[EveMassacrisM]

I consider Terran flying their shit off, landing CCs and making PFs then massing Barracks at a random location after his main getting roflstomped bm. Hell, I would totally call out their moms' sexuality and verbally abuse them afterwards.

[DeekZ]

The thing about BM is that it doesn't matter at all, if you get raged at and insulted you should just feel good, I know when someone calls me trash and insults the race I play I just laugh and ask them if they're mad and when I insult someone on ladder after I've lost its just a mini release of anger, which helps me going in to my next game. I don't BM in clan games or friendly customs.. you'd have to be a pretty huge douche to insult a clan mate, at least in a non-joking around way.

Honestly I think 'e-sports' would be better off if people just forgot about the term "BM" and didn't care about it, as we all know from watching players like IdrA and Destiny trash talking just makes everything more entertaining and in other sports trash talking is a great thing.

It's a real stretch to call some of the things in this thread BM, like not killing your opponent just because you're way ahead, not saying glhf and not gg'ing isn't BM, at least on ladder and "brushing aside your win/loss" is definitely not BM lol, at least not in the way I'm picturing it.

[UncleTom]

Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by UncleTom

Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.

Is this your excuse for all your BM? That everyone else needs to toughen up and just take it?

As for what actually constitutes BM... I would agree with Bjornbrandr, BM is bad manners, which includes things like no 'glhf' or 'gg'. It's a sign that you actually respect the other player. Sure, it might suck when you get all-ined and lose, but they still played better than you, it was a game and they were good at it, so why no 'gg'?

As for the holding on for too long, sure, it may be obvious from the winners side that they are massively ahead, but from the losers side it can be harder to tell. They generally don't have enough information to make the call. I know I've extended games 20 minutes longer than I probably should have simply because it was still fairly even. The opponent was winning all the way, but if they slipped up, or I got lucky, I could snag the win. Doesn't happen often, but it's always worth a shot.

[UncleTom]

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

Is this your excuse for all your BM? That everyone else needs to toughen up and just take it?

I'm not BM, I always say gl hf or gg even if the other person is being less then delightful. If I'm talking in chat channel, obviously it is different but you probably assume tone and context of the things I say and label it as trolling(different from BM in my opinion), which is the trouble of the internet. I'm sure it is common sense that everyone is different and defining and discussing such a broad subject should always be meet with a little common sense.

Quick Comments

Bugalugs McScruffin:

I gotta say that's one of the most reasonable posts in this thread. :)

[EveVendetta]

I GG every single game, even when I'm pissed off after a match. I feel that losing to cheese or proxy gates is only the result of my own carelessness, and I also get damn frustrated after consecutive losses.

But I also know that every game I lose is cos of my own mistakes/opponent played better than me, so I force myself to think about how I could have won that match instead of ' 1-1-1 is imba, Z and T are imba'

To people who really BM (e.g. insult after game) i basically just lose respect for them but yeah I don't consider not GG-ing / manner mules BM at all.

Quick Comments

	EveJeonSa:	repp
	neon:	agree
	FaDeBadger:

[ProAnnn]

I GG most of my games. Sometimes i will not gg if i feel that i screw very very badly. Like when i lose focus and lost purely because i forgot my 1st zealot in PvZ(how does that happens) or i get my entire army surrounded by lings without knowing it(its damn retarded).

I normally manner nexus if my opponent float his buildings or refuse to leave after losing all his workers or something.

[MeaNySPR]

i bm every protoss player that all ins. otherwise i always gg out of my game.

[Imperial]

Lol @ bm in sc2, "sweet mother of god he didnt say gg (without actually meaning it) after a defeat HOLY ******* SHIT", really this is small stuff and i find it funny when people scream 'bm'. I always gg because it makes me feel calmer after my dreams are crushed, although i usually get the same in return i dont care if someone doesnt gg or doesnt acknowledge my 'glhf', everyone is so mannered in sc2 that abusive behaviour is almost non-existant and i think some people are paying far too much attention to minor things like a casual "**** you" or "<insert insult regarding strategy used by you here>"

[Frogmite]

Warning, i write this post after having a bit too much of alcohol

Actually i believe that SC2 is a game very difficult, because it's 1v1 stuff, so when you lose it's because you're weaker. It's not because your team work is not good or anything like that. Starcraft 2 involves players at 100%, that's why you SC2 is a bit elititst. It's not easy to put yourself in the line when you play video games.

Games like FPS or AOS games are very popular these days, because it's team games. Team games are easier, you don't put your own pride in the front row. So you lose because your team is weaker, not because you are. Easier to assume as a player.

SC2 it's Man(or Woman) stuff, you're alone, and that makes the beauty of this game.

So i understand that today there is a lot of bad mannered players, nobody likes to lose, and being behind a screen gives wings to some of the players in terms of bad manners.

So yeah, there will always be a lot of bad mannered players, but if you're a Man, you won't care what they ******* try to say/do, because you know that you love this game and what you're doing is right.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Warning, i write this post after having a bit too much of alcohol

Actually i believe that SC2 is a game very difficult, because it's 1v1 stuff, so when you lose it's because you're weaker. It's not because your team work is not good or anything like that. Starcraft 2 involves players at 100%, that's why you SC2 is a bit elititst. It's not easy to put yourself in the line when you play video games.

Games like FPS or AOS games are very popular these days, because it's team games. Team games are easier, you don't put your own pride in the front row. So you lose because your team is weaker, not because you are. Easier to assume as a player.

SC2 it's Man(or Woman) stuff, you're alone, and that makes the beauty of this game.

So i understand that today there is a lot of bad mannered players, nobody likes to lose, and being behind a screen gives wings to some of the players in terms of bad manners.

So yeah, there will always be a lot of bad mannered players, but if you're a Man, you won't care what they ******* try to say/do, because you know that you love this game and what you're doing is right.

That's what I love about sc2, you win and your opponent can't just be like, "my team sucks, blah blah" they have to look at themselves and figure out how to get better. Makes for a much nicer community imo. Granted they can still blame it on imbalance but you can do that in some other games too (DotA comes to mind).

[Starcyph3r]

Tbh I actually enjoy receiving bm. I think its one of the great joys of playing starcraft. The more bm they get the more satisfying the win. The bmer is reduced to an infant, throwing a tantrum verbally, unable to accept your superiority, while you the victor simply sit back in your chair and laugh as your 'op' deatball tears through the fruits of his labour. That said, I too am also a bmer at times :P

[cruxBsK]

got BM'ed by Danny the other day when I fkn owned him. true story.

[Volition]

In the past i have been a pretty bad BM'r. Thinking on it now, i felt like i was much better than the player, and that they had done some dirty strat to beat me that took less skill than the manner in which i was playing. Oh how naive - I am better now, but i understand the people that occasionally are so frustrated that leave without a gg (which i dont think is bm at all, there is no rulebook that says you have to gg every game).

My personal fun, which i think makes me a bad man, is that when i get BM'd i continue the discussion after the game. I know the rage they are feeling, so egging them on with a few choice comments seems alright. In their own time, the BM'r will understand they arent better than everyone, and they are acting like a wanker. But it only comes when you consider your own BM in your past.

For example, i had a game this morning, a TvZ. i did a bit of fake bunker pressure to force lings, into dopuble reactor hellion expand. the guy went mental, cut drones at 25, and tried to roach ling me twice or three times. i got the hellions and Thors up, got to about 180 supply, grabbed 10 scvs to repair and went for the push back. after it works, he starts telling me "ALL IN SO CHEAP" and that "THATS NOT SKILL TERRAN OP UR BAD". I feel it was my moral resposibility to keep him going after the game. How can you just no egg him on and feed the rage?

does that make me a bad man?

[TABjornbrandr]

One thing that people aren't taking into account is the actual definition of manners.
A lot of people above are writing that people are too sensitive about what they define as BM, so on and so forth, but if you literally see BM as being bad manners, then not saying "hfgl" could easily be construed as bad mannered, just as not shaking hands with your opponent in a football match, etc., most certainly is. Whether or not it is arrogant or offensive in Starcraft 2 is another matter given that it is over the internet and as such a lot less personal.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Bjornbrandr

One thing that people aren't taking into account is the actual definition of manners.
A lot of people above are writing that people are too sensitive about what they define as BM, so on and so forth, but if you literally see BM as being bad manners, then not saying "hfgl" could easily be construed as bad mannered, just as not shaking hands with your opponent in a football match, etc., most certainly is. Whether or not it is arrogant or offensive in Starcraft 2 is another matter given that it is over the internet and as such a lot less personal.

By that same token I can refute everything you just said by having a different definition of bm. This is exactly why people don't agree on things like no gg or no glhf as being bm or not.

90% of my games I don't gl hf because it's simply not true, I don't want them to be lucky or have fun. I'm playing the game for me and solely for me. If I win, or lose but still think it's a good game, I will gg (note: I don't mean offensive gg I mean in response to theirs). But I'm not going to throw out a meaningless pleasantry just because it might be seen as rude if I don't.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

But I'm not going to throw out a meaningless pleasantry just because it might be seen as rude if I don't.

>.< How old are you Badger? The point is to not look rude, the point is to show respect to your opponent.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

>.< How old are you Badger? The point is to not look rude, the point is to show respect to your opponent.

Not that it makes any difference to the conversation but I'm 23. Why should I 'show' respect to some random scrub on the ladder when in actual fact I probably have none. I don't care if they think I'm the rudest person they've ever played against, good for them.

For the record, I don't say please or thank you in real life unless I mean it, why should Starcraft be any different?

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Not that it makes any difference to the conversation but I'm 23. Why should I 'show' respect to some random scrub on the ladder when in actual fact I probably have none. I don't care if they think I'm the rudest person they've ever played against, good for them.

For the record, I don't say please or thank you in real life unless I mean it, why should Starcraft be any different?

I agree that you shouldn't say please or thank you if you don't mean it. I'd suggest that you might need to mean it more often than you do. But whatever, each to their own.

As to the age comment, I would expect at by about mid-twenties people would start to learn a bit of respect for people in general. Unfortunately that age is up from mid-teens 10 years ago. :/

Quick Comments

krycek:

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Not that it makes any difference to the conversation but I'm 23. Why should I 'show' respect to some random scrub on the ladder when in actual fact I probably have none. I don't care if they think I'm the rudest person they've ever played against, good for them.

For the record, I don't say please or thank you in real life unless I mean it, why should Starcraft be any different?

I see it as 'shaking hands' before a game.
GG to me is just admitting defeat to the better player on the day.

It doesn't bother me, but it isn't nice to snub people.
(not you personally, just in general)

Quick Comments

Bugalugs McScruffin:

ZergGirl gets being mannered. :)