[Nemo]

After close to 6 months of helping maintain this OP, crAzerk is stepping down and passing the reins over to resident map hacking detection champ, Nemo!

Admin Note: To submit a 'Suspected Hacker Report', you MUST produce the following:

1. Replay(s) (The more the better) of suspected hacker
2. Analysis of specific points in the game, with time (e.g. 10:26-10:35) stated, where the suspicious hack-like symptoms are found

Any accusations without these two will be ignored and you may be temp banned for falsely accusing and ruining the good name of someone else.


Confirmed Map Hacker List:

1. Sequoia (Blink Hacking - Multiple sources of blatant blink hacking from Jazbas, Jerry, PiG, etc)
   • Note - Account misused after sharing - clarification from original owner of account.
2. FaDeEvetS (He confessed to hacking in one game, with several other games shown to have been blatant maphack.)
3. Meany (Incriminating evidence from many players analysis, Clan SPR, Jazbas, nirvAnA, Nemo etc)
4. SlayerSBoxer (Auto-Inject + Map hack) (Links 1 , 2)
5. CraftKing (Blatant Maphack, glances into Fog of War at opponent's base multiple times) Replay 1 / Replay 2 + Analysis
6. Ghost - (Highly suspected and does not wish to submit more replays to clear his name, moving to Confirmed Hacker unless he comes back to clear his name)
7. iVnFiction (Suspicious sniping of Mothership. Claimed to not be playing account but disappears after being asked to supply replays. Moved to Confirmed Hacker unless he comes back to clear his name.
8. onsjcapone (Blatant Maphack, glances into Fog of War multiple times to look at opponent). Analysis / Replay
9. MeLo - Repositioning army repeatedly to things he can't see. Replay, Analysis
10. LiFeWiRe - Does too many things that are maphack-worthy. Also a racist douchebag. Report and Analysis
11. ThorPC - Analysis
12. Eveni - Analysis
13. Austi - Constant looking into Fog of War. Video Analysis.
14. Mikeyuan - Blink Stalker hack.
15. Melaine - Inject hack, maphack, all da h4x.
16. Mio - Following opponent army in Fog of war, Auto-blink stalkers hack.
17. LeeJay (NA) - Attacking the SCVs that are building proxy rax with 2 drones without any scouting. Following opponent army movements without seing it.
18. Ikerbs - Knowing where his opponent has spawn on 3 analysis and blindly cheesing them with canon or proxy gates. Dodging invisible opponent probe and TwoGee analysis.
19. bluexile - Constantly watching opponent army in fog of war. It's obvious enough to place him on the hacker list.
20. OoGaBa - Intercepting things he can't far too much times. Blink Stalker hack..
21. ImbaChrisJie - http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=968 and http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=972 Permanent poking in enemy bases without vision in 3 games shown. Odd cancel of forward pylon that was on the point of being scouted. Odd scouting of a cheese against him.
22. llllllllllll - http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=979 and http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=983 Intercepting drops he cannot see, walling natural without seeing the incoming hellion runby, looking opponent army and base countless times in FoW.
23. Whiteluxury / LGWhite = Confirmed hacker. In base proxy gates on a 4 player map + heaps of other obvious stuff. Begins from page 51. Ban begins 6th November.
24. xxdroidxx - Bunch of dodgy actions + staring into fog at an invisible unit + multiple dubious sniping of observers. Analysis. Replay.
25. [ClanEX] DaNkS Strong preparation for an attack he couldn't see coming.
    Analysis
    Replay.+ http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=1197
26. Fraser / (whiteluxury ?) = Confirmed hacker : http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=1202

Suspected Map hackers:

• Empirical - Highly suspicious behaviour such as deflecting an OL scout + no scouting on a 4player map but still sending a ling directly to his opponent's base. Replay and Analysis 1, Analysis 2 , Analysis 3. Additional Replays (2)

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	<3
	nirvAnA:
	ToRsupapower:
	NvJazBas:
	iVnStinger:
	SMU E-sports:	justice is served
	VB_Boony:

[x1a0yu2]

why cheater Sequoia (GM top 1 now) still do not be bannd by blizz?


Sequoia is known by used blink stalker bot, and even map hacker. I dont know why he still can play and he is
GM top 3 now, that is so ridiculous

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	so cute china ToT powa!!!!!!!
	seminaked:	sb队长，我来扣分了!!!

[crAzerk]

Submit a report to Blizzard? And what is a blink stalker bot?

[nirvAnA]

Yea a lot of pple have confirmed that. There is also another protoss map hacker, will tell his clan leader about it rather than out him here

[x1a0yu2]

automatic control blink stalker, it is so powerful for pvz.

[aLtMrFool]

Same words of advise as always.. When you meet people who cheat just to win in SC II.. Just ignore them and move on until they receive the banhammer from blizzard! No point muddling over a lost that you can learn nothing from

Quick Comments

Stallion:

so smart <3

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by aLtMrFool

Same words of advise as always.. When you meet people who cheat just to win in SC II.. Just ignore them and move on until they receive the banhammer from blizzard! No point muddling over a lost that you can learn nothing from

pretty sure an account needs a number of "flags" before it is checked out by blizzard (theorycraft). so then if everyone just moved on in these types of situations, no one would get banned there are people of certain types, then there are others. iduno, i guess everything just balances itself out. you just have to learn to accept it. advice is useless i guess im more a passive type and dont give a **** lol.

[MooZfY]

Can we has replay?

[EveVendetta]

Are you really sure he uses blink hack? I won a blink stalker immortal PvP game against him, and when he looked at his base where I had sent a zealot to his mineral line his stalkers didn't blink backwards and many died.

Not sure how a blink hack works but he wasn't using it then.

I can upload the replay if you guys wanna take a look.

Edit: Ok wait i just re-watched the replay again and I saw one point where a stray stalker blinked back automatically (when he was controlling his main army). Hmmm.

[PiG]

lol that guy is so bad though. Does the most obvious blinkstalkers 11:30 push every game and i just overwhelmed him despite the micro i think 3-0 the other day...

Edit: Yeah make sure you have sent a proper report to blizzard, they normally take a few days though. Just wait and see I suppose.

Quick Comments

JoFritzMD:

Why can't everyone be like you PiG

[TASlowHands]

Never fear x1a0yu2, I shall see to it immediately

[Rage]

You know what, I played this guy yesterday, and didn't notice anything, but I read this thread and went and looked at the replay, and he does not even scout at all in a PvP until after his CYBERCORE.

I mean, yes, some people scout after 12gate and check proxy spots first instead of doing a 9scout for added safety, but scouting at 16 supply is a bit ridiculous - a 2x proxy gate in the middle of Entombed Valley would have been a B/O win against him doing that.

Went back and retroactively reported him.

Quick Comments

	[TA]LoSt:	thats hardly sufficient evidence for a report..
	Zealo:	i core scout in PvP...
	wolf:	i core scout on 11 gate too
	deL:	I don't scout in PvP, no use spying on someone's flipped coin while it's in the air
	Ruscour:	i core scout quite often, the extra minerals for tight timings is sometimes worth the risk
	AusBox:	1 Gate -> Twilight often needs the extra minerals given from a core scout Vs a 4gate

[calcifer19]

i played this guy when this season start he always go blink stalker vs zerg and he took 3 games frome me and 7 games from jerry, then he admit to jerry he is using hacks

[mGGDaedalus]

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a blink stalker bot

[syfMiley]

Jerry hook a homeboy up with some replays, you can't just go around allegationising peoples you knows?

[ToRSpartaz]

Hate on the hackers where do I sign up? We can mass report dem ^^

[Rage]

at the very least, i'm glad that sequoia is outed. hopefully with enough reports we can get some action.

[crAzerk]

This post has been made redundant, I'm just a OP-updater not a judge!

+ Show +

While I'm honored to be tasked this responsibility by nirvAnA, I have some points to make:

What is the purpose of this thread?
Is to catch maphackers? To put a label on hackers? To vent your frustration after losing? To compile a list of hackers to ban for future tournaments? To compile a list of hackers to ostracize and verbally abuse everytime you get matched against them on ladder?

Whatever the intention is, I don't see how it's going to be done 'fairly'. Whether someone is hacking or not is 90% of the time a fairly ambiguous case. Apart from the blatant cases where players actually glance into the fog (happened ages ago I recall), most other cases are bound to be ambiguous.


How do you judge whether someone is hacking?
What then is the criteria to decide if someone is or is not a maphacker in these cases? Is it when 60% of the replies agree that he is a hacker? 80%? 90%? 100? Or is it when an 'expert' (e.g. top 10 GM player) says 'yes, it is hacking'?

There are just so many cases of 'sixth sense' in this game of SC2 which makes it difficult to distinguish who's hacking or not. One personal case I could recall was when Shortizz was still an unknown and he was playing against a wellknown T (can't rem who), and he basically put up blind spores ag a dual port Banshee build and as a result owned it pretty well. I recall thinking at that point of time 'HOW DOES HE KNOW??'
Hacks? Hardly. It's just a precautionary measure as we all know by now, 'safety spores' as we call it.

And I'm sure you've seen many games of the top GSL Zergs (I always get them mixed up so I won't bother naming them) employing some mystical sixth sense and somehow catching every single Terran drop


Proper decision-making techniques
Anyone who has studied decision-making techniques academically will be able to attest to this - a group makes better decisions than an individual, although they will take a longer time and other group processes may bias their decision of course.

Especially so in such a moral decision as 'Is X a hacker', with no clear criteria to determine it, it is definitely preferable to have a group make a decision rather than an individual. If you want to appoint 'someone' to decide on these cases, you need a group, not any lone individual.

And even with a group, you'll need to establish the proper decision making technique as well - do you decide by consensus? (100% agree as a group) Do you vote? (80% majority, etc) Do you have an appointed leader who consolidates the points by the group and makes the decision? Do you


Conclusion (TL/ DR)
Therefore, I don't see this thread accomplishing much, besides a lot of finger pointing and a lot of tension between players. To summarize my points:

• A clear purpose for this needs to be established. Are we going to ban named hackers from tournaments? (if anything less, there is no point for this thread, just disseminate the information in your clan or whatever to ostracize known parties
• Clear criteria needs to be established to determine whether someone is a hacker
• If above points are settled, then a team needs to be established, with clear decision making techniques put in place.

Thus, in light of the points above, I have to reject this delegation of being the judge in these maphack cases.

EDIT: In light of the recent confession, I have this to add:
Not everyone is going to have the balls like FadeevetS to own up to his crime. But well if the purpose of this thread is to put monumental pressure on a suspected hacker until he folds and crumbles and confesses to it, you don't need a judge.
So what I CAN do is to simply update the OP if we have confessions, but I'm not going to play judge. You guys can be the lynch mob.

[CHoBo(kice)]

I dropped 7 games to a no name Protoss the other day... I looked at replays I did not do anything out of the usual. 4 gate every game yet still managed to beat me, very unusual. Almost broke him once but COINCIDENTLY goes into my base and destroys my CC with full mana....... Teched to DT. I was going 1-1-1 after 6 losses of bio and how he know I dont have a raven on map hmmm

Blind tech switches and preparation at his base knowing exactly when I am going to move and how.

Cant beleive my win rate is at 20% currently. I decided to quit laddering on until blizzard sorts some of this crap out. I am working on getting my other account into GM now instead.

It is actually disgusting the amount of people doing it at the moment. I managed to drop several games at Platinum / Diamond level, analysis of replay makes me think wtf... Several instances when I fly factories over manage to put blind pylon in exact location where I am flying just as am about to land or drop. For people to be doing it "Coincidently" in platinum level compared to me beating the best with the strategy makes me question it.

From what I have heard these hacks are available freely to the public whereas before they were paid and private... Hence the dramatic increase... It is just disgusting, lowlife and pathetic doesn't matter what excuse you have IRL or what ever.

If you have IRL issues, go SORT it out... Dont go on Starcraft and take it out on players who practice so hard and train to improve because it messes with people and puts them off game. My previous experience is if you have IRL issues your game play will be drastically effected in a bad way and you should not play until it is sorted out.

my 2c

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	post the replays?
	SoloZ:

[RamboLicious]

ok guys, I know that the guy Sequoia is confirmed hacking. But can anyone post a replay or a video of him actually hacking?
I'm not being a troll or anything, I just need hard evidence.

Quick Comments

PiG:

yeah i didnt realise he was hacking he just seemed stupid. sum1 plz post evidence

[mOOnGLaDe]

really that sequia guy is a hacker? i beat his ass a few times

Quick Comments

	MooZfY:	Pwning hackers like a boss :)
	Volition:	Moonglade: you got hacks? k, nps.
	TCPKiaSu:	moonglade's hacks are better then sequia's XD

[crAzerk]

really that sequia guy is a hacker? i beat his ass a few times

Yea cos you're too good

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by mOOnGLaDe

really that sequia guy is a hacker? i beat his ass a few times

Clearly, the hack's mechanics were not as good as Moonglade's.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	report moonglade!
	ProAnnn:	(Y)

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

ok guys, I know that the guy Sequoia is confirmed hacking. But can anyone post a replay or a video of him actually hacking?
I'm not being a troll or anything, I just need hard evidence.

Evidence, guys, please.

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

Oh man i hope this doesn't turn into Wc3 ladders on Bnet.....when your ELO/MMR gets high enough you exclusively vs hackers and EVERY. SINGLE. TOURNEY. You played hackers in prelims, hackers in brackets and then hackers in the final and despite mostly crushing them anyway because they were ******* shit you would lose occasionally and it is very, very ANGOR INDUCING >

GLaDe could vouch for this, West/East were infested by hacking scum

Quick Comments

Eldrid:

i remember invuln hacks, drop hacks, MH :| So horrible

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by BiGbiRd

Oh man i hope this doesn't turn into Wc3 ladders on Bnet.....when your ELO/MMR gets high enough you exclusively vs hackers and EVERY. SINGLE. TOURNEY. You played hackers in prelims, hackers in brackets and then hackers in the final and despite mostly crushing them anyway because they were ******* shit you would lose occasionally and it is very, very ANGOR INDUCING >

GLaDe could vouch for this, West/East were infested by hacking scum

SEA isn't the only place for hackers. A guy called Lone is back on the NA ladder, which is fun. :|

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

Originally Posted by tgun

SEA isn't the only place for hackers. A guy called Lone is back on the NA ladder, which is fun. :|

Funny that you mention him because i shit you not but i am one hundred percent certain that Lone = Deezer, Deezer = Focusmyhead, = Manubot (IE it's the same dude) who was the most well known hacker in the entire Wc3 scene. He was banned from countless Wc3 replay sites, leagues, ladders and all sorts and continued hacking and posting his shitty replays of him hacking all over the place. I think there are actually a few threads on Tl explaining who he is and what a piece of shit he is

Quick Comments

	FaDeEvetS:	i recall hearing that lone is deezer yeah..
	Champi:	Deezer suffers from autism

[Cordance]

I dislike the idea of anyone cheating it is wrong on every level for any reason in my mind. The thing is that many people fail at life regularly, as AA says admitting it is the first step to fixing it.

I personally do not begrudge people for their failings so long as they seek to better themselves. I would rather have a community where people can admit their failings rather than one with pitchforks and angry mobs. If anyone does such in a competition or smurf then I feel its totally unacceptable and Im willing to grab my pitchfork.

As to deny then admitting if like he said he hacked for one game to see what it does and in the hopes of having an easy game them stopped. I can I would say most people would follow the denial its one game in 100s. What it has done to his reputation is significant most people would much rather lie than deal with that. Admitting it takes a lot of guts and such an action does go a long way to showing he can better himself.

Quick Comments

	PiG:
	FaDeGofire:

[AvPoker]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

ok guys, I know that the guy Sequoia is confirmed hacking. But can anyone post a replay or a video of him actually hacking?
I'm not being a troll or anything, I just need hard evidence.

Really?

http://drop.sc/80753

Quick Comments

	EveJeonSa:	Yay.
	RamboLicious:	thanks!
	PiG:
	Imperial:	hahahaha

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by pokerface

Really?

http://drop.sc/80753

yes bro, otherwise it's gonna be just words against words.

Many thanks. Checking.. now.

[MooZfY]

SO people just buy SC2 and maphack to win.. cool

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by pokerface

Really?

http://drop.sc/80753

checked. Frankly this doesn't really prove that he's a cheater, he saw ur fast lings, slow expo, and u're a random player...
Certainly he can't be sure that u're going to cheese, but he could sense something.

I think we should have a clearer proof, guys

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

checked. Frankly this doesn't really prove that he's a cheater, he saw ur fast lings, slow expo, and u're a random player...
Certainly he can't be sure that u're going to cheese, but he could sense something.

I think we should have a clearer proof, guys

pokerface is a random player? What do you mean? LOL? He's had really good placings in many SC2SEA tournaments and he has always been one of the top SEA players on Ladder. More proof is needed though.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

pokerface is a random player? What do you mean? LOL? He's had really good placings in many SC2SEA tournaments and he has always been one of the top SEA players on Ladder. More proof is needed though.

I think he means random race player(Pokerface used to be random instead of zerg)...

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

pokerface is a random player? What do you mean? LOL? He's had really good placings in many SC2SEA tournaments and he has always been one of the top SEA players on Ladder. More proof is needed though.

Nah, I mean pokerface plays random race on Ladder. I know pokerface, played with him on ladder quite some times, a very good player indeed. Anyway, seems like he changed to mainly Zerg recently , I didn't know that though.


For the game, he did a fail scout obviously, but what if he believes that the zerg player is gonna be rushing him based on what he has in mind?
A blind 6 cannon is something unusual and suspicious, but I'd love to see some clearer proofs.

If I'm the zerg player, I did fast lings, late expo vs a protoss who does a FFE, I might want to do a roach lings all in.
If I'm the protoss player, I might think as above, and let's say I want to take this 50-50% win chance by putting some cannons blindly to defend for the all in, cause I can't scout anything else.
On the other hand, isn't it a 50-50% situation for the Zerg player to win with roach lings all in as well?

Btw, I'm a Terran player, when TvZ, at 10 minutes mark, I always go 2-3 turret unless I'm sure that my opponent is not going muta .
Also, In one of the match between me and Shortizz (SEA Community Open #35 i believe), the guy have a great gaming sense, and experience going for 2 (or 3?) spore crawler although he didn't see any evidence that I'm going for banshee.


***Disclaimer: I'm not trying to defend this cheater Sequoia, but I really need some concerete proof, to bust his ass completely, guys .

[MazEi]

Wasn't the Sequoia thing is that he used blink stalker hacks or something like that?

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by mazei

Wasn't the Sequoia thing is that he used blink stalker hacks or something like that?

That's what all the top zerg players were saying. Although I'm sure that someone using a blink stalker hack would almost definitely be using other hacks as well.

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by mazei

Wasn't the Sequoia thing is that he used blink stalker hacks or something like that?

yes, but the only replay I can get so far is the one he (P) was playing with pokerface(Z), in a game where he went for FFE and scouted pokerface went for fast lings. He then get 6 cannons to defend pokerface's Roach Lings bust even if he didn't see any roach.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

yes, but the only replay I can get so far is the one he (P) was playing with pokerface(Z), in a game where he went for FFE and scouted pokerface went for fast lings. He then get 6 cannons blindly to defend pokerface's Roach Lings bust.

While I agree on a one off basis that game could be written off as being "overly safe" the overwhelming support for his blink stalker hack would mean that on a whole this overly safe behaviour is probably hacking.

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Revenant

I think he means random race player(Pokerface used to be random instead of zerg)...

oh ok, sorry I always thought he was a Z

[Flamga]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

oh ok, sorry I always thought he was a Z

He played random but mains zerg

[PiG]

I completely understand where rambolicious is coming from. Unfortunately i lost most of the reps vs sequoia so this is all I can offer: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=657

Can't tell if he's blink hacking because of the surround but if you care to you can check for where his eyes are on the map etc.

Edit: Someone watched the rep and informed me 2000 apm during the battle and stalkers unselected. Definite hacker Sequoia

Quick Comments

RamboLicious:

thanks man :)

[ROOT`iaguz]

He never hits 2000 apm in that replay (that was ninja talking about a game on Korea against a roach burrow micro hacker or some shit), it 'only' hits 700.

But seriously, ignoring the fact that the way he blinks his stalkers is really weird, if you watch the replay from his point of view it's so obvious he's cheating. The big engagement at like 11 minutes, watch Sequoia-vision. He has only his sentries on hotkeys, his stalkers are not hotkeyed (perhaps for this program to work he has to have them not selected or smth), he sits there very slowly setting up Forcefields whilst stalkers WHICH HE DOES NOT SELECT are blinking every which way.

Obvious cheater.

Quick Comments

	Flamga:	the man has spoken
	RamboLicious:

[CHoBo(kice)]

how does his apm average like 60 then? strange...

look into fog of war is no uncommon though, I do it sometimes at my enemys base to try and remember how many gates etc when I scouted.

[pRoTimber]

and also i uploaded 3 replays, why nobody care about the other toss named "ghost" - -

[rizE]

ban hackers

[crAzerk]

Whew, was hoping for nirvana to make the post he did sooner to stop the random negativity going on.

Originally Posted by rizE

ban hackers

You trying to get your post count up or something? Odd 1 phrase posts.

Originally Posted by pRoTimBer

and also i uploaded 3 replays, why nobody care about the other toss named "ghost" - -

I think your post was missed amidst the bigger controversy about evetS. Also, you didn't include any analysis in your post besides just uploading 3 replays. Could you point out in at least 1-2 of them WHEN and WHERE are the times which show that he's hacking?

(pRoTimber's post)

[nirvAnA]

This thread has already done well, hackers have been outed, prevented (extremely unlikely for him to attempt to hack again), discouraged (of other potential hackers tempted because of what happened here) and punished. Moving on from the evets case, lets focus our efforts on catching the other hackers out there, there are still quite a few in our midst.

I don't know how this post was overlooked.

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

and also i uploaded 3 replays, why nobody care about the other toss named "ghost" - -

http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...2&d=1325108997
http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...3&d=1325109007
http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...4&d=1325109017

I believe the most incriminating replay shows the protoss going nexus first on TDA with 0 scouting, then pulling back all his probes and units to his main base at the sight of just 2 marines (if you use his camera vision). Timber went for an all in and denied all scouting, so the logical explanation of his actions is he saw a trail of dots on the minimap that alerted him, which was not have been possible as he had no vision at all. Before this game timber played like 5 games with him all very suspicious.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

I don't know how this post was overlooked.

I didn't.

If you're lazy to click,

Originally Posted by crAzerk

(addressing proTimBer) I think your post was missed amidst the bigger controversy about evetS. Also, you didn't include any analysis in your post besides just uploading 3 replays. Could you point out in at least 1-2 of them WHEN and WHERE are the times which show that he's hacking?

[Seq]

Hi all,

I am the owner of this account. This account password was shared to many poor players so they can practice or join our local private tournaments on SEA servers. The original purpose was to spread e-sport in my local community.

Due to my busy life, I have not checking all my public SC2 accounts (I have many). Apparently one player from US server decided that he wants to taste the feeling of being a GM on SEA so he laddered like a mad man (you can check the match history mostly being played in US timezone). At the end he was actually promoted to GM this week.

I am currently on my holiday vacation so I have not checked any replay. If he is really hacking. I apologize for all the troubles caused. He not only tainted my username but also caused many troubles and outrages among my local community and SC2SEA community. At the moment I will change the password of this account so nobody will have the access for now.

Once again, sorry to all. I will accept any action from Blizzard for this account.
Seq

*edit* P.S. I am on holiday vacation so if you have any question in this topic please understand that I can not address all in time.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	ty for the clarification Seq, yes his playing times are US for sure.
	TAEdgE:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	sRFullstop:
	Rage:	Now that you mention it, the playtimes are definitely US-based. That clarifies a lot. Clear the man's name!
	Bash:
	EveMassacrisM:	What a retarded f***! Thanks for the clarification.
	Neoneoz:
	ToRSpartaz:	TGUN TOLD ME TO0'
	SLCN.NXZ:	tgun made me do it?
	AxS.Sorathez:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Seq

Hi all,

I am the owner of this account. This account password was shared to many poor players so they can practice or join our local private tournaments on SEA servers. The original purpose was to spread e-sport in my local community.

Due to my busy life, I have not checking all my public SC2 accounts (I have many). Apparently one player from US server decided that he wants to taste the feeling of being a GM on SEA so he laddered like a mad man (you can check the match history mostly being played in US timezone). At the end he was actually promoted to GM this week.

I am currently on my holiday vacation so I have not checked any replay. If he is really hacking. I apologize for all the troubles caused. He not only tainted my username but also caused many troubles and outrages among my local community and SC2SEA community. At the moment I will change the password of this account so nobody will have the access for now.

Once again, sorry to all. I will accept any action from Blizzard for this account.
Seq

*edit* P.S. I am on holiday vacation so if you have any question in this topic please understand that I can not address all in time.

Holy shit rep this post, give me back my rep powers so I can rep him. REP HIM NOW.

[nirvAnA]

Thanks for the post to clarify Seq.

Would need alot more evidence then that, including links to viet forums about the account sharing etc, screenshots of him being giving an account through correspondence etc.

I can vouch for him playing at US times, just the other night he played timber from about 2am-6am SGT. And obviously your story makes sense because you play Zerg. Lastly, I like how you said you will accept the responsibility for the account.

[TAEdgE]

Yeh I can confirm nirvAnA and Timber played him then, I was on for them querying about him.

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Thanks for the post to clarify Seq.

Would need alot more evidence then that, including links to viet forums about the account sharing etc, screenshots of him being giving an account through correspondence etc.

I can vouch for him playing at US times, just the other night he played timber from about 2am-6am SGT. And obviously your story makes sense because you play Zerg. Lastly, I like how you said you will accept the responsibility for the account.

Hi Brian, I can confirm this.

1) It's not Seq who played the account Sequoia
(yes, Sequoia is another Seq's account which was used to be shared for a US player.)

2) There's no official forum / thread / post about the sharing, it's quite personal for Seq, but many of us knows that. Several Vietnamese US players can confirm that as well.

3) This is a shame, as the cheater is Vietnamese. (You can see my previous posts in this thread for the confirmation etc...)
However, he's living in the US, and doesn't really involve in the Vietnamese StarCraft 2 Community at all.
He might played in one of the tournament long ago hosted by Seq though, other than that, nothing else.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

ty rambo. any screenshots of emails etc would help

[crAzerk]

I'm not entirely sure what Bliz's stand about account sharing is, I know in WoW it was deemed illegal but not sure about SC2.

Could I then suggest that such screenshots and emails be sent to nirvAnA instead of posting publicly?
I'm not sure what the stance will be now on this acct from our side, but personally I feel if Seq is telling the truth then we don't really want him(his own acct that's not shared, I suppose) to get into trouble for account-sharing do we?

[Rage]

@nirvana - it might be worth adding a clarification under Seq's name in the OP to note the updated circumstances - not necessarily to clear him but just to say that the forum Seq was possibly not the one playing.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

good idea!

[crAzerk]

@Rage Thanks, added that note. His account still remains in the 'confirmed hacker' list, for obvious reasons. Will see what nirvAnA says about it

[Peleus]

Seq - if what you say is true can I suggest to make partial amends to the damage done to the account you hold you go and lose a heap of games reducing the MMR to bronze then leave it inactive to get it booted from GM.

It would also be appreciated if you never give access to whatever person it was cheating on it again. Just my opinion.

[Volition]

Hey guys, i just had a game and i wanted a second opinion as to whether i should be suspicious about this replay.

http://drop.sc/82473

As a bit of background, i usually get on NA to play a practice game or two before laddering on sea. it is only gold plat level so please excuse the bad macro and play in general. i do make a massive mistake near the end of the game, and what should be a smooth move turns into something even a mother couldn't love. As for what i find suspicious:-

1) firstly (and possibly the least convincing) is his build. When I saw that he was going 1 base colossus vs my 1 rax expand, i went "this might actually kill me" I cant think of a better 1 base build to beat this. yes his macro sucks, yes he should drop more gates. but attacking with a single stalker at a time when i am vulnerable? not zealot stalker pressure, just a stalker. at this stage i wasnt really suspicious.

2) 13:02-13:07 - is it just me or is his vision following my medivacs out of my base?

3) 14 mins onwards - about here, my build and macro got all manner of screwed and my hotkeys got into a mess. but right after i load medivacs he moves stalkers into position? i went, yeah ok, a drop is pretty likely there. but then i thought about it, and looked at his vision. he has NFI where i am. why is his observer not hunting after me?

but then he moves his whole army up there leaving his natural just completely exposed?

14:35 i move my army (and the few scvs that somehow got in that control group) to get in position near his natural. as he starts moving his whole army back to his natural?

then i happen to screw up my control groups again, move my main army to the wrong spot. i admit yes, he did get vision of my medivacs. but his whole army moves back to get the drop.

Overall, this was a terrible game by me. But i just thought it was suspicious and wanted to ask my peers whether they thought there was anything here. I dont want to accuse someone unnecessarily, but the massive control mistakes i made at the end of the game sorta highlighted it a touch more i thought. Thanks

[Nemo]

I watched it [11:17 PM] Nemo: 1rst point seems not good. There are far better answers to 1 rax expand I think. 4 G for example IMO. Hit quicker. I don't really know against what 1 base Colo is good for. I think Immortal play would be better to break bunkers.
[11:18 PM] Nemo: 2) not good either. His obs perfectly sees your medivac out.
[11:19 PM] Nemo: 3) is perfectly legit. Excessivelly good gamesense is often a proof of Map Hack. And then he moved his army to counter your drop without scouting. That's for me nearly a proof of MH.
[11:20 PM] Nemo: Then he goes back to his nat without scouting. Suspect. he doesn't follow your army with Obs. Super suspect
[11:22 PM] Nemo: He has a super weird drone move at 4:25 wanting to avoid your SCV he doesn't see [11:22 PM] Volition: points 1-2 were added after i thougth about what happened after the 14 min mark
[11:23 PM] Nemo: Well, I think 60-80% chances he MH.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

This thread has already done well, hackers have been outed, prevented (extremely unlikely for him to attempt to hack again), discouraged (of other potential hackers tempted because of what happened here) and punished. Moving on from the evets case, lets focus our efforts on catching the other hackers out there, there are still quite a few in our midst.

I don't know how this post was overlooked.

I believe the most incriminating replay shows the protoss going nexus first on TDA with 0 scouting, then pulling back all his probes and units to his main base at the sight of just 2 marines (if you use his camera vision). Timber went for an all in and denied all scouting, so the logical explanation of his actions is he saw a trail of dots on the minimap that alerted him, which was not have been possible as he had no vision at all. Before this game timber played like 5 games with him all very suspicious.

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Tel'Darim Altar
Length : 9min43
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• 7:03 : Ghost see a bunch of marines coming before backing his Stalkers and his probes. That last move is only explicable if he has seen the SCV coming too behind. He had not.

• He didn't knew from Timber base that All-in was coming. He didn't poked with 1 or 2 stalkers are good often do. Not conclusive in itself but makes things even more suspect in this case.

My own conclusion (and it's only an opinion)

• For me this Replay is suspision of Map Hacking. It can be explained if Timber was known by Ghost to do that 50% of the time in this situation. That I can't say, that's our top tier players that can and Ghost himself.
• No Poke: I guess you can be afraid of Concusive Shell in that timing and that might have prevented him for poking. But not at least puting one stalker on the Xel'Naga ? Weird.

I will distinguish "suspicion" as something suspect, and the definition Apth gave me:

Apth: @Nemo - evidence isn't necessarily conclusive, whereas proof is usually considered to be

I will go on on other replay when I can. Tonight or tomorrow.

Edit : Lowered to "Suspicion" following Erasmus remark. I think I have never witnessed such think myself though.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[|Erasmus|]

I don't see why this is terribly suspicious. I've seen protoss do that against me cause they want another round of warp in before engaging some marine pressure, and don't want me to just target down 4-5 probes and run home.

Need to see a bit more than just pulling his probes back to his main when an attack is incoming to say he's hacking...

[Volition]

I think the probe move isnt that bad by itself. You see those marine numbers with the stalker, he can see 9 (knowing tha tis the minimum number of marines). it is unlikely to be a marine marauder push at 7 mins with that number of marines running around. And you dont really want to fight at least 9 marines with 2 stalkers, especially if there is a chance of scvs coming behind. these guys are top 200, they know marine counts

I think it might be suspicious, as good game sense often looks, does anyone else have replays that looks suspicious? he could be a maphacker for all i know, but it wouldnt feel right incriminating him on this evidence alone.

[Nemo]

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Metapolis
Length : 13min18
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• 4:27 : He scouts the vicinity of Timber base but as there is no barrack in his base, a proxy is probable so it's perfectly legit. From that point Timber is simply dead as it is a reactor hellion proxy.

My own conclusion (and it's only an opinion)

• No cheat suspicion for me here.

Remember I'm not high level player, I might have not seen certain things.

[Nemo]

The third replay is the Timber vs Evets replay, not ghost one.

So my general conclusion would be that's it's, for now and for me, no enough for me to conclude any cheat. We might need more replay and preferably from other players.

But I might be wrong.

Other opinions on the subject ?

Anyway, thanks to Timber for keeping the community vigilant.

[Flaunt]

all pRotimber does is cheese. i matched him 6x in a row and he all ind me every game. his play is pretty predictable after awhile so maybe ghost really did know it was coming

Quick Comments

	aLtShortizz:	So if he cheese and all-in alot, hes not allowed to call out a Map hacker? really?
	:	that's not what he said shortizz, just a harmless comment!
	x5.Revenant:	Yeaps that's a valid point! You may be able to read opponents more easily if the playstyle is repeated.
	TAEdgE:
	nGenLight:	Missing the point shortizz
	SLCN.NXZ:	Wouldnt normally rep this but making up for shortizz's downvote
	Rage:	shortizz -he meant that if you know someone all-in a lot you expect it
	TCPKiaSu:	nice one

[crAzerk]

If it's of any relevance, I played against Ghost in a 2v2 and he showed no signs of maphacking. Of course this was just one game.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

all pRotimber does is cheese. i matched him 6x in a row and he all ind me every game. his play is pretty predictable after awhile so maybe ghost really did know it was coming

Sorry that you had to be one of the casualties of the absence of comprehension :/ You have my regards.

Quick Comments

	PiG:	...what? I don't even...
	:	@Pig Refer to the rep comments on Flaunt's post,
	NvRossi:	trying too hard pig
	nirvAnA:	He made an irrelevant post here just to attack shortizz cause of their past history. doesnt deserve +rep

[pRoTimber]

Originally Posted by Flaunt

all pRotimber does is cheese. i matched him 6x in a row and he all ind me every game. his play is pretty predictable after awhile so maybe ghost really did know it was coming

yes yes, i typed whole 2 paragraph and deleted them, i remember im an ignorant

[Ghost300]

Hi, I am the protoss player using the account named Ghost. A friend of mine(PulseSPR) recently told me about my account name being mentioned on this forum, so I quickly registered to respond.

I've uploaded replays of the other games that I played against protimber that day. I hope this will help resolve the matter, if you any of you guys are still willing to have more replays verfied. I appreciate the analysis you've already done and that you're being very objective about it. I feel that I should at least try to care about this somewhat absurd accusation, not to defend myself but to make sure people who play a game with me in the future don't just assume that they're about to play a shitty game against an opponent that can see everything.

Also, one mentioned about cheese and all-ins... I'm really not against it, they're all parts of the game and are often strong enough to bring you quick wins. However, if you play the same opponent and he/she uses the exact same all in every game... it becomes pretty predictable and gives you an idea of their preferred playstyle.

Pulse has been uploading replays of me and him playing on the replay analysis thread, please take a look at those as well if more verification is needed. They're actually pretty good games too!

I apologize this community and protimber, and anyone else for all the time spent and upsetting you guys. Please say hi when we meet in ladder or something, I like SCII a lot and I want it to be fun as always. bye

Quick Comments

	TCPKiaSu:	gj quickly registering here and responing heres ur 1st rep!
	Rage:	I agree that based on the other two replays, that was not at all suspicious.
	EveVendetta:	Nice that you acknowledge all-ins are part of the game and not in a derogatory way towards timber
	:	good first post :)
	nirvAnA:	+1 for coming out. Don't post select replays, please post a replay pack of your games this season

[Nemo]

Thanks Ghost for understanding our (including Timber) inquiries. We will watch those replays.

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

yes yes, i typed whole 2 paragraph and deleted them, i remember im an ignorant

Timber, you're not ignorant. Please, don't be touchy.

You have done great on identifying hackers. I remember perfectly that you were one of those who had the balls to make that call at the time :

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

its kinda obvious from the 2 video link, i would share cosmos grief..like ur comments in the video, "SERIOUSLY!?"

Neutral people (including me) will watch the new replays of Ghost. When done I will ask you what you think about it. As crAzerk says in OP, truth come from confrontation of opinions of many people. We need your feedback on our analysis.

No matter what the conclusions of those inquiries, you were right to post those replays as the first one, without context, is suspect and require explanations.

[Nemo]

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Metapolis
Length : 16min39
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• 3:51 : A SCV is building a depot right in your base. You know there is barrack with lab tech in his base and then there could be a reaper really near your base. You're Chronoing a Stalker but not harassing too much the SCV. Legit move.

• 4:48 : I'm puzzled you're not sending your Stalker scout or not trying to control the Xel'Naga at all, but the stalker is clearly needed to defend any reaper, so it's legit. But no Xel'Naga control at all in both games seen is weird.

• 6:22 : Your stalker is moved from your natural to your main and at the same moment the reaper is nearing the center of the map. Very slight suspicion.

• 6:47 : The army of Timber goes out of his base, you're Chronoing your 3 Warpgate while you have still your bases to saturate. It's suspicious or a perfect timing. For top of SEA : Is this legit in this timing to do that without any information.

• 6:47 : Moreover, the Reaper is now south of the map and the stalker leaves the main to come back to the natural: Suspicious go and return move by the Stalker synchronized with the reaper moves.

• 7:10 : The reaper attacks by the south an retreat but you're not pursuing him at all, even without 1 stalker. You're obviously waiting for something but not scouting at all, so you should not know Timber's army arrives. Suspicious.

• 7:26 : Pre-splitting you're stalkers. Not even one waiting for the reaper at the South.

• Not a single stalker waiting for the reaper in the main now though the only thing you see from Timber is a Reaper. You perfectly know that Timber is arriving and perfectly ready for his army while without hack you could not know it. For me that's evidence of Map Hacking.

• 9:14 : You don't see the army of Timber coming to your drone and you still retreat it at the exact moment Timber's army arrives. Again, you don't use your drone to scout around to see what is happening and there was no reason to retreat that drone at that moment, your army was arriving. That can't be luck no more and still absolutely no scouting. Not even once you got to the Xel'Naga, not even once at that moment of the game. For me that's evidence of Map Hacking.

• You had a robo at exactly 12 minute but never bothered to make an obs without being under pressure since you had denied Timber Natural and made many damages and you had 2 bases fully saturated and a big army sieging him in his main. In the context of what have been listed above it becomes more that suspicious too.

From that point Timber has lost his army, you're sending yours like a boss without any scouting in his base and win after some time.



My own conclusion (and it's only a opinion)

• I have never seen a player scout this few. In fact apart from your first drone scout, you didn't scouted a single time before destroying Timber's Natural. Not once and you didn't get surprised a single time either. For me thats more than suspicion. maybe not evidence as it could be insane luck, but personally I don't believe it.
• You were at least 2 times 100% aware (not suspecting, 100% aware) of Timber push without having any vision of what was coming or very substantial signs. That's for me 2 clear evidences of Map Hacking.
• When watching this replay I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was watching even more suspect things than in the 1rst game and telling myself : "He didn't send a replay of a game when he map hacked. That's not possible, that would be so risky !". And after watching it very closely, I'm unfortunately quite convinced you Map Hacked this game you just sent us.

Truth come from the opinion of multiple people. Nirvana, you unfortunately has to watch it very closely too and control the different points I'm listing and the rest of the game. You have far better knowledge of the game in general and in particular, you have to confirm or infirm my points. Same for other members of the community and top es.


Beleive me, I really would like to be proven wrong, and I'm still very open to the possibility. I tried my best and I was I think quite neutral on the subject.


I can't make the 2 other replays tonight. I will continue tomorrow (in 22 hours) as i have to go to bed now.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Stallion:
	TCPLemminks:

[wolf]

I watched the three replays Ghost uploaded. The most suspicious thing for me was the chrono'ing of gateways with ZERO scouting of Timber's army approaching, while both bases were not saturated. I looked at the other two replays for the same chrono timings to see if they were part of a specific BO, but it didn't occur. It would be pretty cheeky to upload games of himself cheating to look more confident. My personal opinion is he probably is cheating. This is from a GM Toss by the way. Maybe Ghost can enlighten us though as to his mindset/explanation of that game, I don't mind standing corrected.

Sorry, should be more specific, the game I'm talking about is the first one uploaded, where Nemo did a write up. Cheers.

[nirvAnA]

Yea I was doubtful of what timber said till i saw the replays he sent me, as well as looking at the one game i had with ghost.

Basically on TDA I tried out some weird double gas 2 gate (I usually experiment if i dont know the opponent) to try and defend the inevitable 4 gate on that map. He did not scout and he went like 1 gate robo, which is absolute suicide in PvP on TDA and every GM knows this.

And as nemo said, virtually no scouting the whole game, no occupying of watch towers, against me as well and that i feel is one of telling signs of map hackers.

To Ghost: Thanks for coming out. Don't post a few select replays, since you have games that old i assume you autosave all your games. Please post a replay pack of all your games this season. After doing soon and if found not to be conclusive a formal apology will be made and all posts regarding your case will be deleted. Thanks

Quick Comments

Stallion:

[crAzerk]

I have not watched the replay and only read Nemo's analysis, and from that it does seem fairly suspect and I really wonder what Ghost's thought process was.

And yea it doesn't make sense for him to upload games of him hacking, why would he do that??

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I have not watched the replay and only read Nemo's analysis, and from that it does seem fairly suspect and I really wonder what Ghost's thought process was.

And yea it doesn't make sense for him to upload games of him hacking, why would he do that??

I've not commented on this thread before as i don't play at the good players level so i think it's generally best left for them to decide what is expected or usual.

However, and i'm not suggesting that you were implying this at all, but if trying to decide if someone is hacking or not then that players thought process outside of the game itself should have absolutely no bearing on the outcome.

It is very very difficult to prove one way or another but in reality only the actual gameplay actions and thought processes from within the game need to be considered not why they would submit hacked games.

For example they may have done it to then turn around and say "but i submitted that game do you think i'm stupid enough to submit a hacked game?" thus creating doubt in a case that is hard enough to prove as it is.

It seems to me from the outside that only the in game actions are to be assessed and acted upon.

I don't envy you guys having to do this, however you need to be commended for doing so but it is a blight on the human race that you have to.

Quick Comments

wolf:

[EveVendetta]

I agree with Nemo's analysis. For me it was three things - the stalker, the chrono-ing of gates and total lack of scouting.

1. Toss has no reason to shift his stalker like that and it can't be so coincidental that it tracks the reaper's movement across the map. Yes, if you suspect a reaper you would leave a stalker in your main, but in ghost's case once the reaper went to the south he moved it down again.
2. The only time toss would chrono a gate would be if he was going to take an offensive or scouts an impending attack. In ghost's case it was neither.
3. Any GM toss would at least leave a probe or unit at the xel naga towers, or make AT LEAST one obs to scout what build the terran is going for. Ghost did neither again.

As such I really agree with Nemo's analysis that Ghost did maphack, good job and thanks for the work.

Ghost, you have some explaining to do.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Stallion:

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Hunter

but if trying to decide if someone is hacking or not then that players thought process outside of the game itself should have absolutely no bearing on the outcome.

I was referring to Ghost's thought process in the game, when he decided to chronoboost 3 gateways blind, etc. Why would I be referring to his thought process outside of the game? That makes no sense.

For example they may have done it to then turn around and say "but i submitted that game do you think i'm stupid enough to submit a hacked game?" thus creating doubt in a case that is hard enough to prove as it is.

Indeed, super mind games if that was the case. But still, it seems extremely weird to be posting like 'hey guys, i wasn't hacking, here's some replays of me playing even more suspiciously than I have been in my previous games"

Looking forward to Ghost's response

[MeaNySPR]

lol what am i missing here? this whole new thread all of a sudden to publicly denounce incidents that happened really long time ago? i thought we were all done with this shit?

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	Done with you hacking? no.
	wolf:	no free pass for you

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by meany

lol what am i missing here? this whole new thread all of a sudden to publicly denounce incidents that happened really long time ago? i thought we were all done with this shit?

U can still give ur end of the story here if u are adamant that u didnt hack.

[MeaNySPR]

nah i have an old thread solely dedicated to a game of mine and i'm not going to let it continue to cause more problem between me and my friends. i'm going to confirm now that i won't join any tournament organized by this community in the future. as a matter of fact i've never have ever since the incident so i do not understand why this has to be brought up in public like this months later. i'm just playing my game

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	I hope people understand now why I gave respect to EvetS for coming clean like he did
	Rage:	then why bother posting here? leave us the hell alone.

[xGKingdelete]

Referring to pRoTimber vs Ghost on metalopolis:

Ghost's play is very, very suspicious. I completely agree that there is a good chance he is maphacking, but not completely certain. All of the following analysis is giving him the benefit of the doubt. I may be analysing things that he didn't intentionally do if he actually was maphacking. But if he wasn't, I think I can explain some of the things that he did. Going to post these in reponse to Nemo's points.

1)4:48 : I'm puzzled you're not sending your Stalker scout or not trying to control the Xel'Naga at all, but the stalker is clearly needed to defend any reaper, so it's legit. But no Xel'Naga control at all in both games seen is weird.

Well, at there's still a bunker in his base so he leaves the stalker to make sure that gets cancelled first. The bunker is cancelled at 5:07, and his first zealot comes out shortly afterwards. At this time, he only has the zealot and stalker to defend. If he was concerned about the reaper, he wouldn't move the stalker to the watchtower because the potential reaper could sneak into the main and kite the zealot. Also, he wouldn't send a probe to the watchtower either because that's just a free kill for the reaper.

However, to me, it looks like he left his army idle because he felt like it. The watchtower only covers one potential attack path, and having a unit at the watchtower would be one less unit to defend if pRoTimber attacked from the bottom path. Also, because he went 1gate expand into 3gate, he was vulnerable to any pressure (he scouted the 2rax opening), so he might have just wanted to have those units to defend.

2)6:22 : Your stalker is moved from your natural to your main and at the same moment the reaper is nearing the center of the map. Very slight suspicion.

He didn't move it up for the potential reaper. If he was worried about the reaper, he would have moved further up to where reapers are most likely to enter the main, not to the high ground next to the ramp. It was about the time that the pressure should be coming, so he probably expected an attack then. By moving the stalker up, he gained a bit of vision (although the watchtower would have been much better), and if the army did come, he would get a few free shots off from the high ground stalker.



However, that's all assuming that pRoTimber takes the north attack path. If he attacked from the south, then that stalker would be late to the battle. So who knows... perhaps it was just an impulse to move it there.

3)6:47 : Moreover, the Reaper is now south of the map and the stalker leaves the main to come back to the natural: Suspicious go and return move by the Stalker synchronized with the reaper moves.

That might be because he realised what I said above about the potential attack paths, and wanted the stalker to be able to defend just in case. Notice how he only moves it to the bottom of the ramp - if he wanted to stop the reaper, he would go closer to the nexus.



4)6:47 : The army of Timber goes out of his base, you're Chronoing your 3 Warpgate while you have still your bases to saturate. It's suspicious or a perfect timing.

No one does this. Sus. Could just be game sense, or because he knows pRoTimber plays aggressively.

It may be because he was still worried about the pressure and just wanted some units to be safe. He has scouted nothing, so he might be preparing for the worst case scenario.

Or it may be because having the extra units wouldn't hurt him too much. His midgame plan was to do a gateway timing attack, so having the units earlier was no big deal, since he didn't plan to spend it on any tech. (However he did cut probes a bit to get those units, so I don't know. Might just be a genuine mistake, or done deliberately, I know I cut probes a lot in early PvP just to get those gateways out faster).

5)7:10 : The reaper attacks by the south an retreat but you're not pursuing him at all, even without 1 stalker. You're obviously waiting for something but not scouting at all, so you should not know Timber's army arrives. Suspicious.

Reapers are imbalanced and you can never catch them no matter how hard you try.

Jokes aside, not sure about this one either. Suspicious.

Chasing reapers is a lot of effort and half the time they get away, so maybe he just couldn't be bothered.

6)7:26 : Pre-splitting you're stalkers. Not even one waiting for the reaper at the South.

Moving around the army to scare off the reaper messed up his positioning. He repositions his units as soon as they get back into sit-there-and-do-nothing mode, which is what a good player should do.

7)Not a single stalker waiting for the reaper in the main now though the only thing you see from Timber is a Reaper. You perfectly know that Timber is arriving and perfectly ready for his army while without hack you could not know it. For me that's evidence of Map Hacking.

The reaper was last spotted south, at his natural third base, not too long ago. That's very far from his main base, the only way that there would be a reaper in the main was if pRoTimber had made a second reaper.

8)9:14 : You don't see the army of Timber coming to your drone and you still retreat it at the exact moment Timber's army arrives. Again, you don't use your drone to scout around to see what is happening and there was no reason to retreat that drone at that moment, your army was arriving. That can't be luck no more and still absolutely no scouting. Not even once you got to the Xel'Naga, not even once at that moment of the game. For me that's evidence of Map Hacking.

True, I would have expected it to move forward (or upwards towards Timber's natural third) to build another pylon. But this is something really, really small. It could be something that even ghost can't explain. It could just be luck.



As for the whole "no scouting issue", yeah, that makes it very suspicious. But aside from the 3 chronoboosts on warp gates at 6:47, everything seemed kind-of reasonable. He didn't really need to scout. It was a back and forth attack/defend game.

At the start he might have thought "2rax pressure, I can handle that if I have x units at x time". And after the attack, he attacked himself, didn't need to scout there. And after that, he did the forcefield contain. Now he would need to scout to find out the medivac timing with an observer. But he didn't have a robo. When he did have a robo (at 12 mins), he had about 1k minerals 100 gas. He was starving on gas, and may have just decided that he needed some other tech more than the observer.

Well actually, he spent the gas on an immortal, so I don't really know. A collosus den and a second immortal after that. I don't know about that. I would expect the observer, so I guess that is pretty suspicious too.

He might have just assumed "I have seen a lot of barracks units, more than normal. Since he's spending so much money here, his tech is probably delayed and I don't need to worry".



Something else suspicious: At 14 mins, pRoTimber expands to the 7 o clock position with the OC he was forced to lift off at his natural, while he is being contained by forcefields. At 15 mins, Ghost sends a zealot to check out the 1 o clock spawn, and sends another zealot to the 7 o clock. He finds the hidden expansion. Suspicious?

When pRoTimber retreated into his main base, he landed the OC next to the ramp, in plain sight of any unit that walked up the ramp. However, while containing, ghost doesn't scout up the ramp - he has only been forcefielding it. So if you check his vision, as far as he knows, the OC is still there at the ramp. But he sends the zealots anyway.

(he sends the zealot on attack move to check the two other expansions first, the 5 and 6 o clock ones. But it's still pretty suspicious)


Anyway, that's all I have to say about this. Over to you.

Quick Comments

	neon:	good analysis and insights, thanks!
	nirvAnA:

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by PulseSPR

His decision makings are excellent. Even I would put a stalker on top of them ramp to get the vision at the front, since terran wouldn't have vision up the ramp. I do it with sentries on top but stalkers in front.

I wouldn't do this if I had a nexus at the bottom of the ramp. Just saying.

Also, don't worry. I don't think anyone believes for sure that he is a maphacker, we're just investigating. Just waiting to see what he has to say about this.

[Peleus]

I watched the Ghost replay. About the only thing that seems sus to me is the chrono boosting of the 3 gates, and a perhaps the poke up the ramp towards the end.

Everything else seems pretty reasonable, for example moving the stalker up the top seemed more about vision as he didn't move it to the common reaper entry point etc.

It was a bit of a coincidence however was poking up the ramp just as the supply depots were lowered, however it's also feasible that he was seeing how many units were there and it was just lucky timing. I don't think he'd break up anyway and he probably knew that.

In ghosts defence, a few points
- There was some unneeded scouting, such as sending the zealot to the top left base, but this might be to lower suspicion of the zealot scout to the lower right. Saying that, it makes sense that he denied the natural he'd try and float it somewhere else.

- Watching in first person mode there was no camera looking at different fog of war area's, even under the excuse of 'clicking to move to send a scout there'. This isn't proof of one way or another, as I'm not sure what hacks out there are capable of in terms of locking screens etc.

Overall I think he definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially as it's only one replay.

[Flaunt]

watched one of ghost's replays from drop.sc that was uploaded 14minutes ago and he is one of the lazy players who usually never gets teh xel nagas and it didn't look like he was mhing at all.

http://drop.sc/79896 if anyone is interested. still, he could of turned it off, but i dontt hink he is a hacker... my 2cents

[TAEdgE]

I'm pretty sure scouting a Command Centre proxied is COMPLETELY different to something in basically every game (hidden probes)

[Nemo]

Pulse, you're defending your mate. That's very honorable but not the thing to do. You stated your opinion. Let neutral people give theirs. As you see, people are doing their best to stay balanced and cautious. We all know that this is serious and we must be careful with our conclusions.

There are still 3 replays to analyze (with the one given by Flaunt). It will take time. Let's just stay calm meanwhile and wait for what it will tell.

[PulseSPR]

Sorry, I was so raging and pissed off a little bit.

I apologize for the raging-threads that I made.

P.S. deleted all my posts and statements

Quick Comments

wolf:

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PulseSPR

Sorry, I was so raging and pissed off a little bit.

I apologize for the raging-threads that I made.

P.S. deleted all my posts and statements

There was no need to delete your posts. You opinion is legit. I just advice you to stay calm in a situation that I perfectly understand, is stressful for you.

[pRoTimber]

Ok, I'll try to talk this time...

all pRotimber does is cheese. i matched him 6x in a row and he all ind me every game. his play is pretty predictable after awhile so maybe ghost really did know it was coming

I dont wanna go way back describing the game, I wouldnt call myself master of the game, but i think i understand a little bit about the game. Coming from no rts background, i learn the game by grinding strat after strat. Cheese is part of the game, as i've received many bm and friend's honest opinion(like roz) b4, i know my style is very aggravating, but like Nemo's signature "if ure not attacking ure probably losing", i've always felt this way since i started playing more than a year ago...so..when i dont cheese, some1 else cheeses me instead, so why not i do it 1st? like my teacher cobo and renson who always said "dont play their game, make them play urs instead" but they taught me this for poker instead, not sc2 lol. Many philosophy can be applied into sc2 as well.
So, since i played alot and also cheeses a lot, and also have played people who have experienced my cheese a lot before, is it fair to say if i can notice something doesnt feel right in a game? why out of thousands game i played i would suspect this guy?

Some cheese can be used only once on a player in a long time, or once in a lifetime, nirvana would understand this(my tvp cheeses). It was only the 1st day 1st time i met him on ladder, so unless he is a smurf account and he has played me b4 on other acc, my strat and playstyle should be pretty new to him. Even so, the 1st replay analysis(last game of the day) that was done showed that he sees nothing more than 8 marine, I dont wanna talk about the xelnaga towers anymore cuz previous games he never bothered to take control of them at all, it's ok if he doesn't wanna shoot my marine even once with his 2 stalker down the ramp, but not even shooting once from above the ramp with 5 stalkers+1 sentry and pulling back everything inside the mainbase is what i think that points out the most obvious. And so, i stopped after the game, I've concluded that these minimaphackers can only see pretty dots on the minimap but couldn't stop whats coming, like, can u stop an oncoming train? sometimes i felt they can see production tab too, but mayb thats just my imagination.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	mGMUSE:	DONT PLAY THEIR GAME MAKE THEM PLAY YOURS
	Nemo:	Best to talk mate :)

[pRoTimber]

i forgot to add, plussssssssss i am a terran

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

This is the only sentence needed mate, lol jokes <3 you

[Rageboredguy]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

sometimes i felt they can see production tab too, but mayb thats just my imagination.

Wow, this just describes a game i had before, guy responds with hydra and 6 spores without me showing any signs of muta in a zvz. I looked at the replay after and it was pretty obvious he was hacking. But this was a custom game on NA so i don't think there is any point going into more detail here.

But he never saw my spire or my mutas or any signs of me going mutas with his camera, but he definately knew i was going mutas, so i think there is a hack that shows a production tab aswell as reveal the map. sorry if that was a bit off topic.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Usefull info about the Hacking softwares

[mGMUSE]

Originally Posted by Rageboredguy

Wow, this just describes a game i had before, guy responds with hydra and 6 spores without me showing any signs of muta in a zvz. I looked at the replay after and it was pretty obvious he was hacking. But this was a custom game on NA so i don't think there is any point going into more detail here.

But he never saw my spire or my mutas or any signs of me going mutas with his camera, but he definately knew i was going mutas, so i think there is a hack that shows a production tab aswell as reveal the map. sorry if that was a bit off topic.

Production tab hacking is real, in fact it would be much more useful in sc2 than maphack.

[Rageboredguy]

A quick google search shows the same thing, production tab hacks. Pictures and what-not prove it. Wow that just makes it much more difficult to see if somebody is hacking if they are at all intelligent.

I mean, who is lucky and who is hacking?

[cure]

Originally Posted by Rageboredguy

A quick google search shows the same thing, production tab hacks. Pictures and what-not prove it. Wow that just makes it much more difficult to see if somebody is hacking if they are at all intelligent.

I mean, who is lucky and who is hacking?

Which is why more we need more then one replay to prove that people are hacking. Like everyone else has said, it's doubtful that someone that hasn't played at a high level will be able to read their opponent well. Well then again, thats what this thread is for. To analyse the replays that people have uploaded and to make a decision on whether or not the person is hacking.

[Nemo]

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Metapolis
Length : 15min22
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• 3:40 : Scouting Timber base, cliquing the gas, you can see a marine producing.

• 4:50 : This time you're poking and you are even surprised by the marines that have free shots on your stalker when you're not too much attentive.

• 6:43 : You're not Chronoing your gates this time. Only one but without real necessity. You seem taken by surprise indeed and your army is spread like the precedent time. You don't throw a single Force field. Might be the surprise or the fact that army seemed really weak.

• 7:17 you make a pursuit but retreat soon prudently.

• 7:41 : You're sending a probe, intercepted this time. You're surprised to be.

• 8:18 : You're taken completely by surprise by Timber army that flanks you. There's also a lot of SCV with his army too now.

• 9:05 : This time you're scouting again to know where Timber army is, fearing he's again trying to flank you. You're so obviously not Map Hacking in this game. There is no magic here, all your acts show that you're attentive to what COULD happen on this map.

• 9:11 to 9:25 : You ambush Timber army with luck but this time it's obvious it is true luck because you were super active with your army trying to see before striking while the other time you were waiting him behind the door.

• Then you counter and deny Timber natural.

• 12:21 : Scouting this time again.

• 13:01 : What do we have there ? A drone controlling the Xel'naga. First time I see you doing that and also first time I'm so sure you're not Map Hacking.

• 12:40 : Defending a potential drop while there were no drop coming from Timber (not a single Medivac produced yet). That's true game sense. You control all the routes to your base and you can regroup all your armies in case of danger.

• 13:32 : Even patrolling with 2 groups of stalkers while there was no danger. Interesting thing to note you still has no obs. Might indicate you don't like them because you don't make them even when absolutely clearly not MH.

• 13:30 : Again taken by surprise by Timber push, even though you had the Xel'Naga. He captures it and destroy your drone without reaction by you. Another proof of no Map Hack this game.

• 14:41 : Again, surprised by Timber push. Your army is not perfectly set this time. All the zealots are not in front, you have left some units behind to defend a drop that never existed.

• 15:21 : Timber last chance All-In fails and he gg. Immortals sure are good.

My own conclusion (and it's only a opinion)

• This game is so 100% free of Map Hack and this is so obvious ... I'm really reassured that I'm not seeing Map Hacks everywhere now after spending time on Evets replay then on yours ><. That also means that I'm even more confident in what i saw in the other 2 games and quite confirm it was indeed Map Hack in my opinion.
• That super strange to defend that drop zone with so many units when you have 2 Robo to produce 2 cheap obs that could have scouted that zone and enemy base instead of "preparing" with so expensive units for something that could never happen. You're and don't use observers at all ? I found that very suspect because it might indicate that you're too much used to have "artificial obs".
• The differences with the other game are too big in my opinion:
  • You were this time scouting a lot
  • You were genuinely surprised so many times, indeed Timber had his chances when in the other game he had none. All was going in your favor. It was "magic".

Well this is just my opinion. There is still 2 replay to watch and I can't make more than one each evening unfortunately. I will continue tomorrow.


Any external opinions and more importantly Ghost explanations are necessary.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

looks good :)

[|Erasmus|]

I haven't watched any of the replays, so please take what I'm saying right here with a grain of salt:

Most of the things mentioned in the first replay of ghost are not suspicious or unusual EXCEPT for the timing. Sending a probe out to make a pylon, then pulling it back to be safe is fine, but he did it as the army was approaching. Moving the stalker around is okay. Reapers are common, moving it back down once the standard reaper timing has passed is also just smart play (but it's said it looked like it was mirroring the path of another unit)...

Also spreading your defenses at the natural is just smart. Ghost timings are good, ESPECIALLY on maps like metal where you don't need vision up a ramp to emp the sentries/immortals. So you need to spread. If it's a standard timing push, he maybe looked at his clock and realised it's about right for that and needs to be defensive and spread his units.

It may have looked suspicious (the lack of scouting is rather huge, admittedly), and while I respect Nemo's analysis, I wouldn't feel comfortable accusing unless I see someone who really plays/understands TvP at a very high level comment on the timings as to whether they actually make any sense for ghost without being able to see the terran units.

[nirvAnA]

To Ghost: Thanks for coming out. Don't just post a few select replays, since you have games that old i assume you autosave all your games. Please post a replay pack of all your games this season, or at least 20 games around the time you played Timber (At the start of the season, not recent games after the allegations came out)

At the moment there is alot of suspicion, but if you are really keen to clear your name completely, this will be the fastest way, and people will also give you alot of respect for doing so. After doing so and if found not to be conclusive a formal apology will be made, investigation will stop completely and all posts regarding your case will be deleted.

Thanks

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I haven't watched any of the replays, so please take what I'm saying right here with a grain of salt:

Most of the things mentioned in the first replay of ghost are not suspicious or unusual EXCEPT for the timing. Sending a probe out to make a pylon, then pulling it back to be safe is fine, but he did it as the army was approaching. Moving the stalker around is okay. Reapers are common, moving it back down once the standard reaper timing has passed is also just smart play (but it's said it looked like it was mirroring the path of another unit)...

Also spreading your defenses at the natural is just smart. Ghost timings are good, ESPECIALLY on maps like metal where you don't need vision up a ramp to emp the sentries/immortals. So you need to spread. If it's a standard timing push, he maybe looked at his clock and realised it's about right for that and needs to be defensive and spread his units.

It may have looked suspicious (the lack of scouting is rather huge, admittedly), and while I respect Nemo's analysis, I wouldn't feel comfortable accusing unless I see someone who really plays/understands TvP at a very high level comment on the timings as to whether they actually make any sense for ghost without being able to see the terran units.

Erasmus. I'm really open to the idea of being wrong on the subject, really, but at least watch the replays before giving such an opinion. This is really a serious subject and you can't just comment on the games like that without putting at least some effort on analyzing it.

Beside, wolf, timber, V_andetta, delete12, Nirvana all play whether or and are and have given some opinions on those timings and analysis.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Erasmus. I'm really open to the idea of being wrong on the subject, really, but at least watch the replays before giving such an opinion. This is really a serious subject and you can't just comment on the games like that without putting at least some effort on analyzing it.

Beside, wolf, timber, V_andetta, delete12, Nirvana all play whether or and are and have given some opinions on those timings and analysis.

I didn't realise quite how many new posts there were... all those images make for insane amounts of scrolling. Maybe we should spoiler all the analysis with images so we can flick through a thread and open them when we want to read it.

But looking back at delete... he just said all the things I did. The timings were right. He pre split his army as soon as the units were idle. He moved his stalker at the time of a standard push after that 2 rax opening. The movements don't make sense to be actively stopping the reaper.

So he didn't scout and he randomly chronod warp gates. Since it's been brought up enough times, Timber has a reputation for being a bit cheesy. He does a lot of one base play. The 1 gate expand is a greedy(ish) build. He's unlikely to be behind in economy by doing it. So in a certain way, eliminating the scout and chronoing the warp gates after expanding makes sense against Timber specifically.

No scout at all in one game seems bad cause he could just randomly died to a cloak banshee, and as you said, he never makes observers. He obviously had a robo for immortals though, so maybe he is fine relying on chronoboosting one out if necessary.

Just going to second nirvana and say that his play is a bit odd. It's a little suspicious that a GM would do so little scouting when there's so much variation in builds that Terrans can do. The no scouting replay may have just been an off game. More replays would be nice.

[TAriiChard]

Hey guys,


There was an aLt (I think it was Shortizz. Correct me if I'm wrong) member the other day came into the TA channel asking us whether or not we've played against a masters zerg called SlayerSBoxeR. He suspected him of map hacking but without strong evidence he decided not to pursue with these allegations. So I asked around and TASolid came up with a replay (refer to below replay) where at 8:10, banelings are morphed and are rallied to a bunker that cannot be seen by SlayerSBoxeR.


http://drop.sc/85391


In this case, what do we do with players who aren't in the sc2sea scene?

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for being the original reporter of the culprist

[aLtShortizz]

Yup thats me Richard and heres my rep.

http://drop.sc/85395

Notice how he moves his OL abck into his base once i put down a spire. and 2 spores and 2 queens per hatch once i start making mutalisk. There was 0 scouting during all this btw. Yet, despite 0 map control he was able to spread his units into a concave before the final battle

PS: That guy was being extremely rude to both me and TASolid too. When i confronted me, he started bragging about the players he beat and how i was a noob for even suspecting him.

[TASlowHands]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Yup thats me Richard and heres my rep.

http://drop.sc/85395

Notice how he moves his OL abck into his base once i put down a spire. and 2 spores and 2 queens per hatch once i start making mutalisk. There was 0 scouting during all this btw. Yet, despite 0 map control he was able to spread his units into a concave before the final battle

Makes me lol if he is hacking. he has a 55.86% win ratio on sc2ranks, you would expect someone with black sheep wall on to be better

[Rockstar]

uhh my post didn't work? weird gear...

that one did... as I said

In this case, what do we do with players who aren't in the sc2sea scene?

Tell them how bad they must be to be a confirmed blatant hacker and still not be a GM.

Also, we can forward the replays to Blizzard as well as reporting him after each and every game you play with him.

[pRoTimber]

nobody is perfect, u cant say if he's maphacking why is he not doing this this this, if he sees this coming. u need to know where they're coming from, they coulda be in bronze if its not for the hack. Just played slayersboxer too, 0mapcontrol 0 scouting, looks over at fog of war, a pretty bad maphacker.

SlayerSBoxeR: rofl im a hacker now aye
then how did i lose?

[pRoTimber]

Originally Posted by TAriiChard

In this case, what do we do with players who aren't in the sc2sea scene?

nothing, just dont wanna get shit over our face after replying glhf, and also so that u could play a straight up strat that is hard to stop even though they know its coming

[Peleus]

More replays of SlayerSBoxeR map hacking - 7 pools and sends overlord, drones and zerglings all straight to my base on a 4 player map with no scouting.

http://drop.sc/85440

[aLtShortizz]

He ran off the Team Eve channel after bm-ing timber a bunch, i think this guy is pretty obvious alr.

Also, even if he doesnt participate much in our tournaments. Its good to know hes a hacker so ppl can play straight up macro/safe games against him.

[Rage]

Replays of SlayersBoxer

I don't have time to analyze them unfortunately but if anyone wishes to, here is evidence.

[Nemo]

I will watch one of your replays, but as you all already agree he is a proven Map Hacker, and as he's not from SEA, I won't enter as much in details and analyses so many games as in Ghost case. If it's at the contrary also necessary in your opinions, just tell me.

Edit: Rage, your links don't work for me.

[alwaysdryToT]

SlayerSBoxeR is in my clan, i will check these replays and ask him later.
u r welcom to provide replays, but please dont just suspect him without any evidence
send to ddvkid@gmail.com if u have some replays,thx

[SmirkToT]

one point from DarkNite,
in the game 'SlayerSBoxeR' vs TASolid
the zerg player did not select queens often but larva was autoly injected.

[TragicHero]

Originally Posted by PhoenixToT

one point from DarkNite,
in the game 'SlayerSBoxeR' vs TASolid
the zerg player did not select queens often but larva was autoly injected.

Same thing in my game with him recently. Auto inject

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=669

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by alwaysdryToT

SlayerSBoxeR is in my clan, i will check these replays and ask him later.
u r welcom to provide replays, but please dont just suspect him without any evidence
send to ddvkid@gmail.com if u have some replays,thx

There are multiple replays already linked in the thread, and we're certainly not suspecting without evidence, it's already been posted.

[wTlzq]

Originally Posted by TragicHero

Same thing in my game with him recently. Auto inject

watched the replay, the queens were not selected at all after the first tumor.

However, he didn't prepare much for the first wave of zealots to the third. but he deflected the warp prism harassment every time it came in without any overlord scout.

His decision making failed him terribly, trying to atk up a ram although he was max-ed lost him the game instantly

from my point of view: Definitely auto inject tool, 50:50 about using maphack as he made an effort to scout with overseer and ling(but still slightly suspicious as he checked protoss's base randomly early on in fog). IF hes hacking, reason why he isn't GM yet could be that his decision making and macro was poor.

[alwaysdryToT]

Our team have repeatedly examined these reps and confirmed that slayersboxer was hacking. He denied our accusations stating that his account was used by someone else. We however believe that this is just an excuse and we will not object to any punishments the SEA community decides to dish out to him.
Slayerboxer is officially removed from our team and we apologise to all the victims of this incident. ToT welcomes everyone to supervise our members and please do feel free to pm me any suspected hackers or bm incidents.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	Thanks for listening =) wish u all the best!
	Peleus:	Great clan response, well done - Responses like this gain more for the clan than a member hacking originally
	oGrNsCo:
	Hunter:	Such an excellent response from your team. Well done.
	Nemo:	Same ^ Well done (and less work for me haha)
	nirvAnA:
	Rage:
	TragicHero:
	EveMassacrisM:	Sounds like a sad and pathetic little kid. Wish I could get on to verbally abuse him.
	neon:
	Bash:
	Trinion:
	TCPLemminks:

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by alwaysdryToT

Our team have repeatedly examined these reps and confirmed that slayersboxer was hacking. He denied our accusations stating that his account was used by someone else. We however believe that this is just an excuse and we will not object to any punishments the SEA community decides to dish out to him.
Slayerboxer is officially removed from our team and we apologise to all the victims of this incident. ToT welcomes everyone to supervise our members and please do feel free to pm me any suspected hackers or bm incidents.

Glad to see that! I suspected him a week ago and wanted until I had more replays from other ppl, that's why I went into a few channels to ask around. Had I know that he is from ur clan, I would definitely consult u first.

[Nemo]

I created a stream today and we made the replay analysis of the third game with Apth. Unfortunatelly as it was my first time, my micro wasn't heard by Xsplit and we only hear Apth. As I was making most of the talking, it is not good enough even if hearing Apth is great in itself.

I will do it tomorrow morning again (10 hours from now). You will see, it's very interesting.

For those who are too impatient and want to hear Apth talking to a guy we don't hear : http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/304720299

[oGrNsCo]

why slayersboxer still playing using hacks. vsed him just then, map hack auto lava inject, auto creep spread. wtf? blizz seriously need to do something about it..

[VB_WhiplashJC]

Did you report him?

[oGrNsCo]

Originally Posted by VB_WhiplashJC

Did you report him?

more than 2 times =)

[Meatex]

i'm pretty sure they only pay attention if a LOT of people report the same player - could get a bunch of scc2sea players to report him with links to the relevant posts providing evidence here and he should get banned promptly

[SmirkToT]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

i'm pretty sure they only pay attention if a LOT of people report the same player - could get a bunch of scc2sea players to report him with links to the relevant posts providing evidence here and he should get banned promptly

His character code is 374.
just add him and report him

[alwaysdryToT]

He deleted all friends from ToT after being removed, lol what a cute kid

[[TA]LoSt]

He's not even that good anyway oGrNsCo, my experience from playing you is you'd rape him anyway! ^_^

Quick Comments

	oGrNsCo:	I lost tho.. he all ined right after i build robo
	iVnStinger:

[crAzerk]

OP Updated with SlayerSBoxer as confirmed hacker, thanks guys Now waiting for Ghost to provide his response to the accusations.

[AvPoker]

SlayerSBoxer is boring me with his blatant map-hack and complete lack of intelligence multiple times in ladder.
Take him out.

[souljah]

Check out GM list, StrayKIDS some where near the end of the list. Highly suspicious, all his recent games being less than 1 minute and with 0 minerals lost. 310 wins / 550 losses and he is in GM. Suspicious much?

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by souljah

Check out GM list, StrayKIDS some where near the end of the list. Highly suspicious, all his recent games being less than 1 minute and with 0 minerals lost. 310 wins / 550 losses and he is in GM. Suspicious much?

I support that too, hes been dropping like 5 games vs ToR player Jae. Smurfing maybe?

[VB_Rhuubarb]

I've heard of people bombing their MMR while in GM so they play lower level players while still being 'in GM'. I guess it's kinda like loss-botting in wc3 so that it was easier to farm wins for portraits.

[oGrNsCo]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

I've heard of people bombing their MMR while in GM so they play lower level players while still being 'in GM'. I guess it's kinda like loss-botting in wc3 so that it was easier to farm wins for portraits.

agrees very much, it works exactly as a loss bot

[PulseSPR]

here are my replays playing with ghost.

[PulseSPR]

more reps here

[PulseSPR]

and even more ending here with team games.

[PulseSPR]

moving on to 1v1. my winning 5.

[PulseSPR]

other replays that I lost and one more team game.

[PulseSPR]

my PvZ replays against him.

[PulseSPR]

Wanted to upload the NA server ones as well.

These replays were saved a long long time ago, might be 2 or 3 patches behind.

If he maphacks, that means he has been maphacking in NA, SEA and as well as KR server.

he JUST recently got a SEA account, like a month ago, because I bragged him to play in SEA.

He now wants to leave the SEA server and its scene, because he was never regarded or treated as a map hacker, and he is very disappointed. That's probably one of the reasons why he isn't replying.

These are all my replays playing with him.
There are a lot more games I played but I lost virtually all of them aginst him hes obviously a better player than me, and i dont save any loss ones lol
I saw the word "more replays the better" on the first page, so I'm uploading all of mine.

in fact i dont even think there are any obvious proofs in his games anyway

Hope this problem gets solved.

[PulseSPR]

Furthermore, I have gotten two analysis from aLtMrFool on "The Replay Feedback Thread", and they are both against Ghost. You will need to take a look at those as well. Thanks.

[Nemo]

Pulse,thanks for all this material. I really feel sorry for you because you might feel you drove your friend on this server only to get him in trouble. You must really feel sad about all this. You played so many games with him, it's a close friend I can really understand it's hard for you.

I have finally succeeded in making a video but without Apth, I'm really sorry because he's great and it's better to discuss it instead of speaking alone.

Here it is: http://www.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/304775842

My conclusion is that he also map hacked in this game. It's hard to conclude from only one game. It always can be insane luck. But from those 4 games, and one of them he didn't map hacked, I'm really confident now on what I saw. 3 games hacked and one not. His behavior and the results are so so different when he MH and when he doesn't it gives away the MH. He doesn't have much more "game sense" than anyone else of his level in game 2 where he's "game sense is insane in the other 3, in fact sometimes it's cannot even be named that way.

I have done my work now. I might have passed about 8 to 10 hours on this case and I have a conviction. I have made the "inquiry" job, it's now to the "Jury", people from sc2sea and to the "Judges", the Admins of SEA to say if he must be condemned.

I'm really sorry for you Pulse because you don't deserve to be in that situation, you're really a great guy. But I can tell you that that Map Hacking is killing his skill. That habit to not scout is dooming any hope he could have to improve from where he is.

If I can I will watch some of your replays chosen randomly and see if it gives me more informations.

Edit : This one : http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...7&d=1325677151

My voice stuterr a bit in this vod, it's not great great quality, but you can still understand what I want to say I think.

[Peleus]

That vod is super laggy / almost unwatchable for me, can you point out which replay you were analysing so I can have a look for myself? Cheers.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

That vod is super laggy / almost unwatchable for me, can you point out which replay you were analysing so I can have a look for myself? Cheers.

This one : http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...7&d=1325677151

[PulseSPR]

Oh no I can't access Twitch in china

[Peleus]

I watched this replay last night.

As a bit of a disclaimer, I know pulse who is in my clan has been posting in his defence, but I've got no relationship with ghost or motivation to defend or accuse him one way or the other.

In that replay I can't find anything overtly suspect, or once more enough to make me suspect a map hack. A slightly suspicious moment was his selecting his units before the attack came in, but other than that there wasn't anything I could pick up without explanation. Some points in his favour - Scouting probe was sent, and not only that but his player cam actually focused on the probe to examine his base, meaning he is trying to scout. Later on there was an engagement after trying to place a pylon at the watch tower but unfortunately it was caught out of position and killed by the army.

Sorry that I haven't watched your vod nemo, and you may have raised more issues, but I suppose on the flip side of things if it isn't obvious for a first watch / examination perhaps we're looking for things a bit too hard.

Again, inconclusive enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

P.s. If it is a hack, i don't think it's a map hack, I think it's a minimap hack. Any suspect things raised so far could be shown by being able to see his units on the minimap, with broad general unit movements apparent. It doesn't seem as though he is actually looking through the map however because his camera movements are always located within his base, not looking over fog of war, etc.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Sorry that I haven't watched your vod nemo, and you may have raised more issues, but I suppose on the flip side of things if it isn't obvious for a first watch / examination perhaps we're looking for things a bit too hard.

I fact no. I found that it's sometimes little things that can give away the most the Map Hacking.

Yes you missed 3 other points, the second of them being the most evident sign of Map Hack for me.

• The first is him sending his stalker behind his Natural while he couldn't know there was a SCV coming in that direction.
• The second is the way he reposition his 2 zealots an 1 stalker when Timber does a fake push with 2 marauder he doesn't see at all.
• The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

And the selection of units you saw is very suspect too. In fact I'm convinced after seing the 4 games and being able to see 3 super suspect games by all aspects and one where it's completely obvious by so many signs he's not hacking.


Try again to watch my Vod. You will understand why I'm so convinced. Anyway, it seems nobody cared to watch it because there is no comment. It's a shame but I understand that the dethgate has taken all the time of everyone. The sound is stuttering a bit but I'm still understandable I think.

I will make an usual Screenshot analysis tomorrow then.

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

P.s. If it is a hack, i don't think it's a map hack, I think it's a minimap hack. Any suspect things raised so far could be shown by being able to see his units on the minimap, with broad general unit movements apparent. It doesn't seem as though he is actually looking through the map however because his camera movements are always located within his base, not looking over fog of war, etc.

I confirm, he never looks into the fog of war. So I confirm it's only informations on the minimap that he can use, whether or not it's complete Map Hack. Evets wasn't looking in the FoW too but it was still confirmed Map Hack. It's just that it is more easy to restrain to look where you're not suppose to see. It's harder not to take into account at all or discretely what you are forced to see on the Minimap.

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Nemo

[*]The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

[xGKingdelete]

watching the VOD

For finding the SCV, I think that was just a coincidence. He knew the SCV had either returned home, or was hiding around for secondary scouting. So it was a good idea to check around his base for the SCV, and he did that as soon as possible (he built the nexus, and straight away sent the stalker to scout around).

I agree with the other things, though (I think, it's really hard to understand with the video stutter). I just find it really suspicious that he's playing blind in all of these games, no secondary scouts, no watchtowers, etc.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

Exactly.

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Yes, The only time he scouts in this game is when there is something useful to find. In the game N°3 (when he did not map hacked), he was scouting permanently and often without finding anything.

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

Humm, maybe my English betrayed me, I don't have the impression that I wanted to say that.

I think :

• When he Map hack => doesn't scout at all or is being super lucky with his only scout (stalker)
• When he doesn't Map Hack => He scout permanently and just have standard luck.
• Normal attitude when sending forward drone = Put Pylon and go forward with the drone.
  • Game 2 (MH): His drone is about to be attacked by timber army (but he doesn't see it in his vision) : He backs it instead of going forward.
  • Game 4 (MH): His drone is not going to be attacked this time and go forward (as normal).
  • So in game 2 he knew for sure he was going to be attacked without having the "normal" vision of it => Stronger evidence of Map hack

Edit : My posted didn't make sense, I edited it. Did it yesterday just before going to bed.

[Nemo]

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Xel'Naga Caverns
Length : 13min19
Version 1.4.2
Replay: http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...7&d=1325677151

Replay Analysis

It's the same game as the VoD a few posts ahead. As the sound quality is not good, I will make some screenshot to explain the points that are interesting considering the Map Hacking inquiry:

• 4:49 : He has not seen the SCV comingin the viciny of his base and still send the Stalker behind at the exact time the SCV is sent behind the base. As it is the only time in the game where he actually scout. I find this very suspect that he has the "luck" to fall on the SCV.

• 5:29: He prepares his units as to receive a attack by the left, the normal route of a attack on that map (direct). Legit. Let's forget it's again at the right time of Timber push with 2 Marauders on the normal route ... But don't forget the Chrono of the sentry too at the exact right time.

• 5:51 : He then leaves his units and suddenly reorganizes them to receive a attack by the right without seing anything. When we see everyone's view, we see that Timber hve rerouted his Marauders to push by the right in the same time. For me that's a evidence of Map Hack. At this point of the inquiry, I don't believe anymore at so many insane luck or coincidence anymore ...

• 8:32 : Timber is on the point of arriving at Ghost base. Units of Ghost are not selected. He is attending to his base. He selected his army 2 times in the last 30 sec less than 1 sec.

• 8:35 : Still seing nothing and Timber army just on the verge of engaging, Ghost select all his army and do nothing with them until Timber engages.

• 10:49 : This time the forward probe go ahead after making his pylon and don't retreat to his army. It's the normal behaviour. That enlighten the fact that in game 2, he did retreated it because it was threatened by Timber army without having any vision on this ennemy army.

My own conclusion (and it's only a opinion)

Se 2 posts ahead. For me the 4 games show that he map hacked in 3 of them and didn't in the game number 3.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	thanks for the analysis nemo!
	pRoTimber:	ty and apth for your time and effort to analyze the game, pointed out some stuffs that i didnt even notice
	SmirkToT:	since he's toss I havent realized he's a cheater haha

[Rage]

Originally Posted by oGrNsCo

why slayersboxer still playing using hacks. vsed him just then, map hack auto lava inject, auto creep spread. wtf? blizz seriously need to do something about it..

so its pretty fun that this loser isn't banned yet and in fact just got promoted to ******* GM

what great fun the SEA ladder is lately!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Rage

so its pretty fun that this loser isn't banned yet and in fact just got promoted to ******* GM

what great fun the SEA ladder is lately!

If everyone that he plays on ladder quickly checks that the game have indeed been hacked by him and then report him for every game, I think that there is better chances that Blizzard check his case. Just pass the word to every player he could meet on ladder.

[ChaynesOre]

I don't usually notice hackers in game but after the EvetS stuff I've kept an extra vigil in a way..

Anyway, just played against this no-name (?) like me and it felt a bit off to me. PvZ on XNC - I went for a speed rush, he went an FFE/sortof thing..
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249219

Two things I thought were odd during the game: 1) He never scouted my main; 2) He had cannons prepped in his main way earlier than I typically find is normal doing this build.

Watching the replay: 1) He clicks on my base through the fog several times (not to scout so he's not there to issue a move command); 2) He clicks on my lings as they're rallying across the map, and at the spot where they gather several times; 3) He seems to re-actively change up his build (i.e. building the pylon earlier in his main, which I don't think is normal when doing what he was doing); 4) The "tells" die down a bit during the action, then he clicks on my stuff a few more times when he tries to re-macro up.

Also, copy pasting the chat I had with him after game 'cause why not..

CraftKing: cheeser king
CraftKing has reconnected.
You: i dont know, what is wrong with me?
CraftKing: ok
nvm
You: you're maphacking arent you?
CraftKing: no i dint i check your expansion u din expand so i guess u rush
You: nah i'm watching the rep, you keep looking in fog of war at my shit
CraftKing: my probe scout
You: and there was no reason for you to cannon your main like that
CraftKing: u din expand
You: you didn't know lings were there
CraftKing: man u see the replay ok
You: gonna report this
CraftKing: i din hack u just do report thank you
u rush ok i saw u
You: g'night
CraftKing: no expand in 2 minit i know u rush

Any thoughts?

EDIT: I've had two other guys in FaDe agree with me.. and you know how hard it is for us to admit there's a hacker :P lol jks -- but yeh, should probably add him to the list even though he's a pretty bad player and a no-name

Quick Comments

Nemo:

For exposing cheaters and doing preciselly

[ToRSpartaz]

I hate that CraftKind.... 2 Gate Proxys me every bloody game... he may be a map hacker from the watching the reps.

Quick Comments

	ChaynesOre:	now that you mention it, that may have been what he was doing with his original probe before seeing my early pool...
	ROOTPetraeus:	Moar spelling mistakes :DDD

[oGrNsCo]

Originally Posted by Rage

so its pretty fun that this loser isn't banned yet and in fact just got promoted to ******* GM

what great fun the SEA ladder is lately!

yea bro, this is so bull..wats the point of playing rts if u can hack... even any game

[wTlzq]

Hi guys, rank 200 GM StrayKIDS is using some mass-ladder leaving hack. Hes onto 1K+ games now. Kindly report him thx~

[ChaynesOre]

I've got an update regarding CraftKing who I posted about 4 posts up (http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=152).

REPLAY: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249299

Played him again just now and there's just more of the same. He scouts me first, no surprise and sort of sends a probe in for a mandatory "look I sent probe scout so I didn't hack" thing, but doesn't really scout with it (see in replay). He then leaves and continues to have his camera over my base at 1:17, 2:53, 3:30, 4:10, 4:42, 7:12, etc... He also sends his probe down immediately after seeing my expo to try to cannon it. Has a stupid amount of cannons at his main when I get there (although a good player would suspect an all-in anyway) - However!! These all drop as soon as my army moves out across the map.

Comments on the game itself:
ZvP on Antiga. I open up early-ish pool and throw a spine up for defense because of the other person's comment above saying that he always double proxygate's. Then I just go for a roach/ling all in figuring he's most likely gone FFE after I haven't seen zealots for awhile, because I don't want to play him for very long if he's hacking -- I wasn't sure how to play him, knowing he was looking at everything I did :S

He's a very poor player and seems to change his mind about what he's doing a lot. I think he's only started hacking and is struggling with how to use the information and not give it away.

Also had a chat with him after game again, pasted because it's hillarious, lol:

You: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=152
CraftKing has reconnected.
CraftKing: what is that
You: hahahaha
oh man, more evidence
CraftKing: ??
You: your account is defo getting banned
CraftKing: im not hacker this is not my acc
and i din hack
You: play as many games as possible mate coz the blizzard ban hammer is coming
two games i've played you, you hack
CraftKing: are u sure u wrong person?
You: nope
why would you keep looking at my base through fog of war?
CraftKing: i think u wrong
You: unless you could see it with a hack
you do this many times
CraftKing: watever man u said i hack i got probe scout
You: no response?
CraftKing: watever man i got probe scout
You: lol god damn it's a brick wall
for a hacker, you play terribly
CraftKing: u noob la
my probe go check u said i hack
wtf are u
LOL
i wont get baneed
blizzarf got my reply
he said i din hack
haha
You: lol, blizzard said you don't hack?
what?
he?
CraftKing: blizzard reply me about that .. he said i din hack
You: lol okay I'm sure they did
where are you from and how old are you?
CraftKing: blizzard said my probe scout..
You: rofl
could you paste what they said?
I'm curious
just any complete sentence or two will do

Quick Comments

TAXanT:

What a noobslice.

[EveLoire]

^ his whole argument about him not hacking is with that probe scout........... hilarious... hope all these hackers get banned asap

[Zealo]

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

[crAzerk]

I have reviewed this replay :

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249299

And it seems to be conclusive proof of hacking - the constant glancing into the fog of war at your base is a giveaway sign of maphack.

Thus, added CraftKing to the 'Confirmed Hackers' list, go Blizz report him too. One game of blatant maphack suffices for me to classify him as such, if nirvana or other mods feel otherwise feel free to say so and shift him to 'suspected'.

Quick Comments

	ChaynesOre:	ty, I added a second replay after catching him again on ladder today
	nirvAnA:

[Frogmite]

Could someone have a closer look to Craftking replays please?

He's playing in our TCP team for SEACL and i would like to be sure he's not guilty of hacking.
He's a new player to the clan so i can't vouch for him.

If we can't find enough proofs i'll let him play and hope that everybody will not accuse him of cheating.

If it's confirmed he is hacking, i'll ban him from the clan and the SEACL.

Quick Comments

ChaynesOre:

I've had 6 fade people look at it and agree with me but I'll let you guys double check if necessary.

[crAzerk]

@Frogmite In the replay which I stated, it's obvious he is hacking, with his multiple glances into the Fog of War at his opponent's base. I don't know about other replays, but I assume one time maphack is sufficient to say that he is a maphacker?

EDIT: Lolol how much does maphack tell you? Does it show Production tab too? 5:50 when he moves his Probe blindly in to cannon the Zerg player, he then realizes lings are about to pop (with no vision whatsoever) and cancels his Pylon and tries to run away.

Later, when the Zerg player starts production of 9 Roaches, he responds with a Stargate - it shouldn't be a normal build order since he's only one 2 gas.
7:30 - adds additional cannons with no scouting whatsoever, in preparation for the Roach/Ling allin.

Pretty conclusive just based on this replay, if he protests or anyone protests it's insufficient evidence I'll have a look at others too.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Props for making precise inquiries

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Could someone have a closer look to Craftking replays please?

He's playing in our TCP team for SEACL and i would like to be sure he's not guilty of hacking.
He's a new player to the clan so i can't vouch for him.

If we can't find enough proofs i'll let him play and hope that everybody will not accuse him of cheating.

If it's confirmed he is hacking, i'll ban him from the clan and the SEACL.

Actually, just looked this up for you. It isn't the same guy as in your team (unless that's a second account). The guy I played is "CraftKing" not "CraftKings". I tried adding "CraftKing" and the character code specified in the team roster and it didn't work, but added your guy with an "s" and it did. He plays protoss too and has many more games so either it's a second account or he's just unlucky enough to have a very similar name to the hacker..

EDIT: He does mention in the after-game chat I had with him that it's not his main account.. Not enough to convict your player though. Probably just keep an eye on him or ask him about it. The hacker had a very "specific" way of chatting so that might be a tell in itself if you have a chat to your guy?

[Rage]

Originally Posted by Zealo

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

sounds like he was just messing around with you with the pause thing and I nearly always scout cross positions first on a lot of maps.

Quick Comments

ChaynesOre:

Yeh, scouting cross first allows you to determine whether you play a more macro game or not (any other position) very quickly, so that's not entirely damning.

[krycek]

Originally Posted by chaynesore

Actually, just looked this up for you. It isn't the same guy as in your team (unless that's a second account). The guy I played is "CraftKing" not "CraftKings". I tried adding "CraftKing" and the character code specified in the team roster and it didn't work, but added your guy with an "s" and it did. He plays protoss too and has many more games so either it's a second account or he's just unlucky enough to have a very similar name to the hacker..

EDIT: He does mention in the after-game chat I had with him that it's not his main account.. Not enough to convict your player though. Probably just keep an eye on him or ask him about it. The hacker had a very "specific" way of chatting so that might be a tell in itself if you have a chat to your guy?

our member IS CraftKing and we are building evidence on him and it isnt looking good, no details at thuis time but lets say the story is pretty much like yours.

EDIT: here is a match between a friend and him
http://terranimba.com/replay/YxddD5URmD

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Zealo

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

I don't think this is at all conclusive. IMO he probably just hates TvP and was making jokes about it with the pause spam, unfortunately I can't see pauses in the replay. Cross position scouting is super normal, I do it myself....

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by TCPkrycek

our member IS CraftKing and we are building evidence on him and it isnt looking good, no details at thuis time but lets say the story is pretty much like yours.

Interesting.. I'm 30s into the replay you posted and it seems like the same blatant business already. If he's the same guy signed up for your team then that's unfortunate Good luck with handling it -- I'd like to think for your team's sake I'm wrong but oh well, if I'm not, it's good to get it sorted early before the competition begins. Still got until tomorrow to replace him I think

EDIT: OMG, it doesn't get any more obvious than when the zerg does the in base hatch and he goes to pull all his probes without seeing it...

[krycek]

Originally Posted by chaynesore

Interesting.. I'm 30s into the replay you posted and it seems like the same blatant business already. If he's the same guy signed up for your team then that's unfortunate Good luck with handling it -- I'd like to think for your team's sake I'm wrong but oh well, if I'm not, it's good to get it sorted early before the competition begins. Still got until tomorrow to replace him I think

hey man seen the entire replay he spots the proxy hatch in his base stares at it for like 4 seconds at the 4 minute mark, then watches chases base and then suddenly goes double starport when he see's the spire and just so happens to put his units in the rigght position when they come. lastly THERE are no OBSERVERS made, and this is a ladder game. BTW i watched in his camera view and everytime he looked at his base i looked too here is the link again

http://terranimba.com/replay/YxddD5URmD

thing is we only recruited him the otherday for the SEACL sigh`

Quick Comments

Frogmite:

you're TCP pride man

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by TCPkrycek

hey man seen the entire replay he spots the proxy hatch in his base stares at it for like 4 seconds at the 4 minute mark, then watches chases base and then suddenly goes double starport when he see's the spire and just so happens to put his units in the rigght position when they come. lastly THERE are no OBSERVERS made, and this was during a friendly match, not ladder so just think if he can do it there not that hard on ladder. BTW i watched in his camera view and everytime he looked at his base i looked too here is the link again

http://terranimba.com/replay/YxddD5URmD

It's hillarious, lol.. He's a very poor player I think. Maybe he'd play better without the overload of information because I get the sense he struggles and spends too much time thinking how to show he's not hacking and changing his mind on his build based on the information, rather than just doing what he does and dealing with it later as a normal player does (he's consistently cancelled a lot of stuff in all replays).

I think it's fairly conclusive at this point. That third replay trumps the two I posted, and I didn't think that would have been possible. If this is indeed your player Frogmite, he should prolly go (though the character code thing still confuses me -- does he have several accounts?)

[syfChase]

Hi, I'm Chase, the player in the replay Krycek posted. I just want to add some evidence, if you cannot be bothered going through the whole replay.
1: By 1:30 he has viewed my base through the Fog Of War 3 Times for no apparent reason
2: At 3:39 He scolls up to view the Proxy Hatchery that was placed only 20 seconds before. He continues to look at it for a total of 5 times until 4:20. He starts to build gateways within his main base and saves chronoboost to deal with it.
3: This should confirm any doubts you have about if he is hacking. at 4:20 he selects about ¾ of his probes and starts to move them up to attack the hatchery [He has not even scouted that it was there with a probe yet]. Before the probes get close enough to sight the Hatch he pulls them back, sending only one to actually scout it before pulling the rest of his probes.
4:Various times looking at my main to see what I have, plus views my natural after I sent my drone down to expand.
5:Blind Counters my Muta play with double stargate, getting Pheonix over Voidrays. (Keep in mind he has not scouted since the initial probe scout) Positions forces perfectly to deal with the harass
6:15:15 Reacts to a small runby attack by looking through the Fog of War.
7:Looks at my third through Fog of War when it has not been scouted and checks my Army composition

There may be some other little things, but these are the ones I noticed. It was a ladder game too, I feel for others that may have fallen for these cheap tricks
Edit: I did not know he was actually hacking at the time. I thought he just had an Observer on me, but scouting my base with an Overseer brought up nothing. He did not even have a Robotics Facility. If Krycek did not tell this to me it may have just slid under the radar. Props to him

[Nemo]

Frogmite. Best to make him admit and apologize now. That won't change any sanction because he's more that cornered already, but it would be better so he has a better chance to redeem himself one day.

[crAzerk]

What are the odds, I just faced him on ladder! Lolol didn't even realize it until he typed 'GG' at the end. I beat him in a TvP haha.

I shall just watch the replay again and see if I spot anything suspicious, didn't notice any blatant maphack while I was playing.

3:12 - Glances into the fog without any Probe scout at my exact location, on a 4 player map.

4:15 -makes a good show of using his Probe to scout my FE too, deliberately clicking towards my building instead of running up my ramp.

4:57, 5:22 - Glances into fog at my base

5:00~ - makes a show of moving his Stalker up my ramp and immediately pulling it back down after a few rounds of Bunker fire.

6:08, 6.53 - glances at my base in fog

7:47 - glances into fog , looking at my pack of marauders moving out of my base

9:07 - looks into fog at my impending push

10:30 - gets his Colussus stuck between buildings like a pro

11:08 - glances into fog,
11:40 - builds a cannon at key points to stop drops the second I load up my 2 Medivacs for a drop
12:20 - warps in 3 stalkers at where my Medivacs were headed
12:40 - loses 9 workers because he can't multitask and though his maphack stopped one drop the other drop killed 9 workers

13:09, 15:15 - glances into fog

16:00 reacts uber slowly to a drop to his 3rd and almost loses his nexus at 73 HP !

17:25 - diversion drop at his natural pulls his whole army there, and my real drop hits his 3rd to snipe the nexus

18:00 - glances at fog

(We had a big clash in the middle of the map somewhere here, his army positioning was pretty crap so I won, and continued to rally forward for the win. Terran is really strong.)

22:48 - I MULE-drop him after he doesn't leave even though being half my supply.


22:50 - He GGs and leaves

Replay here

Conclusion:
Pretty obvious maphacking, with the constant looking into Fog. He even tries to 'sell' it that he's not maphacking with his obligatory probe scout and stalker poke.
No observer produced at all, no surprise since he had maphack.
Lesson learnt? How to beat a maphacker - Just play better than him ^^ Oh, and using helps too


~as said before, Craftking added to 'Confirmed Maphacker' list in the OP

Quick Comments

	krycek:	like a pro gj man
	nirvAnA:
	TCPLemminks:	Thanks for confirming this

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

10:30 - gets his Colussus stuck between buildings like a pro

lol ^^

Just curious.. was he under investigation before I posted or nah?

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by chaynesore

lol ^^

Just curious.. was he under investigation before I posted or nah?

I think you were the first to expose him. Big props to you.

[Frogmite]

Ok for the information.

There are two different players:

CraftKing - map hacker
CraftKings - the guy in our roster

We are investigating the possibility that those two guys are the same as we've seen Craftking in our in-game clan channel a bit earlier in the evening.

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Ok for the information.

There are two different players:

CraftKing - map hacker
CraftKings - the guy in our roster

We are investigating the possibility that those two guys are the same as we've seen Craftking in our in-game clan channel a bit earlier in the evening.

For what it's worth (though I assume not much) I chatted with him tonight and got him to confirm that he is indeed the same person, having two accounts, and a part of your clan, and another (I forget which, but if that info is useful, you know).. I copied the ch at but blizzard truncated teh top half of it but I can link the rest of it if you guys like. It's the same guy.

[Rage]

the guy SlayerSBoxeR has not played since 8th January - perhaps he has finally been banned?

[Flamga]

Originally Posted by Rage

the guy SlayerSBoxeR has not played since 8th January - perhaps he has finally been banned?

What did he do? I have played him a few times on ladder but he sucked hard... Although he also called my build without ever scouting it, and stating the build in chat to me :/

[Rage]

Originally Posted by Flamga

What did he do? I have played him a few times on ladder but he sucked hard... Although he also called my build without ever scouting it, and stating the build in chat to me :/

Listed in OP. Confirmed maphacker + auto-inject mod.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by Flamga

What did he do? I have played him a few times on ladder but he sucked hard... Although he also called my build without ever scouting it, and stating the build in chat to me :/

I don't want to sound harsh or whatever, but at least read the thread before replying. Saying 'what did he do?' when it's all listed above you...kind of stupid isn't it?

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	You don't want to sound harsh but your calling him stupid...
	FaDeBadger:
	Rage:	last comment doesn't really add anything to your point and is a bit unnecessary

[CHoBo(kice)]

Nah SlayerSBoxer still around, I vsed him took 1 off him

[Scope_IV]

Hey guys, I was playing a game on ladder and I came across this zerg. Throughout the game there was some pretty sus things he did i will outline them all below with timings for the replay. I'm not sure what to do about this but i feel it was pretty sus and i would like your opinion on it

http://drop.sc/94953

1) He never scouts, doesn't spread overlords out and never sends lings or anything to get information.
2) I did a FFE into double stargate phoenix, he went straight to hydra off 3 base- very risky but not super sus or anything but with the huge amount of not scouting I very well could have been doing a 7 gate timing push and won.
3) At the time 23:33 he looks straight at my nexus where he has no vision off, also where the mothership is buildling
4) he then preceeds to go up to the top left hand corner and waits right until the mothership is about to pop to fly in.
5) the whole time he had control of his corruptors starring at them like he was waiting for the mothership to come out. At the time of 24:12 through to 24:27 where he snipes the mothership.

Thanks

Looking forward to your feedback

Scope

[FvRphoneheha]

OK, I've looked at the fiction replay.

1) Never scouting is bad, but doesn't necessarily mean hacking. He does do the normal overlord to the right. Not really suspicious.
2) As you say, weird strats (Hydra off 3 base) are suspicious, but that's not enough reason to suggest hacking. Not really suspicious.
3) Yep, happens to be the nexus which you were building the mothership from. However, he could plausibly be looking at your base to remind himself what tech you have. Done it myself before. Not really suspicious.
4) Ok, gets a bit weird here. Still, plausible that he could be planning to fly through, see if any colossi/motherships are sitting idle.
5) Ok, THIS IS SUSPICIOUS. He spends like, a good 5 seconds waiting, not moving the screen, until the mothership pops. THIS IS SUSPICIOUS.

I'd wait for more opinions, but based PURELY on point 5, I'd say he's hacking. Doesn't look like he got lucky, it looks like he has production tab hack and WAITED till the mothership popped, and kept camera on corrupters so as not to miss the timing...

My opinion: Hacker

Edit: Oh wow you won? Congrats! Though his cringe-worthy handling of the warp prism harass and poor unit composition choices almost make me wonder if he wasn't hacking... Or maybe he was just that bad/trying to hide his villainy >.<

[TAEdarus]

1. Got hydras up before much else. Quite odd.
2. Looking at the Nexus, while it could have been "checking tech", was odd.
3. Watching the ruptors in a random location near a Nexus he should have thought was dead then waltzing in AS the mothership popped and killing it... Decisive for me.

Verdict: Maphax

[ROOT`iaguz]

Get more replays. You're going to need more then just one.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Get more replays. You're going to need more then just one.

Not compulsory. If one replay is incriminating enough, the guy might be placed on the black list just with that. Btw, what are your own conclusions about the replay ?

[Scope_IV]

Well, from being in the match i wasn't too concerned about anything until he sniped my mothership. When he flew in right when it popped alarm bells rang. He made a lot of mistakes and some things that i would have thought somebody hacking would do like intercept the warp prism and such he didn't do. From looking over the replay many times and showing my friends and asking for their input i feel that he was indeed hacking.

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Not compulsory. If one replay is incriminating enough, the guy might be placed on the black list just with that. Btw, what are your own conclusions about the replay ?

Having more replays proving this stuff eliminates coincidence and flukes.

Sure there might be some blatant stuff, but unless its 200% clear, then you will need more replays

That's just how it is

[Scope_IV]

Well, I would love to have more replays but I have only played him once :S I was hoping that maybe other people had played him but that is cool. I understand that with accusations must come large amounts of evidence.

[crAzerk]

I'll have a quick look

What league is he in btw?

1) The build is a weird one , but his droning is not optimal either. Thus doesn't say anything much, just that he doesn't know his openers well.
He doesn't glance into fog or whatever, and his reactions to your SG weren't immediate (e.g. putting down an evolution chamber upon seeing your SG) This is assuming he uses some Production tab hack, because he never glances at your base.

2) ~9 mins he loses his OL to your phoenix, doesn't even pull OLs back when your Phoenix are out.

3) No pre-emptive Hydra placement to your Phoenix harass

4) 23:33 You are right that Mothership snipe is HIGHLY sus. In fact, it's plain retard, there's no other explanation for doing that.

Putting him on 'Suspected hackers' list, until I get the green light to 'promote' him to confirmed hacker.

Guys, watch the replay, just skip to 23:33 and watch from there onwards. There's no 'fluke' or 'coincidence' or 'luck' in that move, it's pretty blatant - He moves his Corruptors into the main base of the Protoss for no apparent reason , which was perfectly timed for the popping out of the Mothership.

[Scope_IV]

He is in high diamond. I am in low/mid masters somewhere around there.

Yeah nothing really seemed that hackerish when I was playing until the mothership bit. That bit really freaked me out and made me watch the replay after.

[iVnStinger]

Ok, as I haven't spoken to FictioN yet I can't tell you guys anything at the moment. I'm sorry if I might come off as biased in the discussion as he is my own member but for now all I can say is that I have to agree the thing at 23.33 is pretty suspicious... I will talk to him tommorow to get more details.

[Maynarde]

Kalikah was laddering as as she does today on stream. She came up against a guy called "CCKPUNCHER". When she popped as a , and he types "hello zerg"

.........

Checked profile after the game, not a single 1v1 loss in the past few weeks and 20+ wins recently. If you come accross this dick, report his hackin' ass and get him banned from our precious ladder.

Proof: http://www.twitch.tv/kalikah/b/305931431?t=16m42s

[EveVendetta]

Regarding the fiction case, I disagree with iaguz and system. I don't see any need to provide more replays. 1 replay is sufficient as long as the action is conclusive. The perfect timing of sniping the mothership and just waiting for it to pop is more than sufficient in my opinion.

Of course, it is up to you admins if you guys have set it as a ground rule!

Quick Comments

EveMassacrisM:

This is correct. People should stop wasting posts and f***ing watch the replay before making pointless comments.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by EveVendetta

Regarding the fiction case, I disagree with iaguz and system. I don't see any need to provide more replays. 1 replay is sufficient as long as the action is conclusive. The perfect timing of sniping the mothership and just waiting for it to pop is more than sufficient in my opinion.

Of course, it is up to you admins if you guys have set it as a ground rule!

On the evidence of a single replay, one could still argue his actions are coincidental.

Two at least.

[Nemo]

We have watched the replay with Apth : http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/305969359

We are pretty convinced it's Map Hacking. Apth would still want another replay to be 100% sure. For me it's enough proof. Without explanations, the guy should go to the Black List.

[WillChen]

Hey guys, I am the owner of the account 'iVnFictioN' and I admit it was hacking after looking at the replay, however it was not me playing on the account. That night I was at a friends place and played one or two games on the account before giving it over to one of my friends to play on before I went to get something to eat with a group of friends. This is when I believe he thought to himself 'oh it's not my account so lets have some fun with hacks'. Anyway I will fully accept any punishment as I should've known better than to leave my account on (he has previously hacked in CS), and sorry for any inconvenience this has caused, especially to scope who was in that game
EDIT: and i have asked my friend and he admits that he was hacking on my account

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by WillChen

Hey guys, I am the owner of the account 'iVnFictioN' and I admit it was hacking after looking at the replay, however it was not me playing on the account. That night I was at a friends place and played one or two games on the account before giving it over to one of my friends to play on before I went to get something to eat with a group of friends. This is when I believe he thought to himself 'oh it's not my account so lets have some fun with hacks'. Anyway I will fully accept any punishment as I should've known better than to leave my account on (he has previously hacked in CS), and sorry for any inconvenience this has caused, especially to scope who was in that game
EDIT: and i have asked my friend and he admits that he was hacking on my account

WillChen, I know it's hard to admit to maphacking, but if you did it yourself, better to change your version now before 10 people come with replay showing you hacking.

If not, just give your last 10 replays (made before the first accusation) (and all of them, we will check in your history) so we can check that you were not hacking and it was indeed your friend.

But believe me it's 100 times better for you to tell the truth right now.

Quick Comments

	FvRphoneheha:	Yep, if it's your mate understood, but if it was you come clean early rather than get caught
	EveVendetta:	heard that kinda story too many times before

[WillChen]

I will upload recent games of myself playing now, where do i upload to?

[Apth]

Originally Posted by WillChen

I will upload recent games of myself playing now, where do i upload to?

SC2SEA, or
SC2 Reps, or
Drop.sc

[WillChen]

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=698
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=699
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=700
I have to go to math tutor now, if needed I can upload more later when I get home

[Apth]

Originally Posted by WillChen

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=698
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=699
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=700
I have to go to math tutor now, if needed I can upload more later when I get home

Game vs Scope
Hotkeys: Hatches on 1, Queens on 5, sporadically used unit hotkeys
APM: 107 average end of game

Game on Antiga
Hotkeys: Hatches on 1, Queens on 5, sporadically used unit hotkeys
APM: 106 average end of game

Game on Shakuras
Game length 5min, too short to draw conclusions. However;
Hotkeys: Hatches on 1
APM: 84 end average end of game

Game on Entombed Valley
Hatches on 1, Queens on 5, sporadically used unit hotkeys
APM: 101 average end of game

What I mean by sporadic: most of the time, the vast majority of his units are not hotkeyed. There are also no 'set' hotkeys, ie Lings on 2, Mutas on 3.

Conclusion
I'm reasonably convinced the person playing in the game vs Scope is the same person playing the 3 games that have been uploaded.

[WillChen]

with all due respect Apth,
I taught my friend how to play zerg and he finds it convenient to use the same hotkey setup as me, also in regards to APM i believe that around 100ish APM is average for high diamond/low masters level players, certainly nearly everyone I know plays at around 90-110 APM

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

im masters with 60 apm, and im close to gm :)

[FaDeBadger]

With all due respect WillChen, you can see how your situation seems very "convenient" after being caught hacking.

We can only go off the evidence we have, and it's not looking good for you.

[WillChen]

yes, I do concede it doesn't look very good at the moment and everything looks very coincidental, but I insist that this is purely coincidental and not a fabricated story, that being said I would like to ask what you guys are looking for and how I can prove my innocence

[Apth]

Originally Posted by WillChen

with all due respect Apth,
I taught my friend how to play zerg and he finds it convenient to use the same hotkey setup as me, also in regards to APM i believe that around 100ish APM is average for high diamond/low masters level players, certainly nearly everyone I know plays at around 90-110 APM

You not only have the same hotkey setup, but the same tendency not to hotkey your units? I find it hard to believe a Diamond/Masters player doesn't hotkey their units in the first place.

That said, I see where you're coming from.

Post the two latest replays you have before the original post made by Scope - latest, mind, don't be selective - so we have five in total to review.Actually just do what lzq says in the post below. His idea is better.

[wTlzq]

Maybe you could get that friend to come forward, since he obviously plays sc2 as well, with his own account and replays, so that people in this thread can compare the skill level and "hotkeys" with the one you provided.
-If you say he dont have his own account and only play sparingly on yours then it really looks suspicious.

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Good thoughts dude.
	iVnStinger:	Good idea!

[WillChen]

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=701
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=702
these two combined with the three before make up my five games before I stopped playing

[WillChen]

@lzq
when I can get in touch with him I will ask him to send me some replays of him playing, just to be sure though; he plays on the NA server instead of SEA so does that present any sort of a problem or is that fine?

[Apth]

Originally Posted by WillChen

@lzq
when I can get in touch with him I will ask him to send me some replays of him playing, just to be sure though; he plays on the NA server instead of SEA so does that present any sort of a problem or is that fine?

No problems there. Two or three of his latest replays.

[Scope_IV]

Ok say you said that you were at your friends house and played 1 or 2 games, you actually played 5 games across the space of time of 3-4 hours excluding the hacker friend game. On the side of note of his. I would like to obs a game of his friend playing WITH fiction in the game. Just to stop from playing on his NA account and saying it is is friend. If his friend cannot produce the same style play as we have seen over numerous replays...well then...

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Apth

No problems there. Two or three of his latest replays.

If he does get his 'friend' from the US to send replays, he'll also need to submit some of his own replays from the NA server also.

This ensures he has a separate ID from his 'friend' in the US, rather than simply a different name he is passing off as a friend.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

If he does get his 'friend' from the US to send replays, he'll also need to submit some of his own replays from the NA server also.

This ensures he has a separate ID from his 'friend' in the US, rather than simply a different name he is passing off as a friend.

You are of course, correct, and proof that I need more goddamn caffeine.

[wTlzq]

Wait how did u get hold of the replays if u played it at your friend's house?

edit: ignore if im not making sense, i may have misinterpreted something

Quick Comments

TABag:

+1 for explanation.. AFAIK, the replays aren't based on a cloud system..

[Scope_IV]

^ that makes complete sense

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by lzq

Wait how did u get hold of the replays if u played it at your friend's house?

Apparently he cannot contact his friend but he can get the replays...

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Ok guys, I am the iVn manager (yeahh post count!!!)

I am working to resolve this issue and figure out what has happened with our player FictioN/WillChen.

Hopefully we can figure out exactly what happened and bring down a suitable punishment if rules were infringed with our player being found suitably guilty for cheating.

I am sorry for those who claim to have been victims of a maphack like attack from our player, I apologize for this inconvenience and will do what I can to make things right.

Thankyou for your time, I will also assist in investigating this issue as well.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Thank you
	nirvAnA:

[Sola]

Originally Posted by iVnThatGuyDoMo

I will show a basic level of respect for all members of the community

If I have different opinions, I will share them maturely instead of as a raging emo

I will not insult members who have made mistakes, but will provide constructive feedback instead.

I will not troll the forums for attention as I'm no longer 12 years old.



I fully accept the rules of sc2sea and hope to abide by them to the best of my ability. Do not hesitate to ban any trolling or pigheadedness on my part.

I hope I can contribute to the forums.

I'm confused to who this is? Are you his friend? You haven't stated anything.

Dw, you edited and changed your post completely.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Maybe you should take time to re-read his post instead of posting things like this..
	TABag:	Well played sir.
	Fourby:

[Sola]

I had posted and read your previous post which you had changed. So I hadn't seen your new post.
If your new to the community maybe tone down the negativity and show the respect to ppl like you said in your original post.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

Sorry didn'

[Sola]

No probs iVnStinger, all good.

[WillChen]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

Apparently he cannot contact his friend but he can get the replays...

It was in the morning when I asked him to send me the first few replays... it's been quite some time since then, I don't mean to sound rude but people have commitments in real life and he is currently busy, as I have been the past few hours

[wTlzq]

Originally Posted by WillChen

It was in the morning when I asked him to send me the first few replays... it's been quite some time since then, I don't mean to sound rude but people have commitments in real life and he is currently busy, as I have been the past few hours

i believe TAEdarus was referring to the 5 replays u uploaded.

But in any case, you still have to
- prove that your friend's replays isn't just from your NA account(since its possible for you to just log into a NA account and play some games)

If possible u could get him to play a game against you on the SEA server and post the replay here for everyone to analysis the hotkeys and playstyle, i believ that would justify your statements( shouldn't be difficult since u are able to play on the SEA server at his house)

[Sc2Clare]

agreed with u ther izq

[WillChen]

I have obtained a replay of myself (WillChen) playing against the friend who hacked on my account (he is using iVnFictioN because he does not want his account to be known)
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=705
hope this clears everything up

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by WillChen

I have obtained a replay of myself (WillChen) playing against the friend who hacked on my account (he is using iVnFictioN because he does not want his account to be known)
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=705
hope this clears everything up

The whole point of him playing you was for him to do it on his account so we could be sure that it is him playing you. If he is using FictioN's account then what is to stop FictioN actually being the one playing? Post a replay of you playing him, with him on his account. That's all we want, the more you dodge around it the more we become convinced that you are the hacker and not this "friend".

[WillChen]

I am FictioN, iVn members can all confirm this. The reason I play on a separate account now is because i wanted to have an account with the clantag in it and I did not have any name changes on my original WillChen

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

This is true.

[FaDeBadger]

My point still stands, even moreso if it's your account. It could be absolutely anyone playing on it.

[WillChen]

He does not want his account to be known as a hacker, hence played the game with me so I could get the replay on the condition that he use FictioN so that noone could see his account. I do not understand why it being my account makes it even more suspicious could you please clarify?

[FaDeBadger]

Forget it, you're just digging yourself a hole in my eyes. I don't believe a word you say. Luckily for you it's not my decision. GL.

[iVnStinger]

Badger that is uncalled for. The reason they wanted him and his friend in the same game is so that they cant analyze both play styles. If you aren't going to provide any evidence or say anything helpful, please stay out of it. Now I shall wait for Apth or Izq to review the replay.

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	Missed my point completely
	Sola:	Badger is trying to help out your situation, not hinder it.
	RicocheT:	Dug yourself in a bit of a hole there...

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

Badger that is uncalled for. The reason they wanted him and his friend in the same game is so that they cant analyze both play styles. If you aren't going to provide any evidence or say anything helpful, please stay out of it. Now I shall wait for Apth or Izq to review the replay.

You missed my point. My point is, if he is willing to lend his account out then it could be absolutely anybody playing on it. He could grab some random person from the ladder for all we know, doesn't matter who as long as their playstyle/hotkeys etc are different from his. If he wants to clear his name, play on his own account. Simple.

[iVnStinger]

He owns both accounts. His friend only has access to iVnFictioN. So you saying, you want the person who is probably the hacker to have access to both accounts?

[FaDeBadger]

WillChen owns both accounts I know. I'm saying his friend needs to play on his own account. Not iVnFictioN. We already know that WillChen will share it out with friends. He could just as easily share it with anyone.

Quick Comments

RicocheT:

This. Logic!!!

[Sc2Clare]

sorry stinger, but i guess i have to go with badger with this one
i cant be biased

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

Sad but true. I've been there.

[iVnStinger]

Oh! Sorry you got me completely confused. I thought you meant FictioN needed to play FicitoN. Ok than this makes sense. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Forget it, you're just digging yourself a hole in my eyes. I don't believe a word you say. Luckily for you it's not my decision. GL.

And this is what I think is uncalled for. You didn't need to say it.

[Bash]

I dont get it...
he lets a mate play on his account, then the mate hacks.
Sure, the mate is stupid. "I should've known better than to leave my account on (he has previously hacked in CS)"
Aaaand then LETS the friend back on his account to play against him, to prove innocence?
You know the guy hacks, i woudlnt let him near my account at all, nor would i help him conceal his own player ID By lending him an account, especially not MY account, to prove that I dont hack.

idk, i havent seen the replay. but that it doesnt make any sense to me.

[iVnStinger]

Ok I'm sorry for misunderstanding you badger as I have a tendency not to read and understand completely but just post blindly haha, but I do feel that is uncalled for.

Now we put that behind us and I would like to propose this:

We know for sure someone was hacking. If it really was his friend, let him come forward with his account and a post on this website so action can be taken.

If he refuses to, then WillChen will have to take responsibility and will be punished by the admins as they see fit.

Does that sound fair?

Quick Comments

Bash:

Sounds fair to meeeeeeeee,

[Nemo]

Whatever WillChen, your account has been proven to be used with map hack and you admit it. If we don't know who your friend is, basically you're going to face the whole consequences of Map Hacking yourself.

Your friend Map Hacked with your account, get caught and don't come here and admit ? And he's still your friend ? I can understand you don't want to denounce him anyway (personally I might do depending of the guy in question), but if you don't, just take all the blame and the consequences it comes with it.To have things other way we must identify that guy by other means and 100% prove it's him and not you. And that's quite impossible to do. So don't ask people to put more time into this, they don't have to. They only do it if they want to and if they beleive you might still say the truth. Personally, at that point I don't, sorry.

Edit: So, agreeing with the above.

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	That's what I've been trying to get through to him
	Bash:

[wTlzq]

SC2 Gears Hotkeys tracker: Displays the hotkeys usage of players over time. By hotkeys in this case we mean unit grouping: assigning a group of units (or buildings) to a number, or to press that number to select the group.

(imagine it as a graph where the x axis is the time, the number on the graph represents the control group number pressed at Time X)

The images are taken from Sc2gears which tracks the control group numbering and usage.
1st image)Hacker's unit grouping stats From the hacking replay
2nd image) stats of unit grouping and usage in a ladder replay that iVnFiction submitted
3rd image )The hotkey and control group stats of Fiction and his Friend in the *evidence* replay. ( note his "friend" is playing under iVnFiction nick in this replay)

basically it shows that the hacker has the same control grouping habits of iVnFiction




Uploaded with ImageShack.us




im poor in english, so anyone that could interpret this kindly help TT

Edit: unless Fiction can come up with another extra-ordinary excuse, i guess hes fked

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for taking time to make this

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by WillChen

@lzq
when I can get in touch with him I will ask him to send me some replays of him playing, just to be sure though; he plays on the NA server instead of SEA so does that present any sort of a problem or is that fine?

That seems very convenient too... Considering you have access to both servers but can't show us replays of him playing in SEA server... You'll just play a few games on NA under a different name and upload those replays...

edit: just watched the replay through, It's quite interesting that someone who's hacking on a friends account goes to extraordinary efforts to conceal it up until the absolutely ridiculous Mo ship snipe in the 25th minute...

You're blatant. You're lying. You're a douche.

extra edit: You lost the game too.... appalling

Quick Comments

RicocheT:

I dont necessarily agree fully with the post, but rep for making me laugh at the last sentence xD

[Scope_IV]

Yeah i just had a look at the sc2 hotkeys as well and that raised my suspicions even more. He uses the similar control methods in all the games. The other guy is very different. Care to explain willchen?

[crAzerk]

@Izq maybe some interpretation of that would help. I personally dont' use sc2gears so I've no idea what I'm looking at.

Quick Comments

wTlzq:

done :) hopefully u understand my poor english

[TCPKiaSu]

I think it is very very very sad to see that some of these hackers are actually in clans! I am also very disappointed in craftkings especially since I was there when he first joined the clan and welcomed him so openly. shame guys... shame

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

How do you know they knew he was a hacker when he joined?

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by TCPDeathWing

I think it is very very very sad to see that some of these hackers are actually in clans! I am also very disappointed in craftkings especially since I was there when he first joined the clan and welcomed him so openly. shame guys... shame

You can never be sure who is a hacker.. there could be a hacker in your clan, or there could be one in mine. These are just the ones who are caught.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

Very very true

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

T
edit: just watched the replay through, It's quite interesting that someone who's hacking on a friends account goes to extraordinary efforts to conceal it up until the absolutely ridiculous Mo ship snipe in the 25th minute...

You're blatant. You're lying. You're a douche.

extra edit: You lost the game too.... appalling

Was this really necessary?

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

Was this really necessary?

The first two while not necessarily true are what people are going to think. The third, is his opinion. May not have been necessary to state, but it's his to do with as he sees fit.

[Fourby]

I have obtained a replay of myself (WillChen) playing against the friend who hacked on my account (he is using iVnFictioN because he does not want his account to be known)
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=705
hope this clears everything up

Wait, he doesnt want his account to be known??? does this mean this replay was made AFTER? the accusations? how the f*** would this be valid? hurp durp "Just dont play how you usually play so we can send this replay kk?"

Everything seems so shady and dodgey from this guy. like the whole 'not having enough time' to upload the rest of the replays. you can upload 3 but dont have time to upload 2 more 50kb files? rlly?

btw lzq (not izq ), doesnt the images from sc2 gears show that the account player 'willchen' is more similar? thats what it looks like to me :S

Quick Comments

wTlzq:

+1 for that L :D

[wTlzq]

Originally Posted by Fourby

btw lzq (not izq ), doesnt the images from sc2 gears show that the account player 'willchen' is more similar? thats what it looks like to me :S

In that 3rd image, Fiction stated that he let his "friend" play on his account, thats why the names are switched. SC2GEARS matches the names in the replay to the graph automatically. So in the 3rd image, iVnFiction is using the account "WillChen"

edit: @Fourby, we requested that Fiction play against his fren as he claimed that his friend used his account to hack. But from the SC2Gears image its clear that his fren DO NOT use the same hotkey as the hacker.

[Sola]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

Was this really necessary?

You have to realise a lot of people will have this opinion and a fair few will voice it. Hackers are a complete time waste to people who log on to enjoy the game and try and compete to beat their opponent. When a honest player puts all his work into trying to figure out the opponent and play the game fairly only to realise that the other player might of been a hacker, it's a shitty feeling and it's nothing but a time waste for the player thay plays within the rules.

I think words like these are necessary, I would of used harsher if I had posted first.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by lzq

In that 3rd image, Fiction stated that he let his "friend" play on his account, thats why the names are switched. SC2GEARS matches the names in the replay to the graph automatically. So in the 3rd image, iVnFiction is using the account "WillChen"

edit: @Fourby, we requested that Fiction play against his fren as he claimed that his friend used his account to hack. But from the SC2Gears image its clear that his fren DO NOT use the same hotkey as the hacker.

To add to this, the last image shows that WillChen has the same hotkey usage as the hacker. His friend, who was playing on iVnFictioN clearly does not. Congrats on outing yourself as the hacker? I guess?

[iVnStinger]

@Frosty
No, no they were not necessary. Someone hacked, they made a mistake. Does not give you the right to call them douchebags especially since you were not the one who got hacked. I say we all just relax and go with what I propsed. There is no need for rage. Heck, even the person who got hacked in the game himself was very clam and nice about it.

[Sc2Clare]

i am so diappointed in willchen i am so ashamed that he or his friend has done this sort of thing. hacking is always a no-no. will have to wait for the verdict and our manager, Domo to see what happens. if he is really confirmed to be hacking, i sincerely apologize to you guys on his behalf TT

[Sola]

Even though I haven't called him anything, I don't need to be personally hacked by a person in order to express my opinion on what I think of him.

His actions gave anyone who plays fairly the right to do so.

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by Frosty85

Even though I haven't called him anything, I don't need to be personally hacked by a person in order to express my opinion on what I think of him.

His actions gave anyone who plays fairly the right to do so.

No no I didn't mean you said anything, I'm just saying it wouldn't be fair for anyone to publicly say bad things about another person for something they have done to another person.

[Sola]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

No no I didn't mean you said anything, I'm just saying it wouldn't be fair for anyone to publicly say bad things about another person for something they have done to another person.

I know you didn't mean I said anything.
We just disagree on the second point, that's all.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Frosty
No, no they were not necessary. Someone hacked, they made a mistake. Does not give you the right to call them douchebags especially since you were not the one who got hacked. I say we all just relax and go with what I propsed. There is no need for rage. Heck, even the person who got hacked in the game himself was very clam and nice about it.

You're a douchebag too for having this stupid opinion. Your clanmate hacked. Brought your entire clan into disrepute and you're sitting here arguing as to whether I should have called him a douchebag or not...

Get your priorities right. He lied to you too.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

No sir, you have no real way of proving that. That is why we are discussing it right now. It could've been his friend. And one member on my team could've possibly hacked, does not mean my whole team is bad.

[Nemo]

Well Rockstar, stop insulting people please, especially the guys that did not map hack. It doesn't help to anything and it lessen the dignity of this serious subject.

I watched the 3 replays. The 2 ZvZ are not interesting. But I quite recognize the same pastern of nearly no scouting at all while you drone in the ZvP.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Your clanmate hacked. Brought your entire clan into disrepute

I fail to see how that makes any sense at all?

iVn is a new team, with new players... regardless of that fact how were iVn meant to know he/whoever hacked in the first place?

Any player could potentially 'hack'... I don't see how incidents like this should effect the reputation of teams, especially new ones.

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by ggMufasa

I fail to see how that makes any sense at all?

iVn is a new team, with new players... regardless of that fact how were iVn meant to know he/whoever hacked in the first place?

Any player could potentially 'hack'... I don't see how incidents like this should effect the reputation of teams, especially new ones.

I agree completely. One person hacking does not mean the whole team is bad. I just feel like everyone is more interested in pointing fingers and calling people names rather than discussing the situation. Imagine how it feels for me to know that one of my players hacked, or his friends did and now people think that my whole team is crap just because of one members mistake. It is unfair. When EvetS hacked, he admitted it and it was on him, not FaDe. The same should apply for us.

All I ask is that we don't just try to look of ways to prove him guilty, but help try to prove him innocent as well if possible. If I were in his position, that is all I would want.

[AxSGRiM]

I'm masters and I only hotkey my nexi.

Quick Comments

FlashVeno:

so do i !

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

I'm masters and I only hotkey my nexi.

Just like Adam! Except he hotkeys his units also. *sigh*,,, Protoss....

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Haha, I was about to make the same joke
	asdfSchnitzel:	I use all my hotkeys, from 1-0, and i actually use them! And im plat! 0.0

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by ggMufasa

I fail to see how that makes any sense at all?

iVn is a new team, with new players... regardless of that fact how were iVn meant to know he/whoever hacked in the first place?

Any player could potentially 'hack'... I don't see how incidents like this should effect the reputation of teams, especially new ones.

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

I agree completely. One person hacking does not mean the whole team is bad. I just feel like everyone is more interested in pointing fingers and calling people names rather than discussing the situation. Imagine how it feels for me to know that one of my players hacked, or his friends did and now people think that my whole team is crap just because of one members mistake. It is unfair. When EvetS hacked, he admitted it and it was on him, not FaDe. The same should apply for us.

All I ask is that we don't just try to look of ways to prove him guilty, but help try to prove him innocent as well if possible. If I were in his position, that is all I would want.

Nothing that you've said has changed the fact that a member of your clan has hacked. Whether you believe it or not, his story is full of holes. Anyone with any common sense at all can see it's a horrid last ditch effort to clear his name. Gutless. herp derp it was a friend, I went out and he played on my account and went out of his way to not make it blatantly obvious he was hacking...

You people should be more angry than anyone else... He wore your clan tag while he did it...

The simple fact of the matter is that his actions brought a bad name to your entire clan. Whether you think thats fair or not, it's still the truth. If I play someone from iVn I'll be damned sure to watch the replay thoroughly...

edit: The people who run this sight have to maintain a certain amount of integrity when dealing with this sort of thing... In order to maintain that integrity they have to be as impartial as they can, only taking action on things which are proven beyond doubt. I personally think this has been proven beyond doubt but it's not my job to maintain a community and hand out punishments etc.

Every other person is completely entitled to their opinion and how they act on the matter is 100% up to them. I am a member of Clan FaDe and when Evets hacked I was livid. The clan and the SC2Sea community handed out the punishments and that was that... I personally will still not treat Evets any differently from any other hacker. The most that I will do is not openly berate him in a community channel, because of the respect I have for the other people in the clan. What he did HAS cheapened the FaDe clan name. What your member has done HAS cheapened the iVn name.

Quick Comments

	Sola:	It only brings a bad name to the clan if outside ppl are dumb enough to base the actions of 1 person to the whole clan.
	mGGDaedalus:	iVN are being very open to the discovery they may have a hacker among them. Try to be reasonable.
	EveMassacrisM:	This is how hackers should always be treated. Hacking is pathetic and i wont count any of those my friends/

[iVnStinger]

And that sir is what makes you a horrible friend. Your friend made a mistake and instead of helping him, you probably called him names. I don't care if FictioN hacked or not, he is my member and my responsibility, no where so far have I said "LOL IT WASN'T HIM PLEASE FCK OFF". No I've been looking into it and agreeing with whoever I can. He is a teammate and a friend to me, I don't care what he did, I will help him if he needs it. Yes if he did indeed hack, he is going to be punished.

Yes I am angry that this happend, and I do know it now means that iVn is going to have a bad name for a while, but it doesn't mean I need to take insults like that from people like you. You haven't been hacked, nor has anyone said anything bad to you. So please back off.

Quick Comments

	Rockstar:	I have no intention of ever helping a known hacker.
	TCPKiaSu:
	x5.Revenant:	Counter-rep for fighting for your friends.

[Sola]

oO I think this is starting to derail. Maybe just wait for moderators/admin before adding anything else.

Just an idea

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by Frosty85

oO I think this is starting to derail. Maybe just wait for moderators/admin before adding anything else.

Just an idea

I agree with you, I'm sorry but it just makes me get upset that people are thinking of us that way

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

And that sir is what makes you a horrible friend. Your friend made a mistake and instead of helping him, you probably called him names. I don't care if FictioN hacked or not, he is my member and my responsibility, no where so far have I said "LOL IT WASN'T HIM PLEASE FCK OFF". No I've been looking into it and agreeing with whoever I can. He is a teammate and a friend to me, I don't care what he did, I will help him if he needs it. Yes if he did indeed hack, he is going to be punished.

Yes I am angry that this happend, and I do know it now means that iVn is going to have a bad name for a while, but it doesn't mean I need to take insults like that from people like you. You haven't been hacked, nor has anyone said anything bad to you. So please back off.

Actually no it makes HIM a bad friend. H I M ! ! ! What don't you understand about this? There's only one person breaking the rules here...

Your FRIEND decided to wear YOUR CLANS TAG and then hack WHILE REPRESENTING YOU AND YOUR CLAN. He then made some lame ass excuse and LIED TO YOUR FACE. To this point he STILL HASN'T ADMITTED HE HACKED.

Some friend you have there.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Ok guys look

I have been taking a back seat in this issue to see how the EVIDENCE (note i said EVIDENCE or opinion or speculation) unfolds. It is clear that WillChen/FictioN is guilty in some respect and I am truly sorry for that.

I will be taking this matter into my own hands now after I have observed the shit fight this has turned into, I have seen no real debate, just senseless arguing and name calling on both sides.

I am ashamed of my member who has committed this act, we had absolutely no knowledge of any form of hacking on his part prior to this incident. This has taught me a lesson to observe more carefully the intricacies of our players and put in place higher standards of entry into our team.

Please do not take the words of my fellow team members out of context. They were reacting in an emotional sense to a teammate of whom they gave the premise 'Innocent until proven guilty'. I see some of you have taken them as defending their teammate; although this seems the case they were simply giving their FRIEND the benefit of the doubt until everything was sorted out in terms of evidence (sc2 gears, basic logical fallacies in the story etc.).

I understand how some of you will use this singular event and create some ridiculous generalization concerning the entirety of Team Invision, let me tell you that is the definition of flawed logic and I see no point in trying to argue with it. FictioN's actions do NOT AT ALL reflect those of Team Invision and I vehemently reject any supposition that it could be suggested as such.

I apologize to the victims of this scandal(I hope this never has to happen again to anybody) and also to the admins for having to deal with 4-5 pages of utter crap. Thankyou for your time, I will sort this out on my end, admins do your thing.

And ONE MORE APOLOGY to those whos time I have wasted in this verbose post, and to those who have taken offense to anything my members have said. I am dealing with this matter as we speak (or type or whatever).

P.S. I am the iVn manager in case you didn't know.

Quick Comments

	Sola:	A hacker has no change in me in respecting your clan. gogo iVn!
	TAriiChard:	much respect
	nirvAnA:
	nGenLight:	Your clan sucks cuz you got a hacker. I am clearly joking relax.
	TCPKiaSu:	just by reading this I can tell clan iVn is going to go a long way

[Apth]

This thread is to discuss evidence for and against accusations of hacking, not to discuss penalties and responsibilities. Please remember that.

We have established that hacking occurred in this replay submitted by Scope. WillChen has admitted to this.

Either WillChen, or WillChen's friend who was playing on his account, was hacking.

My Recommendation
If WillChen's friend comes forward, his account will be blacklisted.
If WillChen's friend does not come forward, WillChen's account (Fiction) will be blacklisted.

Because WillChen has admitted that hacking occurred in the original replay, we do not need any more replay submissions or analysis. Nor do we need to discuss how this effects WillChen's clan.

Thanks guys.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Hey! That was my idea :)
	Nemo:	Simple, and efficient : Apth trademark
	nirvAnA:

[TCPKiaSu]

@joshboy and edge: what I mean is that the hackers still had the nerve join a clan while they themselves knew that they were cheaters and dishonest. By joining that clan they and lying to a lot of people and could also damage the clans reputation. I think that these hackers are lucky just to have the clan members have their backs and even apolagize on their behalfs (of course I would do that too for a fellow friend and clan member)

Quick Comments

Apth:

I'd really like to see this line of discussion end

[nirvAnA]

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

[stalking you]

I think Willchen Hacked, Cant wait for DoMo's Post here, really interested to see how this turns out

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Quick Comments

	sRAnti:	It seems the only person who thinks worse of iVn is you.
	Rage:	This is ridiculous. Because one person in a clan hacks, that makes the others more likely to?
	x5.Revenant:	No.

[Sola]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Did you even read Apth's post before posting this.

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

You should judge a clan on how they deal with the situation, not how one of their members acts. If its only a matter of an individual, no need to pull other people into it.

[Meatex]

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

Agreed. Rockstar, you were very vocal when the EvetS drama happened and now. I don't mind that, you're just voicing your opinion, but yeah, pull back. I do like how you stick to your guns no matter what (consistency at its finest old chap) but like Meat said, let them decide what they'll do.

Plus, we've all watched the replay and seen how friggin obvious it is.

[iVnStinger]

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

[stalking you]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

Good to hear you and Domo talked bout it

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

No worries bro, there's nothing personal about any of this. It's unfortunate that these things have taken place and that you and your clan have been dragged into it. As you've probably noticed I despise hackers and think they should be hung by their balls from a tall building. Let me just be clear that I'm not angry at you or iVn, and I do think its very unfortunate that the actions of one person have created this issue. I know you were just trying to defend your mate. I was just trying to point out that perhaps he isn't as good a mate as you think he is.

[Scope_IV]

Anybody have any more information or anything regarding this? I would like to here from iVn on their decisions and such. It has been quiet a while since anything has happened.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Scope_IV

Anybody have any more information or anything regarding this? I would like to here from iVn on their decisions and such. It has been quiet a while since anything has happened.

Well I would say judging by WIllChen's silence that he will be the one held responsible for the hacking, but I would also like to hear what iVn has to say.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Sorry for the delay, myself and Stinger have been trying to get into contact with WillChen/FictioN and he is not responding at all.

I will not assume that this is him throwing a temper tantrum or an example of 'guilt by denial/silence'.

Taking that into account, it does not change the penalty for his actions anyway. He was found guilty by the sc2sea admins/community for hacking based on hard evidence. So admins you can guys do what you do best, as for the iVn side of things (as people seem to want to know rofl) we have decided to kick iVnWillChen/FictioN from the team roster completely and will not consider a reapplication from him in the future due to his childish behaviour (recently) and the uproar his actions have provoked.

I want to thank the people who discovered what WillChen was doing, exposed it and followed up on confirming their allegations sensibly. You have made the SEA scene a better place by removing another person whom clearly holds what we stand for in contempt.

Thanks, from myself and Team Invision!

^.^

Quick Comments

	Apth:
	Nemo:	Good decision
	syfChase:
	MikeTyson:

[Scope_IV]

Thanks for your response, I will be looking forward to playing against your members in the future. Im glad this got all sorted out Thanks to everybody who has put their time and effort into this matter.

[Rage]

I agree with Rockstar that hackers deserve no sympathy. Once hacking has been confirmed, flame away, as far as I'm concerned.

However, don't judge a clan by it.

[Zealo]

semi-suspicious game i had on ladder...

high diamond mmr

player: whiteluxury

+ Show +

http://drop.sc/101287

looks at my base through fog twice, (2nd time directly over pool) before this comment (note he hasn't even scouted my race yet)



also just before the 5 min mark after holding off my initial lings he totally walls off, which may indicate he saw the reinforcing lings on the minimap (or possibly just assumed they were coming instead of me droning behind initial 6 lings) i've never seen someone totally wall off like that before seeing the next round of lings either at their ramp or with scouting probe.

obviously 6 mins of play not enough to be conclusive on its own (maybe he was making a joke about me being random? at the 2 minute mark? :S)

[Nemo]

I've seen the replay. There is no way he could have been certain that you were making a early pool. It could have been a "random guess" but that's very suspicious to say the least.

5:00 : He played very calmly until that point 4 gating in response. Then a bunch of lings come out of your base and he suddenly make a pylon to block his base. You could say that's because he wants to attack with his units and not letting any runby. The stalker is blocked inside at the beginning then he gets it out before remaking the Pylon. His stalker was in great danger in that position. I wouldn't have made that move if I saw those Zerglings coming.



5:24 : And indeed, he looses both his units and the game.




The initial comment is very suspicious but I can't see anything really suspicious after that. Maybe someone else can see other things.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

i wouldn't discount the dumb option

[iMSystem]

Not enough evidence to justify calling him a hacker.

Sorry

[Apth]

Originally Posted by System

Not enough evidence to justify calling him a hacker.

Sorry

I can't see anything to point towards hacking. None of his responses are out of the ordinary, and his vision regularly switched to his scouting probe.

[FaDeBadger]

The only real evidence I saw of hacking was his comment. But that's definitely not enough to confirm anything.

[Rockstar]

Yeah, he totally called your early pool and then the 2nd comment was in response to the extra lings coming up... Just judging specifically from his gameplay, he's not diamond material... No diamond would have made the simple mistakes he made which inevitably cost him the game... 1 sentry was all he needed to stop that entire rush, and he didn't even have the forethought to get one.

Can't conclusively call him a hack, however that replays a step in the right direction. Hopefully someone else runs into him and uploads another replay.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

obviously 1 replay not enough, i thought his play sub diamond level also. it's there as evidence if there are more replays later

[PiG]

ppl tilt all the time and talk shit about random and play worse as result. I've called out loads of random players saying "proxygates?" or "mmmmmm 6 pool yum" and it's right like 15% of the time lol..

[Zealo]

yeah it happens, just not usually at the 2 minute mark as they look at my base through the fog.

never meant to suggest that rep is (conclusive or even strong) evidence, it's a 6 minute game. i just found it pretty sus at the tiome. it's there if there's ever any more suspicions posted about that player (or people want to go back and look at reps vs him i guess)

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Zealo

yeah it happens, just not usually at the 2 minute mark as they look at my base through the fog.

never meant to suggest that rep is (conclusive or even strong) evidence, it's a 6 minute game. i just found it pretty sus at the tiome. it's there if there's ever any more suspicions posted about that player (or people want to go back and look at reps vs him i guess)

Whatever happens you were right to post it. His comment and the blocking of his base at the exact moment your zerglings came out of your base were suspicious enough to take his case under a certain scrutiny.

[syfChase]

Whilst playing Random on NA I spawned as Protoss against a Terran opponent

My opponent said "unlucky, toss like taking candy from a baby" within the opening seconds of the game o.o

Weird thing was He wasn't hacking ~.^
Lucky Guess, maybe? :Þ

[Nemo]

Probably. But at least you can't argue that what he said was true.

[Champi]

Just came across a maphacker from the 'ons' clan on ladder, a protoss player called onsjcapone

replay can be downloaded here: http://drop.sc/104121

Accusations:

1. He sends his first scout probe to my base first, and if u watch the probes rally, he tries to shift click it around the edges of my main to hide it from vision, possibly to try and hide proxies in my base right at the start.

2. at 3.40 he looks into my base to check when my cyber core finnishes and where i put my chrono's

3. at 4.50 i send my stalker to check for a probe to deny any sort of 4gate, said probe magically knows where my stalker is checking without sight, and carefully avoids my stalker so that he can continue his 4gate without being delayed

4. he looks into my base fog of war waaayyy too many times for what should be no reason in a legit game

5. there are other random little nuances that appear randomly throughout the game that i can't confirm are because of maphacking, but are deffinitely suspicious to me, such as sending out 3 probes (not due to bad rally) onto the map to try and possibly set up proxies, and coincidentally knowing when my timing is going to hit him and positioning his army in the correct spot to optimally defend and engage.


I also have a small prejudice against this ons clan, due to the shady and suspicious behaviour they displayed against my SEACL captain TALoSt in regards to lineups on week 2, with the dippa incident, obviously this is unrelated to this game.

(P.S. this is not an accusation due to a rage loss... I KICKED HIS ASS )

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for exposing a Map Hacker

[Churlz]

The amount of times he was looking in your base champi is pretty crazy. And that probe scout at the start makes a good case. Only thing is why did he build and observer... and used it to scout around the edge of his base that was weird for a maphacker. My opinion is that onsjcapone was hacking unless he can defend himself some way

[Champi]

my guess is that he built an observer for the sole purpose of sniping mine so that i couldnt have vision of his high ground

[Meatex]

In my opinion this is obvious hacking
He sent a second probe before knowing where his opponent was to try to sneak in and constantly looking at the guys base
the observer scouting was to find opponents observer - no idea about map hacks but i guess they don't uncloak units

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

I also have a small prejudice against this ons clan, due to the shady and suspicious behaviour they displayed against my SEACL captain TALoSt in regards to lineups on week 2, with the dippa incident, obviously this is unrelated to this game, however i feel it may be necessary to keep a closer eye on this clan.

I don't feel its fair to say this. Its fine to accuse individual members of the clan as long as you have some proof.. but to criticize the actual clan because of a couple of 'incidents', you are going to need some actual proof that their clan itself is behind this.

[syfMiley]

He just keeps looking blindly at your base :/

[Fourby]

Wow just keeps looking at your base over and over, after his attack failed and he was in his base lolol

[Champi]

@Petraeus

yes i realised this as soon as i re-read my post, i have edited it out an apologise to the ons clan for my rash, quick to judge attitude. i wasnt thinking 100 percent clearly as i was mostly focused on outing the maphacker while i was posting.

[crAzerk]

Watching the replay now.

TAChampi vs onsjcapone

1:08 - Glances into fog at your base
2:04 - Glances into fog at your base
2:30 - begins 'perimeter rally' before even confirming it's your spawn location
3:40 - Glances into fog at your base
4:49- 5:00 - micros Probe to avoid your incoming Stalker which he has no vision of
5:40 - Glances into fog at your base
6:05 - Looks into fog at your incoming Zealot to attack it with STalkers
6:59 - Looks into fog at your base
7:14 - Looks into fog at your base
7:32 - Looks nito fog at your base
7:54 - Looks into fog at your base
8: 10 + many more times looking into fog at your base.

I stopped watching the replay because I thought I had enough information, and from this above data it is clear that he can't be hacking, seems perfectly legit!

+ Show +

Who are we kidding? It's extremely blatant maphack and I've added him to the confirmed hacker list in the OP

Quick Comments

Champi:

thanks mate :)

[wTlzq]

i told him about this thread on bnet, he says he would upload more replays.

[crAzerk]

@Izq who are you referring to? Jcapone? From the replay submitted it is conclusive that maphack was used in that game against Champi, and so his only line of defence would be something like what WillChen/Fiction tried.

I've also updated the OP with the suspected hackers from last time (e.g. Fiction, Ghost) being moved to confirmed hackers, if they want to clear their name they should post more replays as requested from before.

[wTlzq]

@craZerk i am referring to jcapone, just feel that he should be given at least a chance to explain his actions, no matter how conclusive the evidence is

edit: i swear that is a capital i you are using for my nick!!! its an LLLLLLL

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	ezq <3
	crAzerk:	sorry Izq :D

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by lzq

@craZerk i am referring to jcapone, just feel that he should be given at least a chance to explain his actions, no matter how conclusive the evidence is

edit: i swear that is a capital i you are using for my nick!!! its an LLLLLLL

Doesn't matter if he explains it. He still hacked, so won't be moved from the confirmed hacker list. At least that's how it should work.

[crAzerk]

@Lzq
As I've said, the only possible explanation that would 'clear' his name is if he used the Willchen defence. I don't want to spell it out here to give him an easy time, but if you wanted to know what it was just look back through this thread.

(I tried to troll you by typing an I in my rep comment on you but it doesn't appear clearly so I thought I'd just state it explicitly)

@Badger I think you typoed?
"He still hacked, so won't be moved from the confirmed hacker list. "
You mean 'will be moved' ?

Quick Comments

wTlzq:

:DDD

[FaDeBadger]

@crAzerk, I said he won't be moved from the hacker list. Meaning he is already there and will be staying there even if he explains why he hacked etc.

Quick Comments

crAzerk:

ah, gotcha

[Rockstar]

Blatant hacking. Didn't even think about trying to hide it either... Still had the audacity to GG at the end too... Has the Ons clan management been informed of the situation?

edit: He saw the council when he map hacked and knew that Champi would have an obs (which he obviously couldn't see with the maphack) for blink into his base, thats why he got his own obs out. To snipe the obs of Champi..

[Champi]

i pmed onscalcifer on b.net letting him know that onsjcampone has been added to the confirmed hackers list, and requested he let the leader of ons know, whoever that may be.

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by lzq

@craZerk i am referring to jcapone, just feel that he should be given at least a chance to explain his actions, no matter how conclusive the evidence is

edit: i swear that is a capital i you are using for my nick!!! its an LLLLLLL

Agreed. He should at least be given a chance to explain. Who knows, maybe his/her friends got high and used his account to maphack (see what I did there?), or maybe his account got hacked by some cheater.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

He didn't accuse the clan of hacking, he said he had a prejudice, *facepalm*

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by neozxa

Sorry, but I feel that you should refrain from accuse the entire ons clan of hacking. One of my (best) friends in the SEA server is on that clan and I feel bad for him if people started thinking that he's a hacker since he's in the ons clan just because of your statement. You should at least bring up some evidence to back your assumption.



Agreed. He should at least be given a chance to explain. Who knows, maybe his/her friends got high and used his account to maphack (see what I did there?), or maybe his account got hacked by some cheater.

he apologised...

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

Edgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :D

[Champi]

@neozxa

what? i did no such thing! all i said was that i have 2 reasons to be prejudice against them, dont put words in my mouth by saying im calling them hackers.

i dont need to bring any evidence to back up an assumption i havnt made.

im entitled to be prejudice against a group of people who tried to rig a seacl line up, if u read what i said, u will find that i made sure to mention that my last statement was completely unrelated to the maphacker and the game.

please dont create drama where there is none. im sure ur friend is perfectly legit, and noone will assume a whole clan is hacking just because i found one guy who hacks within them, FaDe and SPR both had a hacker in their ranks and theyre two of the best clans in SEA.

[Nemo]

I won't do an analysis of this replay since it's clear for everyone that's a blatant Map Hack. He can then be put already, as crAzerk did, in the hacker list legitimally.

Now he has still the chance to come here and explain if he wants. He will be listned to but he should not try to lie in a "last chance" try, but says the truth or it will end even worse for him.

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

@neozxa

what? i did no such thing! all i said was that i have 2 reasons to be prejudice against them, dont put words in my mouth by saying im calling them hackers.

i dont need to bring any evidence to back up an assumption i havnt made.

im entitled to be prejudice against a group of people who tried to rig a seacl line up, if u read what i said, u will find that i made sure to mention that my last statement was completely unrelated to the maphacker and the game.

please dont create drama where there is none. im sure ur friend is perfectly legit, and noone will assume a whole clan is hacking just because i found one guy who hacks within them, FaDe and SPR both had a hacker in their ranks and theyre two of the best clans in SEA.

I apologize. Thought having a prejudice and accusing is the same thing. I'll edit my post and remove that statement.

Quick Comments

Champi:

<3

[Exilemic]

Hi, this is ons leader. We're aware of onsjcapone's case and cleared things with him. He said that it's a matter of mannerism, but we don't think it is(no one looks at fogs just because they're bored or got nothing to do). By that, we'll kick him out of the clan.

Quick Comments

	Champi:
	Zealo:	♥ ons
	TAriiChard:
	Nemo:	Fair
	nirvAnA:

[Fourby]

Yeh,, the only reason that i could think of is:

if he sent in a scout (probe etc) and wasnt looking, so he goes back to see if he got some money scouts on a tech structure. But he didnt.

he could only see like a gateway and nexus, and he does it over and over and over without trying to even reveal anything first.

And why would u be looking at anything but your own ramp when you have been completely contained and think they could come for counter push.



P.S i like blink stalkers

Quick Comments

Champi:

i like blink stalkers too. lets blink stalkers together sometime <3

[crAzerk]

The mannerism excuse doesn't work for the Stalker-dodging by his Probe which I described.

Kudos to clan ons for your prompt response and decision

[Ghost300]

I haven't played on SEA server for a while now. I see you have moved Ghost from suspected to confirmed. I have no desire to clear my account name from this list, simply because I don't care enough to go through more than I already did.

I wish this community the very best because the way it seems, there will be plenty more innocent players who will be accused of maphacking and then have their replays analyzed by people who don't know much about the game. I understand that player level on SEA server is way below the other ones, that's why I was able to get to top GM on this server so quickly, but if you want to analyze replays to decide whether one is maphacking or not, you need to have at least some basic understandings of the game... don't you think?

So yes I chronoboosted my 3 gates when I still had bases to saturate. Why? because I scouted makaprime 2rax opening and that was exactly what I needed to do. Instead of limiting yourself to think of it as a "suspicious play", I suggest you to simply watch and learn exactly how to optimize your 1gate double to defend a 2rax opening. Trust me, your PvT will improve by a lot. No, this is not an excuse to defend myself. Just keep my name on that list, at least I will get to laugh at it once every while :P

Obviously, I'm the only person who knows for sure whether I have maphacked or not. And based on that fact, the entire list doesn't seem very credible to me anymore, even the ones that say "Confirmed blatant maphacker". How so sure? All the analysis seems to be like "Why did you make that move there, it looks really suspicious!!" When it is simply that you don't understand why. Are you expecting me to teach you the entire game? Well no thanks, I'm definitely not like MC good, I won't be coaching anyone =)

When I said there will be more people getting false accusations, it also means there will be real maphackers who will get away with hacking, making fun of the whole purpose of this thread. There probably are a lot of them already, I've seen some suspicious plays by people with clan name with their handles!

Lastly, I blame blizzard for all this because they have failed to secure the game from hacking. I hope one day, anyone who decide to hack will get their account banned immediately so people know for sure if one's been hacking. That way Nemo can spend his time practicing and actually getting better at playing, instead of spending hours to analyze pointless replays to find any in-game actions he doesn't understand!! I appreciate all you guys' hard work, at least you're trying to make battle.net a better place.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	Been trying to tell people this for a while now
	ROOTPetraeus:	Nobody disses Nemo.
	crAzerk:	Goodbye. read reply below
	nirvAnA:	People don't need to read the post the topic title u wrote sums it up
	[TA]LoSt:	lol
	PiG:	dumbest post ever
	TAScarecrow:	so full of shit

[NvRossi]

^ best protoss in SEA

Quick Comments

TABjornbrandr:

/cuddle

[Nemo]

This time you come here and insult people and SEA in general. Where is the polite and controlled answer of last time ?

This attitude is sad. If you were not guilty you would defend yourself, you would never accept such an injustice to you and you would make all needed to prove us we were wrong. In fact you prefer to insult us to try to keep your face because you don't want anymore scrutiny on your games.

Go away, SEA don't want you anymore.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	Agreed - gtfo map hacker.
	Ghost300:	I truly wish you the best in finding maphackers Nemo.
	nirvAnA:	exactly so much easier to defend yourself by posting the ladder replays then typing all that
	asdfSchnitzel:

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Ghost300

I haven't played on SEA server for a while now. I see you have moved Ghost from suspected to confirmed. I have no desire to clear my account name from this list, simply because I don't care enough to go through more than I already did.

I wish this community the very best because the way it seems, there will be plenty more innocent players who will be accused of maphacking and then have their replays analyzed by people who don't know much about the game. I understand that player level on SEA server is way below the other ones, that's why I was able to get to top GM on this server so quickly, but if you want to analyze replays to decide whether one is maphacking or not, you need to have at least some basic understandings of the game... don't you think?

So yes I chronoboosted my 3 gates when I still had bases to saturate. Why? because I scouted makaprime 2rax opening and that was exactly what I needed to do. Instead of limiting yourself to think of it as a "suspicious play", I suggest you to simply watch and learn exactly how to optimize your 1gate double to defend a 2rax opening. Trust me, your PvT will improve by a lot. No, this is not an excuse to defend myself. Just keep my name on that list, at least I will get to laugh at it once every while :P

Obviously, I'm the only person who knows for sure whether I have maphacked or not. And based on that fact, the entire list doesn't seem very credible to me anymore, even the ones that say "Confirmed blatant maphacker". How so sure? All the analysis seems to be like "Why did you make that move there, it looks really suspicious!!" When it is simply that you don't understand why. Are you expecting me to teach you the entire game? Well no thanks, I'm definitely not like MC good, I won't be coaching anyone =)

When I said there will be more people getting false accusations, it also means there will be real maphackers who will get away with hacking, making fun of the whole purpose of this thread. There probably are a lot of them already, I've seen some suspicious plays by people with clan name with their handles!

Lastly, I blame blizzard for all this because they have failed to secure the game from hacking. I hope one day, anyone who decide to hack will get their account banned immediately so people know for sure if one's been hacking. That way Nemo can spend his time practicing and actually getting better at playing, instead of spending hours to analyze pointless replays to find any in-game actions he doesn't understand!! I appreciate all you guys' hard work, at least you're trying to make battle.net a better place.

What I dont understand about people like you who are so 'gifted' that everyone else can't see the level-above logic you're using to make your miraculously correct decisions is, why don't you just come to LAN tournaments and take all the prize money...?

Quick Comments

TABjornbrandr:

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Ghost300

I have no desire to clear my account name from this list

OK kewl, goodbye forever.

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

i pmed onscalcifer on b.net letting him know that onsjcampone has been added to the confirmed hackers list, and requested he let the leader of ons know, whoever that may be.

Ive spoken to calcifer before on hacking issues too. But i didnt have enough proof or replays so i just let it slide by. Imo sometimes its better to just warn/alert the clan leader to let them sort it out within themselves.

The replay u posted however, looks very convincing, well done again!

Quick Comments

calcifer19:

Did you ?? when ?

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Ghost300

the entire list doesn't seem very credible to me anymore, even the ones that say "Confirmed blatant maphacker". How so sure? All the analysis seems to be like "Why did you make that move there, it looks really suspicious!!

'How so sure'? If you have actually bothered to click on the analysis or watched the replay yourself, you will see that the 'blatant maphack' cases are pretty straightforward cases of glancing into Fog of War, and not a 'odd decisions' kind of case.

I would have been glad to remove your name from the list if you had bothered to justify some of your actions (which seemed not justifiable by many), but instead you choose to come back and slam the community instead.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[wTlzq]

Ghost300= xXGhostXx??

if thats so, he flamed me for opening 14pool15hatch against his nexus->gate->forge. ( which results in my 8 lings killing everything), while claiming that SEA players are cheesey assholes..made me laughed that game

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

[nirvAnA]

Haven't been here in awhile but wow..... crAzerk and Nemo in particular have done an amazing job with this thread. Great job guys! Looks like many obvious hackers have been outted.

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

What I dont understand about people like you who are so 'gifted' that everyone else can't see the level-above logic you're using to make your miraculously correct decisions is, why don't you just come to LAN tournaments and take all the prize money...?

To add to what Pinder has said, both Timber and I studied about 5 replays of him(Ghost), sent it to a few other top players before we made the decision to upload the replays. Now are you saying we are all too low level to understand your thought process or the game? So your whole argument fails and that personal attack on Nemo is just sad and unnecessary.

And if you cared so much about clearing your name (you obviously actually do hence your long post) you would have posted the ladder replays. But you can't do that because some will inevitably show you blatantly hacking and you know it.

[RicocheT]

No need to diss Nemo who uses his own time and effort to seek out suspicious activity ala maphack.
He may not be the most knowledgeable person but on sc2sea we have a huge group of high players that can also give their own opinions if others are unsure.

[xGKingdelete]

Well ghost, it's a shame things had to end this way. Maphacks or not, you have to be decent to get ranked so high anyway. If it were me, I would be fighting for my credibility and reputation above all else. But of course, it isn't me.

It's good to see you aren't openly angry at the community about this, but please, don't insult Nemo. He's just analysing, and he's done a great job of it.

Quick Comments

Eldrid:

handsomest nerdballer ev0r

[Nemo]

Thanks for your support guys.

I didn't want to justify myself to Ghost on his personal attacks as it's not to the defendant to judge his prosecutors. I did my analysis and let others judge the case, helped or not by my analysis. It's just an help to let people make their opinions.

So when he says that it's people that has not enough understanding of the game that judge him, he in fact indicate (and insulting) guys like Vendetta, Nirvana, delete12, Timber, wolf (all and all except Timber) who thought he indeed was probably hacking.

Those guys all said that my work helped at least a bit make an opinion about it, so it was not a waste of time. I'm not a good player and I lack a lot of knowledge of this game, but I have still my qualities that can contribute to see or highlight certain things. The fact that people here were able to accept that you still can talk and be listened to without being the best player out there is one of the reason I made sc2sea my sc2 "home".

When you start attacking people and no more their ideas, it's generally that you know your ideas are wrong.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	<3 your
	Eldrid:	have my children

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by Ghost300

I haven't played on SEA server for a while now. I see you have moved Ghost from suspected to confirmed. I have no desire to clear my account name from this list, simply because I don't care enough to go through more than I already did.

I wish this community the very best because the way it seems, there will be plenty more innocent players who will be accused of maphacking and then have their replays analyzed by people who don't know much about the game. I understand that player level on SEA server is way below the other ones, that's why I was able to get to top GM on this server so quickly, but if you want to analyze replays to decide whether one is maphacking or not, you need to have at least some basic understandings of the game... don't you think?

So yes I chronoboosted my 3 gates when I still had bases to saturate. Why? because I scouted makaprime 2rax opening and that was exactly what I needed to do. Instead of limiting yourself to think of it as a "suspicious play", I suggest you to simply watch and learn exactly how to optimize your 1gate double to defend a 2rax opening. Trust me, your PvT will improve by a lot. No, this is not an excuse to defend myself. Just keep my name on that list, at least I will get to laugh at it once every while :P

Obviously, I'm the only person who knows for sure whether I have maphacked or not. And based on that fact, the entire list doesn't seem very credible to me anymore, even the ones that say "Confirmed blatant maphacker". How so sure? All the analysis seems to be like "Why did you make that move there, it looks really suspicious!!" When it is simply that you don't understand why. Are you expecting me to teach you the entire game? Well no thanks, I'm definitely not like MC good, I won't be coaching anyone =)

When I said there will be more people getting false accusations, it also means there will be real maphackers who will get away with hacking, making fun of the whole purpose of this thread. There probably are a lot of them already, I've seen some suspicious plays by people with clan name with their handles!

Lastly, I blame blizzard for all this because they have failed to secure the game from hacking. I hope one day, anyone who decide to hack will get their account banned immediately so people know for sure if one's been hacking. That way Nemo can spend his time practicing and actually getting better at playing, instead of spending hours to analyze pointless replays to find any in-game actions he doesn't understand!! I appreciate all you guys' hard work, at least you're trying to make battle.net a better place.

You know, after critiquing the entire SC2SEA community like that, saying that our "player level on SEA server is way below the other ones" and dissing Nemo who was just trying to help the SC2SEA community hacker free, you COULD at least post a replay pack of the games you played. You know, just to clear your name. Since the reason why your name was put on the Confirmed Hacker list was because you are: "Highly suspected and does not wish to submit more replays to clear his name, moving to Confirmed Hacker unless he comes back to clear his name" It won't kill, would it?

[Rockstar]

Anything he does at this point won't clear his name. He left it too long. The only way he could have cleared it is if he uploaded the games prior to the ones which we analysed. Which is impossible at this point, We have no way of confirming that those games were played prior to the ones uploaded here. On top of that, he blatantly maphacked in the other replays anyway...

[Meatex]

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

[PiG]

yeah at first i was skeptical about some of the things that catch maphackers, then i realised that once u get X amount of instances where they do shit THAT sus then they usually are. My good friend evets was a hacker right under my eyes and I didn't know it. Maybe you are a rare example of someone who isn't. But all you did was refute ONE example of u probably hacking.

You instead wrote a self-indulgent little rant about this site and the SEA server because you're a little piece of shit. "Can't be bothered" my ass. Go kill yourself mate.

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Go kill yourself?
	TABjornbrandr:	counter-rep for laying down the law
	ROOTPetraeus:	bit harsh
	MooZfY:	:(
	Eldrid:	laying down the law+1
	Nemo:	PiG righful fury. :) Well, Ghost don't kill yourself though, it's just a game. ;)
	Zealo:	**** hackers
	nirvAnA:	all good till last line piggy!
	syfChadMann:	I lol'd
	ToRSpartaz:	Last line man :(
	Rockstar:
	TASlowHands:	Thats not funny my goldfish died that way

[crAzerk]

@Meatex
Just watched the replay, and even though it seems suspicious, it's hardly conclusive, as you said so himself. Would need more replays to even put him on 'Suspected Hackers' imo.

Some random possible reasons I can think of:
- He has played you before and you do roach/ling all ins (no idea if this is true, just saying)
- He has played Zergs before this who roach/ling all in him and he wanted to be safe
- He is bad.

Weak reasons, yes, but similarly weak case.

@Pig
A little late, doncha think ? :/

[Theend]

It happens to me when i play random.
My opp said at the start of game example "dont 6p me"
Oh Pls.... i was playing random..... i have replay if u want see.
We cant prevent other from doing "whatever" they like.
As long as we play fair all is good i think
my2c

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

I think you should have stayed in the game until the end, you weren't too far behind. Just saying.

But yeah, 4 blind cannons is strange. would like to see more replays of this guy

[wTlzq]

What is the league of DeltaV?

[Apth]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

• Doesn't scout your expo
• Puts up a whole heap of cannons in anticipation of a Roach rush he doesn't know is coming

Indicative of hacking? Yes.
Proof? Unfortunately not.

I'd say that in all likelihood this guy is hacking, but unfortunately this is one of the instances of suspicious behaviour that could be explained away by game sense or random chance.

IMO - benefit of the doubt for now, any further evidence will be the nail in the coffin.

[TABjornbrandr]

Originally Posted by Theend

It happens to me when i play random.
My opp said at the start of game example "dont 6p me"
Oh Pls.... i was playing random..... i have replay if u want see.
We cant prevent other from doing "whatever" they like.
As long as we play fair all is good i think
my2c

That could easily stem from the fact that Random players are notorious for cheesing and with 6-pools being one of the most easily recognised cheeses, him saying that isn't necessarily indicative of him hacking.

@crazerk, I'd assume PiG saw that the thread had been posted in recently (by Meatex) and assumed that Ghost's response was current. Accident, nothing more.

[Meatex]

granted i didn't save the replays but if you watch the timing its pretty clearly reactive. I haven't played sc2 much for a while and certainly not against him or I'd have the replays
Not to mention a protoss will drop 2 cannons if he is worried about roach ling all in... not 4

In my eyes he is confirmed hacker but yeah we'll see if I play him more and can get more replays

[Eldrid]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

I watched this replay, and it seems a little sus.

Just on the making of the 4 cannons:

I have played protoss (and have them in my clan, and have talked to them about their decision making on this exact topic...)
When a protoss scouts gas first, and then CANT scout if you make an expansion due to having their probe killed (he did try to scout your expo, your lings killed it before it saw anything) the only safe way to play is to drop 3-4 cannons *incase* you roach all-in (practiced this all-in extensively, i learnt to deny scouting as you did, and this was the only way my clan-mates could stop the all in after having scouting denied). You cant react, you need to have defense up "just in case".

This is GM level decision making though. I dont actually know if it applies to a diamond level game. Perhaps this particular player loses to roach allin's alot and just made the cannons for safety? i don't know. I would label this as suspicious, certainly, but he did scout your gas first *however* he didnt scout if you went over 100 gas aka speed -> pull off gas -> economy only with speed build, this is the part that makes me suspicious.

Need more replays to confirm 30000% certainty.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

Thats right, if we are blind we are forced necessary defence for potential all in

[Theend]

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

That could easily stem from the fact that Random players are notorious for cheesing and with 6-pools being one of the most easily recognised cheeses, him saying that isn't necessarily indicative of him hacking.

u dont get it... right when the game start as early as first few second and someone tell u that.
so he has 6th sense to think of 6pool when the chance of zerg is 1/3?
edit:how do i upload a replay? im sry for nub question

[crAzerk]

@Bjornbrandr Yea well I'm not one of those who neg repped him

@ Everyone

It's good to post in here to catch potential hackers and stuff, but I would like to encourage everyone to save your posts for until you have good reason to believe the person is hacking.
And by good reason I mean :
- One replay of the person blatantly hacking (i.e. glancing into fog repeatedly)
- Multiple replays of the person reacting blindly but perfectly (e.g. Meatex's replay)
- Multiple replays of any other suspicious behavior
- In all cases, more replays are better than less.

If you post just a single replay without much to go on, it unnecessarily tarnishes the person's name and reputation. I'm sure you wouldn't want that for yourself!

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious
	Eldrid:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious
	iMSystem:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious?

[PiG]

yeah posting on phone ftl. also drunk and hence yes way too harsh . Still retarded attitude when it said he was only confirmed until he posts reps... and instead just loses his shit as if an institution was silencing him and he is just a hopeless freedom fighter or something ridiculous.

Really gets on my nerves when people think they're amazing because they make it to the "top" of SEA ladder and therefore the server is bad. Too stupid to comprehend that ladder is alot "easier" then the top players on it and that a server with 1/20th the players of any other serve will have 1/20th less pros and hence GM on SEA is not the same as GM on NA/EU/KR. 200 players here is actually a big % unlike on those servers.

Koreans get to the top of NA doing the DUMBEST builds I have ever seen literally just having better mechanics then their opponents. Ruff holds rank 1 GM on NA doing mass reaper rushes... ladder, enough said.

derp lets insult the server instead of arguing a few points and redeeming ourselves...

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	asdfSchnitzel:

[Eldrid]

^ cant rep, but agree with everything~

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Can't rep Pig, giving to Eldrid instead
	asdfSchnitzel:	I rep both! <3

[nGenLight]

If your a recognised player, it's game sense.

If you are a nobody, it's hacking.

I could make a lot of decisions based on tells I wouldn't let anybody know about (so they won't try to meta-game my tells). How can one possibly judge ones decision making? Unless its blatant hacking, its really hard to judge. We do not have the technology to do so, which is really disheartening.

E.g - I would make extra cannons based soley on what I see from my opponents natural when I scout it again. Yeah hide them queens and drones so I'll make useless cannons!

Quick Comments

Eldrid:

plz tell? :D

[iM yang]

You never know what people's experiences are. Maybe this guy has lost to roach allins before and he's just straight up made the decision to blind build 4 cannons if somebody goes gas first and doesn't scout the natural hatchery.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

If your a recognised player, it's game sense.

If you are a nobody, it's hacking.

I could make a lot of decisions based on tells I wouldn't let anybody know about (so they won't try to meta-game my tells). How can one possibly judge ones decision making? Unless its blatant hacking, its really hard to judge. We do not have the technology to do so, which is really disheartening.

E.g - I would make extra cannons based soley on what I see from my opponents natural when I scout it again. Yeah hide them queens and drones so I'll make useless cannons!

It's generally more basic than that. It's generally you make random choices without absolutely any scouting after the first drone scout. And then each time, and a big number of times, you make spot on the right choice without seeing anything.

It's not just reacting to what your scout see or don't see, but reacting without any sort of information.

Meatex, I will watch the replay when I'm back home tonight.

[Meatex]

I'm sorry as much as you might not want to draw conclusions one a single replay with no obvious map hacking no matter how I look at it - even when I try to find reasons I cannot come up with anything that makes sense and does not equate to losing games

I left the game because I'm just not interested in playing a hacker. And while this is the only replay I remember thinking he was a hacker before too.

In GM level there may be valid points to making extra cannons because you are unsure but that doesn't address the timing of his so called scout nor does it address that he basically sends the probe to die by actually a-moving to the bottom of the ramp at my natural.
Also note his supply right before my roaches arrive - that is he has had no indication of any all in. And this is when he has only 1 gate. There is no reason he would be spending that money on an additional pylon - given where he placed it - unless he knew an attack was coming and didn't want the 2 pylons already there to unpower his excessive cannon count. At 30/44 no less.

I also noted his reaction right after I dropped my roach warren. He was supply blocked but was making a pylon in his main. Granted he may just be retarded so he made 2 pylons though why he wouldn't prefer to spend that money on... you know more than 1 gateway. Cause he'll be safe for sure against an attack he has no idea is coming in theory but he won't be able to do anything. He can't even tech what with only 1 gas.

Maybe he planned the wall that way from the beginning, maybe his mechanics really are so bad that he has one gate and a free 20 supply with another pylon on the way. He is protoss after all and you don't exactly have to be good to win as protoss
Or more logically he is hacking as not even a platinum would lose in a macro game to this guy that gets supply blocked at 18 for a painfully long time and counters that by getting 3 pylons ahead in supply. Then makes 4 cannons - no gates and late gas meaning any tech is going to be late. All this against the most standard of standard ZvP builds in diamond - speedling expo.
I am the first to criticize blizzard on their fail coding but not even I can fathom how a protoss can get into diamond by playing such a style as his standard against 14/14 regardless of how OP protoss may be

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by Nemo

It's generally more basic than that. It's generally you make random choices without absolutely any scouting after the first drone scout. And then each time, and a big number of times, you make spot on the right choice without seeing anything.

It's not just reacting to what your scout see or don't see, but reacting without any sort of information.

Meatex, I will watch the replay when I'm back home tonight.

I disagree, I sometimes respond to things that I don't see coming simply for the fact that there is a potential that it is coming. Isn't that what being a safe player is all about? Maybe this accused player just likes being safe on 4 cannons and not dying to Roach rushes. You don't know that. Does me making cannons at my mineral lines after a roach push to prepare for a muta switch make me a hacker? He could easily be continueing massing roaches or going another tech, I cannon up because without so a muta switch would end the game, this is simply playing safe. It would be nice with perfect information, but without it I can only make guesses on imperfect information WHICH WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. I recall MC blindly making 3 cannons and a Stargate to defend Idras Hatch cancel all ins in a particular MLG. Does this make MC a hacker? Or does MC see something we don't see or perhaps simply being safe?

What constitutes as "information" varies from person to person. People may gather information from various places/experience. Therefore some people may not be as playing blindly as you think because of their indept knowledge at what might happen at certain times. I remember a period where I never scouted in PvT because I had a build that universally stopped everything.

[Sc2Clare]

not trying to be an a** but meatex has the tendency to call people hackers if he loses to them on ladder

*had it happened to me b4~~~

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

I disagree, I sometimes respond to things that I don't see coming simply for the fact that there is a potential that it is coming. Isn't that what being a safe player is all about? Maybe this accused player just likes being safe on 4 cannons and not dying to Roach rushes. You don't know that. Does me making cannons at my mineral lines after a roach push to prepare for a muta switch make me a hacker? He could easily be continueing massing roaches or going another tech, I cannon up because without so a muta switch would end the game, this is simply playing safe. It would be nice with perfect information, but without it I can only make guesses on imperfect information WHICH WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. I recall MC blindly making 3 cannons and a Stargate to defend Idras Hatch cancel all ins in a particular MLG. Does this make MC a hacker? Or does MC see something we don't see or perhaps simply being safe?

I don't speak about this game I haven't watched yet, but about the other hackers before in this thread. For all of them that were "confirmed" we had blatant hack (those corruptors sniping the Mothership), confession, or too much too suspect moves or decisions.

Edit:

Originally Posted by iVnClare

not trying to be an a** but meatex has the tendency to call people hackers if he loses to them on ladder

*had it happened to me b4~~~

Don't introduce your personal grudges in here please. Judge the case on the evidence we have. Thanks.

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by lzq

What is the league of DeltaV?

high diamond

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

my search of my ladder history brought up 3 replays. in none of them was he doing things like look at my base through fog or anything else i would consider obvious signs of hacking.

+ Show +

replay 1, 28/07/2011: a 4v4, deltaV left at the 2 minute mark. no evidence of hacking

replay 2, 14/02/2012: i 10 pool ling all in, he scouts the pool and gas as they go down then leaves a probe at my natural and goes double gas > DT. probe at my nat makes me think he's not prod tab hacking or map hacking, as he would know if i expanded without the probe there, and bringing probe home to mine would be reasonable to do (ie, not considerred a tell he's hacking)

replay 3, 16/02/2012: http://drop.sc/118896
shakuras - i do a 1 base marine medivac all in. his total scouting consists of his probe seeing my 13 rax/14 gas

+ Show +

(after doing this weird thing where he scouts my ramp then checks the other base. i can understand doing that vs terran (which he would know with prod tab hacks), but PvP or PvZ (or PvT against someone who doesn't bother walling vs toss) there would be nothing at the ramp for him to see and he'd be better off spending 3 seconds walking the probe in further)

then a zealot seeing 3 marines at my ramp (and no expo/bunker on the low ground) just before stim finishes. (ie, he knows i have a barracks that has been making marines) production tab would reveal i have a reactoron my 2nd rax and a factory about to finish. his response is to throw down a collosus den and a third gateway, making colossus and stalkers. production tab reveals i am getting a techlab, 3 marines at a time and a starport, he expands. at this point his obs finishes (was supply blocked for ages so very late) and goes directly to my base (not worried about cloak banshees?) no further analysis is possible as he can see everything i'm doing anyway.

how does a player with terrible macro get to high diamond doing shit like 1 base 3gate stalker+colossus, then expanding because he has 700 minerals, (almost totally) blindly?

if you assume he's not hacking, you can argue; he was planning to do a one base colossus all in (?) then decided not too (because he saw 3 marines and no expo on the low ground?) and expanded instead. OR he was doing a super safe expansion opening (?). both seem unlikely at high diamond level.

if you assume he has prod tab hack, you can argue; colossus are a response to seeing i'm going pure marine, no expansion is in response to seeing i haven't even started a CC on my high ground. he has the option of doing some sort of timing to punish my expansion, but decides against it when he realises i'm making tanks and a starport instead of a CC. instead he expands, knowing all he has to do to win is hold off my push and use his tech and income advantage to roll me in a macro game.

either way, his decision making in both games is so bad i don't want to use it as evidence against him.

tl;dr it wouldn't surprise me if he makes 4 cannons blindly every time he FFEs, need more replays if you want to accuse him of anything.

[Meatex]

I do believe at that MLG he had some kind of scouting information
Regardless light have you watched the replay?

I can understand making 2 cannons in your mineral lines to be safe from mutas, drops etc. That is usually done later in the game where you income can handle the extra cannons without harming your econ or army too much for very long.
This guys makes 4 cannons VERY early. Second cannon at 4:30.
Can you honestly say that you would drop money on extra pylons so your cannons stay up, later gas, no gates and 4 cannons after seeing a 14/14 and losing your zealot at the tower to 4 lings - which happened well after the extra cannons anyway.
Now lets so you do. What happens then when the zerg made 4 lings and mass drones while taking a third. Not only because you are on one gateway for so long could you do nothing to prevent the zerg from getting perfect mid game econ up easily. all possible tech would be delayed because you don't have a great deal of gas.
The cannons simply do not make any sense unless he was going for stargate or DT tech but he simply didn't have the gas for it as well as he was chronoing his warpgate. Especially as he was going straight for sentries out of that one gateway.

Here is what I understand of PvZ - now i'm not light but please do refute anything I say if its utterly incorrect.
When I have tried the same roach ling all in the biggest weakness is that first zealot. If the protoss sends that out to scout it will see the roaches and there will be enough time to drop extra cannons. I have seen the same in pro games as well. So it seems a pretty common play. Maybe you put a second cannon if you can't confirm expo or guys off gas then send the zealot and he will give you enough warning.

Additionally why 4 cannons? I'm fairly certain that barring artosis pylon, 3 cannons will hold with sentries so why make 4 unless you know a lot of stuff is coming?

@Clare
No idea who you are bro so no offense but keep your personal attacks to yourself.
I'm not raging or even mad just disappointed that blizzard are incapable of dealing with hackers effectively and promptly. I report it here because I would rather them take the points - as its clearly all they care about - and me get to move on to a proper game as quickly as possible. Thats my feelings and perhaps others feel the same and would rather leave than to play against someone who is hacking.

[iM yang]

Meatex, you weren't playing against a grandmaster player, maybe Diamond players aren't good enough to hold with 3 cannons and a sentrys. I would definately add on cannons after scouting a 14/14 as that opening is less economic and you can afford the extra defense if they make enough lings to deny scouting.

Making 4 cannons is very similiar to making 1 cannon when denied scouting as either one is weak to a specific thing the zerg does. What makes you so sure that he didn't lose to this SAME allin a bunch of times before and was on tilt? Why is he automatically hacking?
I think you are too quick to call somebody a hacker based on this one game. People do coin-flippy shit ALL the time, get used to it.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	Zealo:	♥

[wTlzq]

quote from idra: u cant make a read on bad players cause they dont know what they are doing

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

[Meatex]

as said in my previous posts - I had played him before couple of times and his game sense was uncannily suss. I will save future replays against him. Zealo also has a replay that shows some rather "good" game sense.
Also nobody in diamond does random 4 cannons... ever. Also given how it most certainly seemed like a reaction to seeing me drop a roach warren. Conjecture perhaps but given how Diamond ZvP is about droning until the protoss does some kind of a move all in and then you die and rage about protoss OP.
So its not so much a coinflip as a 99 sided die and he is banking on it not rolling 1-98.

As much as I doubt you will believe me - I am not being biased. Simply want to save others the wasted time. Try watching the replay and addressing some of the points I made rather than saying he got lucky end of story so QQ somewhere else.

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

I'm sorry as much as you might not want to draw conclusions one a single replay with no obvious map hacking no matter how I look at it - even when I try to find reasons I cannot come up with anything that makes sense and does not equate to losing games

I left the game because I'm just not interested in playing a hacker. And while this is the only replay I remember thinking he was a hacker before too.

In GM level there may be valid points to making extra cannons because you are unsure but that doesn't address the timing of his so called scout nor does it address that he basically sends the probe to die by actually a-moving to the bottom of the ramp at my natural.
Also note his supply right before my roaches arrive - that is he has had no indication of any all in. And this is when he has only 1 gate. There is no reason he would be spending that money on an additional pylon - given where he placed it - unless he knew an attack was coming and didn't want the 2 pylons already there to unpower his excessive cannon count. At 30/44 no less.

I also noted his reaction right after I dropped my roach warren. He was supply blocked but was making a pylon in his main. Granted he may just be retarded so he made 2 pylons though why he wouldn't prefer to spend that money on... you know more than 1 gateway. Cause he'll be safe for sure against an attack he has no idea is coming in theory but he won't be able to do anything. He can't even tech what with only 1 gas.

Maybe he planned the wall that way from the beginning, maybe his mechanics really are so bad that he has one gate and a free 20 supply with another pylon on the way. He is protoss after all and you don't exactly have to be good to win as protoss
Or more logically he is hacking as not even a platinum would lose in a macro game to this guy that gets supply blocked at 18 for a painfully long time and counters that by getting 3 pylons ahead in supply. Then makes 4 cannons - no gates and late gas meaning any tech is going to be late. All this against the most standard of standard ZvP builds in diamond - speedling expo.
I am the first to criticize blizzard on their fail coding but not even I can fathom how a protoss can get into diamond by playing such a style as his standard against 14/14 regardless of how OP protoss may be

MC had apparently no scouting infromation on Idrain that MLG game (according to Tastosis). Whether MC knew it was coming we wouldn't have a clue, we are not MC.

I was debating sentiments with Nemo, I have absolutely no interest if whether this player hacks or not.

Listen to what Yang said, and don't even try pinning hacks on one game. I've won game on old metal close position where I just went a build that requires my opponent in the close spot to be successful. But I did it blindly anyway, because I can. I can stare at the fog of my opponents whenever I want, I did that in CH tourney to prove how silly it is, anyone watching those replays would call me a hacker outright. These EVIDENCE IS WEAK.

Consider this scenario: I sent an ob to my terran opponents base, my opponent scans and kills it before I see anything. I have no idea what he is doing, but because I know the potential of medivac drop comes around a particular timing, I automatically place units in my main to deny drops - this with no information at all but my experience and my desire for not being killed because I'm playing unsafe. Does that reaction make me a hacker?

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	u argue lots
	AxSGRiM:	but i like it when u argue
	asdfSchnitzel:	arguing is key :)

[iM yang]

I watched the replay and I would address your points if they made sense. A diamond player might say to himself 'oh i might be getting allined i better make cannons' but nothing further.
You straight up shouldn't try to call somebody out on being a hacker with this little evidence, despite the rationalizations you make with this theorycrafting.

Looking over Zealo's replay - it looks like he scouted you and your opening basically shows all you can see against a 1-1-1 and all his reactions make sense, getting colossi and expanding.

[Meatex]

So a random strat that outright loses to standard ZvP is just him getting lucky?
A diamond player that gets supply blocked for a minute-ish and gets nearly 20 extra supply with another pylon on the way when he has 1 gateway and isn't putting chrono on the nexus - this guy is going to have such crisp timings that he knows he needs 4 cannons and 3 pylons so he doesn't lose power to them.
Not to mention that 3 seconds after my roach warren drops is when he starts dropping extra cannons.
At least with close spawns its a 33% chance of being successful.

I did say this several times that this isn't the only game, just the only replay I have presently. I don't make this post lightly or out of rage or anything like you seem to think.
I have lost ZvZ matches where the guy 6 pool all 1 spine rushed me and sent his drone to the right spawn first time in two seperate games. TDA and entombed valley - he couldn't have inferred by scouting overlord to narrow the odds either but he could have just gotten lucky twice in a row.

I had to deal with the whole evets debacle so don't insult me by insinuating I am accusing this player without proper consideration

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Listen to what Yang said, and don't even try pinning hacks on one game. I've won game on old metal close position where I just went a build that requires my opponent in the close spot to be successful. But I did it blindly anyway, because I can. I can stare at the fog of my opponents whenever I want, I did that in CH tourney to prove how silly it is, anyone watching those replays would call me a hacker outright. These EVIDENCE IS WEAK.

Do I understand you faked hacking to prove searching for such evidence of maphack is wrong ? People usually are not faking maphacking. No accused people ever tried to pretend that. I'm not even certain that you could really trick us because the real evidences are when the hacker react every time opponent is doing something and at no other moment. And if you're faking maphack you can't obviously do that. If you're interested in my methods, we can watch together Ghosts 4 games and I'm interested to hear what you think about what I found and what you find in those games.

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Consider this scenario: I sent an ob to my terran opponents base, my opponent scans and kills it before I see anything. I have no idea what he is doing, but because I know the potential of medivac drop comes around a particular timing, I automatically place units in my main to deny drops - this with no information at all but my experience and my desire for not being killed because I'm playing unsafe. Does that reaction make me a hacker?

Well, Ghost never made a Obs in the 2 games he hacked in where he had a robo (only one in end game when there was a unscouted Ghost Academy thrown down by Timber) ...
But if you make a obs to scout it's already a good sign of not maphacking. Then if you can't scout (or don't want) and make assumptions, you will let some troops and cannons were you think there are danger. But if you don't scout, don't prepare for anything, then prepare yourself every time he's out without you seeing anything, then there is something fishy. The problem of Ghost was that he was not preparing for anything, never scouted and was never caught offgard.
Watch those with me, I'm interested in your opinion.

Quick Comments

PiG:

agree

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

I did say this several times that this isn't the only game, just the only replay I have presently.

it is all the evidence you have, and it's not enough to make such a serious accusation. it's enough to say "this looks suspicious, does anyone else have replays against this guy on ladder?"

no one is going to call him a hacker based on your feelings or based on replays you deleted. the sooner you accept this the easier it will be for everyone.

I don't make this post lightly or out of rage or anything like you seem to think.

well you seem pretty emotional...

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

So a random strat that outright loses to standard ZvP is just him getting lucky?
A diamond player that gets supply blocked for a minute-ish and gets nearly 20 extra supply with another pylon on the way when he has 1 gateway and isn't putting chrono on the nexus - this guy is going to have such crisp timings that he knows he needs 4 cannons and 3 pylons so he doesn't lose power to them.
Not to mention that 3 seconds after my roach warren drops is when he starts dropping extra cannons.
At least with close spawns its a 33% chance of being successful.

I did say this several times that this isn't the only game, just the only replay I have presently. I don't make this post lightly or out of rage or anything like you seem to think.
I have lost ZvZ matches where the guy 6 pool all 1 spine rushed me and sent his drone to the right spawn first time in two seperate games. TDA and entombed valley - he couldn't have inferred by scouting overlord to narrow the odds either but he could have just gotten lucky twice in a row.

I had to deal with the whole evets debacle so don't insult me by insinuating I am accusing this player without proper consideration

While you say there's other games, I can't see the replays so that doesn't change how I view this. Sometimes people don't have extremely crisp openings and precise reactions to everything. Maybe he was distracted, then he thought since you denied his scout instead of going to his base you might be allin'ing and he panicked.
I'm only saying that you have posted in this thread that this guy is a hacker in your eyes with this incredibly flimsy replay to back up your opinion.

[pRoTimber]

nth much to say from my own replay except for weird build, movements. 1st thing that came to my mind is nobody that is good play this way. A while after my game, i find him bragging on sc2sea chatbox with his record, and also zvz builds saying why nobody go for 15hatch etc and answering zvz strat questions from stallion. ngeneclipse and ngenphoenix both lost and didnt notice any sign of hack, im assuming maybe its harder to notice as a toss. but from his match history, his zvz victories over player like kottbullar and revenant as well as other zerg players are really suspicious, i would thought to myself, who the hell plays like this. and also in zvt, roach kills if theyr played in a way like iceiceice did, but not in a manner like this guy did in most of his zvt. more replays would be helpful!

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Timber, the bane of hackers !

[Zealo]

i wish i could give yang rep for every one of his posts in this thread

Originally Posted by crAzerk

It's good to post in here to catch potential hackers and stuff, but I would like to encourage everyone to save your posts for until you have good reason to believe the person is hacking.

what do you suggest for replays that are 'suspicious', but not conclusive? i think it's worth having somewhere to post them so other people can check their replays against that player; if they really are hacking it's about the only way to gather evidence.

i agree there are some accusations that go far beyond the evidence, but anyone willing to make such accusations would probably make them anyway in a new thread.

[Meatex]

Originally Posted by Zealo

it is all the evidence you have, and it's not enough to make such a serious accusation. it's enough to say "this looks suspicious, does anyone else have replays against this guy on ladder?"

no one is going to call him a hacker based on your feelings or based on replays you deleted. the sooner you accept this the easier it will be for everyone.


well you seem pretty emotional...

I posted my analysis of the replay
Yes it is not enough for anyone else to say 100% he is likely a hacker but I have had more experience and was simply noting that to give the initial post some context.
I thought the whole does anybody else have thoughts or evidence thing was a given but my mistake

And I am getting annoyed because I made a post with all due consideration and people are responding with disrespect and insinuating I am doing this out of a QQ fit or something. That is simply insulting to me especially when the roles where reversed when the same players telling me its just luck, get over it where crying fowl over a single replay of evets while I was giving the same arguments - maybe it was luck etc etc.

But I will leave it here - I've had enough underhanded bm for today

[iM yang]

You're taking this very personally, don't get so worked up. I didn't even post when the evets discussion was happening. I've said this multiple times, you seem like you're reading too much into this game. As basically everybody has said since you posted the replay.

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Do I understand you faked hacking to prove searching for such evidence of maphack is wrong ? People usually are not faking maphacking. No accused people ever tried to pretend that. I'm not even certain that you could really trick us because the real evidences are when the hacker react every time opponent is doing something and at no other moment. And if you're faking maphack you can't obviously do that. If you're interested in my methods, we can watch together Ghosts 4 games and I'm interested to hear what you think about what I found and what you find in those games.


Well, Ghost never made a Obs in the 2 games he hacked in where he had a robo (only one in end game when there was a unscouted Ghost Academy thrown down by Timber) ...
But if you make a obs to scout it's already a good sign of not maphacking. Then if you can't scout (or don't want) and make assumptions, you will let some troops and cannons were you think there are danger. But if you don't scout, don't prepare for anything, then prepare yourself every time he's out without you seeing anything, then there is something fishy. The problem of Ghost was that he was not preparing for anything, never scouted and was never caught offgard.
Watch those with me, I'm interested in your opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I think you are doing an amazing job and putting in an incredible amount of effort doing these analysis, and it's certainly doing much more good than anything. I really don't have the time to determine if this guy is hacking or not but just from the posts I can tell that his actions are extremely suspicious and definitely worthy of discussion.

What I was trying to say is that, no matter how suspicious someone is, it is impossible to pinpoint someone as hacking. Let me give an example: I spawn on Shakuras Plateau PvP, I constantly check one of the two possible spawn locations of my opponent, I blindly proxy gate near the spawning location I was checking, I proceed to two gate and win. I do this for 10 games in a row. 5 of these games I would be called out for "blatant hacking" when I'm just doing something completely retarded and risky. This is what I mean by no matter how suspicious someone is, there are no conclusive evidence.

Regarding the Diamond protoss player that went 4 cannons against a Possible Roach rush. There is by far not enough evidence to even classify him as suspicious.

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

Yes it is not enough for anyone else to say 100% he is likely a hacker

i find it hard to understand how you can acknowledge this and still be upset people refuse to call him a confirmed hacker :S

I have had more experience and was simply noting that to give the initial post some context.

that applies for the first time you mentioned these 'other games', why did you bring them up another 7 times after that?

I thought the whole does anybody else have thoughts or evidence thing was a given but my mistake

people posted there thoughts and other replays of him, wtf else do you want?

And I am getting annoyed because I made a post with all due consideration and people are responding with disrespect and insinuating I am doing this out of a QQ fit or something.

no one responded to your initial post in the way you're describing. everyone loved your initial post. people are responding negatively to the way you keep repeating the same accusation over and over with no new evidence in an increasingly whiny fashion.

That is simply insulting to me

it's nothing personal, my perception of you from what i've seen/remembered is very positive. i hate hackers as much as anyone, and am very supportive of posts like your initial post as people may look more closely at that player and if something concrete is found another hacker can be exiled and made an example of.

Quick Comments

	Meatex:	you failed to understand why i'm upset - and i even explained
	asdfSchnitzel:	Counter rep rep rep....rep!

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

What I was trying to say is that, no matter how suspicious someone is, it is impossible to pinpoint someone as hacking. Let me give an example: I spawn on Shakuras Plateau PvP, I constantly check one of the two possible spawn locations of my opponent, I blindly proxy gate near the spawning location I was checking, I proceed to two gate and win. I do this for 10 games in a row. 5 of these games I would be called out for "blatant hacking" when I'm just doing something completely retarded and risky. This is what I mean by no matter how suspicious someone is, there are no conclusive evidence.

no one reasonable is suggesting something like that example would be enough to call them a 'blatant hacker'

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

I had someone do sumfing like that to me 2 games in a row, pretty sure he was hacking

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

nth much to say from my own replay except for weird build, movements. 1st thing that came to my mind is nobody that is good play this way. A while after my game, i find him bragging on sc2sea chatbox with his record, and also zvz builds saying why nobody go for 15hatch etc and answering zvz strat questions from stallion. ngeneclipse and ngenphoenix both lost and didnt notice any sign of hack, im assuming maybe its harder to notice as a toss. but from his match history, his zvz victories over player like kottbullar and revenant as well as other zerg players are really suspicious, i would thought to myself, who the hell plays like this. and also in zvt, roach kills if theyr played in a way like iceiceice did, but not in a manner like this guy did in most of his zvt. more replays would be helpful!

Watched the replay.

Contrary to lights will to argue and his weird examples i pinpoint this pelican as a 100% hacker

Reasons for include:

1. Incredible lack of scouting (No xel'naga tower control, No overlord spread, no unit sacrifices)
2. Producing units in reaction to unseen pushes
3. Constant repositioning of army in reaction to yours without having any vision of your army.
4. so many obvious examples but one that I'm sure anyone would agree with is his overlord scouting of your 3rd at 20:20. Completely random and he hasn't even scouted your bottom expansions once.


Yep he hacks, and hes also a douche-bag for his comments at the end.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Don't get me wrong, I think you are doing an amazing job and putting in an incredible amount of effort doing these analysis, and it's certainly doing much more good than anything. I really don't have the time to determine if this guy is hacking or not but just from the posts I can tell that his actions are extremely suspicious and definitely worthy of discussion.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

What I was trying to say is that, no matter how suspicious someone is, it is impossible to pinpoint someone as hacking. Let me give an example: I spawn on Shakuras Plateau PvP, I constantly check one of the two possible spawn locations of my opponent, I blindly proxy gate near the spawning location I was checking, I proceed to two gate and win. I do this for 10 games in a row. 5 of these games I would be called out for "blatant hacking" when I'm just doing something completely retarded and risky. This is what I mean by no matter how suspicious someone is, there are no conclusive evidence.

It's the accumulation of evidence that make proof. It's a question of statistic. If a slightly suspicious move has 80% chance of being luck or game sense and 20% chance of being Map Hack, then if you have 10 consecutive occurrences of it, then the odds become (80%)Exp8 = 10,7% of chance it's still luck. And if in 2 games like that it becomes 10,7%*10,7% = 1,1% of chance it's luck.

You can't be that precise of course in measuring luck and hack probability but it's to illustrate the process of accumulation.

If you're doing blind proxy gates systematically, you give your last 3 replays of PVP on Shakuras and all suspicion is lifted.

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Regarding the Diamond protoss player that went 4 cannons against a Possible Roach rush. There is by far not enough evidence to even classify him as suspicious.

I have watched the replay. It's a too short game to have any conclusion about this.

Meatex was still right to post it. That's curious enough to be attentive in the future. I'm pretty sure our process is not going to condemn an innocent guy. They have the possibility to defend themselves.

[pRoTimber]

yeah rossi, he is a douchebag..thanks for your review!

one does not simply win over revenant in ZvZ and brags about it in sc2sea chatbox

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

[pRoTimber]

i forgot to name him...his in game name is MeLo

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

[AxSGRiM]

MeLo was once a terrible protoss player camping at the bottom of masters league. Now, aided with his maphacks, he goes straight to gm w/ zerg.

[EveSnow]

Watched Timber replay on MeLo. Blatant maphack. Army movements goes against what he sees. Anw GJ taking him down even though he hacked

[ToRSpartaz]

Just saying that this thread, kinda has destroyed my trust in the game. Even at the slightest sign of a "Hacker" I just dont feel the same as I once did. It really sucks tbh. Although I do still appreciate the amazing game sense by some players though (:

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Just saying that this thread, kinda has destroyed my trust in the game. Even at the slightest sign of a "Hacker" I just dont feel the same as I once did. It really sucks tbh. Although I do still appreciate the amazing game sense by some players though (:

Should be the contrary mate. Thanks to this thread, every map hacker on SEA could now fear the public shame of being caught. It sure makes the SEA server a better place to play.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Should be the contrary mate. Thanks to this thread, every map hacker on SEA could now fear the public shame of being caught. It sure makes the SEA server a better place to play.

Yeah, but ALWAYS im on the lookout in the community for these people >.<

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Yeah, but ALWAYS im on the lookout in the community for these people >.<

Haha, you don't need to. They are quite rare and they will be revealed quickly enough, don't worry. One day or another they will cross the road of the Hackerbane Timber and be revealed.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Zealo

what do you suggest for replays that are 'suspicious', but not conclusive? i think it's worth having somewhere to post them so other people can check their replays against that player; if they really are hacking it's about the only way to gather evidence.

Show them to your friends / clanmates first. I remember several cases in this thread where the accuser (person submitting a replay) actually consulted his clan mates first, and after the consensus is that it's highly sus then you can post them here.But do try to get multiple replays rather than just one suspicious replay as mentioned earlier.
And if all your friends actually agree that the replay is HIGHLY suspicious, you could post it here even if it's just one, BUT as I've said, it's always better to have more than one replay for better support.

The fact is most players (above a certain skill level) are able to 'detect suspicious play', it doesn't take a genius or some veteran to classify it as suspicious. The problem is each of us would naturally have some kind of bias + imperfect information (e.g. you don't know all the reactions of every race), which is why we encourage you to get just a few others to check out the replay as well first, before making such a heavy accusation of hacking.

And the rationale for requiring multiple replays for suspicious (and not blatant) behavior has been explained multiple times in the past 2 pages, just have a look. You can't just base judgement off one game.
I still remember one particular ladder game I was abit bored and I just stared at random points in the fog in early parts of the game - until I suddenly thought 'oh shit what if this guy accuses me of maphacking?' and so I stopped it. Stuff like that.

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Just saying that this thread, kinda has destroyed my trust in the game. Even at the slightest sign of a "Hacker" I just dont feel the same as I once did. It really sucks tbh. Although I do still appreciate the amazing game sense by some players though (:

I have never been in one of my games and gone 'this guy must be hacking'. I'm too busy focussed on my own play to even care if they were hacking or not. I'm of the opinion that even if they are hacking you should be able to beat them as whatever they can do, somebody can do in a regular game against you so why even both suspected them of hacking. :P

[Rockstar]

Watching Meatex's replay once through normally, then once through with production tab open and keeping an eye on minerals and probe production leads me to believe that he may be hacking. It's circumstantial and more replays of similar circumstances are needed before it's conclusive.

Any and all advantage he gains from his FFE opening is lost when he spends copious amounts of minerals on static defence and cuts probe production. If this is his standard FFE opening it is a very poor choice of builds and he would have next to no chance of winning against a competent macro zerg... Which is the standard reaction to the FFE.

edit: just before the roaches are in vision he selects his sentry and probe and moves them back. before this he hadn't moved them at all.

extra edit: Nothing was stopping him from attempting a secondary scout on Meatex's natural to be sure it was a 1base all-in

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by SQL.yang

I have never been in one of my games and gone 'this guy must be hacking'. I'm too busy focussed on my own play to even care if they were hacking or not. I'm of the opinion that even if they are hacking you should be able to beat them as whatever they can do, somebody can do in a regular game against you so why even both suspected them of hacking. :P

Pretty much this while im playing, however since the beginning when a new face arises out of nowhere that ive never heard of and has no lan results I assume they're a hacker until proven otherwise at lan.

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

Pretty much this while im playing, however since the beginning when a new face arises out of nowhere that ive never heard of and has no lan results I assume they're a hacker until proven otherwise at lan.

That's just your dirty cs mind at work.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

Pretty much this while im playing, however since the beginning when a new face arises out of nowhere that ive never heard of and has no lan results I assume they're a hacker or a Korean until proven otherwise at lan.

Fixed your post

[Champi]

lol, just watched timbers replay, that MeLo guy is an ultimate moonstar

[PiG]

Yeah I agree with what Yang said. I think only of ur allinning a lot can you easily detect maphacking. Otherwise way too focused on your own play.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by PiG

Yang

I disagree with PiG's use of capitalisation.

However I agree with yang's above statement about hackers..
GoSuwbc doesn't though.

[framtidenskrig]

lol, i didnt actually knew that you could hack without being detected in sc2 :O

[Statix]

ive read this thread with some interest, cheating doesnt really apply to me as there are too many mistakes in my play for me to know anyway. all i do is think it was a smurf . . everyone that beats me is a smurf . . or hacking but i kinda realised on games a long time ago that you are never going to get away from this. Some people just cheat! This is the minority however and on a game like this it will be spotted at those top levels. All im worried about is some of you have gone into the craziest detail to out these people. Man. WAW. Its sooooo in depth! Im really impressed with the level youve taken it. Look at what the cheats have done to you. Have you invest a great deal of time to chase them around! Just leave em be, post their name and replay and leave it at that. Guys dont give them your time, i know you mean the world of good but look how much time of yours they are wasting!

seriously tho, i cant believe the effort you lot put in, its one cool and dedicated place this

[wTlzq]

Originally Posted by Statix

ive read this thread with some interest, cheating doesnt really apply to me as there are too many mistakes in my play for me to know anyway. all i do is think it was a smurf . . everyone that beats me is a smurf . . or hacking but i kinda realised on games a long time ago that you are never going to get away from this. Some people just cheat! This is the minority however and on a game like this it will be spotted at those top levels. All im worried about is some of you have gone into the craziest detail to out these people. Man. WAW. Its sooooo in depth! Im really impressed with the level youve taken it. Look at what the cheats have done to you. Have you invest a great deal of time to chase them around! Just leave em be, post their name and replay and leave it at that. Guys dont give them your time, i know you mean the world of good but look how much time of yours they are wasting!

seriously tho, i cant believe the effort you lot put in, its one cool and dedicated place this

The hackers are pointed out, so that the community are aware of it. Thus barring them from community activities( such as BSG/ GPD/ Masters cup or clans) to prevent unfair competition. All in all, we want to send a msg that hacking is not tolerated

Quick Comments

Statix:

i understand why we do it man . . . just the time u put into doing it, id sooner mow my lawn

[iVnStinger]

Bob Marley, two days after being shot,
showed up and said
"The people that are making this world worse don't take a day off, how can I?"

I realize your point that eliminating cheaters and hackers will never truly succeed, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying

[Meatex]

that is incorrect - eliminating cheaters can be done, at least from online portions of games.
Its simply no company is willing to put in the time and money to do so.

So all we can do is gather our own list and refuse to play such people

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

<3

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

that is incorrect - eliminating cheaters can be done, at least from online portions of games.
Its simply no company is willing to put in the time and money to do so.

So all we can do is gather our own list and refuse to play such people

That is another way of putting it.

Quick Comments

	Meatex:	problem... bro?
	iM yang:	stop getting butthurt meatex

[iVnStinger]

Ok not to fuss but I believe that is misuse of the rep system. If I may ask, how did that deserve a neg rep? In the original post, I said "cool story bro, that is exactly what I mean in my posty ". After reading that I decided to change it cause I was being kind of rude. Niether one deserves a negative rep don't you think ?

[Meatex]

I believe the negative rep should be used for exactly what I used it for
Indicating I feel what you said was rude - especially considering my post wasn't directed at you ~.~

Yes I am a stickler for that kind of thing and takes things too personally pretty easily unless I magically get a good night sleep
So my bad