[Peleus]

Warning: Long and I'm sorry I haven't had time to proof read everything, I'll try and go back and fix any errors tonight.

Introduction

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Almost everyone on this site is an eSports fan. We’ve come together with a common goal, and that’s to share our passion for SC2. I think it would also be fair to say that almost everyone shares in the interest and benefits that are gained by SC2 becoming a larger eSport within the SEA sphere, be it through increased tournaments, sponsorship and prizes, more active people on the SEA server leading to higher skill levels overall. It’s also worth mentioning that countless people (i.e. Nivarna, Benji, Dox, so many others) are working extremely hard at making this into a reality. I’m posting this thread not as a complaint about any particular direction that the community is going in, but in the hopes of generating a robust discussion in how the community sees the eSports scene growing, some of the different philosophies out there currently, and what we all want from the future.

I’ll do my best to remain unbiased and present some pro’s and con’s of different thinking, but as with everything my opinions will probably come through in what I’m saying. This isn’t to say I’m right and everyone else is wrong, it’s a launching pad for further discussion about the topic. Let’s look at some of the important things.

Player Pool

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If we want growth, it must be fuelled from a source. I can think of a few different area’s, these include –

a) People within the SEA sphere who currently do not play SC2 at all
b) People within the SEA sphere who currently play SC2, but do so on alternate ladders (i.e. NA / KR) for whatever reasons
c) People external to the SEA sphere who currently play SC2

If participation, growth, etc is to improve, almost inevitably it must come from one of these sources. Our goal then should be how best can we attract these people? I’ll deal with each one in turn.

People within the SEA sphere who currently do not play SC2 at all.

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Believe it or not, I don’t see this category of people as a huge source of growth, or more to the point, one that we can control as much as the other two. The reasoning for this is getting exposure to the market. Blizzard, a company with millions of dollars in marketing potential is actively trying to get people to play SC2, resources that we obviously do not have. In terms of appealing to this demographic, I doubt we could put anywhere near as much of a dent as what Blizzard can. Alternatively, several of our main abilities to convey the message of sc2sea.com such as streaming, tournaments, etc is only likely to appeal to the demographic that is already playing SC2.

What we can do however is within our own personal lives use word of mouth to talk about SC2, and encourage friends and family to give it a go, share out trial keys, show people the starter edition etc.

Summary: Perhaps not a large area for growth as some may think, can be improved through word of mouth, starter edition awareness etc.

People within the SEA sphere who currently play SC2, but do so on alternate ladders for whatever reason

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In my opinion this is one of the bigger areas for growth within our own community. Residing in the SEA sphere means that latency should not be as much of a problem and they have the opportunity with their account to play here if they wish. From this, we must examine why they are playing on these different ladders. I can personally think of three reasons, but I’d be interested to hear from the community their thoughts. Firstly it comes down to there is more people playing, particularly on NA, and therefore quicker to find games and be matched against new people. I don’t see a huge way we can influence this, as it’s a bit of a chicken / egg scenario, with players not coming back until more play, but more won’t play until they come back etc. It’s interesting to note however that if we get more playing on SEA through some influences (more on this later) it may continue to exponentially grow through increased popularity.

The second reason I can think of, or have been exposed to, is the statement of wanting to play with better players, or at higher skill levels. I’m not completely convinced there is merit to this until you’re high GM, as blizzard will match you against appropriate opponents regardless of your skill, but never the less that is a common reason I see, particularly for KR ladder. In the SEA community I think we can attract more people by raising the perceived skill level of our ladder, and sc2sea.com definitely has the ability to do this. A perhaps controversial position which I know has been discussed in the past (and most likely again here) is the attraction of pro’s to our tournaments, to see our best competing with the likes of Korean professionals, or international ‘stars’ as we saw in the Dox Cup. I think this gives a huge boost to the perceived skill level of our community, especially when ‘our’ best are holding their own against foreigners.

Thirdly I see ‘eFame’ coming into play with some sections of the community. The western SC2 culture currently largely resides around NA (to a slightly lesser extend EU) and many of the American pro players. A lot of individuals enjoy the idea that they are playing on the same ladder as these top players, and aspire to be matched against them at some point (completely separate from how realistic it is). Ideally to combat this we would wish to develop our own big names, which “we’ve” (as in they did all the work) done with tgun and moonglade. Once more my opinion in how we can get more great players like this is to have the most competitive environment we can on the SEA server. If we don’t wish to take ourselves as seriously as possible with our competitions, then I don’t think the rest of the SC2 world will take us seriously either.

Summary: I think the best way to attract SC2 players currently on other ladders would be to increase the perceived skill level of our ladder, both through having big names compete here, and also through developing our own stars. Once more in my opinion the best way to do that is to create the most competitive environment available on SEA. Looking at KR, I think it’s fair to say that great players come out of very competitive environments.

People external to the SEA sphere who currently play SC2

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Similar to the first playing group, I don’t think there is a huge potential for growth here, but there is definitely some. If we can foster a community with great, well run tournaments to attract players there is every chance that new friendships will be formed, and people will wish to play here more often. Down the track if we can manage to create more big name players and SEA server awareness we may draw people in, however honestly I think it’s an uphill battle. I don’t have much to say on this demographic myself, but I’d be interested in what the community thinks about how we can draw more people in.

Summary: I can’t see a huge amount of growth here, but I’m interested in what ideas the community has in how we can attract more people from external servers. I think a vibrant eSports scene here may do it, but it’s more of a long term goal than immediate changes we can make.

Money / Tournaments

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Most likely the area that’s going to cause the most discussion, and where I see the most split opinions in our community at the moment. Prize money, sponsors and tournaments have arguably been one of the cornerstones that sc2sea.com is centred on, with it being the hub of all the events going on in the SEA server. I know I personally came across the site looking for tournament information, and discovered the community and future clan there. Currently though we’ve seen two main trains of thought about tournament eligibility, prize money and what’s best for the SEA eSports scene. In the first section I’ll try and detail both sides as fairly as possible before offering my opinion on the situation. It can be largely broken up into “Keep it in the SEA community” and “Let anyone who wants to join, join”.

Keep it in the SEA community

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Probably the most predominate train of thought in sc2sea at the moment is to by and large keep the majority of tournaments centred on a SEA resident / SEA licence eligibility requirement. The advantages are that this allows SEA players to fight it out amongst our own community with the best SEA player winning and taking home the prize. Top SEA players gain some monetary support through tournament winnings, and increased standing within our own community. For example many of the xGKing members, moonglade, tgun, etc have high regard, not only due to their ladder performance but also due to their tournament success. Arguably it can also motivate these players to enter into tournaments and compete more often, as there is not a dramatic step between our top players vs some KR pro’s who have also entered, where you need to beat a Startales member to receive prize money.

Let anyone who wants to join, join

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(Disclaimer: I mainly subscribe to this view, bias may come through) An alternative put forward by a lot of players is let almost anyone who wants to play join with our tournaments, and let the best man win. Arguably we can gain increased exposure to the SEA sphere through having bigger names within the external community join and play with us, and also it looks even better on the world stage when our top players can take on and defeat these established names.

Opinion

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The advantages were put forward for both options, but there are definite disadvantages also. Keeping it in the SEA community can truly mean that we’re not going to be considered world class, and in my opinion that means we’re not going to have as much potential for growth in the future, especially when considering the player pool discussions put forward earlier. On the flip side letting anyone join can lead to an increase in “hit and runs” where a top pro simply comes in, takes the prize money and leaves only to be seen again at the next tournament.

In my opinion, we can do a few different things that may result in a type of compromise, and I want to discuss a few of the perceived advantages of the “Keep it in the SEA community” train of thought. Often I see the idea thrown around that letting our pro’s win money encourages them to play and grows eSports in SEA. I personally don’t see how it actually does anything other than a nice boost to the bank account of those players. That’s no disrespect to them, I’m not saying that they have ill intentions by winning or anything of the sought; I’m simply saying I don’t believe it grows eSports either. The sums of money we’re talking about aren’t enough to consistently send players off overseas, and live off the income to peruse SC2 careers. They are largely very generously given but relatively small amounts that say congratulations you get an awesome prize for being the best person on the day. If you truly want to support our top players then I think sponsorship directly to them is infinitely more effective, and the prizes are simply something we can all have fun playing for, not necessarily a driver for growth. I’m unaware of any SEA player who makes the majority of their income of sc2sea.com tournaments and peruses an SC2 career from it, although I’m happy to be corrected.

As a result, I think the idea of “Keeping it in the community” is a nice thought, and I’m glad to see SEA players capable of getting prizes, but I don’t think it has a huge growth effect either way. Along the same lines, many people have said that it’s a disincentive to play if KR pro’s are also playing, because you’re suddenly forced to beat a member of Startales (or whoever else joins) to gain some prize money. Yes, I can see how that is perceived as a negative, however don’t forget that 85% - 90% of players who join a tournament, realistically, do not have a significant chance of taking it down. Most people join for the competitive spirit, the ability to practice and play against the best, and the small chance of coming out on top. I can assure you that I, and many others, have as much chance of beating moonglade as I do of beating some KR pro, that is to say very little. That doesn’t mean I don’t wish to participate in a tournament, because the money isn’t, and I don’t think should be the motivator. It’s simply a bonus at the end if we’re lucky enough. What we’re talking about honestly is a difference in outcomes for a small percentage of high level players in the community who commonly win tournaments not winning as much any more.

So what do we get out of this? Even if its only a small percentage of high level SEA players affected, why shouldn’t it still go to them rather than KR pro’s? Well, to answer that I think we go back to the beginning, and what we need to do with our player pool to grow the SEA server. Once more it’s my opinion but we need to be competing with these people to grow the SEA eSports scene. We need to demonstrate to a world audience that the SEA scene is capable of hosting top level competition. Arguably (and I imagine a little controversially) I’d almost say that if KR pro’s came over, and played in tournaments while being watched by thousands of people (and being part of what attracted them) then it’s almost worth the prize money for the sake of growth. With growth being the primary concern, more money and more sponsors will come, giving even more opportunities for SEA only side tournaments in the future if that’s what’s wished.

Compromise

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Realistically though I don’t think either hardline approach would be successful, so perhaps we need to look as a community at idea’s we may be able to come up with to satisfy both. For example we could have more clearly tagged foreigner / SEA only listings on a master list of tournaments somewhere. We could have prize money allocated as 1st / 2nd / 3rd and top placing SEA player, allowing the best of both worlds with a great competition being held, but the top SEA players still get a share. I think we could definitely come up with many options if we all sat down and discussed it, which hopefully this thread would allow. As I’ve discussed before whatever the decision however I think there needs to be clear yes / no eligibility criteria that anyone can find out about and determine if they are allowed to join without asking anyone.

Realistically I also know there is an X-factor in this discussion. The bulk of sc2sea’s prize money comes from sponsors, so what they desire will have a large impact on the formats and eligibility of each tournament. Although we may not be able to directly control their decisions, having a clear community consensus about what we desire could certainly go a long way in pointing them in the right direction.

Conclusion

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A lot of people will read this, and think it’s pretty much full of crap. No worries, all I ask is instead of attacking any opinions put forward your own in a constructive way, and if we disagree we’ll talk about it. I believe growth should be the main focus of the SEA community if we wish to improve eSports here. This may lead to more tournaments, more prize money, more sponsorship and benefits to the community. Looking at avenue for growth I think the most realistic path is to attract more high profile events and players to the SEA server, and sc2sea.com’s best role in that would be through hosting higher level competitions to increase our exposure. I also believe that a constant “SEA Only” approach may strengthen the bonds within the SEA community, but doesn’t necessarily do much in terms of growing it.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly want to contribute to this community which I think is fantastic and I want to see eSports in SEA grow. I think having honest and open discussions amongst the community is the best way to facilitate this.

So here are my challenges to everyone reading this;

• How do you think eSports in SEA can grow?
• What role do you see sc2sea.com playing in this development?
• How can we attract more players to the server?
• Should our tournaments include foreign players?
• What do you think we should change, if anything?

The most important thing to take away though is that we need to discuss as a community how we want to go about growing eSports. It's a hundred times more effective to have a clear goal and a plan to achieve it, rather than simply having the goal itself. How are we going to grow eSports?

Quick Comments

	FSBenAD:
	breadfan:	Kudos to the effort you put into this
	ToRXypha:	Great write up
	freaky_beeky:	Interesting read and interesting analysis
	asdfSchnitzel:
	:	VERY well written! Good job!
	Zepph:	good read :)
	Gnemest:
	TCPKiaSu:
	mGGSouth:

[ROOTPetraeus]

Thats an amazing write up. I confess, I haven't read everything but I will at a later date.
Great work, Peleus.

[Mayo]

When you say 'eSports' are you meaning just SC2, eSports as in PC gaming or eSports as PC/Console?

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Mayo

When you say 'eSports' are you meaning just SC2, eSports as in PC gaming or eSports as PC/Console?

To be fair in this context is primarily the SC2 scene, however some aspects may be applicable to other games / communities. Growing SC2 may be a more accurate title, however I also take eSports to imply the competitive nature which I think the post focuses on a lot.

[Loach]

Nice write up

[x5_dot]

So far, from what I've seen some tournaments are exclusively for SEA players whilst others have been opened up to everyone else. I think it comes down to how each tournament is set up and what their goals are.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	+100
	Bash:
	Mayo:
	TAriiChard:

[FSBenAD]

Excellent write up Peleus.

I myself have played mostly on the NA server in the last few months. I switched because I wanted to play against or with my work mates in our sister studios in the US. We have had a few inter office tournaments for fun etc.

As I don't have a lot of time to play, I dont ladder in both servers and since I wanted to know if they were online I always jumped on the NA one, since they don't have access to ours.

I'm not sure how to solve this at all.. I mean I guess if I was logged into to SEA and I could see the status of my NA friends, it might make me more motivated to ladder 1v1 on SEA, as I could just login to NA when I wanted to play with them.

I'm not sure if this is helpful in any way since I'm a casual player

[|Erasmus|]

Going to try and keep this short, but I think Dox is one of the ones who got it right with the Dox cup. Large SEA event, and a small group of pros (some Korean, some from elsewhere internationally).

When you open up a tournament to -anyone- the number of koreans signing up is sort of guaranteeing them a win. I agree that the top 20 or so players on SEA can keep up with the level of koreans we are seeing join our events at this point, but the Koreans are still slightly favoured.

When it's only 2-3 koreans, it's still quite feasible for the SEA players to take them down and make deep runs/win tournaments. That all changes once there are a certain number of them though.

It kind of irks me to see a bit of anti-korean bias taking hold and seemingly growing stronger, we do need to provide some environment for our players to work up to that level with some kind of prize support. Which is what SEA is, really. It's the minor leagues. Anyone from SEA can also play on NA, and compete with the pros there, which is the next step up (and see results like tguns 3rd place (don't get too angry if im slightly off there, please) finish in a TL Open, or Targa qualifying for NASL).

So it makes sense to keep these tournaments about where they are. The SEA tournaments are where you make a name beating moonglade/tgun/iaguz/etc. Then you can go find some foreign pros to beat up on. That doesn't mean we can't have some foreign talent spicing up these tournaments, but having the server dominated by people logging in once a week for a bit of quick cash is not going to help our scene in the long run.

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	I like.
	breadfan:	well said
	Bash:	Well put.

[Apth]

Increase our support for sponsored players.

More sponsored players = more SEA visibility in international tournaments.
To get more sponsored players, we need to persuade companies that it's a good idea to sponsor players.

Watch player streams, get coaching, buy merch, tweet @ their sponsors, voice your support on the forums or in the chatbox. Tell your friends about this baller dude named PiG who smashes nerds whilst displaying a healthy amount of skin on stream.

There is a metric f**kton of SEA players who would kick ass on the international stage, given the chance. Get behind the players who are already representing SEA, and companies will get behind the community.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	:)
	nirvAnA:
	breadfan:	agree
	Bash:
	ToRXypha:
	Asrathiel:	Excellent points

[Bash]

This discussion happened a few months ago with The masters cup (Atleast i think it was the masters cup)
The solution that the admins & co came up with was let Anyone compete in every 3rd or so comp, personally i believe that system works fine, but as not every competition is a regular thing, it really comes down to money, more money allows for even more of a mixture between the two types.

I think the solution would be to have MORE competititons, therefore having moe local ones, and allowing another "Tier" if you will, of "Open" competition where we get to see our best play it out against the best from the world, but of course that means we'd need more money so as to have a prizepool (& to even run these tournaments)

its a tough one, because alot of these people only appear when theres significant prize money to be had, which puts the SEA players at a disadvantage, most arent full-time, and cant GO full-time without money, and these competitions bring in money through sponsorships + prize winnings.


So to me, the solution thats already in place is perfectly fine, they can compete in some competitions, and those competitions will be clearly labelled, but we need "Local only" events to grow & Encourage people.

/my2cents.

[nirvAnA]

Im with what Apth said, increasing the support of sponsored players. And I think in order to do that we have to focus on growing the player base. Simply put, the more starcraft players the more awareness, the more keen sponsors will be as they get more exposure and the more money they will be willing to spend on players. And when sponsors step in to back players, the players have the confidence to go full time to take their level to the next game. Others players are always going to be just half committed and then its hard to compete with the rest of the world or have any semblance of eSports.

I mean look at how much tgun improved when FXO took him on, and if we have like 20 FXOs sponsoring people SEA would be so much more developed now or at least more recognised in the sc2 world but now theres not many viewers/players so sponsors have no incentive to do that. So get your friends to play sc2! Spread the word! I guess thats why we are focusing on just the SEA scene instead of opening registration to the whole world for our tournaments, it also gives more incentive to local sponsors. Its a tricky spot.

[Mayo]

Apth knows what he's talking about

Who needs to buy an EG shirt? We need PiG singlets and xG hoodies!

Quick Comments

	Apth:	I will buy both of those things. No really man, get me a PiG singlet.
	asdfSchnitzel:	All your singlets and hoodies are belong to us

[breadfan]

I agree with pretty much everything so far. On thing stood out - getting our talent playing in overseas events.

Maybe we could have a community initiative where people could donate to help send people overseas? I mean, I don't want to compromise what we have at home, but I think it is important to send people over to represent us overseas wherever possible, even if through the open bracket.

We definitely have some guys who would make a name for themselves in MLG, for example

It's one thing to cry out for sponsors, but from a business perspective, I don't think we can blame sponsors for hesitating. They need to see some sort of return, after all. You need companies with a presence right around SEA for the most part, not just operating in one country.

[mOOnGLaDe]

yay i wanna be sponsored

Quick Comments

	Asrathiel:	I'll sponsor you when I win lotto ^_^
	NDG.Stitch:	um. xGKingMG? or TtMG?

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by breadfan

Maybe we could have a community initiative where people could donate to help send people overseas? I mean, I don't want to compromise what we have at home, but I think it is important to send people over to represent us overseas wherever possible, even if through the open bracket.

4seasonsgaming (Quake community) raised over $1000 to send some Aussie guys to Quake Con, I'm sure if we opened up a donation or a portal to sell merch etc, would be easier.

I will look into getting some PiG merch

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	how about pig hats?
	asdfSchnitzel:	We demand pig hats!

[Apth]

Originally Posted by Mayo

I will look into getting some PiG merch

Benji! Xeria merch! gogogogogo

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

Guuuuu

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Apth

Benji! Xeria merch! gogogogogo

Iaguz Axes, Mafia Drone Plushies, JazBas Angry Korean Dolls anyone?

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	I would buy this stuff
	asdfSchnitzel:	All your merch are belong to me

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Mayo

4seasonsgaming (Quake community) raised over $1000 to send some Aussie guys to Quake Con, I'm sure if we opened up a donation or a portal to sell merch etc, would be easier.

I will look into getting some PiG merch

We could pick out some target events to send players to. Decide if we want to send 1 player to every event or send a few guys to every 2nd or 3rd. I think this is where someone like Dox should be involved!

As for merch, shirts are always good, mouse pads (!) are often overlooked.

[Peleus]

Clearly I've said well and truly my piece in the OP, but I agree largely with what most people are saying. One thing I think it's worth focusing on is the whole growth vs sponsorship thing. I think we can all agree that more sponsorship leads to more exposure, more exposure leads to more growth, and it's a increasing cycle.

So out of that cycle, we have to look at what we can influence without sponsor support (although we have a few great ones at the moment!)

The crux of the post comes down to how can we best influence growth. IMO prizes, tournaments, and the current standing is good for supporting our current crop of players, but not necessarily the best setup for growth. IMO to get growth we need to attract bigger and better players to our already regular events.

This will have the short term effect of decreasing the direct support to our established players, who will miss out on more prize money, but most likely have the effect of growing the scene through increased exposure / desire to watch events from the outside population. Through growing the scene we can then gain more sponsorship to directly support those players who aren't getting as much prize money, while also increasing the general skill level and competitiveness of the tournaments.

I see it as short term pain for long term gain, and I think the current for is great at maintaining the status quo, but we probably won't grow leaps and bounds from it.

Then again, that's what we're here to discuss.

[ToRXypha]

I really like the idea of picking an event and opening up a donation to sponsor getting a player there, have more and more SEA players go to international events will give a great deal of exposure and get attention, especially if a sea player comes out on top.

[freaky_beeky]

The biggest problem I can see for the community is attracting "real" sponsors. Due to our location, for us to compete in most of the major tournaments would require a relatively significant expenditure from said sponsor(s). As our community is neither large nor (generally speaking) a demographic of neo-consumers we are asking for significant investment from sponsors with a high risk and a low probability of returns.

I believe the international events that Dox has organised in the past are a good way of attracting more attention to the scene, but still feel that the demographic, rate of growth and high expense need some significant work from the community before we see any major growth within the SEA eSports community.

I realise this could come across quite negatively but ultimately I would just like to see more idea's such as those brought up in the OP, specifically those around consolidation and purpose to help make the "scene" more attractive to sponsors.

EDIT: After the plethora of posts that were added while I was writing this, I would also just like to add that I'm also a big fan of community sponsored donations to send players to events and can say I for one, would be more than happy to donate some real amounts to see our best compete on the world stage. Next MLG?

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	+1
	SLCN.Kez:	Very true, distance is the biggest thing killing SEA sc2, especially for LAN tournaments.

[Peleus]

Have to agree with you on some points there freaky. I think that large sponsor support isn't going to occur until we have large well received events in terms of viewer ship on streams, etc.

The idea of sending individual players overseas etc is great as a long term goal, but I think it's a huge drain on what little resources we have for the purpose of sending one player to one tournament for possibly one small exposure to a large audience with a small plus / minus for exposure depending on how well they go.

I suppose ideally, and this is my opinion only I'd love to steer away from the idea of supporting only a few key players, be it through prize money, tournaments for international flights etc, as it's investing in some key ambassadors amongst a sea (no pun intended) of other big names on foreign soil. Without going very deep it's hard to make a big impact.

On the flip side, if we can get a wide range of players here, I'd argue it would take less resources (one large prize pool would be roughly equivalent of sending one player overseas with our location), but no matter who wins it's the SEA event with the SEA community, and no matter who wins SEA is exposed and the winner.

Once we have the right conditions where the sea community is established, we the increased resources with can certainly start developing our individual players more through SEA only tournaments, direct sponsorship for those players, international event prizes, etc.

[|Erasmus|]

This thread feels like it has come somewhere, so I'll try contributing again:

My opinion (important words, them) is that the biggest problem with SEA esports is exposure. It's frustrating for many of us when we get all pumped up about PiG or Iaguz or recently Yang qualifying for IEM and we are reading through various things on TL where the general concensus is "who the hell is this random scrub". Then "Oh, he's the SEA rep, but he's not glade so he must be shit".

What SEA needs, is for more of its players to be known by foreign fans. This is not easy. It means playing foreign events in front of those fans, and most importantly, winning. This is especially hard due to time zone conflicts, etc. and most of them not playing full time.

But there are plenty of sponsors already flying players between korea and us/euroope all the time. Australia is a bit out of the way, but it's not really that extreme. The prices are not exorbitantly more. Glade is amazing, and I love him, but even he does not -just- go to a world tournament and tear people to shreds. He has done so, and it's the reason he's fairly well known and one of the only SEA players to have been on a 'big' foreign team.

If you want to see our players sponsored, get them playing and beating people from the other servers in front of their fans, and you'll win some of those fans away.

One idea I have had is actually: The SEACL2. I would absolutely love to see the winner of this competition play a showmatch against the winner of something like the ESEA league in the US (tgun's It'sGosu team is currently tearing up the competition there) for maybe a small amount of money, but try and get it featured on TL at a decent time for the US viewers, and give some SEA players the chance to show off some skill. If there's a similar level EU team league, maybe make it a 3 team thing and fight it out to see which region is best.

Quick Comments

	ToRDjvillian:	i like the 3 team idea
	nirvAnA:	This sounds really good

[Frogmite]

There is two kind of events to develop SEA:

1. Internal events, made for developping new emerging talents in SEA. Events like CO, Clan League are made to develop local clans and local players. These kind of events are made to promote and encourage new talented players.

2. External events, made for top players to compete with best players worldwide. Dox Cup or Master Cup allow the top of the top of SEA to fight against a higher level. These kind of events benefits only the very best of SEA players as most of the best players in SEA can't compete against koreans.

I believe you need both kind of events, if there are no events to promote local talents, the few top players will deplete, local team dying and killing slowly the SC2 scene. If you only make local events, most of the top players will stop playing on SEA if they want a bit of challenge, and top players will never have the chance to compete with the best players worldwide and so, not improve.

Quick Comments

	PiG:	very wise... it was the community opens, this website and aLt that led to me going pro...
	nirvAnA:	Agreed, very wise words
	FSBenAD:
	x5_dot:

[nirvAnA]

Guess what?

Soulja has just decided to sponsor a $750 1v1 tournament for this very purpose. The money has already been received!

He wants to help increase the exposure of SEA and he plans to do that by opening registrations to NA as well, so all the top players can play, which would lead to more exposure for the region. Kinda what this thread is about, so its cool we get to see it in action. The SEA qualifiers will be restricted to SEA residents (See frogmite's point above) but the NA tournaments will be open to EVERYONE and any Korean will be welcome to play in it. He wishes to run it on z33k.com.

So it will be something like

Format:

4 weekly qualifiers held on NA held at NA times (z33k.com)
4 weekly qualifiers held on SEA held at the CO time spot (sc2sea)

$25 prize for each winner = $200

The 8 winners (or perhaps runner ups as well to make it 16, this can be tweaked) will play a championship double elimination cup at the end for $550

Details can still be changed but basically the sponsor's intention follows the OP's idea that registration should be open to all to increase exposure and since thats his wish the tournament will be done that way.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Guess what?

Just got word from a trustworthy benefactor that he wants to sponsor a $750 1v1 tournament for this very purpose. To increase the exposure of SEA and he plans to do that by opening registrations to NA as well, so all the top players can play, which would lead to more exposure for the region. Kinda what this thread is about, so its cool we get to see it in action. The SEA qualifiers will have no restrictions as well and koreans will be welcomed to play.

So it will be something like

Format:

4 weekly qualifiers held on NA
4 weekly qualifiers held on SEA (COs)

$25 prize for each winner = $200

The 8 winners (or perhaps runner ups as well to make it 16, this can be tweaked) will play a championship double elimination cup at the end for $550

Its still being tweaked but basically the sponsor's intention follows the OP's idea that registration should be open to all to increase exposure and since thats his wish the tournament will be done that way.

Now just make sure that this championship bracket gets some good casters and is on the TL calendar at a time when we can get the american viewer count in (I really want to watch our best too, but they need exposure among the fans, and sponsors (advertising to those fans) flying people to MLG etc.)

[FSBenAD]

Lots of wisdom in this thread.

I do believe the solution is to do both, do SEA tournaments only to help grow the local scene and allow new SEA stars to rise, but then also have some tournaments which have some Non SEA people invites/qualifiers, to fight with the best SEA has to offer. That would help build the international reputation of our players and tournaments, help get more sponsor interest which builds the scene long term.

[Peleus]

nirVaNa, that's awesome! Most importantly thank you to the person willing to put the money towards it, that's amazing.

It's exactly the type of thing I think would do a world of good. Touching on what Erasmus is saying as well, I agree completely we need to try and take on those well known names and show that the SEA players can hold their own against them. That's why it's great to open up our tournaments to others - but formats such as nirVaNa's also ensures that the purpose of the tournament (to put SEA players against the world) is maintained and we get the best 'value for money'.

Once more it's getting onto TL's featured list, and getting a ton of viewers for the competition that makes it great for us in terms of exposure, and great for sponsors in terms of hard numbers. There is in my humble opinion a huge difference from a sponsors point of view being able to say "Our events with the SEA community attracted XX,000 unique viewers, we'd love it if you sponsor our community as a result" against sending one person overseas and being able to say "One person from SEA played in an event with XX,000 unique viewers, we'd love it if you sponsor our community as a result". I'd say a common sense response to the second would be - Uhh, perhaps I might just sponsor that player?

[Volition]

This thread is great. Lots of constructive discussion. just a few comments,

1) Exposure - most of the exposure threads involve SEA going to the rest of the world - eg we send glade/tgun/whoever to a tournament and hope he does well to prove we aren't scrubs. It seems we are going over to the otherside of the world to hope that the SEA community gets a benefit. Exposure seems to be common thread from the OP and seems important to most.

2) Funding - as has been said, big money events will get big players, but funding big money events without benefactors is difficult. the problem seems to be finding the money until we have money from other sources to cover this cost (such as a sponsor putting on a weekly open). And bigger funding = more interest = better players = more exposure.

I think that the SEA server serve a role as the English speaking server where the best of Western esports can play the best of KR esports in well run professional tournaments. Ideally, if that became the moniker it would be better than the TL comments now - "scrubs and glade"

How do you reach both of these goals? We dont have the money to pay the Koreans and the big NA stars to play here week in week out, but we cant get the exposure without them.

My Suggestion: We have a fortnightly tournament with a buy-in. Not massive, but the prize pool would be buyins + small amount and split say 60/30/10%. It isnt like poker tournaments are free - who says we cant have a buyin

Why should tournaments be free to play? and if a player is good enough, they would be willing to put their (or their backer or sponsors) money where their mouth is. AND it avoids the problem of pros (whether NA or KR) coming over each week to steal the cash and leaving - the more pros we have the more money that is in the pot.

Also, bigger prizes will have to equal higher exposure, and mroe exposure would equal more interest from others.

Say we made the buyin $20. Imagine we have 5 players and it is realyl small to start. on TL it would be a $100 SEA tournament - seems a little higher than what is out there. and that is a really small tournament also.


Some people will say that this will not be supported or the support will fade after pig/oGsMC wins it for your fourth week in a row. to combat this, i have the following suggestions

1) yes participation will be smaller, but it is $20 a week. And a GM player should surely be able to find a backer for this amount - with an appropriate split of winnings - after all, everyone wants to become a sponsored player - why wouldnt $20 a week from a community member be the appropriate introduction to the stress and pressure that would come with "proper" sponsors. Also, if the $20 wasnt paid, no entry to the tournament. no owing or excuses.
2) until the afternoon of the tournament, we keep the registrations secret. so first round you could have anyone from MC to a bronze league scrub who paid the money for the lulz. and it could have anyone from any server.

This is only a suggestion. i have no idea whether it will work or the details. before you shoot it down all i ask is that you consider whether it would work. getting the trust of the esports community to part with cash each week would be different, but i dont see why it couldnt be done over time.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

[crAzerk]

Really loved the OP, thought you put it considerable effort to word everything in an objective manner.

The 'compromise' that you talked about is actually covered by Frogmite's post above, in that you need both 'Internal' and 'External' events to fuel growth - you can't go without either. I think what we have in place does this pretty well for steady growth, but for a 'breakthrough' we probably need what has been mentioned about sponsored players.

And wow I wonder who that awesome sponsor was! Jofritz again? Heh. The tournament should be named something very 'SEA'-centric to promote our 'brand name'. Some issues remain such as which server should it be played on, time zones for championships etc, but I suppose some sort of compromise can be worked out in the future. Great idea!


EDIT:
The buy-in idea isn't very feasible I think, because I think many (I wanted to put a statistic but was afraid of misquoting it) tournament participants wouldn't want to pay to get into such a frequent tournament.
To quote Peleus who put it well in the OP:

however don’t forget that 85% - 90% of players who join a tournament, realistically, do not have a significant chance of taking it down. Most people join for the competitive spirit, the ability to practice and play against the best, and the small chance of coming out on top

So most participants would be essentially making fortnightly donations without a realistic chance of winning it.
Not to mention many of our regular GM players are still schooling, and don't exactly have a steady income. (One random example I can think of is Venosaur, who is only 13 or something! derpy is a regular tournament participant as well (probably one of the most on the site in fact) and only in his teens )

Of course I could be misjudging the general consensus and who knows, maybe it will work out.

Quick Comments

Volition:

Good post!

[Volition]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

EDIT:
The buy-in idea isn't very feasible I think, because I think many (I wanted to put a statistic but was afraid of misquoting it) tournament participants wouldn't want to pay to get into such a frequent tournament.
To quote Peleus who put it well in the OP:

So most participants would be essentially making fortnightly donations without a realistic chance of winning it.
Not to mention many of our regular GM players are still schooling, and don't exactly have a steady income. (One random example I can think of is Venosaur, who is only 13 or something! derpy is a regular tournament participant as well (probably one of the most on the site in fact) and only in his teens )

Of course I could be misjudging the general consensus and who knows, maybe it will work out.

Thanks Crazerk, it was just an idea.

i am not saying this is for everyone, and it really isn't a community participation event - the idea was to try to get exposure to other servers (whether through offering high GMs from all servers a chance for a good prize) and through increased viewer numbers due to the higher prize pool and potentially fantastic players. Therefore, all that is needed would be say 5-10 SEA players who believe they can mix it with the best in the world, and we're away.

Yes i agree some wouldnt be able to fund it each fortnight. And at the same time, i sort of want to say - bad luck, this tournament just isnt for you. They can always find someone to sponsor you. And it could be a friend or a benevolent sc2sea member ( i would sponsor a GM for this, for me it would be a cheap way of gambling each week).

Just my 2c

EDIT to Peleus:

There are how many players in SEA that want to be pro-gamers. As in, they want to be sponsored and they want to play for a living. Around here we say that Pig Tgun Glade Iaguz etc etc can mix it with the best, why not try to encourage them to come over and try to take our aussie dollars from us?

Also, I agree with what you say about a potentially shrinking player base. But if it is initially successful maybe we could find a sponsor and supplement the prize pool, thereby encouraging more to play, and thereby possibly getting more interest.

It is no different to a sponsored player that gets flown somewhere to play - in both instances there is an initial outlay by the player or the sponsor.

Anyway, it really was just an idea. I wont defend it again - am not an internet warrior. if others like it, rep it (positive or negative is fine, i dont mind.)

All i know is that i would like to watch Pig and Rossi against the Startales on SEA. And best of all, we could get the Startales on our server without costing sc2sea a cent.

[Peleus]

I think after 2-3 runs through the average skill level of participants would be figured out pretty closely, along with who is a regular play and who isn't. Once people figure out that they have a very significant chance of not getting anything out of it I think they'd stop contributing to the tournament, and as a result we'd have a dramatically shrinking player pool after an initial good run.

Saying that, grats on thinking outside the box because it's exactly what we need.

[Paroxysm]

That is one mighty fine write up you have there. I read the majority of it and you are right with every aspect!

I think it is important at this stage to develop our community (internal and external) into one which accepts gaming and eSports in general. It is a reasonably taboo 'addiction' in some circles, however sc2sea (and the majority of members of the SEA region) have worked together to create and endlessly growing eSports scene in the region.

To develop the scene to an extent that America, Europe and Korea frequently advertise, we need to let small groups of 'semi-pro's and pro's' enter some of our tournaments to promote our own region and aid in player improvement. These players will not participate unless they are certain of what they have to achieve, whether it be financing, or personal glory. To try and achieve this goal slightly easier, VOD's and live streams of our top tier players (PiG, mOOnGLaDe, tgun, mafia, iaguz etc.) should also be advertised on websites such as teamliquid, warpprism.com and twitch.tv. This is a surefire way to draw attention to the scene, and is almost certainly a step in the right direction for introducing a quality eSports scene in SEA. I'm almost certain that with people such as Benji, Flamga, Dox, nirvAnA, Eddie, Baka, crazerk, deL myself and the plethora of other hardworking individuals (and let's not forget the beloved participants )who dedicate so much time to SEA eSports through organising tournaments and casting should be able to achieve our goals undoubtedly.

Again, I will reiterate my point, and Peleus':

This website has been formed under the careful, guiding wing of nirvAnA, an eSports enthusiast. All of the people associated with this site (spare a few) have united under the common goal of supporting and furthering eSports in SEA. We must continue to work together to promote the eSports craze to both the internal and external sources in our respective regions of SEA.

I urge you to do what you can to aid in achieving this goal, whether it be by streaming, casting, posting (sensible) SEA related issues on teamliquid and sc reddit. Every single post will assist with getting more and more coverage for our region. At this stage we are but a blip on the minimap of esports. But with time and effort from the entire community we can easily achieve the unthinkable!

Paroxysm


EDIT: Rewording some stuff that didn't quite make sense. Bit tired!

[crAzerk]

I would love to see it work though, I'm a fan of buy-ins ^^

But still,
"Once people figure out that they have a very significant chance of not getting anything out of it I think they'd stop contributing to the tournament, and as a result we'd have a dramatically shrinking player pool after an initial good run"
I think people ALREADY know whether they have a significant chance of not getting anything. For example, I know if I join it's just to donate to the prize pool and not to win. Heck, even for a smaller event like the SG LAN where there was an entry fee, I know I wasn't going to win, but I was just joining for the experience.

For it to work it has to be packaged in a different way from a normal tournament I reckon, as people are already very accustomed to 'free' tournaments like CO, GPD, etc.

I hope you understand I'm not trying to shoot it down, but rather point out limitations so that the original idea can be modified and improve to be a successful one


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

It is a reasonably taboo 'addiction' in some circles

YES This is so annoying! It's frustrating to explain to my mum that I'm 'in a SC2 tournament that pays out MONEY and i can actually win stuff' when her mindset is just that gaming = bad . I wonder how long it'll take for a paradigm shift such that gaming becomes just like any other sport, like say, soccer.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

YES This is so annoying! It's frustrating to explain to my mum that I'm 'in a SC2 tournament that pays out MONEY and i can actually win stuff' when her mindset is just that gaming = bad . I wonder how long it'll take for a paradigm shift such that gaming becomes just like any other sport, like say, soccer.

Fortunately, the Korean gaming scene is doing wonders for this! It took a long time for me to explain to my mum the potential payouts from gaming, and she hasn't really taken a stance against me doing it! As I was saying though, with the Korean, European and American gaming scenes, a lot of exposure has been given not only to Starcraft 2, but also to CoD, Battlefield, Tekken etc. and it is really opening the eyes of the world!

[Rythos]

I think Volition's idea has some merit. "Growth" doesn't necessarily mean just getting more people involved, but also increasing the noteriety of the game. There are already a few tournaments happening around the place that involve a lot of players, maybe the SEA scene needs an event with a little more prestige to get people's attention.

To be perfectly honest, I don't tune into the SEA event streams very often. Sometimes I just don't recognise many of the players, sometimes there's another event I'd rather watch, sometimes they go on for a bit long and I get bored etc. I am not saying there is something wrong with current events that needs to change, merely pointing out how one ignorant consumer perceives them. What I am saying, however, is that if there was a small, elite tournament with only a handful of the top players competing, that is something I would set aside time in my schedule to watch.

Quick Comments

Volition:

And you get rid of the 85-95% that cant win by making them pay to join!

[PiG]

w00t epic!

[Peleus]

Also don't forget it doesn't necessarily need to be a tournament, anything that increases exposure is a good thing.

For example, someone like Liquid'Ret get's thousands of viewers when he streams. If we could convince him, or any of the other big streamers to do a showmatch along the lines of Liquid'Ret vs SEA it would be awesome.

BO9 Series, Ret vs our top players. Max he would need to play is 9 games which isn't anything to strenuous. Doesn't need to be a tournament with a huge prize pool, but I'm sure something like this would be a great chance for exposure and draw in the viewers. Great for Ret to (or whoever is a name willing to do this) as they get great exposure also.

Possibly could get away without it costing anything - perhaps appealing to their sense of 'eSports'.

[xpaperclip]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Liquid'Ret vs SEA

Like http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=183209 was?

[Peleus]

rofl, that's a classic, guess my idea was already thought of. Never knew that occured, also of all the people I could have picked it happened to be ret also, classic haha.

[crAzerk]

Lol Peleus! The moment i read what you said I thought back about the Ret show match haha. I recall Yoon being the only one taking a game off him.
Would definitely love to see another such show match ^^

[breadfan]

I think the buy in idea is a great one - every major tournament out there you have to pay to register (MLG is $70, for example). I think the issue that crAzerk points out if if it's every second week - you take some of the lustre of a one off event away when you do it every 2nd week - it becomes just another weekly tourney.

I think less frequent, and bigger events are the way to go. And perhaps the community could sponsor a few top invites - why make HuK pay to play in the event when him being there will crank up the exposure so much?

I may also be dreaming, but to be honest I would love to see one big SEA tournament at some point in the year, that is generally attended by all of the SEA's top talent. Imagine the ACL finals at the end of the year, but with participants travelling from NZ, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, the Phillipines, etc

Getting everyone under one roof for a weekend tournament might be the sort of thing we could justify bringing big names to, if it's going to be more effective than going to them

However, I am still absolutely of the opinion that more SEA players need to be playing overseas. There are some huge tournaments, and they are huge for a reason. It's the ideal stage for one of our brightest stars to go over and play out of his skin and end up playing vs Idra in the finals.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Lol Peleus! The moment i read what you said I thought back about the Ret show match haha. I recall Yoon being the only one taking a game off him.
Would definitely love to see another such show match ^^

If I recall correctly Yoon won that game cause Lost Temple was imba for Terran. He got a/some tanks on that ledge and Ret just left.

[Peleus]

Would people be pissed if I felt out some top players to see if they were interested in this? (i.e. Col.Catz or something) or would people prefer it if official admins sorted it out?

[Cordance]

Peleus. The main reasons most of the older tourneys are for SEA residents is because quite literally it was our money going into the prize pool. Community donations supplied by people who felt they could or should donate for the entertainment. Now we are actually getting some non individual funds with which to use for tournaments we are opening up more "world" competitions. To put it simply the community of SEA was not willing to gather money that was going to leave our community as we have small enough resources to draw on already.

The main point is its the sponsor who picks their audience up until recently most of the prize money has come from single people. These people are from SEA they are donating too SC2SEA.com because they like what comes from SC2SEA.com. They where not donating to SC2SEA because they wanted to see Koreans or North Americans play thats why they where buying Gomtv/MLG tickets. Times are changing as company sponsors arrive but we want to keep our community what made it great, which is a close nit helpful community hence why we have our internal and external competitions.

Probably another post in itself ...

+ [sponsorship ...] +

The other issue is most SEA companies are not global and based out of SEA. They are based else where with an SEA branch. A lot of companies in SEA dont even reach the whole SEA market given we are split into so many nations with mostly small populations. The SEA companies are only interested in advertising to SEA people (or their own nation) which is the smaller percentage when it comes to the cast of "world event"
When working out if advertisement(sponsorship) was worth the cost they will look at clients and target audience. Toy commercials aim at children shows. Car commercials aim at Car racing. What we as a gaming community should look at is what do we spend our money on. Gaming peripherals (mice/keyboards) is one hence why TTesports is willing to invest in the market. Other things we should be looking at trying to milk sponsors out of are things like tablets/mobile phones, internet providers even single player game market (most SC2 plays do touch other games, I use too until I took an arrow to the knee). We need to look at more global advertising and going why not ask for 1000 bucks which isnt even a blip on the radar for a major company advertisement budget (I had no idea who FXO where till they started events is a prime example).

Thats my donation to this thread. Now no one is stopping people from donating to SEA and asking for global competition like nirvAnA just had happen. Get out there and get sponsors or become one yourself.

[Cordance]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Would people be pissed if I felt out some top players to see if they were interested in this? (i.e. Col.Catz or something) or would people prefer it if official admins sorted it out?

I speak from past events, generally speaking if you present an idea to the website and people like it. Then you are able to make it happen with minimal extra load on the admins of the site they are more than happy to let you run with your idea. Try not to make it clash with anything already existing.

[QEDMazaire]

The Scene needs major sponsor/money. What SEA lacks is a big sponsor, you look at most major tournaments. They have loads of money running though, the great professional streams and a well setup and run tournament. I love the fact that we have a community run and paid for tournaments but if we want to get ourselves known on the big stage, we are defiantly going to have to go very commercial.

Needs a big bi annual tournament. open invite style. I mean if there was one run in a major city (alternating) I would consider travelling as far as Brisbane or Melbourne (from Canberra) provided it was worth my time.

I just have no idea who would organise such a thing, its something i feel a community can't do it without business investment/creation of business. Take MLG for example the make all of their money running a tour of the USA inviting the very best players from around the world to gain a big viewer audience.

tl;dr: totally viable but its going to have to turn into a business and its not something a community can sustain form a charitable point of view.

[Peleus]

Mazaire -
I think big tournaments are great, lead to lots of exposure, and everyone wins. As you point out however they also require lots of resources, sponsors time and effort to undertake. As a result a lot of the time they aren't really feasible (although we certainly HAVE had them, i.e. Dox cup) in the SEA scene's situation. Besides that fact, they are great at creating a big splash for 2-3 weeks, however it doesn't do huge amounts for our community for the rest of the year when the hype dies down.

As a result, I suppose one of the things focused on in this thread is idea's floating around of how we can get high viewer streams on a semi regular basis without dumping a heap of money into prizes. This can lead to the end goal of big tournaments, but we need to figure out the multiple steps in between to do it.

It's a tough question, and I think we'll need originality and something different to set ourselves apart, but if we wish to go it's something we should aim for.

I.e. An idea to throw around is the popularity of TL Attacks, where they have a guest star doing different things. Different showmatches with different personalities against SEA superstars each week would be pretty cool, and something different from the regular tournaments that take place quite often.

[Gnemest]

Very nice write up. Having read this, I will do try even harder to get more friends to play SC2, give support to our regional heroes and what not! GO SEA! GO sc2sea.com!

[QEDMazaire]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Mazaire -
I think big tournaments are great, lead to lots of exposure, and everyone wins. As you point out however they also require lots of resources, sponsors time and effort to undertake. As a result a lot of the time they aren't really feasible (although we certainly HAVE had them, i.e. Dox cup) in the SEA scene's situation. Besides that fact, they are great at creating a big splash for 2-3 weeks, however it doesn't do huge amounts for our community for the rest of the year when the hype dies down.

As a result, I suppose one of the things focused on in this thread is idea's floating around of how we can get high viewer streams on a semi regular basis without dumping a heap of money into prizes. This can lead to the end goal of big tournaments, but we need to figure out the multiple steps in between to do it.

It's a tough question, and I think we'll need originality and something different to set ourselves apart, but if we wish to go it's something we should aim for.

I.e. An idea to throw around is the popularity of TL Attacks, where they have a guest star doing different things. Different showmatches with different personalities against SEA superstars each week would be pretty cool, and something different from the regular tournaments that take place quite often.

just as a question (as i don't know) What major streamed LANs have there been that have been held in SEA? and what was the initial prize pool? who sponsored the tournament?

Because there are heaps of tournaments that have a very boring format, its just that it is well marketed with smart people behind the scenes. I would love to see another format like the IPL (was it IEM?) fight club with sheth and a few other pros duke-ing it out for hours at a time. i think originality will set us apart. but you can have all the creativity in the world, its just if its not well promoted especially in SEA (since we are such a small market) it can quite easily be a very unrewarding experience.

Thats just my two cents. i guess i think form this angle as i have worked in sales for the majority of my career

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Mazaire

just as a question (as i don't know) What major streamed LANs have there been that have been held in SEA? and what was the initial prize pool? who sponsored the tournament?

LANs? None that I'm aware of. As far as I know the biggest tournament for SEA has been the Dox Cup #2 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283384) but I'm no expert on the subject and I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Paroxysm]

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies such as EB Games, FragLabs, Drop Bear Gamin, Red Bull and V (just to name a few) that could potentially profit from having such a stance towards sponsoring the SEA gaming scene?

[xpaperclip]

I think any attempt at trying to replicate the scale of the competitive NA scene in one big go here is doomed to failure, as the size market is simply too small and much too geographically separated (a comparatively small player base spread across a great number of timezones and countries!). We also have nowhere near the commercial power.

So, for the scene to grow, smaller steps are necessary, and to do that of course we need to develop local players, as well as increase international interest and player notability.

+ [Developing local players] +

Developing local players
'Internal events' of course do the first, and we already have a healthy number of these. However, when the Koreans started joining CO and Masters Cup, a simliar argument was raised as to whether or not this was beneficial.

On one side was the argument that SEA wasn't good enough to compete with them and essentially they were just draining resources that local pros could be using to support themselves. On the other hand, bringing in talent from elsewhere forces the local standard to go up.

The addition of the SEA server activity requirement coupled with the interleaving of residency-restricted and open tournaments I think is a healthy mix, the server is improved by the presence of outside talent, but the prizepool is still somewhat protected.

From this perspective, I don't know if there is a whole lot more that can be done, apart from more sponsorship. Which of course, is difficult to achieve without international interest. I feel the local base is too small to rely on just local interest. The return on sponsorship is eyes, and there just aren't enough of them here.

+ [Developing international interest] +

Developing international interest
The tough one. SEA has a reputation for being the worst server and being talentless. Glade advancing to the playoffs at WCG was great, but unfortunately, it was only Glade. SEA desparately needs to have another player have a breakout performance on the international stage*. Unfortunately, we don't appear to have the sponsorship capability to send players out. The fact that all 8 potential qualifiers for IEM Kiev turned down the spot is a really sad situation.

* Tastosis praising Rossi at IPL4 Pacific Qualifiers was another instance which could have been really good for SEA if not for all the other stuff that happened there.

Which means we have to take smaller steps and develop interest in our scene online, by way of streamed events. What sucks for SEA is that our timezone is so different from where most of the population is, PLUS we overlap with Korea which means GSL gets in the way. People are going to stay up and watch GSL but not some SEA event they have never heard of.

When SEACL was announced and we had the rigmarole of the format discussion, the what is a team discussion, etc., I said in chat that I thought the problem was the goal was unclear as to whether the event was designed to (i) showcase SEA to the world, (a) develop the community, (1) develop the pro-scene, and in what order of priority (hence why I used different numbering schemes for each item).

Showcasing SEA to the world is a great idea but is extremely hard. It's pretty obvious that I subscribe to the idea that TL is the centre of all things SC in the English-speaking world, and the majority of drop-in viewership comes from the featured streamers list. There is also quite a bit of empirical evidence to support this.

Masters Cup was the event which convinced me this was the case. By being the only active event, people dropped in because there was nothing else on, and they stayed! The fact that Dox Cup 2 lost its TL event for the championship bracket was a huge shame.

This is the reason why I feel some strategic scheduling is needed for some of the showcase events to get viewers in. Yes, of course we have to make it work with the locals first since the vast majority of players are part-time and all the admins are volunteers who do a great job for basically nothing (and sometimes less) in return. However, we may be able to use our timezone disadvantage to fill a niche and build it from there.

+ [Aside: a note about LANs] +

Aside: a note about LANs
I feel having a face to go with the ID is invaluable in improving recognition, and makes the connection to the players much more real. LANs of course are meant to make that happen.

However, while I'm extremely excited about what ACL is going to show us this year, so far, "LAN" (in Australia at least) has more or less meant "LAN cafe". Not exactly the most interesting thing to look at. Coupled with the crappy infrastructure which makes streaming difficult if not impossible, LANs have not really been the best events to show off SEA so far.

tl;dr, Main new point: I think we need to be more strategic with scheduling to get more international interest before we can think about large-scale sponsorship.

Quick Comments

Volition:

great thoughts! Filling a niche is something to consider!

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies such as EB Games, FragLabs, Drop Bear Gamin, Red Bull and V (just to name a few) that could potentially profit from having such a stance towards sponsoring the SEA gaming scene?

Not sure that seeking sponsors is necessarily the right move for now. I mean we have sponsors, and to be honest I think what we have is perfect for where we are at this point in time.

You don't fuel growth through sponsors - use growth to gain sponsors. I am totally hoping that one day a lot of businesses are going to want to get involved in eSports through sponsorship, but it's not the magic bullet or whatever. That's stage 2.

Not to mention, it's still early days for individually sponsored SEA players. Look at PiG. He hasn't even had time to play in a major tournament yet under his sponsor banner. (Not to put pressure on him, or anyone else like that) there's probably a bit interest in how this sort of endeavor turns out. Rather than go crazy hunting sponsors, we should support the ones we have and make sure that instead of having them all fighting over the current field, we develop it into something much larger, where there is room for these other sponsors

[Paroxysm]

Sorry for the poor explanation, what I meant was:

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies that could potentially profit from having an impact on the development of the eSports scene, and eventually taking upon a much larger role in the scene.

For instance, a $100 tournament sponsor through sc2sea, or through cityhunter or elysium gaming cafe. This will all steamroll into a much larger phenomenon, and fuel interest in the community. I don't mean sponsors that will 'instantly' make the scene big. But I hope that helps to clarify what I was meaning.

[Eddie]

Lot of good discussion and creative ideas in this thread!

Growing the SEA sc2 and esports in general is a passion of mine, and i agree with both paths of thought.

We need events for our own players to prove themselves against each other, and we need events where our top players, or an up and comer, can show their stuff against world class players, and gain greater exposure for themselves, and SEA in general.

This is what we are trying to do with the Masters Cup. Non SEA players can join 1/3 months.

Our first 'open' event since the restructure is actually next Sunday. Uncertain of the best way to proceed, set a cap on the number of foreigners, unlimited numbers join, split money between SEA/Other, standard 1/2/3, etc. We'll try and work through it to find the best solution for all. We also realise that money going outside of SEA might not align with our sponsors, yet as i stated above, i believe it is a path we must take sometimes to gain or try for that extra exposure.

[breadfan]

Maybe we need to formalise some of this stuff for community action.

There are so many paths to take. Maybe we need to get a few people working on all the different ideas, present them to the community and people can choose what sort of priorities they want in place

[Peleus]

.... or even if it isn't a community based decision (I respect that admins sponsors etc have put in a lot more time towards this site than members, which isn't disrespectful at all to anyone) and an admin decision then announce what it is so we can help out

One request that I think would be pretty easy to implement is a clean symbol or marking in the upcoming events listing that indicates whether it's a SEA only event or an open event (perhaps an Australia flag icon on SEA only, Globe icon on open events - and yes Australian flag cause we're the best..... ) Seriously though that would at least make it nice and easy for everyone to identify which events have what entry requirements.

As an extra special request I personally think it's a little busy with signup / info links in there also, would love for it to be a little more like TL's where it's just a simple list with a date next to it (instead of hours until) and the icon discussed above (http://imgur.com/Al9c9). The link can contain all the info needed, but hey I don't want to request changes to everything :P Icon would be a cool start.

[Paroxysm]

Perhaps if we used a logo of the SEAhorse?

[breadfan]

Yeah don't get into the trap of thinking that SEA = Australia Peleus

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by breadfan

Yeah don't get into the trap of thinking that SEA = Australia Peleus

Of course SEA = Australia, all the good players are here. Just kidding, it can be a seahorse whatever, I'm well aware huge amounts of players are SG / NZ etc, just poking some fun.