[nirvAnA]

A benevolent soul has emerged from the shadows!

A big shoutout to JoFritzMD

He came up with the initiative to sponsor a series of tournaments to further the eSports community in Australia. I've asked him to extend this to the whole of SEA, which the Oceania region forms the majority, and he kindly accepted. As such, over the next 2 months, we will probably see the return of the SEACL or SEASL or even both, with approximately $1,000 in total prizes up for grabs! You can learn more about JoFrizMd by reading his TL blogs over here!

Vote for your tournament!
If we can only have one event, or if we can have two, which would you rather have, or have first?

Option 1: SEASL - http://www.sc2sea.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92

Our first major tournament based on the Code S GSL tournament system. Complete with Code S round robin groups and "Code A open tournament qualifiers" which had over 500 people try out in, the tournament saw the very best of SEA compete for over a month. The final match came down to FXOFilthy triumphing over TAEdgE, with xGking.Jazbas coming in third.

Option 2: SEALCL - http://www.sc2sea.com/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Our first major team tournament. Held over a month, this tournament allowed all "social clans" entry with 2 open qualifiers and 4 invited teams. The finals saw iTA TA defeating aLt with 3rd/4th placing between nGen and inFi. The new season we have however, might have a sightly different format so all clans can take place, with different divisions and a league style + cup to go along with it. Have to discuss with frogmite, maynarde, erasmus, bakainu and the other sc2sea admins first and it also depends on what the community wants so vote!

Option 3: Others - Have a suggestion for something else? Post it in this thread!

Quick Comments

	deL:	Exciting!
	aLtShortizz:	Very very exciting!

[TAminimat]

Seacl!!!!!!!!!

[Eddie]

SEACL

Similar format to before.

There's quite a few high level SEA individual based tournaments, but few for the top clans. Play for your team mates! More rivalries.

[iM MaFia]

how about both ? with 1k u could have prizes split up for that

[nirvAnA]

both is possible, poll is to find out if we can only have one event, or if we can have two, which would you rather have, or have first? Because they won't be held concurrently.

[deL]

100% vote SEACL it's much better entertainment and community involvement. I think the format has to be changed because the whole field of clans/teams has changed though so the 3-tier competition (maybe formed into seasons like Korean BW's ProLeague, where you change the format in the middle to mix it up?) is a good idea.

Running the 3 tiers parallel will also help with the administration of it, and it will be less likely to fail or suffer from inactivity. FA Cup I guess is kind of like English Rugby League's Challenge Cup where any division can enter in an elimination type tournament? That would be cool as well though scheduling this is going to be quite big - a lot of time commitment for players and admins. I am happy to help out at any tier for the record.

[wTlzq]

SEACL for all the clans, not just the "big" ones

[Frogmite]

I say SEACL season 2.
We are working on a project with other admins to try to bring back SEACL season 2 with different divisions for different levels (for Pro to BSG).
Coming February 2012

[SouJ]

SEACL. There are definitely more teams ready for this compared to the last time back.

[crAzerk]

SEACL would obviously allow more people to be involved, so I would say SEACL is my preferred one (I voted wrongly! Clicked the SEASL instead lol) A new format would be better, once again, to include everyone.

For which first, it really doesn't matter does it. Whichever one is easier I suppose, I would think SEASL? Since CL would require coordination of significantly more people.

If I have extra time on top of school, SEACoL , I would definitely want to help out in this too

[TCPLemminks]

SEACL, same as last season.

If the BSGCL and the PDCL continue then I see no reason to split the league into three different skill categories. Then again if they are still continuing it basically is three different skill categories.

So the main question for me is:
Do we want a High-Level CL with all the available money put into it.
Or
Do we want to have a High-Level CL AND a FA-style cup, which would reduce the prize pool for the high level CL.

Personally I'd rather have a High-Level CL only.

[iM tgun]

If the SEACL happens, I might have to ninja my way onto a SEA team for this tournament x_x;

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by tgun

If the SEACL happens, I might have to ninja my way onto a SEA team for this tournament x_x;

I formally Invite you to pretend to be a member of Xeria should a clan league go ahead

[nirvAnA]

For the SEACL, im thinking FAcup will probably have the bulk of the prizes, since its basically a SEACL season 1 with seeds and its open to every team. Team league will have prize for the top division maybe. And lower divisions win achievements.

[deL]

I don't think people who don't join teams in the first place should be able to join one just to try get cash. Nothing against guys like tgun and glade but they don't affiliate themselves with clans or contribute to clans so why should they be rewarded in clan tournaments.

Quick Comments

aLtShortizz:

How does this work? Some ppl have both teams and clans.

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

I don't think people who don't join teams in the first place should be able to join one just to try get cash. Nothing against guys like tgun and glade but they don't affiliate themselves with clans or contribute to clans so why should they be rewarded in clan tournaments.

I agree with the 'cashing in' concept but if the merely wanted to join in for the fun/community aspect of it Im all for it

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

I don't think people who don't join teams in the first place should be able to join one just to try get cash. Nothing against guys like tgun and glade but they don't affiliate themselves with clans or contribute to clans so why should they be rewarded in clan tournaments.

No koreans, no proteams, fox only, final destination.

[inFeZa]

Frogdog style!

[aLtShortizz]

Personally id prefer a SEACL. A SL might not generate as much interest as clan leagues(Rivalries and all). Also, id prefer it not to be Invited + Open. Having just a Open bracket starting with group stages with no seeding will make things more interesting! Imagine a small clan getting into the finals with sheer teamwork and a little bit of bracket luck! Just like Chadman's run into Dox cup

Oh and btw, i dunno how the match format was before but id love to see like 9 Bo1s instead of GSTL all-kill format. Imo its pretty retarded for a clan to win if they only have ONE good player, which btw can be any hired Korean these days haha.

PS: How do we differentiate between Teams and Clans? For example, Mafia is part of xGKing but in clan TA. How does that work out?

[Frogmite]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

PS: How do we differentiate between Teams and Clans? For example, Mafia is part of xGKing but in clan TA. How does that work out?

Teams have sponsors, like Tt, xGKing, arcmsi, mineski,...

We'll separate Team league and Clan league. The two leagues will have different format as teams can't align more the 3-4 players while clans can align 5 to 7 players per match.

A player playing for Team league won't be able to play for Clan league. However, teams can recruit new players from clans if a player is doing very well in the clan league.

Team League will get a bigger prize pool than clan league.

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Teams have sponsors, like Tt, xGKing, arcmsi, mineski,...

We'll separate Team league and Clan league.
A player playing for Team league won't be able to play for Clan league. However, teams can recruit new players from clans if a player is doing well in the clan league.

Team League will get a bigger prize pool than clan league.

Wouldnt that be very complicated? Also significantly reduced the prize pool. And theres only a few teams on SEA?

Btw Froggie Skype me if im being a nuisance here lol!

[deL]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Personally id prefer a SEACL. A SL might not generate as much interest as clan leagues(Rivalries and all). Also, id prefer it not to be Invited + Open. Having just a Open bracket starting with group stages with no seeding will make things more interesting! Imagine a small clan getting into the finals with sheer teamwork and a little bit of bracket luck! Just like Chadman's run into Dox cup

Oh and btw, i dunno how the match format was before but id love to see like 9 Bo1s instead of GSTL all-kill format. Imo its pretty retarded for a clan to win if they only have ONE good player, which btw can be any hired Korean these days haha.

PS: How do we differentiate between Teams and Clans? For example, Mafia is part of xGKing but in clan TA. How does that work out?

Ideally the Bo9 individual match formats are probably a better representation of a clan's strength, but it's just less exciting for players and spectators AND it's really hard to get 9 people to turn up :P

[xpaperclip]

I think a full clan league would be really great. However, I think instead of all-kill, a Proleague format (both in terms of match and league format) would be better. It rewards teams with depth and more people get to play.

I'm also extremely curious as to how the Frogmite format is intended to work! Mainly because while there are clans that tend to focus on one end or the other, there are also clans like TA which seem to span the entire spectrum.

[Frogmite]

Originally Posted by xpaperclip

I think a full clan league would be really great. However, I think instead of all-kill, a Proleague format (both in terms of match and league format) would be better. It rewards teams with depth and more people get to play.

I'm also extremely curious as to how the Frogmite format is intended to work! Mainly because while there are clans that tend to focus on one end or the other, there are also clans like TA which seem to span the entire spectrum.

There wil be different divisions (a bit like soccer), so a clan like TA will be able to align different teams on different divisions. And actually we have two FaDe teams for BSGCL and it's working perfectly fine .

If the format is liked by the majority i will make a thread to explain it more in details.

[aLtMrFool]

Clanless MrFool is confused :P

[NvJazBas]

Can't we do both ?T_T I always waited for both SEASL and SEACL #2.

and also, for SEACL, I don't think xGKing or Arcmsi should be able to participate but is able to participate as their clans as xGKing and MSI are pro teams not clans.

Just my opinion!

Quick Comments

	aLtShortizz:	Yeah that would make things mcuh easier.
	dippa:	hear hear

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Can't we do both ?T_T I always waited for both SEASL and SEACL #2.

and also, for SEACL, I don't think xGKing or Arcmsi should be able to participate but is able to participate as their clans as xGKing and MSI are pro teams not clans.

Just my opinion!

You're competing in the TCL for Xeria :P

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

You're competing in the TCL for Xeria :P

Yea true but I think for SEA, pro and clan is defined abit more clearer. I dunno its just my opinion lol as much as I love representing xeria gaming, I also want to see the SEA scene where TA's new members such as Light and Mafia represent TA in a new way, also me representing Infi and iaguz of course, aLt! Just my opinion hehe

[nirvAnA]

gonna be too complicated if you separate teams and clans.

it will be up to the player whether they want to represent their team or clan, of course the player is obligated to represent his sponsored team if his team wants representation. but as far as i know SQLT is too small, so is tT and immunity who have 1 player each. aMSI will probably not want to enter themselves but instead as two teams of TA. xgking will be too small unless they recruit more members. dont see any other problems with the other teams!

[Frogmite]

Actually i believe that making an additional pro-team league will help the SEA community to grow.

Why?

If we make competitions for pro-team, then there will be a better coverage for that teams (through live streams) and that's exactly what sponsors are after (advertisement). If there is no events that the team can participate, then the sponsors will stop sponsoring the teams.

So yeah, there is maybe only 5 pro-teams today in SEA, but i believe we need to invest on those teams. By making more competitions in SEA for those teams we'll get better chances that the teams will grow, or other teams will emerge. Because there will be interest for sponsors. What will the sponsor will say if they see their players going to play a clan league with their clans instead of playing for the team.

It's must my own opinion and maybe i don't really know what is best for SEA as i am coming from france but i truly believe that it's the way we must go if we want to promote SC2 in SEA.

By the way, we'll make the format that the community prefers so no worries

[deL]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Actually i believe that making an additional pro-team league will help the SEA community to grow.

Why?

If we make competitions for pro-team, then there will be a better coverage for that teams (through live streams) and that's exactly what sponsors are after (advertisement). If there is no events that the team can participate, then the sponsors will stop sponsoring the teams.

So yeah, there is maybe only 5 pro-teams today in SEA, but i believe we need to invest on those teams. By making more competitions in SEA for those teams we'll get better chances that the teams will grow, or other teams will emerge. Because there will be interest for sponsors. What will the sponsor will say if they see their players going to play a clan league with their clans instead of playing for the team.

It's must my own opinion and maybe i don't really know what is best for SEA as i am coming from france but i truly believe that it's the way we must go if we want to promote SC2 in SEA.

By the way, we'll make the format that the community prefers so no worries

It could do more damage than good if you make the teams require a minimum of 5 players or whatever. First of all there's not really enough talent to go around forever so some teams will be left with some average players. Next not all teams/sposnors can support having so many players on the team - a lot prefer 1-2 RTS players.

If we do something team centric we should look at alternative formats such as those for 2-player teams (some WC3 tourneys used it) imo.

[Frogmite]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

It could do more damage than good if you make the teams require a minimum of 5 players or whatever. First of all there's not really enough talent to go around forever so some teams will be left with some average players. Next not all teams/sposnors can support having so many players on the team - a lot prefer 1-2 RTS players.

If we do something team centric we should look at alternative formats such as those for 2-player teams (some WC3 tourneys used it) imo.

Actually i was thinking of a BO5 KOTH for pro league so 3 players per team per match.

[dippa]

Players should elect before the beginning of the season who they want to represent. Easiest way of dealing with the issue.

The idea of creating multiple tiers also has merit; the weekly results will be a bit of a blowout to the major names otherwise.

Conversely, not including everyone in the same group means some divisions might actually be a bit short.

However this goes, I think it'll be a good idea to make the format extend as far as possible, and also use it as a chance to rotate casters/streamers so everybody gets a chance at the spotlight. This is the kind of thing that EVERYBODY in SEA should participate in, and it's something that could serve as good bait to get other communities in SEA to watch.

[iM MaFia]

I agree with JazBas, pro teams and clans are different, and there aren't enough pro teams in the scene and most of them don't really have enough players. I think that they should be playing for their clans as it seems much more reasonable why we have clans in SEA.

[ToR.Arnor]

Froggy Hit the nail on the head

The Tawain server does something similiar the 'TCL' is for amateur ranked teams/clan while the TeSL is for their major pro teams (e.g. GBears aka Sen's Team, TT Apollos aka Softballs team) the TeSL usually only has 5-6 teams competing in the main season, TeSL is huge in Tawain and its only into I believe its 3rd season?

Sponsors need to see a ROI and its events like this that make it so much easier for teams to justify the $$$ they receive

[Snx.FigJig]

Don't worry, I'll allow tgun and glade to be with us...just this once.

[TCPLemminks]

From what I understand, if we have a league solely for the 5 Pro Teams in SEA, what about the clans who want to participate in a, say, Masters+ level CL (assuming that the BSG and PD are the other two skill levels). If we do include a Pro Team league and a Masters+ CL and a Open CL (call it the Lemminks Open, just a thought) prize money would have to be split between the three, the severity of which would depend on how much our lovely sponsor is willing to donate.

If a Pro Team league is implemented, then should players in Pro League be allowed to represent their respective clans as well?

Now in terms of the format, I agree with Shortizz and the others that BO9 Individual matches would be better than the GSL all-kill format as it allows for more participation. Perhaps we could have it like the TSL and have each individual match be worth points, with an "ace" match as well (this could also be implemented for all CLs).

Finally for the Prizes I agree that the BSG and the PD should not be cash. However, since some people don't really care for achievements, something else should be included in the prize pool, like an hour's free coaching.

Quick Comments

Benji:

I think the intention is for the middle tier to be for Masters/GMs

[NDG.Stitch]

SEASL!!!!
I'd love to see individuals over teams. Because there are some teams that are just really strong compared to others...

By the way Nirv, I already have a SEASL Season 2 Logo ready for you. So when you find out what it's gonna be just ask me for the logo.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

send me on skype!!!!!

[Zealo]

i would rather see a clan league, either to play in (frogmite version) or watch (both versions)

[ROOTPetraeus]

SC2 referendum.

[TAEdgE]

I'm shit now so SEASL because i would (i assume) have a seed.

I love SEACL though, both formats seem cool. Actaully i wish i voted for SEACL n_n

[Benji]

I'd love a format that allows for Pro Teams to have the spotlight but also give the non pro players a go, to give the up and coming players a go, which is why I voted for the 3rd option.

At this point in SEA, we have quite a few pro teams (arcMSI, xG, SQLTt, Flash, Mski, MiTH, and a few single players aligned to teams like PiG, tgun etc) and looking at the teams and putting them all in a comp, which team would you bet on? I couldn't pick which team would win as the skill is split quite well between the teams at the moment. I think a league focusing on these teams will not only encourage teams to pick up players or even enter the scene (due to the exposure). Focusing on these players would be exciting, and I like dels idea of a Bo5 KOTH format (requires only 3 players), could even buffer out the games to Bo3 to have more games. Alternatively a format like EGMC could work, but I know people dont like 2v2's.

Then you have a tier down, with clans like TA, InFI, aLt etc where you have the up and coming players playing. Players that up until now are overshadowed by the sponsored powerhouses of their clans. For example a player in TA wouldn't get played if sponsored players can play in the clan league (as they have something like 7 or 8 sponsored players) but if the sponsored players are in the Pro league, they get a shot at making a name for themselves and proving their skill. Also I think with sponsored players playing in a clan league, it would be quite 1 sided.

Finally a BSGP level clan league for funsies :P Really can't put a prize on it as you want to encourage players to be moving upwards, but BSG clan leagues have been from what I understand successful, so just keep going with the good thing :P
The leagues need to focus on what we want to grow, and in my opinion, we need to grow the professional aspect of the scene to really make something happen in SEA.

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	The exact reasons I voted for option 3 :)
	Maynarde:	Good call
	Zealo:	totally agree (except we need more 2v2, not less)

[Blitz]

very excited for this and hopefully we get to see both tournaments happen

[nGenLight]

can i playyyyyyyyyyyyy plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just for the luilzzzzzzzzzzzz ahahahahh o shsitt im fsdfsdzx

[SnuCtups]

SEASL - Winner gets a Code A slot in GSL (make it happen )
or
SEACL - Winning team gets to play in GSTL (also make it happen )

[Fate]

I feel very strongly for Frogmite's idea of forming sc2 team leagues for at least 3 different divisions. It should work roughly the same as soccer/sport leagues.

Summary:
- I feel it should have a long duration, with 1 season lasting at least 6 months to 9 months
- Teams can add and remove players from their teams, to allow for possible player trades, recruitment. Maybe impose a closed transfer window near the final stretch of the season for fairness.
- A big scale, multi divisional league like this seems really really exciting. And I feel we should at the very least attempt it if everyone starts to feel excited about this.


Pros:
- Everyone in the community can join a league team and participate, from bronze to grandmaster.
- Stimulates growth for our local clans and teams, as anyone who hears of this competition and who is eager to participate will want to sign up for a team of their skill level. This might make it easier for teams to recruit new members.
- Increased constant advertising exposure for the competition's sponsors. As a league that is casted/televised weekly or bi weekly means the sponsors gets constant advertising exposure for almost the whole of 6 months to 9 months throughout the year.
- Incentive for teams to recruit or grow their talent pool within their own teams. Stronger players in their teams = promotion into higher leagues, better fame, more prize money etc.
- This kind of league system has been proven effective in the sports world, who knows? If we run it so well that our leagues get international attention. International organisations like GomTV or IPL might wanna adopt this whole year season league system for the professional teams. The idea of seeing teams like Slayers, IM fighting it out with teams like EG, liquid every weekend seems very very enticing for the viewers. And its easier to attract bigger sponsor advertising contracts since we will expose their brand to a big group of viewers every weekend, for the majority of the whole year.

Possible Cons:
- Major administration, management issues. Running a weekly league that has hundreds of players, maybe 30 teams playing every weekend/week would seem tough if we don't have enough people to help out with the administration.
- Possible dropouts, walkovers: Teams that aren't doing well or don't have enough active players might keep having walkovers and withdraw towards the middle or end of seasons if they don't see the value of continued participation since they have a very low chance of winning/promotion, or possible relegation into a lower league.
- If teams do continous walkovers / withdraw from leagues, it will generate confusion and scheduling mishaps.
- Volunteers from the community would be much needed, we would need volunteers from almost every caster, members from all involved teams/clans to make running such a huge long term event possible.

[nirvAnA]

In response to benji's "pro teams only tier1" post

l agree there should be at least 3 leagues of separation but not with the "pro league teams only" because many of the top clans are just as good as the sponsored pros and if its just the pros its gonna be spread way tooo thin, not enough players per team, no back ups in case of no shows, etc.

xG - 3 players
SQLTt - 4 players
Flash - 2 players
Tt - 1 player
immunity - 1 player
Mski - 2 really good players
MiTH - 1 really good players

At the same time it will be showcasing not really top players (the others from misk/mith) and needlessly exclude alot of players who can compete with them for e.g iceiceice, targa, yoon, pokerface, timber, han, strafe, rev, muse won't be able to play in the league.

Lastly, theres a big skill gap between benji's "tier2" with infi ta alt and bsg which is better filled with P/D clans so these up and coming players have a better chance to develop and compete. So IMO this idea is something to think about for the future when there are enough players/teams and it is more developed. For now I'd like the divisions to look something like this and it will probably be limited to 10 teams per division so its easy to manage.

---

My thoughts on how SEACL #2 should be

---

Its very close to frogmite's OP im basically just suggesting and additional FA Cup GSTL style to run along side it.

Tier 1:
xG + some nGen
SQLT
inFi
aLt
Mski
TA
MiTH
SPR

+ Maybe some others like EVE, Gview, lGd, IRL i'm not too sure.

---

Tier 2: (PDCL league clans)
Imperial-Winter Nights
Brothers til Death
Ascension Gaming
Terror Australis PD
FaDe PD
Team VB
TCP
Crux
ToR PD

---

Tier 3: (BSG league clans)
FaDe A
Kelvins Army
The Clanless
FaDe B
Time of Rising BSG
Team Carbon Pressure
Terror Australis BSG
Brothers Till Death
VB
QED

---

• Big clans like TA, FaDe and ToR can be represented in several leagues so all their members have a chance to play.
• The league format will be something like 5-7 1v1 matches(each a best of 3) vs another clan weekly to encourage clan participation/activity.
• There will be a side cup (FA cup style) tournament where everyone can enter which will have the bulk of the prize pool.

So for instance round 1 matches will look something like this where the top teams are seeded and don't play each other till later rounds. This will basically be the SEACL Season 2 GSTL all kill format and every team would have had the chance to participate in it.

xG vs Imperial-Winter Nights
SQLT vs Brothers til Death
Ascension Gaming vs Time of Rising BSG
Terror Australis PD vs FaDe B

[zendex]

SEASL 2 please! This time, don't ban mOOnGLaDe!

[nirvAnA]

SEACL was by far the most popular choice with voters and hence it will be our first major tournament of 2012. This thread will be where you can discuss the format.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2890

[deL]

Moved to new thread :3