[SLCN.Petrify]

Originally Posted by UHF

Well let's be fair, that's a different matter.

The subject of Avant being able to retrieve all support as per 1.1.2, is only if ToR left the contract earlier than stipulated and without proper notice (not if Avant remove ToR).

Regardless, ToR cannot dispute whether or not they have left the team with or without proper notice because of 5.7. They could have done everything by the book and had that term considered breached.

Quick Comments

UHF:

I was simply bringing up the fact 1.1.2 doesn't occur as you mentioned though :P

[SLCNPezz]

Well the fact that it's "standard practice" doesn't mean it's right or fair, it just shows how dodgy esports contracts can be.

[Pandan]

Straight away, that's the wrong contract.

Doesn't have Seth's name on it.

[Pandan]

Also wrong domain name (that's the old one)

Current domain is avantgaming.com.au

Quick Comments

	mGGDaedalus:	wrong domain name? gosh what a farce o.0
	syfChase:	joshpls domain is srs bsns

[SLCN.Petrify]

That was one of the contracts given in negotiation that I was sent. I just got my hands on a newer version which looks equally ridiculous from skimming over it; I'll tell you whats wrong with it when I return from uni

[Pandan]

Also, can you just redact their personal info/addresses on that google doc?

And anyone elses in it

Quick Comments

SLCN.Petrify:

No idea how to use google docs, I'll sort it out when I get home from uni, will remove doc now

[Dox]

Inb4 I was the mastermind behind all of this

Quick Comments

	Pox:	STOP DESTROYING PEOPLES' LIVES
	|Erasmus|:	I thought finding more babies to eat took up all your time now?
	SLCN.Petrify:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

[iM SundeR]

I get the feeling that this is a result of many organisations around the world (and Australia) basically using kids and gamers as marketing slaves while they literally get nothing in return.

Being a part of a sponsored team does not automatically mean there has to be a huge divide between player and management. Look at a team like Axiom - I GUARANTEE that the players on that team are among the happiest in the world.

If the players want to get out of a contract and have a bad taste in their mouth - it's for a reason. You can't just hide behind the contract and say 'well this is a contract like it or not my organisation not yours sucked in buddy'.

There is no reason to feel this attitude towards other people in the Australian scene. Founding, managing or working for teams, in reality, does not elevate your social status, and it's a real shame that some peoples attitudes reflect this nonsense.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Petrify:	Best post in this thread. Summed it up perfectly.
	EXCL:	the middle man making money :P
	ToRSpartaz:	Brilliant mate

[Dox]

Originally Posted by iM SundeR

There is no reason to feel this attitude towards other people in the Australian scene. Founding, managing or working for teams, in reality, does not elevate your social status, and it's a real shame that some peoples attitudes reflect this nonsense.

https://twitter.com/NvDox/status/317043277771718657

Quick Comments

	|Erasmus|:	haha... good one.
	iM SundeR:	LOL

[EXCL]

lol was this even proof read? there are so many tense, grammatical and wording errors for a binding document. Anyone who creates a contract should have at least some legality validation or endorsement. This alone would have scared me away :P

[Pandan]

Originally Posted by iM SundeR

You can't just hide behind the contract and say 'well this is a contract like it or not my organisation not yours sucked in buddy'

A) Not the case at all, neither side has even said that?
B) Irrelevant. The only people in this community that act like managers are > players have been made fun of repeatedly

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by Pandan

A) Not the case at all, neither side has even said that?
B) Irrelevant. The only people in this community that act like managers are > players have been made fun of repeatedly

A) Saying 'how can you complain, this is the contract you signed' is literally hiding behind the contract.
B) While this might be true in the SC2 community, it hasn't changed anyone's behaviour, and if you start to talk about the wider Australian eSports community: hilarious.

[Pandan]

Nowhere in here has avant said "how can you complain, this is the contract you signed", as far as I understood they refused to sign it?

Yeah, regarding non-sc2 and B), LoL community managers for example seem to value themselves greater than players, events hell, even the game haha

Quick Comments

Dox:

YEEEEEEEEP

[iM SundeR]

It's not so much that they haven't said it. If the players didn't want to sign it, and gave valid reasons for doing so, and were forced to leave the organisation because 'the contract is final take it or leave it', then it kinda sucks for all involved because it's just a bunch of wasted time and effort.

It's perfectly reasonable to say that the contract can be negotiated, but the terms of that negotiation, in most cases, never clear. Much like the mysterious 'case-by-case' basis and reimbursement 'guidelines' I've seen a lot of players having to deal with.

But it's just my two cents, I'm not well versed in putting together contracts. I'm just all for transparency, that's all.

[NDG.Stitch]

Bro. Sorry to hear this happen.
The team has been getting so good, it's sad to see the sponsorship couldn't get through.
Seems like a pretty similar case with us and PokerStrategy. Some sponsors just don't work well.
I wish you and your team good luck!

Quick Comments

ToRSpartaz:

<3

[jbhewitt]

My only preferences with contracts is that they should be short and to the point.

In regards to ToR leaving Avant, I'm sorry to hear you couldn't work out the differences and come to an agreement.

Quick Comments

Pandan:

+1