[Peleus]

Warning: Long and I'm sorry I haven't had time to proof read everything, I'll try and go back and fix any errors tonight.

Introduction

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Almost everyone on this site is an eSports fan. We’ve come together with a common goal, and that’s to share our passion for SC2. I think it would also be fair to say that almost everyone shares in the interest and benefits that are gained by SC2 becoming a larger eSport within the SEA sphere, be it through increased tournaments, sponsorship and prizes, more active people on the SEA server leading to higher skill levels overall. It’s also worth mentioning that countless people (i.e. Nivarna, Benji, Dox, so many others) are working extremely hard at making this into a reality. I’m posting this thread not as a complaint about any particular direction that the community is going in, but in the hopes of generating a robust discussion in how the community sees the eSports scene growing, some of the different philosophies out there currently, and what we all want from the future.

I’ll do my best to remain unbiased and present some pro’s and con’s of different thinking, but as with everything my opinions will probably come through in what I’m saying. This isn’t to say I’m right and everyone else is wrong, it’s a launching pad for further discussion about the topic. Let’s look at some of the important things.

Player Pool

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If we want growth, it must be fuelled from a source. I can think of a few different area’s, these include –

a) People within the SEA sphere who currently do not play SC2 at all
b) People within the SEA sphere who currently play SC2, but do so on alternate ladders (i.e. NA / KR) for whatever reasons
c) People external to the SEA sphere who currently play SC2

If participation, growth, etc is to improve, almost inevitably it must come from one of these sources. Our goal then should be how best can we attract these people? I’ll deal with each one in turn.

People within the SEA sphere who currently do not play SC2 at all.

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Believe it or not, I don’t see this category of people as a huge source of growth, or more to the point, one that we can control as much as the other two. The reasoning for this is getting exposure to the market. Blizzard, a company with millions of dollars in marketing potential is actively trying to get people to play SC2, resources that we obviously do not have. In terms of appealing to this demographic, I doubt we could put anywhere near as much of a dent as what Blizzard can. Alternatively, several of our main abilities to convey the message of sc2sea.com such as streaming, tournaments, etc is only likely to appeal to the demographic that is already playing SC2.

What we can do however is within our own personal lives use word of mouth to talk about SC2, and encourage friends and family to give it a go, share out trial keys, show people the starter edition etc.

Summary: Perhaps not a large area for growth as some may think, can be improved through word of mouth, starter edition awareness etc.

People within the SEA sphere who currently play SC2, but do so on alternate ladders for whatever reason

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In my opinion this is one of the bigger areas for growth within our own community. Residing in the SEA sphere means that latency should not be as much of a problem and they have the opportunity with their account to play here if they wish. From this, we must examine why they are playing on these different ladders. I can personally think of three reasons, but I’d be interested to hear from the community their thoughts. Firstly it comes down to there is more people playing, particularly on NA, and therefore quicker to find games and be matched against new people. I don’t see a huge way we can influence this, as it’s a bit of a chicken / egg scenario, with players not coming back until more play, but more won’t play until they come back etc. It’s interesting to note however that if we get more playing on SEA through some influences (more on this later) it may continue to exponentially grow through increased popularity.

The second reason I can think of, or have been exposed to, is the statement of wanting to play with better players, or at higher skill levels. I’m not completely convinced there is merit to this until you’re high GM, as blizzard will match you against appropriate opponents regardless of your skill, but never the less that is a common reason I see, particularly for KR ladder. In the SEA community I think we can attract more people by raising the perceived skill level of our ladder, and sc2sea.com definitely has the ability to do this. A perhaps controversial position which I know has been discussed in the past (and most likely again here) is the attraction of pro’s to our tournaments, to see our best competing with the likes of Korean professionals, or international ‘stars’ as we saw in the Dox Cup. I think this gives a huge boost to the perceived skill level of our community, especially when ‘our’ best are holding their own against foreigners.

Thirdly I see ‘eFame’ coming into play with some sections of the community. The western SC2 culture currently largely resides around NA (to a slightly lesser extend EU) and many of the American pro players. A lot of individuals enjoy the idea that they are playing on the same ladder as these top players, and aspire to be matched against them at some point (completely separate from how realistic it is). Ideally to combat this we would wish to develop our own big names, which “we’ve” (as in they did all the work) done with tgun and moonglade. Once more my opinion in how we can get more great players like this is to have the most competitive environment we can on the SEA server. If we don’t wish to take ourselves as seriously as possible with our competitions, then I don’t think the rest of the SC2 world will take us seriously either.

Summary: I think the best way to attract SC2 players currently on other ladders would be to increase the perceived skill level of our ladder, both through having big names compete here, and also through developing our own stars. Once more in my opinion the best way to do that is to create the most competitive environment available on SEA. Looking at KR, I think it’s fair to say that great players come out of very competitive environments.

People external to the SEA sphere who currently play SC2

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Similar to the first playing group, I don’t think there is a huge potential for growth here, but there is definitely some. If we can foster a community with great, well run tournaments to attract players there is every chance that new friendships will be formed, and people will wish to play here more often. Down the track if we can manage to create more big name players and SEA server awareness we may draw people in, however honestly I think it’s an uphill battle. I don’t have much to say on this demographic myself, but I’d be interested in what the community thinks about how we can draw more people in.

Summary: I can’t see a huge amount of growth here, but I’m interested in what ideas the community has in how we can attract more people from external servers. I think a vibrant eSports scene here may do it, but it’s more of a long term goal than immediate changes we can make.

Money / Tournaments

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Most likely the area that’s going to cause the most discussion, and where I see the most split opinions in our community at the moment. Prize money, sponsors and tournaments have arguably been one of the cornerstones that sc2sea.com is centred on, with it being the hub of all the events going on in the SEA server. I know I personally came across the site looking for tournament information, and discovered the community and future clan there. Currently though we’ve seen two main trains of thought about tournament eligibility, prize money and what’s best for the SEA eSports scene. In the first section I’ll try and detail both sides as fairly as possible before offering my opinion on the situation. It can be largely broken up into “Keep it in the SEA community” and “Let anyone who wants to join, join”.

Keep it in the SEA community

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Probably the most predominate train of thought in sc2sea at the moment is to by and large keep the majority of tournaments centred on a SEA resident / SEA licence eligibility requirement. The advantages are that this allows SEA players to fight it out amongst our own community with the best SEA player winning and taking home the prize. Top SEA players gain some monetary support through tournament winnings, and increased standing within our own community. For example many of the xGKing members, moonglade, tgun, etc have high regard, not only due to their ladder performance but also due to their tournament success. Arguably it can also motivate these players to enter into tournaments and compete more often, as there is not a dramatic step between our top players vs some KR pro’s who have also entered, where you need to beat a Startales member to receive prize money.

Let anyone who wants to join, join

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(Disclaimer: I mainly subscribe to this view, bias may come through) An alternative put forward by a lot of players is let almost anyone who wants to play join with our tournaments, and let the best man win. Arguably we can gain increased exposure to the SEA sphere through having bigger names within the external community join and play with us, and also it looks even better on the world stage when our top players can take on and defeat these established names.

Opinion

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The advantages were put forward for both options, but there are definite disadvantages also. Keeping it in the SEA community can truly mean that we’re not going to be considered world class, and in my opinion that means we’re not going to have as much potential for growth in the future, especially when considering the player pool discussions put forward earlier. On the flip side letting anyone join can lead to an increase in “hit and runs” where a top pro simply comes in, takes the prize money and leaves only to be seen again at the next tournament.

In my opinion, we can do a few different things that may result in a type of compromise, and I want to discuss a few of the perceived advantages of the “Keep it in the SEA community” train of thought. Often I see the idea thrown around that letting our pro’s win money encourages them to play and grows eSports in SEA. I personally don’t see how it actually does anything other than a nice boost to the bank account of those players. That’s no disrespect to them, I’m not saying that they have ill intentions by winning or anything of the sought; I’m simply saying I don’t believe it grows eSports either. The sums of money we’re talking about aren’t enough to consistently send players off overseas, and live off the income to peruse SC2 careers. They are largely very generously given but relatively small amounts that say congratulations you get an awesome prize for being the best person on the day. If you truly want to support our top players then I think sponsorship directly to them is infinitely more effective, and the prizes are simply something we can all have fun playing for, not necessarily a driver for growth. I’m unaware of any SEA player who makes the majority of their income of sc2sea.com tournaments and peruses an SC2 career from it, although I’m happy to be corrected.

As a result, I think the idea of “Keeping it in the community” is a nice thought, and I’m glad to see SEA players capable of getting prizes, but I don’t think it has a huge growth effect either way. Along the same lines, many people have said that it’s a disincentive to play if KR pro’s are also playing, because you’re suddenly forced to beat a member of Startales (or whoever else joins) to gain some prize money. Yes, I can see how that is perceived as a negative, however don’t forget that 85% - 90% of players who join a tournament, realistically, do not have a significant chance of taking it down. Most people join for the competitive spirit, the ability to practice and play against the best, and the small chance of coming out on top. I can assure you that I, and many others, have as much chance of beating moonglade as I do of beating some KR pro, that is to say very little. That doesn’t mean I don’t wish to participate in a tournament, because the money isn’t, and I don’t think should be the motivator. It’s simply a bonus at the end if we’re lucky enough. What we’re talking about honestly is a difference in outcomes for a small percentage of high level players in the community who commonly win tournaments not winning as much any more.

So what do we get out of this? Even if its only a small percentage of high level SEA players affected, why shouldn’t it still go to them rather than KR pro’s? Well, to answer that I think we go back to the beginning, and what we need to do with our player pool to grow the SEA server. Once more it’s my opinion but we need to be competing with these people to grow the SEA eSports scene. We need to demonstrate to a world audience that the SEA scene is capable of hosting top level competition. Arguably (and I imagine a little controversially) I’d almost say that if KR pro’s came over, and played in tournaments while being watched by thousands of people (and being part of what attracted them) then it’s almost worth the prize money for the sake of growth. With growth being the primary concern, more money and more sponsors will come, giving even more opportunities for SEA only side tournaments in the future if that’s what’s wished.

Compromise

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Realistically though I don’t think either hardline approach would be successful, so perhaps we need to look as a community at idea’s we may be able to come up with to satisfy both. For example we could have more clearly tagged foreigner / SEA only listings on a master list of tournaments somewhere. We could have prize money allocated as 1st / 2nd / 3rd and top placing SEA player, allowing the best of both worlds with a great competition being held, but the top SEA players still get a share. I think we could definitely come up with many options if we all sat down and discussed it, which hopefully this thread would allow. As I’ve discussed before whatever the decision however I think there needs to be clear yes / no eligibility criteria that anyone can find out about and determine if they are allowed to join without asking anyone.

Realistically I also know there is an X-factor in this discussion. The bulk of sc2sea’s prize money comes from sponsors, so what they desire will have a large impact on the formats and eligibility of each tournament. Although we may not be able to directly control their decisions, having a clear community consensus about what we desire could certainly go a long way in pointing them in the right direction.

Conclusion

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A lot of people will read this, and think it’s pretty much full of crap. No worries, all I ask is instead of attacking any opinions put forward your own in a constructive way, and if we disagree we’ll talk about it. I believe growth should be the main focus of the SEA community if we wish to improve eSports here. This may lead to more tournaments, more prize money, more sponsorship and benefits to the community. Looking at avenue for growth I think the most realistic path is to attract more high profile events and players to the SEA server, and sc2sea.com’s best role in that would be through hosting higher level competitions to increase our exposure. I also believe that a constant “SEA Only” approach may strengthen the bonds within the SEA community, but doesn’t necessarily do much in terms of growing it.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly want to contribute to this community which I think is fantastic and I want to see eSports in SEA grow. I think having honest and open discussions amongst the community is the best way to facilitate this.

So here are my challenges to everyone reading this;

• How do you think eSports in SEA can grow?
• What role do you see sc2sea.com playing in this development?
• How can we attract more players to the server?
• Should our tournaments include foreign players?
• What do you think we should change, if anything?

The most important thing to take away though is that we need to discuss as a community how we want to go about growing eSports. It's a hundred times more effective to have a clear goal and a plan to achieve it, rather than simply having the goal itself. How are we going to grow eSports?

Quick Comments

	FSBenAD:
	breadfan:	Kudos to the effort you put into this
	ToRXypha:	Great write up
	freaky_beeky:	Interesting read and interesting analysis
	asdfSchnitzel:
	:	VERY well written! Good job!
	Zepph:	good read :)
	Gnemest:
	TCPKiaSu:
	mGGSouth:

[ROOTPetraeus]

Thats an amazing write up. I confess, I haven't read everything but I will at a later date.
Great work, Peleus.

[Mayo]

When you say 'eSports' are you meaning just SC2, eSports as in PC gaming or eSports as PC/Console?

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Mayo

When you say 'eSports' are you meaning just SC2, eSports as in PC gaming or eSports as PC/Console?

To be fair in this context is primarily the SC2 scene, however some aspects may be applicable to other games / communities. Growing SC2 may be a more accurate title, however I also take eSports to imply the competitive nature which I think the post focuses on a lot.

[Loach]

Nice write up

[x5_dot]

So far, from what I've seen some tournaments are exclusively for SEA players whilst others have been opened up to everyone else. I think it comes down to how each tournament is set up and what their goals are.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	+100
	Bash:
	Mayo:
	TAriiChard:

[FSBenAD]

Excellent write up Peleus.

I myself have played mostly on the NA server in the last few months. I switched because I wanted to play against or with my work mates in our sister studios in the US. We have had a few inter office tournaments for fun etc.

As I don't have a lot of time to play, I dont ladder in both servers and since I wanted to know if they were online I always jumped on the NA one, since they don't have access to ours.

I'm not sure how to solve this at all.. I mean I guess if I was logged into to SEA and I could see the status of my NA friends, it might make me more motivated to ladder 1v1 on SEA, as I could just login to NA when I wanted to play with them.

I'm not sure if this is helpful in any way since I'm a casual player

[|Erasmus|]

Going to try and keep this short, but I think Dox is one of the ones who got it right with the Dox cup. Large SEA event, and a small group of pros (some Korean, some from elsewhere internationally).

When you open up a tournament to -anyone- the number of koreans signing up is sort of guaranteeing them a win. I agree that the top 20 or so players on SEA can keep up with the level of koreans we are seeing join our events at this point, but the Koreans are still slightly favoured.

When it's only 2-3 koreans, it's still quite feasible for the SEA players to take them down and make deep runs/win tournaments. That all changes once there are a certain number of them though.

It kind of irks me to see a bit of anti-korean bias taking hold and seemingly growing stronger, we do need to provide some environment for our players to work up to that level with some kind of prize support. Which is what SEA is, really. It's the minor leagues. Anyone from SEA can also play on NA, and compete with the pros there, which is the next step up (and see results like tguns 3rd place (don't get too angry if im slightly off there, please) finish in a TL Open, or Targa qualifying for NASL).

So it makes sense to keep these tournaments about where they are. The SEA tournaments are where you make a name beating moonglade/tgun/iaguz/etc. Then you can go find some foreign pros to beat up on. That doesn't mean we can't have some foreign talent spicing up these tournaments, but having the server dominated by people logging in once a week for a bit of quick cash is not going to help our scene in the long run.

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	I like.
	breadfan:	well said
	Bash:	Well put.

[Apth]

Increase our support for sponsored players.

More sponsored players = more SEA visibility in international tournaments.
To get more sponsored players, we need to persuade companies that it's a good idea to sponsor players.

Watch player streams, get coaching, buy merch, tweet @ their sponsors, voice your support on the forums or in the chatbox. Tell your friends about this baller dude named PiG who smashes nerds whilst displaying a healthy amount of skin on stream.

There is a metric f**kton of SEA players who would kick ass on the international stage, given the chance. Get behind the players who are already representing SEA, and companies will get behind the community.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	:)
	nirvAnA:
	breadfan:	agree
	Bash:
	ToRXypha:
	Asrathiel:	Excellent points

[Bash]

This discussion happened a few months ago with The masters cup (Atleast i think it was the masters cup)
The solution that the admins & co came up with was let Anyone compete in every 3rd or so comp, personally i believe that system works fine, but as not every competition is a regular thing, it really comes down to money, more money allows for even more of a mixture between the two types.

I think the solution would be to have MORE competititons, therefore having moe local ones, and allowing another "Tier" if you will, of "Open" competition where we get to see our best play it out against the best from the world, but of course that means we'd need more money so as to have a prizepool (& to even run these tournaments)

its a tough one, because alot of these people only appear when theres significant prize money to be had, which puts the SEA players at a disadvantage, most arent full-time, and cant GO full-time without money, and these competitions bring in money through sponsorships + prize winnings.


So to me, the solution thats already in place is perfectly fine, they can compete in some competitions, and those competitions will be clearly labelled, but we need "Local only" events to grow & Encourage people.

/my2cents.

[nirvAnA]

Im with what Apth said, increasing the support of sponsored players. And I think in order to do that we have to focus on growing the player base. Simply put, the more starcraft players the more awareness, the more keen sponsors will be as they get more exposure and the more money they will be willing to spend on players. And when sponsors step in to back players, the players have the confidence to go full time to take their level to the next game. Others players are always going to be just half committed and then its hard to compete with the rest of the world or have any semblance of eSports.

I mean look at how much tgun improved when FXO took him on, and if we have like 20 FXOs sponsoring people SEA would be so much more developed now or at least more recognised in the sc2 world but now theres not many viewers/players so sponsors have no incentive to do that. So get your friends to play sc2! Spread the word! I guess thats why we are focusing on just the SEA scene instead of opening registration to the whole world for our tournaments, it also gives more incentive to local sponsors. Its a tricky spot.

[Mayo]

Apth knows what he's talking about

Who needs to buy an EG shirt? We need PiG singlets and xG hoodies!

Quick Comments

	Apth:	I will buy both of those things. No really man, get me a PiG singlet.
	asdfSchnitzel:	All your singlets and hoodies are belong to us

[breadfan]

I agree with pretty much everything so far. On thing stood out - getting our talent playing in overseas events.

Maybe we could have a community initiative where people could donate to help send people overseas? I mean, I don't want to compromise what we have at home, but I think it is important to send people over to represent us overseas wherever possible, even if through the open bracket.

We definitely have some guys who would make a name for themselves in MLG, for example

It's one thing to cry out for sponsors, but from a business perspective, I don't think we can blame sponsors for hesitating. They need to see some sort of return, after all. You need companies with a presence right around SEA for the most part, not just operating in one country.

[mOOnGLaDe]

yay i wanna be sponsored

Quick Comments

	Asrathiel:	I'll sponsor you when I win lotto ^_^
	NDG.Stitch:	um. xGKingMG? or TtMG?

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by breadfan

Maybe we could have a community initiative where people could donate to help send people overseas? I mean, I don't want to compromise what we have at home, but I think it is important to send people over to represent us overseas wherever possible, even if through the open bracket.

4seasonsgaming (Quake community) raised over $1000 to send some Aussie guys to Quake Con, I'm sure if we opened up a donation or a portal to sell merch etc, would be easier.

I will look into getting some PiG merch

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	how about pig hats?
	asdfSchnitzel:	We demand pig hats!

[Apth]

Originally Posted by Mayo

I will look into getting some PiG merch

Benji! Xeria merch! gogogogogo

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

Guuuuu

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Apth

Benji! Xeria merch! gogogogogo

Iaguz Axes, Mafia Drone Plushies, JazBas Angry Korean Dolls anyone?

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	I would buy this stuff
	asdfSchnitzel:	All your merch are belong to me

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Mayo

4seasonsgaming (Quake community) raised over $1000 to send some Aussie guys to Quake Con, I'm sure if we opened up a donation or a portal to sell merch etc, would be easier.

I will look into getting some PiG merch

We could pick out some target events to send players to. Decide if we want to send 1 player to every event or send a few guys to every 2nd or 3rd. I think this is where someone like Dox should be involved!

As for merch, shirts are always good, mouse pads (!) are often overlooked.

[Peleus]

Clearly I've said well and truly my piece in the OP, but I agree largely with what most people are saying. One thing I think it's worth focusing on is the whole growth vs sponsorship thing. I think we can all agree that more sponsorship leads to more exposure, more exposure leads to more growth, and it's a increasing cycle.

So out of that cycle, we have to look at what we can influence without sponsor support (although we have a few great ones at the moment!)

The crux of the post comes down to how can we best influence growth. IMO prizes, tournaments, and the current standing is good for supporting our current crop of players, but not necessarily the best setup for growth. IMO to get growth we need to attract bigger and better players to our already regular events.

This will have the short term effect of decreasing the direct support to our established players, who will miss out on more prize money, but most likely have the effect of growing the scene through increased exposure / desire to watch events from the outside population. Through growing the scene we can then gain more sponsorship to directly support those players who aren't getting as much prize money, while also increasing the general skill level and competitiveness of the tournaments.

I see it as short term pain for long term gain, and I think the current for is great at maintaining the status quo, but we probably won't grow leaps and bounds from it.

Then again, that's what we're here to discuss.

[ToRXypha]

I really like the idea of picking an event and opening up a donation to sponsor getting a player there, have more and more SEA players go to international events will give a great deal of exposure and get attention, especially if a sea player comes out on top.