend his push, your banshee goes in and rapes his economy (I recommend cloak if this comes up lots). It forces him to multitask which is always a good thing - much harder to reactively multitask than proactively multitask

EDIT: Here's a replay as an example.

I messed up my BO pretty bad (was meant to go gas first) and even though I scouted that some kind of 1 base timing was coming, I didn't throw up a second bunker. I was late to pull the SCVs to repair, but they served their secondary function as a meat shield. Meanwhile, banshees ensured that he wasn't going to recover. economically while I still had a lot of workers mining.

http://signaleleven.net/sc2/replays/...gate.SC2Replay

I can't rate his 4gate since I'm not really any good at protoss, but my MMR is such that half my games are vs Plat at the moment. I think this demonstrates that even with sloppy defense, a 111 can do a solid job holding a 4gate

[Nemo]

You're welcome Baugi. I added the reaction to All-ins.

Yes, I think it could be cool for all beginners or silver and less players.

I would love to have such thing for and as my transition to is painful ...

[faithHunter]

As a fellow Terran, I have only one piece of advice to share to you right now.

In a TvT, when the enemy is going for Siege Tanks, always put your units on Hold Position. Seriously. It will save you bursting aneurysms.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by breadfan

They key to holding a 4 gate is bunkers. As soon as you scout a 4gate, drop a bunker. Drop a 2nd bunker at around 5:30-6:00 as I think 4 gate timing is about 7:15 from memory? (Sorry I'm not an expert at timings, I just do it roughly for now)

4 gate timing is 6:00-6:10...
but yeah.. Protoss rarely 4gate Terran's.. but yeah.. 2 bunkers and enough marines.. you win...

[ricecake]

Originally Posted by neozxa

As a fellow Terran, I have only one piece of advice to share to you right now.

In a TvT, when the enemy is going for Siege Tanks, always put your units on Hold Position. Seriously. It will save you bursting aneurysms.

This is so, so, so important. I cannot tell you how many units I have lost because they blindly charge into a siege line without me looking.

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

4 gate timing is 6:00-6:10...
but yeah.. Protoss rarely 4gate Terran's.. but yeah.. 2 bunkers and enough marines.. you win...

Exactly what you need to do. As long as you have bunkers 4gate shouldn't really be a threat... remember bunkers are almost free so you can use them liberally.

[Natelook]

good luck, race swithcing has to be really hard, i wouldnt do it ever.

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by Nemo

The objective of Terran Macro is

Making a lot of marines (or marauders in vs )
Making units that support marines (need gas).

Not really. You don't always have to make plenty of Marines to play Terran. They simply serve as the infantry unit in most unit compositions. When you go mech, landed Vikings can also serve as infantry for your artillery units, the Tanks and the Thors.

[iM yang]

Marines are fun to use, so are siege tanks