[dannnyds]

guess all that's left to do is practice . thanks again all for the feedback

[ZanC]

Originally Posted by Daboo

Can you really afford to build a tech lab on a factory, research blue flames, and then produce hellions? That takes a long time, or are you better off building 2 more raxes and getting more upgrades for your bio army, and microing your army around? and then add ghosts for emp? Changing tech is tough unless your ahead by a bit.

Remember it's not about plain what effectively counters what, it's about what fits better with your overall game plan, and the state you are in the game. This is why most analysis discussions are done with a replay, to see what you could've done given the situation you were in.

Stalker > Hellion, all Terran air

Seriously, face-down the only practical way to go beating zealot/gateway units is bio/MMM in my opinion. I would do MMM even against a pure zealot army (AND feel safe because I know protoss invested a lot on useless units I already countered).

Good luck dannnyds. Don't take my word for it though, try both bio and mech style for yourself.

[Nobunaga]

If you don't micro your bio ball, the chargelots will eat you for breakfast.

I'd say that banshees are pretty good in the matchup if they don't do the MC phoenix, as long as you keep them around after your early pressure, you have some extra dps. Basically what Jinro did in the GSL.

[dannnyds]

Well the skill level involved with that i posted would be gold at best so micro is not too much of a concern (also my micro is better than my macro).

[Halstrom]

In my humble BSG opinion, the unit counter discussion isn't the most optimal one. To me I'd be asking why Protoss has chargelots. Yes they do damage, but in a death ball they also 1/. open up a buffer to allow stalkers/collosi to attack safely, 2/. tank the bio-ball to shape them and prevent them advancing. The Protoss death ball efficiency often comes from the this combo, not just one unit within it.

Looking at this ball, killing zealots only allows access to the back line, but vikings also kill collosi. A marine drop to kill a twighlight council before (or during) leg speed training will delay a Protoss push (see NASL finals MC vs PuMa). When you're against chargelots during a drop, all you have to do is pick up your units again.

Also, consider in your testing, the effect that sentry guardian shield has if it covers the zealots. Zealots do a LOT better shielded.

Lastly, hellions are yummy if you send them within range of my stalkers Zealots rarely operate alone.

[AxSGRiM]

Put in 4 hellions and get more marauders for kiting.

[NobleSix]

I usually go early 2 gas to go chargelots. It seems to work very well against terran All i can say as a protoss is i usually go 1 gate then tech to twilight council so if u scout 1 gate and two gas early on, it would be a safe move to get bunkers. As for army composition, im not to sure but stim marauders with concussive shells are a problem for me

[dannnyds]

I'm starting to use marauders more (with shells) and they are actually rather nice.

[TAriiChard]

Scan ahead. emp. emp. emp. stim in and engage. if he runs you kite forwards and if he engages you, you kite backwards.

[Xavi]

ghosts - emp for shields, extra damage vs light (maurder equiv for light armoured units) snipe great ability for taking out single targets

marines - strong in numbers, + with the combination of kiting away form them (stim + shields) can be added in combination with gas units eg tanks ghosts

hellions - line damage, extra damage vs light, fastest ground unit (which is great for kiting), blue flame upgrade more damage to light cost effective make no gas required

you can pick your units and use them in combination with other units
for example, u have 4 rax's 3 with reactors 1 with tech lab, get upgrades on tech lab and make ghosts out of that one, and rines from the reactors

if u feel the rines are pointless because the absence of toss air or the abundantness
of colossus for example if you want can make more use of the hellions because there more dynamic in there movement and have abit more hp

in summary, the use of micro ß in relative to the choice of unit is how u fight off chargelots


basic micro
- kiting backwards (attack then move backwards while you attack speed ticks over (0.86 or something for rines without stim)
- luring through chokes (great for hellions) or and basic using of map terrain to your advantage
- finding the correct time to emp and or snipe (while the chargelots are bunched in a group etc)

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for the comprehensive analysis !