SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

**nirvAnA** · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 11:56 AM

This feedback thread is for the SEA SL.

Do not talk about the CODE S selection process, that will be handled in due course in another feedback thread when the season is over. Right now lets spend our efforts focusing on how to run things best from this point foward.

I want to the run the tournament the best i can and am open to well thought out feedback and suggestions.
E.g Benjis suggestion to run one tourney earlier for ANZ, i realised my mistake and changed the timing to make one tourney earlier instantly.

Please feedback constructively like below.

Two main issues:

SEA SL Qualifications C & D.

Problem: 15%-20% no-shows.

Suggested solution: Im planning on voiding all current signups for C&D and making a new thread. One for C, one for D. This sign up thread will open one day before the tournament starts. Will this be too confusing for people? Will they be aware of the change? Just leave it as it is with the noshows? Apply a check in system? How? I expect the no shows to be more because its 1 week instead of 2 days from registration to playing and more people are gonna forget about it.

Other issues: Top 16 Seeding, Bo3 format etc, discuss what can be improved and keep in mind the logistics required to implement the solutions.

For the top 16 seeding elaboration-

+ Show +

Code S Group Stage

Potential Problem: How do we seed the groups accurately with the top 12 "Code S" players?

Suggested solution: Votes? / Random draw on stream? The only thing im certain of now is Code A winners should be the #4 seed in all the groups as they are coming from "Code A" into "Code S". Right now im leaning towards a random draw for the top 12 like how most competitions do it with some pontential "groups of death" being possible but thats inherent with the random draw process and everyone in the top 12 is a strong player. Is the bo1 format still ok?

Potential Problem: Timing considerations. If Code S group matches start at 7pm SGT its 10pm for Sydney midnight for NZ

Suggested solution: Make it 5pm SGT as the singporeans qualified are students who are not working. But how about thailand? What will be a suitable time? Worse case scenario is to cast from replays but i dont want it to come to that.

Any other feedback related to the running of the tournament from this point foward - be it casters, tournament date etc feel free to feedback but do it constructively

zendex · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 12:11 PM

SEA SL Qualifications C & D

Do not void the current signups. This might upset players who will not be informed.

What SEASL (and other SC2SEA tournaments) needs is a check-in system. Require players to check-in one hour before the tournament to confirm their slot. If player fails to check-in, he gets removed from the bracket.

Please clarify on what you meant with "Top 16 Seeding".

Bo3 format to semis. Bo5 Finals.

Code S Group Stage

Randomly seed the invited Code S players. The Code A players are randomly scattered across the groups. The random draw MUST be streamed if you're really concerned about credibility.

As for the Round Robin format for each group, can we have MST style?

Match 1: Player A vs Player B
Match 2: Player C vs Player D
Match 3: Winner of 1 vs Winner of 2 -> winner of this match advances Ro8
Match 4: Loser of 1 vs Loser of 2
Match 5: Loser of 3 vs Winner of 4 -> winner of this match advances to Ro8

Through MST format, ties are impossible.

Benji · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 12:19 PM

7pm Syd/4pm SG start for Bracket C

Punish timewasters (There is no reason at all that a Bo1 tourney should take 5 hours).

To cut down on no shows, simply remove people from brackets C and D that did not show to A and B. This will be more a future fix than anything as players next time will post if they can't make it, or eliminate their chance at the entire tournament.

Someone get GSL Crossfire uploaded, current version does not allow specs, and until this is fixed it should be removed from the map pool. If game 3 in a Bo3 cannot be watched by casters, it detracts from the stream which is what the tournament is really designed for, to entertain. IMO, just remove Crossfire alltogether and replace it with iCCup Testbug (Crossfire is so Protoss bias its unbelievable).

Seeds for code S should be sorted by a neutral panel ie: Casters and/or unclanned community members. Casters understand who is good and who is not as they watch more SEA games than anyone else, unclanned community members requires the person to be in the know with who is good and who is not which can be difficult. 4 or 5 people on the panel from various countries and social groups will eliminate any bias.

NvPinder · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 12:38 PM

You could work on some sort of check-in system for the no shows maybe? im not sure of the logistics of that tho.

But yeah, agreeing with definitely dont void the alrdy taken signups, some people dont check the community signups very often and could be VERY pissed if they thought they were signed up and weren't.

as for seeding for the code S groups, it's pretty difficult and no matter what u do people are gonna get hit in the nuts with the 'group of death', but i think thats easily avoidable next season by just basing it on past season's results.

I definitely agree with bo3 rounds starting at Ro16 tho, there's more than 8 capable players in the brackets that i feel could beat anyone on the server in one off games 10% of the time.

Also - get crossfire working if it's gona be in the map pool :P

**nirvAnA** · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 12:49 PM

i like the MST format, it looks cleaner, 5 matches are played regardless and there are no tie posibilities

deL · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 2:18 PM

zendex not sure I understand the point of random seeds.

zendex · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deL

zendex not sure I understand the point of random seeds.

What I mean is the 12 invited Code S players gets seeded across the 4 groups of Ro16 according to their seed #.

Here's a sample:

Group A:
1. Jazbas - #1 seed
2. YYJ - #2 seed
3. Kowi - #3 seed
4. Fah - Code A Bracket A winner

Group B:
1. iceiceice - #1 seed
2. filthy - #2 seed
3. Jesse - #3 seed
4. iaguz - Code A Bracket B winner

Group C:
1. RedArchon - #1 seed
2. Revenant #2 seed
3. EdgE - #3 seed
4. Code A Bracket C winner

Group D:
1. OxygeN - #1 seed
2. AaroN - #2 seed
3. Roz - #3 seed
4. Code A Bracket D winner

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 2:52 PM

Regarding MST matches:
So what I understand instead of 2 Rof16 matches to see who gets in Ro8 (and the chance a good player gets knocked out), it will be 5 MST matches. I like it, it will add depth to the tournament and give those with pre-tournament jitters a chance to recover.

Logistically, we just need more time for streams but if we do it, I believe it will be far more entertaining. Lets do it

Regarding Code S picking:
I do not view this as a problem beyond the first season. Very neatly, the 8 that did not make it for Rof8, will fight Up-Down matches. The losing 4 will be put back in next season's Code A, and the current season of Code A top 4 will move up.

There, very neat way to cycle the players and plenty of opportunity for those knocked into Code A to prove themselves otherwise. They would have to lose 3 straight Code S matches to get knocked out.

TL

R Dont worry about Code S seeding. It is the first season. Those that are really good will float to the top within 2-3 seasons. Lets think longer term.

Regarding this season's Code S seeding
Stream the tournament's Challonge page, hit "shuffle", done. First season will be pure luck, subsequent seasons can be based on results.

My 2(,000,000) cents

deL · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDPhoenix

Regarding this season's Code S seeding
Stream the tournament's Challonge page, hit "shuffle", done. First season will be pure luck, subsequent seasons can be based on results.

But it's completely unnecessary to do this. Why rely on luck when you can seed the top players who deserve to be rewarded for their efforts and will provide competitive and entertaining games?

Underdogs worthy of upsets will still pull them, but seeding will give the best chance to make the tournament as entertaining as possible and wanting people to come back for more.

**inFeZa** · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 3:56 PM

Hey nirvana, i have a question:
Is there going to be either more qualifiers later down the track? and some up/down matches like things? so people who missed out can have another chance to get into code S?

Also, how much is the code S players going to rotate, ie, if they're not performing well (if code S isn't just a tournament) and how will they be punished, or should they have a thing where they have to fight for their place.

I kinda dont make sense right now so ask me if u dont understand anything.

tldr : rotating underperforming players in code S? give more people a chance to get into code S

Starcraftmazter · Thu, 17th-Mar-2011, 8:05 PM

Can matches start not earlier than 7pm Sydney time? 6pm is a bit close for people working in the city (I'm not usually home by 6).

Also for no shows...many tournaments implement a check in system, allow unlimited sign ups, and people get picked in order of sign up according to who is checked in, or something like that.

Someone mentioned round robin, that'd be sweet.

**nirvAnA** · Fri, 18th-Mar-2011, 10:34 PM

Alright so here are the changes that are going to be made so far.

1) Signups will stay as they are but a checkin system which Veteris is working on will be implemented. Check-ins will be open the day before the tournament starts. Players who do not check in would be treated as players who forgot about the tourney and their names wont be in the bracket. This is to prevent no shows. The bracket will be generated 30 mins before the start of the tournament so the check in time ends then.

2) Code S will follow the MST format so there are no tiebreaks.
Groups will be random drawn for the Top 12 code S players and this will be streamed live on the day of the code A finals next Friday.
Next season the top 8 players who qualified for the playoffs will be seeded as #1 and #2 in their groups.

3) The time for Bracket C next week has been moved back 1 hour. It starts at 4pm sgt or 7pm sydney to better suit the Anz region.

4) Code A this season will be streamed by a Established+Amatuer caster.

Streamers for next week: 7pm AU time slot: deL + unstable
7pm SGT time slot: kelly + sixth

Next seasons Code A will only be streamed by established casters.
If you want to cast the games you have to practise get more exposure by casting our small tournaments like BSGs/GPDs, etc.

5) crossfire has been removed from the map pool

Any more suggestions to improve the tourney are welcome.

Douchebag · Fri, 18th-Mar-2011, 10:50 PM

Problem: 15%-20% no-shows - all people entered in the tournament are registered with the site. perhaps the best way, if its not too difficult, is to send out emails to all the players as reminders & updates. tell them to check their emails regularly. maybe u could get them to re-register their attendance through the email?

you know what would be awesome & would really work? if you ran the tournament in the same fashion as the world cup point system (soccer world cup) & then the player with the most points at the end wins. there would be more matches & timing could be worked out better. this system would mean everyone plays everyone 2-3 times or even 1 time. if u win u get 3 points lose -3points games over 20mins maybe reduced to +1/-1 point. i duno =D

or if u have BO3 if u win 2-0 u get 3points, if u win 2-1 u get 2 points

nGenWild · Sat, 19th-Mar-2011, 5:56 AM

You could ban no-show ppl for nxt 3tournaments or something then they might realise how gay it is to sign up and just not show up in actual date.
And personally I don't really care about no-show, but don't ever get it replaced by someone else.
This is most stupid way how some tournaments went earlier.
No register = No play , obviously they don't care about the tournament
Just pisses me off how they ninja in.

And also about the seed in code A, I think in Bo1 series, they can lose so easily especially in mirror match so it doesn't really surprise me that master/azz got knocked out early in the bracket.
Not saying that whole thing should be Bo3, or it would take too long to finish.
Just saying that theres nothing wrong about giving seeds to known players.

And about Bracket C moving back 1hr.. that would be so stupid for ppl who are living in NZ. It's during weekdays.. I mean theres uni/school/work for ppl next day. I don't wanna sleep after 12am like in weekends..
Im pretty sure it effects most of NZer.
If anything changes about time, should b 1hr earlier -,-

This is my personaly thoughts about code S.. but I think Code S should have some more people in it. Looking at the current player list, it's most likely them playing themselves again in next season. We wouldn't get much chance to see new faces in Code S.
Tbh, u shud get like at least 2ppl to qualify from each bracket.
Im pretty sure it's not that hard to fill Code S with 32ppl.
I mean I thought bracket A was OK for me, worried me that just there were lot of Ts in my part of bracket and yeh.. lost to Terran haha. but personally I think TvT is 50 50 unless theres huge difference in skill level. So only person that worried me was Pinder. Heres my point. Inviting only 12ppl into code S by certain ppl's votes, player like Pinder gets to play in code A. I asked some ppl why they didn't vote pinder there, and what they said was "I never saw him play". I mean.. that's so stupid reason.. from what I've seen, pinder is one of best P that I knw. Voting was fine, but should extend bit more on invite list, and get some more qualifiers from code A would be nice. I reckon there are lots of good players out there now to compete with toptop players.
I know this would be hard to b done in this season but should really consider for next season.

Longest post i've ever made

pjw · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 12:10 AM

Could you not refer to the divisions as Code A and Code S. As much fun as dressing up and pretending to be a korean is, for clarity's sake...Division 1, Division 2...Code A..Code B..

**kellyMILKIES** · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjw

Could you not refer to the divisions as Code A and Code S. As much fun as dressing up and pretending to be a korean is, for clarity's sake...Division 1, Division 2...Code A..Code B..

What's wrong with using Code A and Code S?
It's perfectly fine. It's like how sc2sea is like Team Liquid cause we love team liquid.
We love GSL so we want to run an SEA tournament like GSL.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

Anyway Bryan can we ffs not put first map as xelnaga for all the rounds??
I casted 183892 Xel Naga games last week.
And playing on Xel Naga all the time is not very good. Reason elaborated in MSN chat.

Benji · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyMILKIES

What's wrong with using Code A and Code S?
It's perfectly fine. It's like how sc2sea is like Team Liquid cause we love team liquid.
We love GSL so we want to run an SEA tournament like GSL.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

Anyway Bryan can we ffs not put first map as xelnaga for all the rounds??
I casted 183892 Xel Naga games last week.
And playing on Xel Naga all the time is not very good. Reason elaborated in MSN chat.

It depends on the aim. For castability Xel'Naga does get boring yes, but as far as balance goes, especially in Bo1, having the most fair map as the only map is the only choice you have. Even if you pick Meta as an alternate map, a Zerg can get close spawns with a Terran and could lose to a player they are better than due to map inbalance, then all of a sudden you have to ask 'Did the best player really win?'

**PiG** · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

It depends on the aim. For castability Xel'Naga does get boring yes, but as far as balance goes, especially in Bo1, having the most fair map as the only map is the only choice you have. Even if you pick Meta as an alternate map, a Zerg can get close spawns with a Terran and could lose to a player they are better than due to map inbalance, then all of a sudden you have to ask 'Did the best player really win?'

maybe alternate with modified shattered and metalopalis. The TSL ones with no close spawns. Woulda add variety without compromising balance issues

**nirvAnA** · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 11:11 AM

the whole point from the sponsor was to have a SEA version of gsl!

and because pple are already used to it from following gsl, i think its clearer to use the code a/s names then say division a/b

pjw · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

the whole point from the sponsor was to have a SEA version of gsl!

and because pple are already used to it from following gsl, i think its clearer to use the code a/s names then say division a/b

I can understand it from a sponsors point of view but not everyone watches gsl!. Telling someone who hasn't watched gsl that x player is in code s and x player is in code a, 99% of the time people will believe code A is the top ranked division.

Regardless it's an incredibly minor thing and the SEA SL is already an amazing tournament, just try to keep in mind that we don't need to be exactly like the GSL..

Jade Raven · Wed, 23rd-Mar-2011, 4:34 PM

Proper adherence to the optimum acronym forms should be observed. Just look at the NASL doesn't work at all.

It should definitely be called the CSL...

mGMUSE · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 12:58 PM

Please alternate maps. Xel Naga is really boring and even slightly imbalanced imo. Every map is slightly imbalanced in their own way though so it's all fair in the end.

**PiG** · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 3:28 PM

oh can we just upload them or smthn?

nGenWild · Mon, 21st-Mar-2011, 3:38 PM

Question. how is that balanced if there r no close spawn?
Even your Z whine king "Idra" said, game is determined in as soon as game starts in shattered temple. 33% of T winning, 33% of Z winning, 33% of being GG.
I'm not so sure if there r much difference in meta. If so, harder for Terran to win.
So just stick with XNC for qualifier plz unless u gonna throw steppes into map pool

I don't see any favored maps in ladder pool atm except delta/scrap. This is looking at tvz only. And mayb backwater
But maps like slag pit/meta/shattered temple really determine on pure luck of spawn. You win from spawn position by at least 70%.
XNC is fine, some Ts says its sh1t for T but mayb probably cos previous ladder maps were way tooooo good for Terran.

I'm not even bothering to go onto Protoss.

WakingLife · Wed, 23rd-Mar-2011, 4:41 PM

im liking this check in system, but it should have a count down timer or notification to when the last check ins are available

**Dox** · Wed, 23rd-Mar-2011, 11:36 PM

Check in system was great.
Playing/casting Xel'Naga Caverns as the first map round after round was painful.
Had a blast commentating the Group C bracket, thanks for the opportunity.

NvPinder · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 4:53 AM

Not sure how you're actually planning to do the Up/Down matches this season, but here's what imo would be a good way:

Since code S is MST format, there's going to be a clear 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in each group.
1st wins 2 games straight, 2nd wins-loses-wins (or loses-wins-wins), 3rd loses-wins-loses(or wins-loses-loses) and 4th loses 2 games straight.

1st two in group obviously advance to quarter finals, 3rd in group goes to 'up and down' matches, and 4th in group goes back to the qualifiers for Code S like everyone else.

This leaves 8 open spots in code S, the winner of each qualifier next month gets placed directly into code S, whilst the runner up of each qualifier plays the '3rd in group' in the 'up and down' matches.

Only problem i can see with this way is that the people who came fourth in their group might miss one or two of the qualifiers, but either way i think there should be more than 4 spots for the rest of the public to fight over.

NvJazBas · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 7:37 AM

Personally, I don't like the way the group stage was set out.. totally randomly distributed group stage is not the best way to go in my opinion. I'm not sure of a specific way but I'm sure there is a way to select group randomly, according to seed place and also the race distribution.

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 10:24 AM

Voted Bo3. Anything in Bo1 can't be taken seriously really.

Benji · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Voted Bo3. Anything in Bo1 can't be taken seriously really.

So GSL Code S Ro32 and Dreamhack group stages cannot be taken seriously?

Xeen · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

So GSL Code S Ro32 and Dreamhack group stages cannot be taken seriously?

Or the entire OSL/MSLs, which have run for a good 10 years+ in BW?

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

So GSL Code S Ro32 and Dreamhack group stages cannot be taken seriously?

Well yeah. How many times have we seen the superior player eliminated early in a tournament because the lesser player exploited a map advantage or used some sort of all-in close-spawn Metalopolis build? There's no arguing that a best of three is guaranteed to produce the better player. Basing everything around a single game is just too volatile.

Benji · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Well yeah. How many times have we seen the superior player eliminated early in a tournament because the lesser player exploited a map advantage or used some sort of all-in close-spawn Metalopolis build? There's no arguing that a best of three is guaranteed to produce the better player. Basing everything around a single game is just too volatile.

What about players in more eastern states that will be forced to play more games later into the night? Fatigue and such do factor in which is something that does not affect players in some of the asian countries due to the timezones. I know that after around 11pm, my ability to play the game is dimished. Jazbas for example will begin play at 10pm his time, a 4 hour tourney will push his games to 2am, at which point I guarantee the Singaporians will have a fatigue advantage over him.

Watchability is also dimished, Bo3's take ages and are less exciting than Bo1's where you get constant change of playstyles and matchups.

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

What about players in more eastern states that will be forced to play more games later into the night? Fatigue and such do factor in which is something that does not affect players in some of the asian countries due to the timezones. I know that after around 11pm, my ability to play the game is dimished. Jazbas for example will begin play at 10pm his time, a 4 hour tourney will push his games to 2am, at which point I guarantee the Singaporians will have a fatigue advantage over him.

A slight tangent here, but this is one significant reason why the western world is so far behind the Korean scene. Have a nap or something before the event if this is truly a legitimate concern. People all over the world participate in global tournaments and timezones are just one small factor you need to take into consideration if you want to make it anywhere. Fatigue is just one more aspect of the game that a good player needs to manage.

Quote:

Watchability is also dimished, Bo3's take ages and are less exciting than Bo1's where you get constant change of playstyles and matchups.

Come on now, there's nothing more exciting than an ace match! Bo3's are only boring when there's a noticable skill disparity between both players. Nothing ruins an event more than seeing a favourite cheesed out early when they clearly had the ability to be in the grand final.

Benji · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 12:23 PM

I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with you. Watching an action packed 2 hour cast is much more enjoyable than spending my entire night watching a single group stage.

I will tune in if its Bo1, I will only watch games with nGen players if its Bo3.

deL · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji

I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with you.

At least you admit that you are wrong.

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deL

Dox. Koreans have nothing to do but play the game and they get paid for it - you can't expect anywhere near the same flexibility for people who often have a job + uni on top of their gaming. Especially on SEA.

Of course, but that wasn't always the case. I mean hell, some of the TSL guys only just started receiving salaries this month! It all starts somewhere, and it seems like the general attitude from the western world is that want to jump straight from A to Z without slogging through the rest of the alphabet to get there. Remember Artosis? Quitting his job every year so he could train for WCG! That's dedication.

(Andy is the obvious exception here. He put in the effort and made the sacrifices to get where he is.)

I guess all I'm trying to say is that despite lots of SEA gamers WANTING big things to happen, it's quite clear that the level of commitment isn't there when small things like staying up late somehow become an issue. Until people are ready to step up, it's going to remain an evening hobby and nothing more.

EDIT: This avatar changing after every 5th post is seriously starting to give me an identity crisis.

nGenWild · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 1:21 PM

I'm with benji about bo1 stuff.
I think this format is copied off from MSL from bw.
Theres 2 opportunities to go thru the group stage.
So it's pretty fair that ur fav player doesnt get knocked out straight away after losing one game.
And im not too sure what you guys mean by "superior player"
Targa/iagus is pretty new for everyone but others are all notable players.
According to ppl's comments, ice/filthy may be alittle better than others, but not by far.
They get two chances of going pass thru this group stage.
If they lose both chances, then it just shows they aren't that much better over other players.
Ofc you can get cheesed and etc but that's part of the game.
I think Bo1 is good enuf orelse it will take forever.
But thats just my opinion

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nGenWild

And im not too sure what you guys mean by "superior player"

We were referring to GSL and other big leagues.

Quote:

iagus is pretty new for everyone but others are all notable players.

Wha? Iaguz has been a top contender since the beta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deL

Dox I don't think the problem is commitment but fairness.

Yeah, that's why I said I was on a bit of a tangent. Sorry! Totally went off-topic there.

deL · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 1:29 PM

Dox I don't think the problem is commitment but fairness.

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 2:28 PM

*twists this conversation into some abstract concept of cars, fuel and pizza*

My thoughts? Code S should not be completed in a single week. People want more matches, casters want a decent and constant workload (not cast 1 week then nothing for the next 2) and everyone wants something to watch long term.

The solution, as usual, is rather simple. Instead of doing it over 1 week, do it over 4.

Week 1, Day 1: Match 1 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 2: Match 2 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 3: Match 3 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)

Week 2, Day 1: Match 4 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 2: Match 5 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 3: Up/Down Matches x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3) - to eliminate 4 players down to Code A

Week 3, Day 1: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 3, Day 2: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)

Week 4, Day 1: SemiFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 4, Day 2: GrandFinals x 1 (1 x Bo7)

Everyone gets their matches. You can get 3 sets of casters for 1 day/week (Manageable workload, the casters that can take more can do more than 1 day) and viewers will get the awesome tournament level games they wish for.

Similarly, Code A should run concurrent with this. I suggest Wed-Thurs for Code A (also roughly 4 x Bo3 or a series of Bo1 as it is right now), Fri-Sun for Code S. It'll give people something to watch most nights and give our casters things to plan around and practice.

Unstable · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDPhoenix

*twists this conversation into some abstract concept of cars, fuel and pizza*

My thoughts? Code S should not be completed in a single week. People want more matches, casters want a decent and constant workload (not cast 1 week then nothing for the next 2) and everyone wants something to watch long term.

The solution, as usual, is rather simple. Instead of doing it over 1 week, do it over 4.

Week 1, Day 1: Match 1 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 2: Match 2 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 3: Match 3 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)

Week 2, Day 1: Match 4 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 2: Match 5 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 3: Up/Down Matches x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3) - to eliminate 4 players down to Code A

Week 3, Day 1: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 3, Day 2: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)

Week 4, Day 1: SemiFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 4, Day 2: GrandFinals x 1 (1 x Bo7)

Everyone gets their matches. You can get 3 sets of casters for 1 day/week (Manageable workload, the casters that can take more can do more than 1 day) and viewers will get the awesome tournament level games they wish for.

Similarly, Code A should run concurrent with this. I suggest Wed-Thurs for Code A (also roughly 4 x Bo3 or a series of Bo1 as it is right now), Fri-Sun for Code S. It'll give people something to watch most nights and give our casters things to plan around and practice.

^^^^^ THIS!

I cant explain how important a format like this will be, so im going to list it shortly

- more viewing time for the tournament as a whole.
- gives players a chanc e to prepare for their opponents whcih means better games
- increases the advertisement value for season 2's chances of picking up more sponsors etc
- gives casters a decent workload but not too much, esp since its during the week.

overall it would be a more proffesional tournament whcih is what SEA needs, also inregards to bo1, no1 will take it seriously if its bo1, this tournament is SEA's best chance to show what it can do, being bo1 will NOT help that cause. bo3 will also allow for the better players to advance

**Dox** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDPhoenix

Week 1, Day 1: Match 1 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 2: Match 2 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 1, Day 3: Match 3 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)

Week 2, Day 1: Match 4 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 2: Match 5 x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3)
Week 2, Day 3: Up/Down Matches x 4 Brackets (4 x Bo3) - to eliminate 4 players down to Code A

Week 3, Day 1: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 3, Day 2: QuarterFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)

Week 4, Day 1: SemiFinals x 2 (2 x Bo5)
Week 4, Day 2: GrandFinals x 1 (1 x Bo7)

Exactly what I would love to see!

deL · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 2:38 PM

Agree with HDPhoenix.

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 5:21 PM

Just to clarify abit more. With the format I propose, each player will only have a single match-up for that night and will have more time to prepare for the next match (i.e. better games)

Because its just 1 match per player, the admin side (during the casting) is very minimal

It cannot be longer than 3 hours cause people have sh*t to do, especially on the weekends. Players can smash out their games then go out, rather than sit in a chat channel waiting for their opponents to finish a match so they can play. Viewers won't have to devote too big a block of time to it and the casters won't be overworked.

If it is on the weekends at 4pm-7pm SGT, that fits well with 7pm-10pm ANZ and we have loads of viewers too from 9am-12pm CET (for the Euros)

Lastly, if it is player X vs player Y matchup, we can hype that rather than just hyping a tournament. Every match day feels like a grand finals because you know who is playing who before hand. That generates more interest = more viewers = more material for sponsors

My 2cents

**TAEdgE** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 2:42 PM

Oh no not the cars again..

Also i rather like that idea Phoenix, but both ways are fine for me as a player at least.

**nirvAnA** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 3:57 PM

The main reason why i cramped it over 2 weeks instead of 4 was so we didnt compete with GSL who run at that exact time slot as us (5pmSGT/6pm KST) when their new season starts again. I feel we will lose up to 90% of our viewers if we compete directly with them. Any suggestions to work around this will be great.

Logistics wise, with a longer tournament it also means that
-Casters/Admins will have double duties, havent gone into detail but there might be manpower issues.
-Based on the above format players have to keep 5 days free as opposed to one for the group stage and everyone in their group has to keep those same 5 days free as well which is a logistics nightmare.

I like the feedback so far but i think it can be refined further so heres what i have to add:
1) i think we can make the tourney longer by a week at most, stretching the tournament over 3 weeks instead of 4 so it ends before next seasons ro16 GSL.
2) we can come up with a better match/day format than above that requries players in the group stage to just keep 2 days free instead of 5.
Perhaps Day1-2 will be group 1 games, day 3-4 group 2 games etc. So the group stage + up/down matches will be streched over the first 2 weeks instead of 1 week.

Yea i myself know that it will be super awesome to have a longer tournament for sponsors, more games, fairer results etc just that the format was made based on the circumstances and logistical issues we had to deal with. If you guys have any ideas how to work around them it will be great, and i will do my best to incoporate them.
Great feedback so far, thanks phoenix for leading that longer tourney format suggestion.

Also guys continue with the predictions, that was the purpose of this thead !
Hmm, i probably should move the format suggestions to the existing feedback thread we have.

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

The main reason why i cramped it over 2 weeks instead of 4 was so we didnt compete with GSL who run at that exact time slot as us (5pmSGT/6pm KST) when their new season starts again. I feel we will lose up to 90% of our viewers if we compete directly with them. Any suggestions to work around this will be great.

As far as I can tell, GSL and GSTL don't run on the weekends unless its a finals. If you want something consistent weekly and avoid GSL/GSTL, then you have to run it on weekends. Which frankly, is perfect for us. All we need to do is make sure our finals weekend doesn't clash with GSL/GSTL finals weekend and we're golden =)

zendex · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 4:15 PM

IMO, the point of having Bo1 in earlier stages is to give the newer players a chance to get into the lime light.

Unstable · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 4:22 PM

we can always do the bo3 format and have some games played on days that arent casted

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 5:36 PM

And frankly, I personally want this on the weekend cause I would love the sunday timeslot as that is the one day of the week I know I am consistently in Singapore so I can regularly cast. If it is on the weekdays, I'm incredibly iffy.

Caster Line-up??? - my suggestions
Friday: Sixth+Stitch? (from 7-10pm SGT, 10pm-1am AUT)?
Saturday: Benji+JacziE?
Sunday: HDPhoenix+KellyMILKIES?

I left Unstable out. He's running FXO, he's got bigger fish to fry ^_^

Unstable · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDPhoenix

I left Unstable out. He's running FXO, he's got bigger fish to fry ^_^

just too good for sea scene :O !

deL · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 5:47 PM

WOW deL your student not even good enough to cast, phoenix? BAD TEACHER.

**HDPhoenix** · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deL

WOW deL your student not even good enough to cast, phoenix? BAD TEACHER.

I would have put you and ziE together but then there would be too much mojo and the stream would jizz and explode. Oh wait, that's tonight. TOO LATE! See you on stream later ^_^

Yoz · Thu, 24th-Mar-2011, 7:08 PM

JacziE should only cast when she's drunk. Hilarity ensues.

Roz · Fri, 25th-Mar-2011, 4:58 AM

i personally think this should be longer as well, i understand that a lot of people love to watch gsl and might watch gsl over seasl if they were both on at the same time but i think there would be other stuff on when there's no gsl anyways haha. I understand having more viewers is good but i think running a good tournament with a good schedule and stuff, focusing on the players, on the results etc. are all important as well.

For some reason i just dont think we should be somewhat a fill in for the break gsl has. It's meant to be the most prestigious tournament of SEA, so we should just focus on making it good!

**nirvAnA** · Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 6:22 AM

Tentative format im working on for the group stage

Similar to what HDPhoenix suggested but modified for logistical reasons so players only have to keep 2 days free instead of 5.

All matches are to start at 5pm SGT / 8pm Sydney in week 1 and 7pm SGT / 10 pm sydney week 2.
All sets will be Bo3 with 3 sets to be played each matchday, 4 match days a week mon-thur.
Expected duration for each tournament day is 2-3 hours.
Casting will be done in pairs to be confirmed with two pairs to cast on 2 days each for the first 2 weeks
Pair 1 - Unstable + hut/dox? Pair 2 - Benji + jaczie/del? Pair 3 confirmed - kelly + phoenix/champi

Confirmed Castering schedule:
Week1: Games Start at 5pm SGT / 8PM AU as there are only 2 sg over the groups.
Mon/Tue(Group 1) - ?
Wed/Thurs(Group 2) - benji / xeen
Week2: Games Start at 7pm SGT / 10PM AU as there are only 2 aus over the 2 groups.
Mon/Tue(Group 3) - kelly/champi
Wed/Thurs(Group 4) - ?

Matches Explained

+ Show +

Week 1 - Group 1 & 2 with Up/Down matches
Monday, 28th March - Group 1, Match 1, 2 ,3
Match 3 decides the groups #1 seed and first Ro8 player from the group.

Tuesday, 29th March - Group 1, Match 4,5,6
Match 4 loser is the #4 seed in the group and immediately loses code S status.
Match 5 winner is the #2 seed in the group and qualifys for Ro8 and the loser of this match is the #3 seed.
Match 6 is an up/down match. Group1 #3 fights Code A Bracket A runner up for Code S status next season.

As this is the first season it may sound harsh to potentially have 8 new players but i feel it will be a good motivator for more practise and ensure an even stronger code S selection next season. So this system will be used at least for this season.

Wednesday, 30th March - Group 2, Match 1, 2 ,3
Thursday, 31st March - Group 2, Match 4,5,6
Group2 #3 fights Code A Bracket B runner up for Code S status next season.

Week 2 - Group 3 & 4 with Up/Down matches
Monday, 4th April - Group 3, Match 1, 2 ,3
Tuesday, 5th April - Group 3, Match 4,5,6
Group3 #3 fights Code A Bracket C runner up for Code S status next season.

Wednesday, 6th March - Group 4, Match 1, 2 ,3
Thursday, 7th March - Group 4, Match 4,5,6
Group4 #3 fights Code A Bracket D runner up for Code S status next season.

+ [After Group stage] +

Feedback:

Is it too harsh for code S #4 to be elminated straight away? Should he be involved in an up/down match as well? Or is this the better way just for season1 to quickly determine the best for next season?
We are not using Friday/Sat/Sunday. Should we be using it or do you guys wanna chill on the weekends? I have other commitments over the weeknds and i imagine most of you do so i planned the days as such.
Ro8 comments, i have not received any so far! Double elim possibilty or not needed?

LennX · Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 11:49 AM

Is it too harsh for code S #4 to be eliminated straight away? Should he be involved in an up/down match as well? Or is this the better way just for season1 to quickly determine the best for next season?

This will be okay as long as the Code S #4 gets a Ro8/Ro16 seeding for a Code A qualifier next season. And maybe having the top 2 from each qualifiers to have a playoff for the Code S place?

We are not using Friday/Sat/Sunday. Should we be using it or do you guys wanna chill on the weekends? I have other commitments over the weekends and i imagine most of you do so i planned the days as such.

With BSG and GPD on already for quite a few number of people, I do believe that SEASL should not be on weekends or else they will just take all the viewers from BSG/GPD.

Ro8 comments, i have not received any so far! Double elimination possibility or not needed?

Double elimination is not needed in my opinion as it is already a Bo3 for the group stages.

**nirvAnA** · Sun, 27th-Mar-2011, 1:02 AM

Code S Begins This Week!!! Schedule for Group Stage is as follows.

Week 1
Monday 7pm SGT / 10pm Sydney - Group 4 Match 1,2,3
Tuesday 7pm SGT / 10pm Sydney - Group 4 Match 4,5,6
Casters for this group: kelly + champi http://www.justin.tv/kellymilkies/

+ [Details] +

Wednesday 5pm SGT / 8pm Sydney - Group 2 Match 1,2,3
Thursday 5pm SGT / 8pm Sydney - Group 2 Match 4,5,6
Casters for this group: benji + xeen http://www.justin.tv/benjisc2

+ [Details] +

Week 2

+ [Week 2 Details] +

Groups:

+ Show +

Note:

Kowi has been uncontactable for the past week and has been replaced by nGenLight
The timings were made according to the players availablity so the groups are not played in order. i.e Group 4 goes first.
Also if there are 3 players in SEA it starts at 7pm SGT /10pm Sydney and if there are 3 ANZ players it starts at 5pm SGT / 8pm Sydney - This is because some SEA players have a problem with making it at 5pm SGT.
The monday/tues matches coincide with the GSL korea vs foreigner finals but i dont see a solution for that but this will be a good gauge/test to know many viewers we will lose if we clash with gsl timings.

Matches Explained

+ Show +

Map Rules

+ [Map Rules] +