[nGenLight]

Let me reiterate that this thread isn't trying to lay the blame on the players, the question is pretty simple - What should have happened? What should happen now? What can we do about this in the future? As I see it is pretty divided down the line right now, both sides delivering pretty good arguments. However said, Tguns latest post introduced peices of precedence that probably favours a regame.

[ROOT`iaguz]

I understand the importance of a map, but in a game where both players agree to the map selection, under the belief that it is in the map pool with no conflicting mindsets at the time, then the final result should stand. As I said earlier, if Iaguz, bless his beard, realised in the middle of the game that it was not in the map pool, a regame would be viable. Even if it was the instant the game finished.

I realised it was the wrong map immediately after the end.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I realised it was the wrong map immediately after the end.

My mistake. Either way though, I still think that both players were under the belief that metalopolis was in the map pool with no conflicting mindsets at the time.

[deL]

It is the player's fault, the admins don't have 100 pairs of eyes and obviously can't police each game. They make the threads with the map pool, repeat the map pool to the players in chat, repeat the map pool when asked in the channel. Once the information is out there it's the player's responsibility to play it on that map in the Ro512 just as in the Ro4. It just so happens that maps are something that can be easily confused, unlike similar playing guidelines like the appropriate server, time or game mode.

If the map pool affects players so much then surely they'd pay more attention to it before the tournament starts.

Quick Comments

	JaFF:
	Nemo:	Indeed

[nGenLight]

One of the main reasons noone noticed they were playing on a map not in the map pool is because Metalopolis has been a pretty standard map in tournaments for a very long time. Revz obviously picked it because he thought it was PROBABLY in the map pool, and although disgruntled, Iaguz played through the map because he probably thought it was in the map pool too.

This however, does not change the fact that the map was not within the tournament.

BTW THANK YOU FOR REMOVING METAL ADMINS

[Paroxysm]

No, of course it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't in the map pool. BUT, we cant force a regame, it just wouldnt work. Now, the only step is to discuss how to PREVENT this from happening again.

[Paroxysm]

Also, it is a mix between the players and the admins fault for not realising. Neither party is 100% liable, but both of them could have checked to make sure that the map was right. When I play in tournaments I check to make sure the map is in the map pool every game, and it is a good habit to get into.

[nGenLight]

Just wanted to also say, I understand how tough a situation and question this is - which puts the admins at a very tough spot. This is obviously seen through the divided opinion. I like to ask the tough questions, it generates dicussion, keeps my mind busy.

I appreciate everyone for being civil, well-spoken and entertaining this thread.

[inFeZa]

Regameeuuuuu

[iM MaFia]

There are rules in a tournament for a reason, otherwise why have rules at all?

C'mon guys

[Champi]

Revenant is being an honourable competitor has even said he would regame it, why is this even still being discussed?

regame it for crying out loud

If both players are fine with it being a regame (WHICH THEY ARE!)

then there is absolutely no reason why there should not be a regame, i see no other reason for there to be a discussion on the matter

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

If both players are fine with it being a regame (WHICH THEY ARE!)

then there is absolutely no reason why there should not be a regame, i see no other reason for there to be a discussion on the matter

Players shouldn't come into it at all, this is an admin decision.

[Champi]

Originally Posted by Xeen

Players shouldn't come into it at all, this is an admin decision.

i disagree,

yes it is the admins decision, but theres no reason they should ignore the fact that the player who won on the illegitimate map is willing to accept that a mistake was made and will regame.

rules were broken, accidentally or not, and to deliberately not rectify the situation when the person who is at the disadvantage accepts a regame is retarded

[UHF]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

i disagree,

yes it is the admins decision, but theres no reason they should ignore the fact that the player who won on the illegitimate map is willing to accept that a mistake was made and will regame.

rules were broken, accidentally or not, and to deliberately not rectify the situation when the person who is at the disadvantage accepts a regame is retarded

I disagree. It's ok if both players are willing & able to regame AND the admin is willing to overrule his decision.

HOWEVER, you shouldn't rag on the admin if he doesn't want to overrule his decision.

(That is of course unless you don't want anyone adminning anymore for fear of the community belting you up if you don't change your rulings to popular opinion.)

[Xeen]

No. If the player's opinion on the situation counts, then you're accepting that following the rules is optional based on what the player wants. You cannot have a situation with two different possible rulings because the players feel differently and still expect to have legitimacy in your rules.

In an organized competition, the role of the player is to play, anything beyond that needs to be handled by the admins for the sake of impartiality.

Quick Comments

	|Erasmus|:	Agreed... if the admin decision is that the rules require a regame... it doesn't matter what revenant is okay with.
	UHF:	This
	x5_dot:
	JaFF:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Xeen

No. If the player's opinion on the situation counts, then you're accepting that following the rules is optional based on what the player wants. You cannot have a situation with two different possible rulings because the players feel differently and still expect to have legitimacy in your rules.

In an organized competition, the role of the player is to play, anything beyond that needs to be handled by the admins for the sake of impartiality.

So you're admitting (as previously noted) that it's not the players fault :|

That's the only thing I'm trying to put into this discussion, by the way: every large tournament you see, the players are presented a maplist by admins and the map is made by admins. I understand you obviously can't do this for every game online in a big tournament such as the CO, but when it gets to ro16+, it's feasible. It would avoid this whole issue :|

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by tgun

So you're admitting (as previously noted) that it's not the players fault :|

How did you come to that conclusion? If I said 'sentences should be given by a judge, not decided by the criminal itself' would you say 'then you admit it's not the criminal's fault?' You're confusing a discussion of the resolution with the cause of the issue.

It's the fault of all parties involved, the players for screwing up and the admins for not catching it, but that's not relevant - what's important is how the problem gets resolved, and that's entirely in the hands of the administration.

[Champi]

Bottom line:

a mistake was made, therefore a rule was broken. so the game was illegitimate and the only appropriate thing to do is regame the final match.

if they choose to not rectify mistakes then this league is delegitimised by not following rules

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I realised it was the wrong map immediately after the end.

Hmm. It's easy to say what I think the admins should have done, and what I would have done, at that point in time.

As far as this particular situation goes, Revz has agreed to a regame, and they should roll with that.

As far as setting a precedent goes... if it's realised during the game, or right after the game (ie before the next round etc is played) then I think a regame should be granted, but if it's let slide at that point then the result should stand...

Players should be aware of the map pool, but at that stage in a tournament admins should also be aware of what's going on.

Not putting any blame on anyone, stuff happens, admining is hard.

[DM.MCZ.Shondy]

Anyway to change my vote on the poll, voted wrongly.