[Peleus]

If there is debate about the replay it's clearly inconclusive and we need to see more examples before we judge people. There is little value in going 12 rounds over something that neither side is likely to be convinced about.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Exactly
	mGGDaedalus:

[Nemo]

His actions are very suspicious. Even if he has seen that probe coming from there, the normal action would have been to check that zone to be sure and not let his probe go to opponent base.

But, it's a bit too short to put him on the list, we can't be 100% sure. Though we definitly need to scrutiny his games closelly and watch any replay that we could have from him.

Saying Notorious is accusing Wallace because he lost is nonsence because that game is very suscpiscious and he was absolutly right to post it.

Quick Comments

x5.NotoriouS:

thankyou

[Chappo]

Personally I think the three obvious choices are:
He was hacking
He is the next GSL champion (With spotting that probe on the minimap and figuring out it was a 2gate - even though I would think forge would have been a better response.)
He was doing a horrible build. (2gate...not proxied...instantly scouted...is not the best build in the world.)

Again, personally while I think the replay certainly isn't concrete proof, I do think that hacking is the most likely option. Nevertheless, it isn't completely conclusive and hopefully nobody is arguing that.

Standard and Domo will be talking to Wallace to get his side to the story. But I just want to say thanks to all the geniuses who have pointed out if he was hacking that he probably won't confess, I've written that down on a brick and plan to smack myself in the face with it during the discussion with Wallace so I won't forget...because I have the naivety of a 12 year old and don't recognize the painfully obvious.

Good talk

Quick Comments

	ThatGuyDoMo:	By the hammer of Thor!
	Snx.Mufasa:	^__^
	x5.NotoriouS:	well said!
	PiG:	hahaha

[PiG]

Mufasa. You're not reading people's posts properly. If you're going to keep posting here and defending your clanmate please relax and take a bit more time to read.

The point made by PurePheonix is that the probe never showed up on the minimap. You tried to discredit this claim by showing a screenshot of that same moment where the probe also doesn't appear to show up on the minimap. Not sure what point you're trying to make? You realise whether it showed on-screen to his (accused) probe makes no difference as his cam was supposedly centred on his nexus at the time. That's something you can confirm in a replay.

Now as for defending friends. Take advice from someone who's been in your shoes, there is no consensus on whether he was hacking or not yet. You have a biased opinion due to him being your clanmate and there's no way you can make a fair assessment of the situation. I remember feeling like the evidence against my mate was far from concrete until he admitted it and i watched the replay again.

Chill out and hats off to you for standing up for your friend mate

Quick Comments

Snx.Mufasa:

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by PiG

wall

oh didn't realise pure was saying that because... the reason i saw the probe was because it showed up on the mini map.

though ill double check that it did.

thanks for the advice though

^__^

edit. i double checked and it does come up on the mini map but as chappo pointed out he's either potentially the next gsl champ or just incredibly lucky to see it.

im as suspicious as you guys are... just feel i got a responsibility to be on wallace's side till nemo deems him a hacker.

also, apologies to anyone where i may of been overly defensive : )

Quick Comments

	ThatGuyDoMo:	Ryan...
	PiG:
	iVnStinger:	F**K YOU DOMO, DON'T BRING ME INTO THIS

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by iVnMufasa

im as suspicious as you guys are... just feel i got a responsibility to be on wallace's side till nemo deems him a hacker.

It's the whole community decision, not mine (or only mine).

Do you have replays of games with him ? Even friendly games inside your clan could be useful. It's unlicked that he MH in a friendly game, but we never know ....

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by Nemo

It's the whole community decision, not mine (or only mine).

Do you have replays of games with him ? Even friendly games inside your clan could be useful. It's unlicked that he MH in a friendly game, but we never know ....

thats true, though im sure since you seem to follow the thread pretty closely that you have a pretty large say.

anyways, not sure about other replays, we've only just recently become more active but ill have a look around and ask if anyone's played with him recently.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Nemo

It's the whole community decision, not mine (or only mine).

Just to add on to inform the public about how the 'list' is generated, AFAIK I'm the only one who adds /removes people from the OP list, ever since nirvAnA gave me ownership of the OP halfway through

Nemo clearly has a lot of credibility due to his long-term involvement with this thread, but while I trust his analyses, I personally also review all of the replays myself to double-check before adding anyone to 'confirmed'.

In most cases, I'm always the most hesitant to add anyone to the list, because of the stigma involved in being labelled a hacker, especially in ambiguous cases. (Those who have been following this thread for awhile should know this) Thus you can be sure that anyone who is on the list is either blatantly hacking or has been deemed by a large majority of credible, reliable (i.e. high-level) players to be hacking.

I would like to thank those who have been submitting any such reports, and also remind everyone to be as detailed as possible in your reports instead of just submitting a replay without pointing out the points of suspicion. This saves a great deal of time as well as alerts us to precisely where to look at.

As for defending your clan mates, the best way to do so is to ask him to personally step forward and provide an explanation to his actions. Most of the time maphackers don't as they have nothing to say. And if he wasn't hacking it shouldn't be that difficult to defend his actions.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:
	Snx.Mufasa:	+1 & will get wallace to post next time he's on

[UHF]

Seeing as he is camera was stationary at his nexus for so long, he might have been staring at his minimap and caught the probe. As for cheatin, it's too hard to tell either way IMO.

Quick Comments

	Snx.Mufasa:	the picture is so clear O.O
	PiG:	that's the screen-cap we needed earlier!

[Peleus]

For what it's worth I've got 9 replays vs Wallace. I watched the most recent 3-4 and couldn't find anything even hinting towards map hacking.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Peleus

For what it's worth I've got 9 replays vs Wallace. I watched the most recent 3-4 and couldn't find anything even hinting towards map hacking.

Well post them all please with the dates you played him. 9 random ladder games will certainly help us understand this case.

Post all of them please.

[Peleus]

http://drop.sc/171829
http://drop.sc/171828
http://drop.sc/171827
http://drop.sc/171826
http://drop.sc/171825
http://drop.sc/171824
http://drop.sc/171823
http://drop.sc/171822
http://drop.sc/171821

The most recent is the BOTTOM of this list. Dates / days ago is in drop.sc details.

From this you can also learn I suck at ZvP.

[x5.Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Peleus

http://drop.sc/171829
http://drop.sc/171828
http://drop.sc/171827
http://drop.sc/171826
http://drop.sc/171825
http://drop.sc/171824
http://drop.sc/171823
http://drop.sc/171822
http://drop.sc/171821

The most recent is the BOTTOM of this list. Dates / days ago is in drop.sc details.

From this you can also learn I suck at ZvP.

Are these ladder games?

[Nemo]

http://drop.sc/171821

No Map Hack 100% :

• scouting
• taken by surprise by what you hide

http://drop.sc/171822

No Map Hack spotted.

http://drop.sc/171829

Same.

http://drop.sc/171828

Passed

http://drop.sc/171827

No Map Hack spotted.

http://drop.sc/171826

Passed

http://drop.sc/171825

No Map Hack spotted.

http://drop.sc/171824

Passed

http://drop.sc/171823

No Map Hack spotted.

In conclusion, he's probably not Map Hacking in PvZ at least. It would still be interesting to have some other recent PvP and PvT from him.

Quick Comments

	neon:	love your work!
	nirvAnA:

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by Nemo

No Map Hack 100% :

• scouting
• taken by surprise by what you hide

No Map Hack spotted.


Same.


Passed


No Map Hack spotted.

Passed


No Map Hack spotted.


Passed


No Map Hack spotted.

In conclusion, he's probably not Map Hacking in PvZ at least. It would still be interesting to have some other recent PvP and PvT from him.

Why would anyone turn off their maphack program only if they're playing a PvZ? I feel as if during the earliest parts of the game where it is the most critical part of the game (since you're doing your build order and building up your foundation for later in the game), you can't afford to miss workers or building timings. And if you have maphack enabled during the start of the game, I cannot think of a reason to turn it off just because he's playing a PvZ. It's either he's actually maphacking but he's really sneaky and we just couldn't find suspicious actions on all of the 9 replays, or he's not using maphack at all.

Or maybe he could be using the maphack software that Nemo posted on SC2SEA, the one that has the forcefield timer and the production tab enabled, and he has the "maphack" feature disabled.

Just my 2 cents.

[Peleus]

I understand the 'process' of going though and checking PvT and PvP replays, but considering you've got a heap of replays with no evidence for it and only a semi sus replay to accuse him it's pretty safe to call him clear unless someone comes in and accuses him again with evidence.

I can't see any reason people would turn on / off hacks for suspicious match ups.

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

[Peleus]

Yes, they are ladder games

[ProAnnn]

I played Wallace i think once where he did this 12 gate 14 gate. Too bad i played at a lan shop and can't supply a replay but i feel like i have to defend his actions. Going blind 2 gates on daybreak is actually not that uncommon since cannon rush/proxy 2 gate are super duper common on daybreak. I found that quite a number of players are favoring 2 gate openings. I'll try to find any replays of me vsing him from home.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by eehanProAnnn

I played Wallace i think once where he did this 12 gate 14 gate. Too bad i played at a lan shop and can't supply a replay but i feel like i have to defend his actions. Going blind 2 gates on daybreak is actually not that uncommon since cannon rush/proxy 2 gate are super duper common on daybreak. I found that quite a number of players are favoring 2 gate openings. I'll try to find any replays of me vsing him from home.

Hum, that's hugely interesting. Yes, try to find those please.

[Champi]

I believe wallace is a maphacker aswell, Fourby and i both played him on entombed valley on the same day and he proxied 2 gates outside both our bases at the exact same location (4 player map) without scouting us with the exact same spawns. he either guessed both times and got stupidly lucky or he is maphacking. Due to other people accusing him, im not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

http://drop.sc/173428


http://drop.sc/173429

Quick Comments

x5.NotoriouS: