[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by EyeSeeEm

Hi guys, I'm a plat Zerg and need help vs a cheesy Toss.

ZvP - Plat v high Diamond
http://drop.sc/168965

He opens 2 gate which I scout normally, but I react terribly and end up losing my expansion (and also way behind in workers). Could someone explain what my mindset should be when I scout 2gate and what the standard response is?

I then proceed flustered and forget to scout his tech at a normal timing and get steamrolled by Void Rays (beta anyone?).

not 100% sure as I play toss not zerg, but I think you should have at least tried to get your natural hatchery down at the normal time (your drone just turned around and went back home).

I don't know the proper response to this, but it's not roaches (since you have to cut so many drones to get them). I think you just have to put the hatchery down and make as many lings as possible. If you didn't take the gas geyser or make the spine crawlers, you would have had enough lings to take down the three zealots before the cannons got up (with the queen helping out)

Don't worry about the void rays, you probably would have held that off fine in a normal game, but in this game you were so far behind that no matter what he did, he would have won.


I think your mindset should be something like "he's investing a lot of resources into this attack and delaying his economy and tech by doing this. I just need to hold it off and I'll have plenty of time to drone up afterwards."

Quick Comments

	EyeSeeEm:
	mGGAequitas:

[EyeSeeEm]

Originally Posted by delete12

not 100% sure as I play toss not zerg, but I think you should have at least tried to get your natural hatchery down at the normal time (your drone just turned around and went back home).

I turned around because I saw his probe blocking the hatch. A good toss would block it until lings pop, right?

Originally Posted by delete12

I think you just have to put the hatchery down and make as many lings as possible. If you didn't take the gas geyser or make the spine crawlers, you would have had enough lings to take down the three zealots before the cannons got up (with the queen helping out)

Yeah, against the Zealot/Cannon rush, that will work. But what if he keeps pumping Zealots? Then I'm stuck on slow lings and no gas.

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by EyeSeeEm

I turned around because I saw his probe blocking the hatch. A good toss would block it until lings pop, right?


Yeah, against the Zealot/Cannon rush, that will work. But what if he keeps pumping Zealots? Then I'm stuck on slow lings and no gas.

You should always just attack the probe (micro a bit to get extra hits off if he runs around in circles). Worst case scenario, you force him to make a pylon. If you're actively microing the drone, sometimes you can get the hatch down (even if he's microing the probe). I play at a level, and I always make a pylon to block since my zerg opponents manage to get the hatchery down even while I'm microing the probe.

This is all theorycraft now, but if he kept on pumping zealots you would be fine since they have to walk across the map one at a time. Unless you let him stockpile up 7 zealots or something, you should be able to have enough to get a surround. If those two gateways were proxied, then roaches/spine might be a good idea, since you get 2 gateways and a pylon once you hold it off, and he won't have a forge to secure his expansion.

I still think mass ling is the way to go (unless he proxies the gateways). Roaches take too long to get, and hurt your economy too much. You're pretty much forced to do a counter-all-in if you get them, which doesn't work since he gets a forge behind it.

Zealots are slow. Even if you don't have enough lings to kill him, you can just attack the zealots every time they attack the hatchery, and pull back when they try to fight back. If they chase the lings, you can just run around forever. You can pump out lings faster than he can pump out zealots (especially since they have to walk across the map to your base). So as long as you buy time like this, you'll be able to save the hatchery and hold it off.

That's what I think at least, once again, all theorycraft.

Quick Comments

	EyeSeeEm:	Great explanation, thanks!
	mGGAequitas: