[limjinsutpz]

i heard and saw thread about asg chobo .

yeah its me right..


smurfing is true / hack is not true

first of all , my eng is not good ,

i play for asgchobo sometimes cuz his my fan (mainly feb~now)

ladder and tournament

1time help make 2times more and more

and i understand your feeling . very angry

but i cant do anything for you guys . just tell the truth and tell sry about this .

i love sea community so i have sea acc also have sea friend also

i am really sorry all you guys

i think some sea guys really good sc2 (like pig tgun ender or etc)

i wanna see them soon , big major tournament

my sea server

nick is vVvSeoHyeon . 709

and in channel rossi


anyone want talk to me something

come to channel or whisper now

i wait 1hour cuz really sorry

its all my fault

dont blame korea or chobo or somethings just blame to me

T T

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	cant even be mad when its in broken english like that
	FvRphoneheha:	Welcome, good for you to apologise
	iVnStinger:
	Peleus:	want to bet? It's straight out blatant cheating and taking money off people like pig / mafia / tgun / rossi etc
	ETL.Santi:	legend
	FaDeHellfyre:	an apology is all good... but it's still cheating
	AsGNabi:	bawwrrr he's so cute. i want to adopt him.
	nirvAnA:	you deserve no positive rep for this, but thanks for posting this
	mGGAequitas:	tsk tsk
	TheGentleman:	Counter-Rep: This is behaviour I frown upon and I don't believe you should be receiving "likes" for this post.
	RicocheT:	Shouldn't have done it in the first place. But that broken english <333
	neKo:	Why are you guys positive repping? what the ****.
	x5.Revenant:	Serious case that deserves neg-rep, but empathize with him a little anw.
	Zepph:	thank you for your apology. Im sure your lesson has been learned.
	CHoBo(kice):
	QEDMazaire:	counterre[
	NDG.Stitch:	lol this guy prob won't care about rep hahahahahah
	FvRsolis:	Welcome to our community! GL HF, don't smurf next time kk you are a really strong player
	TABottles:	WTF is this upvote shit
	TAriiChard:	he knew what he was doing
	sRDante:	Can't neg rep this broken english
	MooZfY:	i feel ya
	EveMassacrisM:	F*** off and don't come back.
	breadfan:	Thanks for coming and making this post at least
	Dexterique:	Forgiven :)

[iVnStinger]

Thank you for taking the time to make this thread. Hope this doesn't happen again.

[NvJazBas]

Direct words from Seohyeon:
만약에
sea서버 사람들이
해외팀 활동같은거
원하지 않는다면
당장 은퇴하고 접을게요 잘못했으니
미련이 없네요 실력도 없고

Translation:
If SEA server community wants me to stop my gaming, I'll gladly accept the punishment and retire. I know what I've done wrong and I know I deserve it if I have to. I have no more attatchment and also skill..(I can't really translate the last line very well. No specific translation.. might want to just ignore the last line that I translated)

So.. I think its up to the whole community?

Quick Comments

	crAzerk:	SC2SEA Korean Translator
	FvRsolis:	Thanks for that :D
	TCPKiaSu:	thanks for the translate.. I think he should keep gaming if he wants to.. it's in none of our right to stop him

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Direct words from Seohyeon:
만약에
sea서버 사람들이
해외팀 활동같은거
원하지 않는다면
당장 은퇴하고 접을게요 잘못했으니
미련이 없네요 실력도 없고

Translation:
If SEA server community wants me to stop my gaming, I'll gladly accept the punishment and retire. I know what I've done wrong and I know I deserve it if I have to. I have no more attatchment and also skill..(I can't really translate the last line very well. No specific translation.. might want to just ignore the last line that I translated)

So.. I think its up to the whole community?

People make mistakes. People do bad things. I don't think he should stop his career. I think he needs a punishment to be aware that what he did was bad.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

People make mistakes. People do bad things. I don't think he should stop his career. I think he needs a punishment to be aware that what he did was bad.

I've spoken to him on bnet, i'm not going to contact any admins. He seems like he was in way over his head, in my opinion.

Quick Comments

iVnStinger:

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Direct words from Seohyeon:
만약에
sea서버 사람들이
해외팀 활동같은거
원하지 않는다면
당장 은퇴하고 접을게요 잘못했으니
미련이 없네요 실력도 없고

Translation:
If SEA server community wants me to stop my gaming, I'll gladly accept the punishment and retire. I know what I've done wrong and I know I deserve it if I have to. I have no more attatchment and also skill..(I can't really translate the last line very well. No specific translation.. might want to just ignore the last line that I translated)

So.. I think its up to the whole community?

Omg, as much as this is a serious issue here, please don't give up your gaming career. It's a shitstorm that happened, but you can't change it. All you can do now is outlive the past.

Quick Comments

	iM SundeR:	OUTLIVE!
	mGGNemesis:

[nirvAnA]

in before light says

"look at me im a kr and post in broken English everyone thinks its funny and i get mass up rep even after smurfing and deceiving everyone!"

Quick Comments

	crAzerk:	money
	EveJeonSa:
	nGenLight:	**** u slut.

[FaMe]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

in before light says

"look at me im a kr and post in broken English everyone thinks its funny and i get mass up rep even after smurfing and deceiving everyone!"

Technically he wasn't the one deceiving everyone. Yes, he still did a bad thing but at least he had the balls to come and apologise to what is essentially the SEA community.

Quick Comments

	Cyanide:	apologising after everything laid bare doesn't take balls.
	breadfan:	I would argue facing the community who know what you did to apologise does take some balls.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by paragonFaMe

Technically he wasn't the one deceiving everyone. Yes, he still did a bad thing but at least he had the balls to come and apologise to what is essentially the SEA community.

He did much more than apologize. He's definitely learnt his lesson, and anyone who continues to pursue this is.. well, how should I put this tactfully..

A giant cockmunch.

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	you come up with such colourful phrases :)
	FaDeHellfyre:	does apologising change the fact that he was involved in cheating?
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:
	breadfan:	Exactly how giant are we talking here?

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by paragonFaMe

Technically he wasn't the one deceiving everyone. Yes, he still did a bad thing but at least he had the balls to come and apologise to what is essentially the SEA community.

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

He is every single bit to blame as Chobo is. Every single person that was knocked out of a tourny because of this guy was robbed of chances to perform, opportunities at prize money, and opportunities to qualify for different things.

I don't think I can ever understand this communities feelings towards the word "sorry" mitigating and changing so much damage that was caused.

Edit: I'm ok with tgun thinking I'm a giant cockmunch because imo "sorry" doesn't cut it.

Quick Comments

	FaDeHellfyre:	agree. saying sorry is good, but doesn't change anything. it's still cheating
	iM tgun:	+Rep for actually willing to give your own opinion.
	RicocheT:	Just cos ur sorry, doesn't make it right
	nirvAnA:	he knocked both glade and ninja out in seasl

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Peleus

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

He is every single bit to blame as Chobo is. Every single person that was knocked out of a tourny because of this guy was robbed of chances to perform, opportunities at prize money, and opportunities to qualify for different things.

I don't think I can ever understand this communities feelings towards the word "sorry" mitigating and changing so much damage that was caused.

Edit: I'm ok with tgun thinking I'm a giant cockmunch because imo "sorry" doesn't cut it.

He didn't understand the magnitude of what he was doing.

Do you actually understand what he was ******* saying when we logged on (myself, rossi, jaz, rev) to talk to him?

He wanted to quit progaming because of this. Legit quit progaming, just because of this.

Are you ******* joking? He clearly didn't understand the consequences, and if you've seen the chatlogs I've been sent, you'd see that he was just way over his head. The second Rossi approached him, he instantly started trying to atone for what he did + didn't lie at all. The second he was questioned, he came clean.

You're allowed to have your own opinion, and that's fine -- that's something I respect. But if you guys go out of your way to pursue this more by contacting his team, I will be the first one to stand up and defend him, because it's very bloody obvious that he didn't know what he was doing was as bad as it is.

I'd support a ban (on him) for sc2sea tournaments, nothing more.

Quick Comments

	FaDeHellfyre:	punishment sounds reasonable
	HuT:	this guy gets it
	MooZfY:
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:
	breadfan:

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by tgun

He didn't understand the magnitude of what he was doing.

Do you actually understand what he was ******* saying when we logged on (myself, rossi, jaz, rev) to talk to him?

He wanted to quit progaming because of this. Legit quit progaming, just because of this.

Are you ******* joking? He clearly didn't understand the consequences, and if you've seen the chatlogs I've been sent, you'd see that he was just way over his head. The second Rossi approached him, he instantly started trying to atone for what he did + didn't lie at all. The second he was questioned, he came clean.

Firstly, obvioulsy I can't appreciate any 'mitigating' factors that may of occurred, or perhaps the appreciation by him for what he has done through chats with you, rossi etc considering I wasn't part of the conversation, my opinions are based off the info I have available to me.

Originally Posted by tgun

You're allowed to have your own opinion, and that's fine -- that's something I respect. But if you guys go out of your way to pursue this more by contacting his team, I will be the first one to stand up and defend him, because it's very bloody obvious that he didn't know what he was doing was as bad as it is.

I'd support a ban (on him) for sc2sea tournaments, nothing more.

Do I want to ruin his progaming career and force him to retire over it? No, although it's closer than you might suspect (probably feel different tomorrow). I absolutely despise cheaters, imagine your feelings for them tgun and times that by 2. If I wanted to ruin his career I'd post this to TL, clearly I haven't.

I was actually writing my reply when you posted, and my "are you serious" was more a direct response to being told that he "didn't deceive anyone". When it happened to be posted after yours I'm sure "Are you serious" could be seen as disagreeing you as well when I didn't even know you had posted.

Point being I'd like to see some punishment, such as lifetime bans from anything sc2sea ever runs again. Removal from team / retiring? Undecided / leaning towards probably not.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

pretty much exactly how i feel

[FaMe]

Originally Posted by Peleus

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

He is every single bit to blame as Chobo is. Every single person that was knocked out of a tourny because of this guy was robbed of chances to perform, opportunities at prize money, and opportunities to qualify for different things.

I don't think I can ever understand this communities feelings towards the word "sorry" mitigating and changing so much damage that was caused.

Edit: I'm ok with tgun thinking I'm a giant cockmunch because imo "sorry" doesn't cut it.

Yes, very serious. I never actually said that his apology should/would change anything, and I agree with you that it sucks for the people who were knocked out and missed out on opportunities, but he never really had to come to this community and apologise, therefore it's certainly a nice thing for him to do.
And I don't think he is EVERY bit to blame as Chobo is. We have no idea of what Chobo was telling him, ie. things to write in to chat, channels to join, or whether he even knew himself what was going on (obviously from what he's said he had some idea, but did he know what the matches were actually for? doubtful)

[crAzerk]

Thanks for posting!

+ [Click this only if you are bored] +

I pasted what Jazbaz wrote above into Google translate, here's the translation:

"If people sea server Haeoetim activities like a If you do not want I will retire immediately and incorrectly folded haeteuni Do not have one regret, no skills"

Quick Comments

Baldie:

Sounds legit

[TheGentleman]

Apology accepted, thank you for taking the time to write your apology.

[FaDeHellfyre]

I think it shouldn't be up to us, but up to his team to decide his punishment.

[CHoBo(kice)]

If you want someone to punish, I am right here.

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

If you want someone to punish, I am right here.

Oh believe me, you are BOTH to blame.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

If you want someone to punish, I am right here.

Kinky







10char

[NvJazBas]

Time to study.

Quick Comments

syfMiley:

word

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Time to study.

Go forth my friend.

[zenabi]

Its not about giving a punishment, more that both of you learn what you did was really bad and stupid. Don't try and take punishment for him, because despite everything, he was involved and still should be punished in some form. Whether its as severe as your punishment in the end, that's up people like Nirvana and that to decide.

[InteGrand]

That's probably the nicest/heart-warming apology i've ever heard in my entire life. I can't help but think that's 60% ass-licking.

[nGenLight]

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Exactly !
	Trinion:
	TAavanar:	lol i like you.
	syfCabracan:	Nice.

[neKo]

Looooooooool please don't show your face again.

Quick Comments

	Zombie.:	This is not helpful, and what give you the right to decide such a thing?
	TABottles:	he doesn't but he shares my opinion

[x5.NotoriouS]

Quick Comments

x5.Phoenix:

Wipe this mess off my screen please..

[limjinsutpz]

sry anyway good night

[mGGDrGooSe]

How old are you SeoHyeon (just out of interest)? I think becoming an active member of the SEA community would be a good start to an apology. Be awesome to maybe see your stream listed here on sc2sea.com.

Quick Comments

sRDreaM:

his 24 I believe

[TABiggun]

Look guys, Seo did a bad thing for cheating, but I think we all agree that him quitting pro gaming would be a terrible thing.

I propose that perhaps he could give something back to the community such as some kind of free coaching or maybe an instructional video or something. And / or he could have practice games with people.

I'm just throwing around a few ideas but I definitely think we would all benefit the most from this experience if Seo trys to 'redeem' himself and give something back to the community instead of him being punished and thrown away.
Because of the time people have spent to solve this and also the opportunities people have been 'robbed' of it would only be fair.

You take and now you give back imo.

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:	food for thought
	Zealo:
	HuT:	excellent suggestions
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Look guys, Seo did a bad thing for cheating, but I think we all agree that him quitting pro gaming would be a terrible thing.

I propose that perhaps he could give something back to the community such as some kind of free coaching or maybe an instructional video or something. And / or he could have practice games with people.

I'm just throwing around a few ideas but I definitely think we would all benefit the most from this experience if Seo trys to 'redeem' himself and give something back to the community instead of him being punished and thrown away.
Because of the time people have spent to solve this and also the opportunities people have been 'robbed' of it would only be fair.

You take and now you give back imo.

We already have plenty of 'his' replays to learn from



But really, good idea.. welcome him in to the community and he can give back to us..

Quick Comments

Rage:

oh you!

[Nemo]

Why close all those threads before everyone can comment ? I'm only finishing my day work and I can only read all this stuff and post now.

No wonder I found him very good in the replay analysis. lol In fact I never thought of watching for any smurfing during those analysis because it was not what I was asked. Props to Rossi, Nirvana, Mafia and all those implied to have found this.

In fact in one of those 5 games I watched, he talked once in quite broken English (I mean, even worst than mine ) to Strafe asking a question : http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/320663846 (highlight)
"Sorry my eng is bad
Japan
Team Monkey
N°3
good game"

I thought it was weird but thought it might be some private joke or troll between Chobo and Strafe. Don't know all the stories between players. I'm surprised no one have raised that. Maybe they had the same thought it was just a troll. But now, knowing the truth, it takes a whole different meaning.

Curious that someone you have the truth under your nose and you don't see it. Life keep forcing us to humility I guess.

[Zealo]

two questions for seohyeon/kice:

how long has seohyeon been smurfing as chobo, and when exactly?

+ Show +

i'm assuming the answer is most/all ladder games, and most/all of the (very few) online tournament games played on chobo's SEA and NA accounts.

what is the motivation for doing this for both players?

+ Show +

money? a korean getting easy prizes from SEA only tournaments? as his clan mate, i've noticed for a long time that kice barely ever enters any tournaments (offline or online) until about a month ago. unless i'm mistaken, the latest MC is the first prize 'chobo' has 'won'. playing thousands of ladder games over 6months+ (to make that seem slightly more legit?) hardly seems worth it...

also, why use kice's account and risk his reputation rather than a smurf account or someone who isn't serious about the game? (still risks seohyeon's reputation/career, but you're doing that anyway). weren't the SEASL qualifiers 'chobo' made the semi finals in (lost to axslav and someone?) open to non SEA residents anyway? (IE, axslav and QXC)

did he want to improve his cred so he could make his fortune from coaching? seohyeon just levelling his account for him for fun/to be nice? i don't know how much money he made from that, i know when i've referred people looking for coaching to kice a couple of times he's said he's too busy with work/uni to take on a new student :S

or was it mostly just an ego / troll thing?

one question for several people on this thread:

why are you being so forgiving of seohyeon (but so harsh on chobo)?

+ Show +

essentially, their crimes are:
seohyeon - playing in tournament(s) he was not elligable for, using the account of someone who was
kice - letting someone else use his account to play in tournament(s).
(i'm assuming no one is calling for punishment on ladder smurfing)

if anything, i'd say seohyeon's crime greater, but that is purely my opinion.

(if i enter the next BSG using my friend's account and get caught, i'd sure as **** expect a more severe punishment than my friend)

neither of them admitted to it until some pretty damn convincing proof showed up, also neither of them denied it after they saw the convincing evidence.

isn't this exactly the same situation as when major smurfed into an SEA only tournament? were people really this forgiving of him?

ending his career would be too extreme in my opinion (but note that's the level of offence he thought this was), but this is pretty ******* insulting towards the SEA community. "banned from future SEA tournaments" isn't really a punishment if he was only going to enter them on chobo's account anyway. for tgun to suggest that notifying his team would be going too far baffles me.

i don't know what sort of punishments are appropriate or even possible for starcraft players who do things like this (in other sports they'd be suspended from playing for x amount of time i guess?), but there's no ******* way they should not have an example made of them

offering free coaching would at least give something back to the community they've damaged (both of them) i guess :/

I thought it was weird but thought it might be some private joke or troll between Chobo and Strafe. Don't know all the stories between players. I'm surprised no one have raised that. Maybe they had the same thought it was just a troll. But now, knowing the truth, it takes a whole different meaning.

kice used to say he was on team monkey from japan (and other things) in games to troll people quite often. i never considered it was to cover for the poor english of someone smurfing on his account.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Whats is AsG's response to the issue?.. CHobo out of the clan?

[dippa]

I don't even think a ban on SC2SEA tournaments is the best option, given that it's obvious hyun was a bit clueless about the whole affair.

Should get Jaz or someone with conversational Korean to put together like a training video, have a korean professional walk through a build for everyone and upload it solely for SC2SEA. (Then link on reddit for maximum karma.)

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by dippa

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

not malicious? he broke the rules in an attempt to win prize money he was not entitled to, then tried to cover it up when nirvana got suspicious and did his test thing.

poor english doesn't make that ok.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Sent1nel]

Every single gamer on the planet knows what smurfing is, knows it's against the rules and knows it's a form of cheating. The more damning piece to the puzzle is that once the inquiry begun Seo himself actively colluded in order to prevent the truth from coming out. Irrespective of their understanding of the consequences both Chobo and Seo knew full well what they were doing was wrong.

I don't think there is any question that if key members of the SEA community had not taken time out to uncover the truth to this - neither Chobo or Seo would have ever openly admitted to their wrong doings. Chobo would have continued to deny many hard working legitimate players from receiving their just desserts, all whilst potentially causing irreparable damage to the SEA scene as a whole.

Having said that Seo should definitely keep playing. He needs to take this as a lesson learned the hard way. As far as consequences for him I'll leave that up to the people here at SEA to decide however as Dippa has mentioned, some "community service" might be a good way for him to make amends.

For me Chobo needs to have the book thrown at him. He instigated the mess we are in now and has caused harm to the image of an International player as a result. Due to his actions he clearly has a flagrant disregard for the SEA community. That might mean a complete ban on LAN events as well. You cannot simply toy with and potentially cause irreparable harm to something so many people here take seriously.

Quick Comments

	Peleus:
	inFeZa:	hey i just met you, and you just posted, and its a good one, up rep maybe?

[yongming]

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't even think a ban on SC2SEA tournaments is the best option, given that it's obvious hyun was a bit clueless about the whole affair.

Should get Jaz or someone with conversational Korean to put together like a training video, have a korean professional walk through a build for everyone and upload it solely for SC2SEA. (Then link on reddit for maximum karma.)

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

he has a sea account. if he had joined using his own account under the pretext that he doesnt know the rules, it is forgiveable. but he took the trouble to participate in a tournament that is not open to him, under another person's account. moreover he is involved with chobo in the cover up (the skype and game involving nirvana and rossi) in an attempt to obstruct investigation.

[Strafe]

I'm sorry, but he cheated. His English might not be as good as some of the people from New Zealand, but even in Korea playing a tournament that has prize money under someone else's name is blatant cheating. So he knew what he was doing was wrong and there should be repercussions. That they don't need to be as severe as Chobo's is quite obvious, but he can't walk away scotch free.

I think a ban on Sea tournaments for a while and informing his team of what he did are in order. Any more is debatable.

Quick Comments

	iM MaFia:	the sheep man
	nirvAnA:
	Nemo:	Agreed 100%. He knew perfectly well he was cheating.
	NvJazBas:	**** off. but your right.

[TheGentleman]

Judgement has been passed, case closed.

Link to the punishment and incident summary: here.

[syfChadMann]

Well I think the big issue with CHobo is how much he lied - he was a SC2SEA TGM Coach! because of his ladder history obtained by other people smurfing. He perpetuated this for a long time, and used it to better his own ego and reputation. He asked hyun to keep up the lie and to play for him in the tournament.. Hyun didn't realise what he was doing - I don't think he realised the severity of the situation. CHobo gloated on the fourms about 'his' ability and charged people for coaching.

If anything, chobo has lied, cheated and deceived, whereas Hyun was the enabler who cheated. But when asked, never lied. CHobo is the cause of the issue and no doubt the instigator of Hyun smurfing on his accoun (I doubt Hyun asked him to use his account, but CHoBo probably offered)...

anyway - there is alot to write about this, but it is so late.. I'll add to it tomorrow.

[PiG]

Anyone standing up for seohyeon I ask you remember that there is no way anyone could do this without realising it's very wrong. I don't care how apologetic he is once caught.

He didn't own up straight away because him and chobo kept on decieving nirvana by getting him to continue impersonating chobo and and answering perrsonal questions to trick nirvana and this community.

Sure he was quicker to own up then chobo once caught but that doesn't make him a saint.

Also I am still investigating replays for evidence of production tab and streamcheating because of his lucky interceptions and troop movements that made little sense on ohana vs ender, and the lack of scans except when his opponent goes mutalisks. I'm not saying he cheated but I'm saying the investigation is not over and he needs to be shamed for his actions. It doesn't need to end his career but it MUST be known to his team amongst others. Remember byun and coca not playing GSL for months?

Also what progaming career who does he play for?

edit: he has some small sponsorship. not really a career

Quick Comments

Peleus:

Agreed

[NvPinder]

I don't understand the whole 'okay lets forgive him cos he had a teary in private chats' thing...

If you found out I had played on a gold players account in multiple BSGs/PDs, had that player then start coaching people based on things that I had done for him and successfully hid it for months, receiving tournaments spots/money/coaching hours that would have otherwise gone to the deserving players, would you all forgive me if I pm'd you saying how sorry I was and that I was going to quit sc2 because of it?

It's the shittest thing in the world when you do something stupid and get called out for it, we've all been there, it sucks ass and I'm sure he is legitimately apologetic and emotional right now, but for me personally "sorry" doesn't particularly cut it, and some form of punishment should be handed out (even if its as little as free coaching hours or w/e is the most productive thing for the community other than straight up bans).

If this goes unpunished you can expect me personally to be playing a few BSGs over the next few months.

edit; it appears he was punished and I missed it with 4 threads covering this! My argument is now pointless, BSG players rejoice.

Quick Comments

	Champi:
	ToR.Arnor:	100% wouldnt forgive you :) ps theres another post outlining his punishment
	Sent1nel:
	TABottles:	Dang, you could have won me some BSG's!
	FvRphoneheha:	Sticking to your guns!
	Zealo:
	TAavanar:	phew i wouldnt want to hit you in the PDs

[Maynarde]

Both seohyeon and Chobo have been punished for this. As cute as broken English is it doesn't stop you from getting punished

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=4930

[Sedz]

People need to stop and think what gain Chobo had for doing this as opposed to what gain Seo had.

As I mentioned in the statement, Seo wanted the money, and asked to play on Chobo's account in the tournament, so Chobo let him.

Chobo only had reputation/fame to gain whereas Seo had a nice sum of money to gain, they are both equally in the wrong here and should both be punished equally.

If you're an accomplice to robbery, regardless of who instigated or who broke in first, you're still an accomplice, and 9 times out of 10 will be charged exactly the same as your partner in crime (unless of course there's extenuating circumstances)

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	They are punished equally... check the thread I just linked
	NvJazBas:	read
	x5.Revenant:	Take my negreps, take them all

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by Sedz

People need to stop and think what gain Chobo had for doing this as opposed to what gain Seo had.

As I mentioned in the statement, Seo wanted the money, and asked to play on Chobo's account in the tournament, so Chobo let him.

Chobo only had reputation/fame to gain whereas Seo had a nice sum of money to gain, they are both equally in the wrong here and should both be punished equally.

If you're an accomplice to robbery, regardless of who instigated or who broke in first, you're still an accomplice, and 9 times out of 10 will be charged exactly the same as your partner in crime (unless of course there's extenuating circumstances)

In the summary thread, it was said that Seo didn't receive any money?

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

In the summary thread, it was said that Seo didn't receive any money?

Chobo was planning to send the money he received to Seo is my guess.

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by Sedz

Chobo was planning to send the money he received to Seo is my guess.

It was said that Seo played it for fun, not for money.

Edit: not saying in anyway he did a right thing.

Quick Comments

	Sedz:	read
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	WHO THE **** NEG REPS JAZ, WTF IS THIS
	Neoneoz:	counter-rep
	AvMyuu:	dont neg rep the perfect human...

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

It was said that Seo played it for fun, not for money.

Edit: not saying in anyway he did a right thing.

Well sorry to inform you, but you are incorrect. Seo played it because he wanted the money.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	didn't you just say it was "your guess"????????
	ROOTPetraeus:	i dun like u
	x5.Revenant:	Fail.
	Synizta:	you said before "is my guess" and now according to you it's 100%? Proof?
	MrToast:	You cant negative rep the truth
	AsGNabi:
	Neoneoz:	Bad
	Champi:	moonstar
	deL:	^^^^^

[NvJazBas]

Read the summary thread

[x5_Bard]

Except chobo used another person playing on his account for personal gain with coaching. It wasn't just letting Seo play on his account, he aimed to capatalise on this as well.

Both are equally to blame for account sharing. But chobos actions on this forum and in the SEA community deserve much larger consequences from us. If this goes onto TL/reddit Seo will be the only player really punished, as I doubt any of them would care about a terran they have never heard of who got someone else to play his account.

I do care though. Chobo got someone else to play his account so that he could join TGM and profit off coaching. He then proceeded to waste alot of peoples time denying accusations that he was cheating and even tried to hide it further. He also made his clan look bad, you guys defended him quite vigorously only to have him come back with a massive **** you.

tldr Both are equally to blame for the account sharing. But chobos actions after are totally his own.

[TABottles]

Go make your money elsewhere seohyeon

[NvJazBas]

One more retard shit from you, please get the perfect human thing off me so I can start personal attacks

Quick Comments

	Peleus:	ROFL
	ROOTPetraeus:	pre-emptive counter rep ;)
	Sedz:	how many more 'retard shit?'
	iMSystem:	Pet so clever
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	<3
	x5.Revenant:	post-emptive counter rep ;)
	Neoneoz:
	TAavanar:	LOL too perfect, no homo
	Champi:	*** off sedz. jaz is right
	AvMyuu:
	deL:	don't care about argument just wanna rep jazbas
	iVnStinger:	Pet, are you Nestea?!

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by Zealo

i was assuming that meant he laddered chobo's accounts over the last 5 months 'for fun' and not for money.

i am currently of the belief that seo was going to receive most/all of the prize money from any SEA only tournaments he won. since this masters cup was the first prize he'd won on chobo's account, it makes sense he wouldn't have received anything.

there's no way his english is good enough to be 'tricked' into playing in multiple tournaments but not good enough to know they were for money.

Sigh....

10char

[TABiggun]

I would like to bring up something. I find it hard to believe that Seo was smurfing for chobo without getting paid any money. Why would he spend tons of hours laddering for chobo, when he has his own US account (vVvSeohyeon) and also I assume he has his own SEA account since he used it to play in the international masters cup. He has his own accounts, so why ladder for chobo and then lie so he can pretend to be him? I find it hard to believe that someone would do this because they "like their fans" or whatever his excuse was.

Imo Chobo had to pay him because it just wouldn't make sense. I'm sure it would be hard for a korean to resist being paid some money to ladder, essentially being paid to practice. Same goes for Naama.
Then once the prospect was brought up to enter a tournament and earn some more cash, he would think he may as well since he is already pretending to be chobo.

If this is true, which I believe it is, this would be the second time that Seo and chobo has lied to us and mean that they haven't come clean even after being proven guilty. Also, this would be consistent with the original smurf report that Nirvana mentioned which was that "Chobo was paying someone to ladder on his account".

There were also a few other things that I don't know why chobo hasn't answered, such as how long has he been lying to us? How did he manage to trick Nirvana's smurf tests? (i think he said with skype?)

Also, one final thing. Even though there was no 100% evidence, there was no 100% clearing proof that Seo wasn't hacking. I think map hacks were unlikely, but something like a production tab hack could have been used. There was a lot of weird shit that Seo did in those games that could not be explained. So i'd say it is suspicious, but not that likely.
It's not that big a deal but I think we should be aware of it since Seo said he wasn't being paid by Chobo, and he also said he wasn't using maphacks . . .

Quick Comments

Sedz:

[jayaiwhy]

Chobo apologized to us in Perth Starcraft II chat and has said that Seo played the tournament because he needed the money.

I don't see why Seo would play Masters Cup for Chobo if he wasn't getting anything out of it...

edit:
biggun : just like some of us have fun smurfing, maybe he found SEA a bronze town compare to Korea? I'm not sure *shrug*

Quick Comments

	ToRPeek:	Couldn't he have played as himself?
	TABiggun:	Why would he ladder for chobo and pretend to be him?
	Sedz:

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

Chobo apologized to us in Perth Starcraft II chat and has said that Seo played the tournament because he needed the money.

I don't see why Seo would play Masters Cup for Chobo if he wasn't getting anything out of it...

edit:
biggun : just like some of us have fun smurfing, maybe he found SEA a bronze town compare to Korea? I'm not sure *shrug*

Response to Edit: Like I said in my post, I'm pretty sure he had his own SEA account (the one he used to play in the international Masters Cup legitimately). If it was as innocent as "wants to have fun smurfing" he could just rename that account or buy his own.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Mr Biggun

This has already been discussed, actions have been made. What are you trying to aim with all this? This thread was about seo making his apology and your just itching to spark more conflict from me.

There is more to the story but there is no point in stirring personal matter.

In summary the ladder games were a kind gesture because I could not maintain pool all the time due to commitments and I only ever paid for coaching from him.

Quick Comments

	Champi:	why are you even still around? get lost ur a disgrace
	Another:	you are not wanted in this community.
	NvRossi:	ROFL, he said he doesnt coach....
	Neoneoz:	he said he's bad in english
	TADivinity:	How are you not banned from making posts as well?

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Mr Biggun
What are you trying to aim with all this? This thread was about seo making his apology and your just itching to spark more conflict from me.

All these aftershocks should be natural on someone who f***ed over the trust of the whole community as well as close ones. To be frank, I don't even know why you're still around.

Quick Comments

Champi:

the fact that he is indicates he doesnt feel very sorry imo

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Mr Biggun

This has already been discussed, actions have been made. What are you trying to aim with all this? This thread was about seo making his apology and your just itching to spark more conflict from me.

There is more to the story but there is no point in stirring personal matter.

In summary the ladder games were a kind gesture because I could not maintain pool all the time due to commitments and I only ever paid for coaching from him.

wtf I'm not trying to start any more conflict with you. My post was a legitimate concern because your whole story doesn't make sense.

I don't want you to whine and try turn this into a personal matter. I just want you to answer the questions and be more transparent with the community instead of always giving these ambiguous responses.

[Champi]

why wouldnt he want to spark more conflict?

what u did was disgusting, and u should feel disgusting

just shutup and keep your head down before u make things worse for yourself

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by TekChampi

what u did was disgusting, and u should feel disgusting

You Tube

You Tube

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Champi:

[deL]