[TACosmic]

inb4 it was his 11/10 korean gm girlfriend playing and not him

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:
	deL:	11/10 stands for his rax build times

[iMSystem]

Wait, **** this shit. Impromtu Podcast show tomorrow, we go hard out no ******* fluff and call this guy on the show and get the truth!

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	djsystem!
	nirvAnA:	THIS RIGHT HERE!
	syfPhoenix:

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by System

Wait, **** this shit. Impromtu Podcast show tomorrow, we go hard out no ******* fluff and call this guy on the show and get the truth!

I can see the headline now:

EXCLUSIVE LIVE WITH SYSTEM - THE CHEAT REVEALD - System talks with Papa Smurf and the 11/10 smurfettes

Quick Comments

VoxMSI.Rogue:

[iM SundeR]

Some people have to realise that players like Mafia and Rossi are putting their own reputations on the line in investigating this so much. It's very confusing to see so many people automatically defending some ridiculous, egotistical chump who has had barely any interaction with this community instead of the people who have been around in this scene for a very, very long time.

What the hell guys?

Quick Comments

	NvJazBas:
	iM MaFia:	some sense in the world finally
	Snx.FigJig:	they must show some disciprine
	TABiggun:
	nGenLight:	The possbility of a "false lynch" can be real scary you know, theres no problem listening to different perspective
	deL:	SundeR brings the ThundeR
	TAriiChard:	^ what mafia said
	ninja brett:
	x5.Revenant:	BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by SundeR

Some people have to realise that players like Mafia and Rossi are putting their own reputations on the line in investigating this so much. It's very confusing to see so many people automatically defending some ridiculous, egotistical chump who has had barely any interaction with this community instead of the people who have been around in this scene for a very, very long time.

What the hell guys?

I disagree with saying why the hell are people disagreeing with Mafia or Rossi, in fact I urge everyone to make up their own mind based of what they are saying, rather than who is saying it.

After all that though, this evidence is pretty damning.

Quick Comments

iM SundeR:

of course - but you could say that mafia and rossi have much more to lose than chobo, its a factor

[Dox]

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	You won't get fooled again!
	inFeZa:	******* lol
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	TCPLemminks:
	[TA]LoSt:	You never cease to me amaze me, good sir
	TASlowHands:	ahahahahahahaaa
	syfChadMann:
	Shieldz:	ROFL
	TABiggun:	LOL THIS WINS THE THREAD
	TAminimat:
	Pox:
	deL:	hahahahahahaha
	NvRossi:	LOVE IT
	neKo:
	TABottles:	ahahahahaaa
	TAriiChard:
	Synizta:

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by BaKaiNu

However, this does not 100% prove that he is a smurf but I am highly leaning that way.

You Tube

You Tube

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

God damn it you people are far too ******* hilarious.

[AxSGRiM]

It's so sad to see that AsG members still try to defend this bullshit cheater... ur awesome Rossi and everyone else who put effort to try and find out the secret behind this scumbag!

Quick Comments

	AsGNabi:	That's not nice, at all. You type of people are thriving on this.
	ToRSpookToR:	******* ironic

[Shieldz]

amazing rossi and mafia appreciate the work u guys did along with others.

[TABiggun]

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.



Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

Quick Comments

	Shieldz:	LOL nice last sentence
	TACeeSerps:	Inception!! BWOAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
	deL:	This was the key point for me!
	inFeZa:	rofl. you should highlight that last sentence
	NvJazBas:	LOL

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.



Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

Very true.

And also adding on to that, you would find NO coaches saying to u, "COPY MY HOTKEY SET UP".

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	i think pig advises people too try his out but his are very basic
	Kepler:	PiG does suggest his hotkey setup, but he doesn't mandate it.
	TABiggun:	Pig's setup is good for any zerg and its the standard, seo's setup is weird and pointless but he uses it coz of bw
	deL:	^ good* coaches (kidding love you pig)
	RicocheT:	Could be possible if you're being coached by like...MKP or something and you want dem hotkeyz
	nGenLight:	Mate, i used to tell my students, copy my hotkeys, its the best, if u dont ur shit.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

HAHAHAHA I never considered this! LOL.

EDIT; for clarity, he was seen on the stream list watching his games against rossi, when we pointed it out, it was apparently his ever elusive 'girlfriend' watching him play... Turns out his girlfriend is himself, another case closed I guess ;o

Quick Comments

	syfMiley:	My girlfriend is myself too
	Kepler:	Just to clarify, he does actually have a girlfriend.
	Peleus:	It could be his GF, his hand was using the keyboard...
	AsGNabi:	Pretty sure I remember what I did Sunday night.. Idiot.

[PiG]

Shame on the few people in this thread and the last who raged/bullied/abused the people like Uhf and others who are trying to be 100% thorough. For the last 2 days I have heard people of that opinion be abused when they were just trying to be thorough and 100% sure. Mean while we had some VERY half-assed evidence of "maphacking" which a some portion of people blindly believed in because two progamers told them it was so.

Because of the chobo drama I watched the catz vod and also saw so many nothing points get brought up that I got very mad. To call catz an authority on sc2 or treat him as such is an absolute joke as we saw multiple times in that vod: http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912

At one point they all make a big deal of move to defend a doom drop and a scan catching it... when 2 minutes later they realise a scouting rax saw the drop coming... ugh

Am I sayin I'm better or understand more than catz or mafia or rossi? Hells no I think I'm just as shit and in the dark as all 3 of them. That's right I said they're shit. Right now I would rate Rossi, Mafia and catz all 3 as more solid progamers then me. But I understand the fact that they still all suck. Broodwar took years and years to develop and understand and sc2 itself has come SO damn far since a year or 6 months ago that to place our current understanding as PLAYERS not analysts or coaches as an authority is just... absolute crap. (What I'm trying to say is we don't know enough about this game to be rash. We absolutely must be 100% careful with something like this).

Now that being said i was something like 75% sure that chobo was VERY suspect. Probably a production tab hack or streamcheating from the games I saw. However the comments saying "why isn't he banned!? how is anyone stupid enough to still defend him" really got to me. I know it was only a few people saying this but goddammit take a chill pill next time this happens and keep it in your pants. You hate hackers? Go hate on the HACKERS not the people trying to make sure they are 100% hacking.

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.

This is the post I've been looking for. Biggun had some great info on the previous thread about only checking for spire in the games the zerg didnt go infestors but it was buried underneath the piles of bullshit.

Can anyone else confirm is the tapping and hotkey ordering etc. show up on this chart? Is it really like a fingerprint (similar not exactly). Because if so this is damning evidence. Just having different setups especially CC on 0 is odd. and very very suspect but not 100% damning unless this is the case.

Ok rant over.

P.S. want to clarify. Mafia had some great points in his vod about helion positioning and intercepting lings. Unfortunately it was buried underneath 80% emotional attempts to find suspicious behaviour in ordinary stuff ... IMO

Quick Comments

	FvRphoneheha:
	VB_Rhuubarb:	Agreed, people shouldn't lower their personal standards just because they think someone else has.
	Peleus:	Agreed, Chobo sorry for calling you a hacker
	Sedz:
	syfPhoenix:
	Kepler:	Absolutely agree. People blew off people like UHF just because Rossi made the initial post.
	Snx.FigJig:
	xGKingdelete:
	Uglymutt:	Thanks for trying to calm everyone down
	Pox:
	Cyanide:
	MrToast:	Was just the usual TA circlejerk routine.
	TAEdgE:	and Toast was bias with the anti-TA ;)
	HuT:
	nirvAnA:
	Dox:	i like ptatoes
	Zealo:

[deL]

Before all of this I was skeptical, I thought at worst he was a hacker who used prod tab hack and had no idea what he was doing, just getting lucky and at best was good but inconsistent due to odd strategies.

However in light of this post I am slowly being swayed. The use of 0 as a hotkey for the orbital is particularly damning for me. It's really a redundant leftover from BW days and players who never played BW competitively should never really use it. Changing your hotkeys TO this setup is very odd as it offers no advantage and is so hard to get accustomed to.

What I would have liked from CHoBo is to get everything out right from the start and construct a proper response that details EVERYTHING instead of waiting for an accusation before explaining it. He could have mentioned that he learned hotkeys from this player and if he said that in an appropriate response post before he was accused of this then this evidence may not be incriminating, but the fact he only addresses things after the fact is really hurting his chances of proving himself innocent. Again if he had explained somehow in a previous post the reasoning for his hotkeys and whatnot this could be mitigated somewhat but as it stands accusations against CHoBo have gone from "coincidental" before this evening, to "suspect".

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	ppl rebind control group 0 to something easier like w
	JoFritzMD:	This is my exact thoughts when I saw the hotkey. He either played alot of BW or a BW smurf is using his account.

[Kepler]

This is seriously concerning. I defended Kice over hacking allegations as they seemed pretty ridiculous, which was shown.

This new evidence is absolutely different, and it concerns me that Kice may have been lying to us (people we know in real life) as well. I've watched Kice play on his stream while he was doing commentary, whether it was 'gm level' is not my field of expertise, but he seemed to be competing at a Masters level.

Conversely we've had Nirvana test out this smurfing possibility. He concluded it was unlikely.

But as it stands I'm just not sure. It's just a video game, but this resulted in money being taken away from someone else. At worst this is an elaborate hoax set up by Kice for some inane reason, or it's simply a matter of coincidence because he's coached by this other guy (which seems highly unlikely based on the very Brood War esque hotkeys).

As much as I hate to do this I should note that on his Facebook he liked a page called "Starcraft 2 Services", as shown here. https://www.facebook.com/StarCraft2Services

Whether he's an actual member of the group, or he's contracted their services is not up for me to come to a conclusion for. I've tried to be impartial while giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whilst the hacking allegations seem less likely, this has much more evidence behind it.

It's so sad to see that AsG members still try to defend this bullshit cheater... ur awesome Rossi and everyone else who put effort to try and find out the secret behind this scumbag!

We defend him against allegations that he was a hacker, which were shown to be pretty false. Rossi's allegations that it's not actually Kice playing are a totally unrelated to him being a hacker or not. This has some of us at a loss for words on how to react, would you defend someone from such voracious attacks like harassment by some TA members and spam bots based on evidence that turned out to be incorrect?

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	great post
	Nadir:	I'm in the same boat bud.
	FvRphoneheha:	Yes, people saying they can't understand anyone understanding Chobo have to see it from the other side
	nirvAnA:
	TAriiChard:
	nGenLight:	I empathize ur sitaution, friend
	NvRossi:	Respect

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Kepler

This is seriously concerning. I defended Kice over hacking allegations as they seemed pretty ridiculous, which was shown.

This new evidence is absolutely different, and it concerns me that Kice may have been lying to us (people we know in real life) as well. I've watched Kice play on his stream while he was doing commentary, whether it was 'gm level' is not my field of expertise, but he seemed to be competing at a Masters level.

Conversely we've had Nirvana test out this smurfing possibility. He concluded it was unlikely.

But as it stands I'm just not sure. It's just a video game, but this resulted in money being taken away from someone else. At worst this is an elaborate hoax set up by Kice for some inane reason, or it's simply a matter of coincidence because he's coached by this other guy (which seems highly unlikely based on the very Brood War esque hotkeys).

As much as I hate to do this I should note that on his Facebook he liked a page called "Starcraft 2 Services", as shown here. https://www.facebook.com/StarCraft2Services

Whether he's an actual member of the group, or he's contracted their services is not up for me to come to a conclusion for. I've tried to be impartial while giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whilst the hacking allegations seem less likely, this has much more evidence behind it.




We defend him against allegations that he was a hacker, which were shown to be pretty false. Rossi's allegations that it's not actually Kice playing are a totally unrelated to him being a hacker or not. This has some of us at a loss for words on how to react, would you defend someone from such voracious attacks like harassment by some TA members and spam bots based on evidence that turned out to be incorrect?

By saying that he is a cheater, I am not implying he has been using hacks, rather he has been breaking ToS by getting others to play on his acc, portrait farming etc. I feel that AsG defending ChoBo previously is a perfectly fine act, however, when I saw that Sedz continued to defend him in the 1st page I find it absolutely ridiculous how he could still defend ChoBo when such damning evidence has been put before us.

Once again, I applaud you for supporting a clan member (when FaDe defended evetS) that's an aspect a good clan/team needs to have but when such evidence is presented I find it ridiculous that you can continue defending Kice.

PS. ChoBo has played multiple Ace games for Last Season's SEACL T3 and I feel that it is unfair to the other teams who have played vs AsG in the last season. However, I'm sure other AsG players + Dox played a 100% legitimate game.. just wondering

Quick Comments

VB_Rhuubarb:

I think it's ironic that you are talking about playing on other's accounts.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by sRGRiM

By saying that he is a cheater, I am not implying he has been using hacks, rather he has been breaking ToS by getting others to play on his acc, portrait farming etc. I feel that AsG defending ChoBo previously is a perfectly fine act, however, when I saw that Sedz continued to defend him in the 1st page I find it absolutely ridiculous how he could still defend ChoBo when such damning evidence has been put before us.

Once again, I applaud you for supporting a clan member (when FaDe defended evetS) that's an aspect a good clan/team needs to have but when such evidence is presented I find it ridiculous that you can continue defending Kice.

PS. ChoBo has played multiple Ace games for Last Season's SEACL T3 and I feel that it is unfair to the other teams who have played vs AsG in the last season. However, I'm sure other AsG players + Dox played a 100% legitimate game.. just wondering

I wasn't continuing to defend him, if you re-read my post I was just making sure that people were 100% correct about this.

You want my honest opinion? Yeah this is pretty damning evidence. And yes, it would be ludicrous and a huge task to go about defending him. To be honest, I just want all of this to be over with, regardless of the outcome, so I can start building my clan's rep back up again and move on.

Also. I know it will probably mean absolutely nothing, but it was him playing in SEACL.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	nirvAnA:
	TAminimat:	i dont think asg has really been hurt by this, thats my opinion anyway
	TABiggun:	Cheer up bud, It's not your fault and you can't stop people from doing stuff like this
	AsGNabi:	This has gone on far too long. There are more important things in life right now..
	TAriiChard:	i think your clan's rep has strengthened rather than weakened

[Dox]

Originally Posted by Sedz

Also. I know it will probably mean absolutely nothing, but it was him playing in SEACL.

I can vouch for this, there was definitely no smurfing in SEACL.

Quick Comments

	Kepler:	Agreed. Kice is at least high masters/gm, but going from that to 3-0'ing Mafia is far too unlikely.
	nirvAnA:	It looks like it was namaa or someone else playing against kowi from those hotkeys

[nGenLight]

I know people are going to be angry and frustrated at people still defending Chobo since the evidence right now is pretty ridiculously condemning. However, I must ensure everyone, we are all on the same page that - JUSTICE, is what we want. Whereas oneside are convinced (I should hope so)by the evidence provided by some amazing and dirty police work here, the other side chooses to see things from another/different perspective to ensure that nothing is missed and we do not by that little chance, lynch an innocent man <- This is perhaps the greatest fear, hence why some people are still pushing for thoroughness. Please be understanding and try to dispell these concerns through logical, strong and pinpoint arguments instead of personal attacks targeted at said person's credibility/skill level/community status. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hearing different perspectives, allowing us to understand and investigate the situation more thoroughly than just following the strong choice words of a few (who I obviously agree with). Think and investigate for yourself, it should be easy, the hardworks already been done by some legends of this community.

We are all of the same jury. However that said, if you can't see how shady this Chobo character is by now - I probably won't want you on my jury team.

I vote him lynched, the evidence are all pointing towards him using third party programs (portrait farming, potentially hacks), and shifty activities such as getting others to play on his account, tournament or not.

I'm not entirely convinced that he hacks, because I haven't spent that much time looking at them replays myself. But having others play on his account, GTFO son.

Quick Comments

	mGGDaedalus:
	TAEdgE:
	Uglymutt:	Certainly shady, thoroughness is the key
	FvRphoneheha:	Definitely don't want to see an innocent man lynched.
	iM MaFia:	Very good post
	nirvAnA:	really liked the first paragraph
	Asrathiel:
	ToRSpartaz:	Agreed with Light here.