[nirvAnA]

SC2SEA's Official Stance on Map Hackers

1. Banned for all SC2SEA tournaments for a period of 6 months.
2. Community work aka "good behavior" introduces the possibility of "parole" which will reduce the sentence by 1-3 months.
3. They will still be allowed to participate in the forums as that will be necessary for their community work.
4. Repeat offenders caught will be banned for life from the site completely, no exceptions.
5. Should they try to circumvent the ban in anyway or join our tournaments earlier (smurfing), they will be banned for life.

It is important to note that not everyone caught map hacking will necessarily change. Under this system those unrepentant will be fully punished but "reforming" players aware of their mistake who have changed their attitude will not be subjected to the same sentence that the unrepentant offenders receive.

Players who are unrepentant will face the stiffer sentence of 6 months, whereas players who have changed their attitudes and reformed themselves will be given the opportunity to be reintegrated in the community earlier but only after proving the change of their attitude through community work. This is similar to the "good behavior" system that reduces jail sentences in prisons.

Like Nemo says:

"Justice is no vengeance or lynching. It aims at giving a message to everyone that if you're behaving badly you will face harsh consequences but it also aim at reintegrating people in the society and community. Put yourself in his situation, don't think that it can't happen to you. We all have made mistakes in our lives. We would want a second chance if (and when) it happens to us."

Community work will be defined for now as:

• Strategy articles (GM and above)
• Free Coaching for the community (Masters and above)
• Replay Analysis in our Replay Feedback thread
• Contributive / helpful posts on SC2SEA

The 1-3 month reduction of sentence will depend on the individuals performance in the above.

EvetS' ban starts today: 3rd January and will be lifted on the 3rd of July
Keep in mind EvetS never used this in competitions, I believe all he wanted was the respect from having a nice ladder record.

Meany's ban starts today: 3rd January and will be lifted on the 3rd of July
There have been enough analysis from Jazbas, SPR, Nemo, myself and many various other people to conclude that he indeed was hacking.

---

Moved all the EvetS drama here so we can continue catching the other hackers in the other thread. Nemo makes a very mature post which I moved just below and I hope everyone can read that first with an open mind before picking up their pitch forks. We hate hackers, we are aware how much it hurts the scene. Thats why there was even this thread made in the first place and hacking whatever the reasons is inexcusable. But it doesn't mean we should be so quick to crucify a former respected member of this community and offer him no chance of redemption.

The problem now seems to be the "punishment" given, which some find to be too lenient and not setting a proper precedence whereas others find it adequate and are aware the "true punishment" has been the outting, the shame, loss of friends and complete destruction of his reputation which he has build over the last year. These people believe in rehabilitation, which by the way won't be an easy road - and expect EvetS to do a decent amount of community work to begin to atone for what he did.

I am one of those people and I believe in second chances, certain members of this forum who have made mistakes before wouldn't even be here today if I didn't. I also believe Sensei was given a chance by TA after map hacking in Starcraft 1, and is a good example of how someone who has recognised his mistake can change for the better to become a positive, contributive member of the community. Please keep that in mind.

Meanwhile, the sc2sea admins will be having a discussion bearing in mind the new evidence that has surfaced and the OP will be updated later.

[Nemo]

Please stop the lynching now. Yes, he certainly lied. I was quite certain Nirvana and other organizers knew it too.

Yes, what he did is bad. But let keep perspectives about it. He didn't kill anyone nor raped any children. He's a nice kid, helped people of the community, doesn't treat people badly, never was racist with anybody.

Justice is no vengeance or lynching. It aims at giving a message to everyone that if you're behaving badly you will face harsh consequences but it also aim at reintegrating people in the society and community. Put yourself in his situation, don't think that it can't happen to you. We all have made mistakes in our lives. We would want a second chance if (and when) it happens to us.

For his friends, remember why he was your friend in the first place and ask yourself if what he did to you is forgivable or not. Remember real friends are those who still love you when you're down and don't howl with others.

I think that the punishment decided by his clan and Organisers is enough, even considering he hacked more than once.
I think his clan should accept his weakness and doesn't expel him.

If everyone want to lynch him, lynch me with him. I don't find this right.

Quick Comments

	nard:	thank u for the human decency
	mGGDaedalus:
	xGKingdelete:
	nirvAnA:	nemo is a hero!!!!!!
	EveJeonSa:	You are wise :) ♥
	Honeybadger:

[pRoTimber]

why so many maphacker on sea ladder these days? Clan fade can u tell fadeevets not to maphack?

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:	a bad one at that
	mGGDaedalus:	Get some evidence before throwing around accusations like that
	deL:

[mGMUSE]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

why so many maphacker on sea ladder these days? Clan fade can u tell fadeevets not to maphack?

LOL wtf i've kept this to myself for a few months now, but fadeevets is 141% a maphacker

[pRoTimber]

ya caught him after 1 game, unlike other hackers have to play so many games to catch

[aLtShortizz]

Do u guys have proof of it? Ive know evets for a long time and played plenty against him, i wouldnt doubt him unless i see some evidence.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

+1 to that he seems totally clean! need teh proof!

[mGMUSE]

(replays in next post)

After 3 seasons..

Game2(TDA)

Once again, completely no drone scout, doesn't even see my base until my nat starts mining(and even then only the edge of the glowing minerals).

1:55 - 2:10: Watch my SCV scout and his line of sight - He NEVER sees the SCV on any of his overlord yet he decides to change the path of his Drone(that was going to be a hatch) downwards to avoid my SCV. Clear tell imo.

3:15 - 3:30: Again, look at his line of sight - He doesn't see the bunker building yet he pulls 3 drones immediately. Sure, you could say that his overlord spotted my scv for a brief moment at 3:15, but LOOK AT HIS PLAYER CAM - HE WASN'T LOOKING AT THAT SPOT!

5:45: Roach Warren when he hasn't scouted me AT ALL and I seemed to be bunker pushing him(roaches are usually more reserved for reaper openings). Probably production tab hacking - He saw that I was making reactored hellions

6:00: Preemptive split of zerglings right before my hellions came in. An excellent player might be able to do that

Rest of the game didnt have much of a tell, but just keep an eye on the Production tab as well as my activities and his.

14:10: Banes morph RIGHT BEFORE my army reaches his base without seeing my army move out.

Final battle - Not very suspicious but he attacks right before my reinforcements arrives.

[mGMUSE]

didnt attach

[pRoTimber]

think of "minimap" hack/ sensor tower hack then u will see

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

thanks for uploading replays timber!

[FaDeGofire]

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

(replays in next post)

After 3 seasons..

Game2(TDA)

Once again, completely no drone scout, doesn't even see my base until my nat starts mining(and even then only the edge of the glowing minerals).

1:55 - 2:10: Watch my SCV scout and his line of sight - He NEVER sees the SCV on any of his overlord yet he decides to change the path of his Drone(that was going to be a hatch) downwards to avoid my SCV. Clear tell imo.

3:15 - 3:30: Again, look at his line of sight - He doesn't see the bunker building yet he pulls 3 drones immediately. Sure, you could say that his overlord spotted my scv for a brief moment at 3:15, but LOOK AT HIS PLAYER CAM - HE WASN'T LOOKING AT THAT SPOT!

5:45: Roach Warren when he hasn't scouted me AT ALL and I seemed to be bunker pushing him(roaches are usually more reserved for reaper openings). Probably production tab hacking - He saw that I was making reactored hellions

6:00: Preemptive split of zerglings right before my hellions came in. An excellent player might be able to do that

Rest of the game didnt have much of a tell, but just keep an eye on the Production tab as well as my activities and his.

14:10: Banes morph RIGHT BEFORE my army reaches his base without seeing my army move out.

Final battle - Not very suspicious but he attacks right before my reinforcements arrives.

hmm.. i'm not thoroughly convinced..
1. the drone dodging scv scout looked the most suspicious to me. i'm not a zerg player so i don't know.. is it possible that he always does it when 15 hatching? at high level, opponents will time their scout to come just before 15 hatch to block it.. so hiding drone might be a valid strat?

2. if he was watching minimap the scv movement looked suspicious enough to justify pulling a couple of drones to check; especially since he had no vision of his nat. also, the drones did not go straight to the bunker. i'm not sure about this either.

3. reactor hellion is the most common tvz opener. tal'darim is pretty good for hellion harass. maybe it's just a precaution?

4. wouldn't a good zerg player have a sense of when the hellions will be out and near his base? not a clear tell of maphacking imo

5. banes morphed right after the zerglings where produced. could be that he wanted to make banelings immediately?

sorry if my points are stupid. This is just my opinion and reasoning of why he might have done those actions. evets is my clan mate and friend.. i really need to see undeniable proof of maphacking or his confession before i can believe it. I would like to see more replays please


EDIT: @nrvgrim i don't regret anything i posted here. Evets admitted to hacking against timber and has assured me he has only done it twice. I have no reason to believe he used hacks against muse unless more replays are provided. as pig said.. this replay is not conclusive evidence of maphacking.

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

Kinda funny he admitted it, eh?

[mGMUSE]

Originally Posted by FaDeGofire

hmm.. i'm not thoroughly convinced..
1. the drone dodging scv scout looked the most suspicious to me. i'm not a zerg player so i don't know.. is it possible that he always does it when 15 hatching? at high level, opponents will time their scout to come just before 15 hatch to block it.. so hiding drone might be a valid strat?

2. if he was watching minimap the scv movement looked suspicious enough to justify pulling a couple of drones to check; especially since he had no vision of his nat. also, the drones did not go straight to the bunker. i'm not sure about this either.

3. reactor hellion is the most common tvz opener. tal'darim is pretty good for hellion harass. maybe it's just a precaution?

4. wouldn't a good zerg player have a sense of when the hellions will be out and near his base? not a clear tell of maphacking imo

5. banes morphed right after the zerglings where produced. could be that he wanted to make banelings immediately?

sorry if my points are stupid. This is just my opinion and reasoning of why he might have done those actions. evets is my clan mate and friend.. i really need to see undeniable proof of maphacking or his confession before i can believe it. I would like to see more replays please

i feel that your post is too biased, you have to view the replay with a neutral mindset instead of 'how to defend my clanmate'

1. ok.............
2. pulled 3 drones to check?
3+4.
remember this was back in season 2, where 2rax or reaper openings were the norm and hardly anyone went reactored hellions. to have that kind of understanding at that time would mean..... only nestea on crack

Quick Comments

	PiG:	nestea on crack? helion openers have ALWAYS been extremely common
	AxSGRiM:

[FaDeEvetS]

fairly sure the game/timeframe you're talkng about (havent watched the rep yet) was JUST after i'd had coaching/talked to pig about zvt and how to open. so i was pretty much just blindly doing what he'd told me, in order to get practice with the build as my mechanics etc were obviously much lower then so it was difficult to try out a new style as well as maintain scouting etc.
and even to this day i pretty much get 3 roaches if they do anything other than 2 rax ..

been streaming this morning and just played a game against timber on stream btw..

[pRoTimber]

i dont care stream or not, or how u hack with stream on, or started streaming after the hack game, and lose to me in 2nd game just to say " im not hacking ". im ignorant and dont usually do this, i only posted the replays cuz nirvana said i should support my claim with evidence. so hack or not, u know, i know, god knows. i believe in karma but wtf karma gonna do to a maphacker, so fk this shit, i got more problems in life than to pursue this case that wont even get the hackers banned.

Quick Comments

	TAEdarus:	Chill brother.
	FaDeBadger:	Calm down and go away
	TAScarecrow:
	Nemo:	And you did right

[TargA]

omg dis be sum sirus shit, i tink muse is liek rite

Quick Comments

	TAEdarus:	Y SO SRS?
	deL:	i dnt speek sweedish

[FaDeEvetS]

....right, so if i'm allowed to put up evidence to defend myself, here's a first person VOD, 55:00

i also don't have you added on bnet so sniping you to lose and 'prove im not hacking' is...logistically difficult

edit; ah yep thanks nemo

http://www.justin.tv/steve310/b/303884234

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by FaDeEvetS

....right, so if i'm allowed to put up evidence to defend myself, here's a first person VOD, 55:00

i also don't have you added on bnet so sniping you to lose and 'prove im not hacking' is...logistically difficult

Evets, you forgot the link I think.

Targa, that's quite serious, could you not troll this time please ? You're far too subtle to your own good mate.

Edit : Well, there are a lot of video to watch and they are posted. The accusations have been given by 2 serious GMs to one another serious GM all respected members of the community.

It will need hard work to analyse it because if there is Map Hack it seems relatively well hidden I think. So better give time to time and see all the analysis that will come in the next few days on all the video. I will try to make my own thorough analysis but it will take time.

I know that's not easy for either of Muse, Timber, Evets and their clans because that's serious accusations, but stay calm and wait for good analysis (not only mine ofc) to react.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	asdfSchnitzel:

[FaDeEvetS]

fair enough nemo. I can upload replays against other players if wanted. my stream also has multiple games played on it now for referencing

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by FaDeEvetS

fair enough nemo. I can upload replays against other players if wanted. my stream also has multiple games played on it now for referencing

I really dont think VODs of you streaming yourself proves anything as IF a person was map hacking theyd be rather foolish to leave the hacks enabled while they were streaming, Im not accusing you in any way, just saying you might want to come up with better evidence

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

[FaDeEvetS]

but...if you're capable of performing at or around that level why would you maphack? is what i was going at

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	FaDeAudacity:

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by FaDeEvetS

but...if you're capable of performing at or around that level why would you maphack? is what i was going at

fair point, I have no idea why people map hack, in the FPS communities even the best players who are "proven at LAN" aka you cant cheat at LAN events so proves you are good, have been caught hacking only month later, who knows why people cheat lol